Day 085 - 08 Feb 95 - Page 54


     
     1        40 to 44 seconds previously, it was not always reaching the
     2        required temperature of 70 degrees?
     3        A.  On occasions that may happen.  That is the whole point
     4        of checks, to pick those up and do something about it.
     5
     6   Q.   That was the reason for the change-over?
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do you know offhand what the internal
     9        temperature was considered to be safe?
    10        A.  70 degrees is the internal temperature of meat that we
    11        consider to be safe.  It always has been.
    12
    13   Q.   Does that mean that anything less than that is unsafe?
    14        A.  No.
    15
    16   Q.   This is why I am asking.  It might have been decided that
    17        an internal temperature of 60 degrees was for all intents
    18        and purposes safe, but you then add on an extra margin of
    19        safety?
    20        A.  We have the extra margin of safety within there.  70
    21        degrees centigrade is our standard.  I believe that
    22        salmonella bacteria will be killed at much lower
    23        temperatures than that.  They are exposed to
    24        temperatures ----
    25
    26   Q.   That is what I am asking.  It seems to be assumed that
    27        because 70 degrees is your standard, the word "safe" has
    28        been used by you as well as Ms. Steel, that if the standard
    29        is 70 degrees anything below that is not safe.  What I want
    30        to know is whether that is so or not?
    31        A.  It is not so, no.  The food can still be safe even if
    32        the temperature of 70 degrees centigrade is not achieved.
    33        That is our parameter we took which gives us a good safety
    34        margin.
    35
    36   MS. STEEL:  It can be safe, but it would not necessarily be
    37        otherwise?  You feel you could not guarantee its safety
    38        unless it did reach 70?
    39        A.  We could guarantee its safety as long as the pathogenic
    40        bacteria had been killed and they would be killed at a much
    41        lower temperature than 70 degrees centigrade.  They would
    42        have been exposed to that temperature for a period of time.
    43
    44   Q.   Is there some kind of food safety guideline that gives the
    45        temperature of 70 degrees?
    46        A.  In McDonald's?
    47
    48   Q.   In general.
    49        A.  I do not think there is.  There is a guideline
    50        generally that between, I think, 5 degrees and 63 degrees 
    51        the bacteria can survive or that is the temperature at 
    52        which they would multiply, but I am not microbiologist. 
    53
    54   MR. MORRIS:  If you look at the statement of Dr. Clark ----
    55
    56   MR. RAMPTON:  No, I am sorry, my Lord, you cannot do that.
    57
    58   MR. MORRIS:  I can do that.  I can refer him to a page in the
    59        statement.
    60

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