Day 083 - 06 Feb 95 - Page 35
1
2 My Lord, if the Defendants are to raise an issue in this
3 case as to the generality of the sources of beef in Brazil
4 for the Plaintiffs' use, whether via Braslo or anyone else,
5 then they have to do it by positive averment on proper
6 grounds, what the Court of Appeal called reasonable grounds
7 for believing that it is so. That they do not offer
8 because they cannot offer.
9
10 What your Lordship has called an issue -- I say this
11 respectfully but with emphatic disagreement -- is not an
12 issue at all; it is a wishful speculation on the part of
13 the Defendants.
14
15 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Let us suppose you were right about evidence
16 of Brazilian beef from rainforest or recently ex-rainforest
17 land. Can I completely discard at this stage the argument
18 that if any beef is taken from Brazil it has a carry-on
19 effect which, arguably, puts pressure on the rainforest?
20 At the end of the day I might think nothing of that
21 argument, but can I ask discard it out of hand now?
22
23 MR. RAMPTON: Any beef taken from Brazil?
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25 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, even just 80 tonnes and then, you see,
26 if there were more than 80 tonnes -- I mean, if the truth
27 is that your instructions, and you do not have to say yea
28 or nay, but if truth is that your instructions are that
29 there has been no other Brazilian beef, I do not why you
30 just cannot say so and say there is nothing to discover
31 anyway.
32
33 MR. RAMPTON: But suppose that were not right, suppose it were
34 the case that over a period of years -- I do not know that
35 this is so and I do not know that it is not, I have not
36 looked and I would not look unless ordered to do so --
37 suppose it were the case that over the last 20 or 30 years
38 the people in Brazil who supply McDonald's in Brazil and
39 supplied the 80 tonnes -- no, not those people, Braslo, let
40 us say; people in Brazil who supply McDonald's in Brazil
41 which is Braslo, and has been for sometime, I understand,
42 had also been supplying, let us say, beef to the Pacific
43 rim countries who do not have any beef their own, let us
44 suppose that was so, in varying quantities over a period of
45 years. Is it really right -- I ask this question -- that
46 the court will exercise its discretion before the fair
47 disposal of the case and the saving of costs to order
48 McDonald's in Brazil, which is the only place where there
49 is such documentation to be found although, I suppose, it
50 might be found in Japan or Hong Kong or Singapore, or
51 wherever, Indonesia, to discover documents such as
52 Mr. Walker was able to find, supposing those documents were
53 in the possession of McDonald's rather than their
54 suppliers, documents relating to such suppliers over, let
55 us say, a period of 20 or 30 years -----
56
57 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I am sorry to interrupt you, but it is so
58 I can understand the argument. I understand that you may
59 have an argument to that effect when we come to production
60 for inspection, but this is why I raise the Merrett case
