Day 096 - 03 Mar 95 - Page 21


     
     1
     2   Q.   I understand that, but I do not know what more evidence is
     3        to come, you see.  Is the repetitive tapping of a bar with
     4        one trotter behaviour which might not be untypical in a dry
     5        sow stall or not?
     6        A.  No, I have not been into a dry stall house ever in my
     7        life and seen all the sows tapping away with their front
     8        foot doing it all the time, by any means.  Quite obviously,
     9        some do occasionally.
    10
    11   MS. STEEL:  Would those dry sow stalls shown be typical of the
    12        dry sow stalls that are used by some of your suppliers?
    13        A.  Have been in the past, but we have just currently done
    14        a survey since I was here last, and there is only about 12
    15        per cent of our producers who have still got some stalls
    16        left.  They have not got 100 per cent stalls at all.  It is
    17        very, very quickly being changed.  One of our major
    18        customers by the end of year will be saying that all their
    19        pig meat is stall and tether free.
    20
    21   Q.   So they could be typical of the ones that are used now as
    22        well, but you are saying that only a small percentage are
    23        used?
    24        A.  Yes.
    25
    26   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  If we went back to 1988, which would be about
    27        seven years ago now, what sort of percentage then?
    28        A.  That is a difficult question, sir, and I am only
    29        guessing.  I would have thought 30 or 40 per cent in the
    30        country or 50 per cent.  I am really guessing.  That is
    31        very difficult.  I mean, we have always been in pig
    32        keeping; we have not, you know, gone out to buy those
    33        specifically, I can assure you.
    34
    35   MR. MORRIS:  Can I just say that on the transcript it says that
    36        they were banned in 1989.  That is what it says on the
    37        transcript.  It will be banned in 1999?
    38        A.  Yes, will be banned in 1999.
    39
    40   Q.   All the suppliers know that, do they not?
    41        A.  Oh, yes.
    42
    43   MS. STEEL:  It is illegal to install new dry sow stalls, is it
    44        not?
    45        A.  In the UK, I would not think anyone would be stupid
    46        enough to even consider it.
    47
    48   MR. MORRIS:  When you said you have a customer who is now making
    49        a specification of no pig meat to come from any supplier
    50        that has those stalls, yes, you have said; that is not 
    51        McDonald's, though? 
    52        A.  I would say that any reasonable customer; there has 
    53        been tremendous pressure put on -----
    54
    55   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause a moment, Mr. Bowes.  The question
    56        relates specifically to an answer that you gave about half
    57        a dozen answers ago that one of your customers was about to
    58        say "nothing from dry sow stalls".  Do you remember saying
    59        something to that effect?
    60        A.  Nothing from dry sow -- yes, I did say that earlier,

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