Day 193 - 28 Nov 95 - Page 15


     
     1        as though they will be victimised; so they are afraid of
     2        losing their jobs; and I promised those people that I would
     3        never release their names.
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  But what do you say they told you?
     6        A.  Exactly what it says during this paragraph, that
     7        somehow Cam knew who had signed the cards -- which is
     8        totally illegal in the province of Ontario -- and that if
     9        they did not come in and sign against the union, then they
    10        were indirectly -----
    11
    12   Q.   It is not totally illegal, is it?  You said this
    13        yesterday.  He cannot go round asking, but if someone
    14        chooses to tell him, there is nothing illegal about that?
    15        A.  Choosing to tell him; but he is never allowed to see
    16        the cards at the Labour Board; only the Labour Board
    17        officials -----
    18
    19   Q.   Yes, I understand that.  But on an occasion yesterday you
    20        said it was illegal, when all that Mr. Rampton was putting
    21        were names of people he got to know of.  One knows tht
    22        there are various ways you can get to hear of things.  Are
    23        you -----
    24
    25   MS. STEEL:   I do not think that is exactly what she said.  I am
    26        not trying to be awkward, but I think it was a bit more
    27        complex than that.  I think it was that they were not
    28        allowed to demand the names.
    29
    30   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What the witness has said is: "Somehow Cam
    31        knew who had signed, which is totally illegal"; and that is
    32        what I am following up.
    33
    34   THE WITNESS:   No.  I believe Cam cannot ask who has signed the
    35        union; he cannot ask an employee whether they have signed.
    36
    37   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Yes, I understand that.  But that is what
    38        you meant when you said: "Somehow he knew, which is totally
    39        illegal", is it?
    40        A.  I do not know what you are getting at here.
    41
    42   MR. RAMPTON:  I want to ask you -----
    43
    44   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Let me just ask -- I am sorry, Mr. Rampton --
    45        in case it is important.  Caseview may not be totally
    46        accurate, but, you see, what it says in this paragraph
    47        is: "Somehow Cam knew who had signed the cards which is
    48        totally illegal"; and I am asking you why you say it is
    49        totally illegal.  I understand that if he had asked or
    50        someone had asked on asked on his behalf, I understand the 
    51        illegality of that.  But if people had volunteered, if one 
    52        crew member had gone and told Cam or a member of his 
    53        management: "I have signed, and X, Y and Z have signed as
    54        well" ---
    55        A.  That is right.
    56
    57   Q.   -- that is not illegal?
    58        A.  No, that is not.
    59
    60   MR. RAMPTON:  Can you turn back to the first page of your

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