Day 085 - 08 Feb 95 - Page 54
1 40 to 44 seconds previously, it was not always reaching the
2 required temperature of 70 degrees?
3 A. On occasions that may happen. That is the whole point
4 of checks, to pick those up and do something about it.
5
6 Q. That was the reason for the change-over?
7
8 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Do you know offhand what the internal
9 temperature was considered to be safe?
10 A. 70 degrees is the internal temperature of meat that we
11 consider to be safe. It always has been.
12
13 Q. Does that mean that anything less than that is unsafe?
14 A. No.
15
16 Q. This is why I am asking. It might have been decided that
17 an internal temperature of 60 degrees was for all intents
18 and purposes safe, but you then add on an extra margin of
19 safety?
20 A. We have the extra margin of safety within there. 70
21 degrees centigrade is our standard. I believe that
22 salmonella bacteria will be killed at much lower
23 temperatures than that. They are exposed to
24 temperatures ----
25
26 Q. That is what I am asking. It seems to be assumed that
27 because 70 degrees is your standard, the word "safe" has
28 been used by you as well as Ms. Steel, that if the standard
29 is 70 degrees anything below that is not safe. What I want
30 to know is whether that is so or not?
31 A. It is not so, no. The food can still be safe even if
32 the temperature of 70 degrees centigrade is not achieved.
33 That is our parameter we took which gives us a good safety
34 margin.
35
36 MS. STEEL: It can be safe, but it would not necessarily be
37 otherwise? You feel you could not guarantee its safety
38 unless it did reach 70?
39 A. We could guarantee its safety as long as the pathogenic
40 bacteria had been killed and they would be killed at a much
41 lower temperature than 70 degrees centigrade. They would
42 have been exposed to that temperature for a period of time.
43
44 Q. Is there some kind of food safety guideline that gives the
45 temperature of 70 degrees?
46 A. In McDonald's?
47
48 Q. In general.
49 A. I do not think there is. There is a guideline
50 generally that between, I think, 5 degrees and 63 degrees
51 the bacteria can survive or that is the temperature at
52 which they would multiply, but I am not microbiologist.
53
54 MR. MORRIS: If you look at the statement of Dr. Clark ----
55
56 MR. RAMPTON: No, I am sorry, my Lord, you cannot do that.
57
58 MR. MORRIS: I can do that. I can refer him to a page in the
59 statement.
60
