Day 286 - 24 Oct 96 - Page 19


     
     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Well, maybe, but if you fence any part of it
     2        or run cattle on any part of it are you displacing the
     3        people by doing that?
     4
     5   MR. MORRIS:   I would say you were, because it would take on the
     6        character of, even though it would not necessarily be a
     7        dominating invasion, it is an invasive type of involvement
     8        on that land because of the character of    the cattle
     9        ranching industry.  But what has actually happened, I think
    10        in reality what has happened is that it has not been that
    11        there are a few cattle ranchers on otherwise, you know,
    12        natural forest and vegetation belonging to indigenous
    13        peoples; what has actually happened is that it is the
    14        opposite.  There is complete colonisation where the
    15        indigenous peoples have been forced into tiny reserves
    16        where they are unable to maintain their culture or their
    17        livelihood.  So in some ways it may be a kind of academic
    18        argument about whether....  Do you see what I mean?
    19
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, I understand.  Yes, what were you going
    21        on to next, then?
    22
    23   MR. MORRIS:   I am just having a quick look through notes about
    24        Fiona Watson's evidence, just in case Mr. Rampton....  She
    25        is clearly an expert on indigenous peoples and their
    26        culture and what is undermining such culture.  She is
    27        working for Survival International in that capacity.
    28        Mr. Rampton may want to bring up the fact that the body
    29        that is entrusted with monitoring the dispossession and
    30        damage to indigenous cultures in Mato Grosso do Sul, which
    31        we provide evidence of, which he says in his submissions
    32        anyway, I believe is admissible hearsay even without a
    33        witness, if it is an authorised authoritative body doing
    34        that kind of research.
    35
    36        But, in any event, as we have heard from Fiona Watson, that
    37        is very authoritative information, but there seems to have
    38        been one misprint in the entire document which he could
    39        identify with a number clearly out of place in one place.
    40        And if he wants to therefore discredit the entire
    41        organisation, which I think Fiona Watson recognises is the
    42        most authoritative body working on this subject in Brazil,
    43        I think that would be absurd to the point of irrelevance.
    44
    45        Obviously one misprint in a document does not invalidate
    46        the whole document and the whole picture is what we are
    47        concerned with.  If we had just been concerned with that
    48        one particular place, we understand if she was relying on
    49        information then that might be open to question, but we are
    50        talking about a whole process over a whole region with a 
    51        whole body of information provided by the most 
    52        authoritative body charged with that responsibility. 
    53
    54        Now, I just want to have a quick look if I have got any
    55        more on Brazil, apart from ----
    56
    57   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just sit down.  Apart from?
    58
    59   MR. MORRIS:   Apart from the soya issue, which I might bring up
    60        as a specific point.  (Pause) I think I have largely

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