Day 207 - 23 Jan 96 - Page 27


     
     1        as to when it is to be taken; and I have not lost sight of
     2        the fact that there may be provisions as to other breaks,
     3        quite apart from the main ones.
     4
     5   MR. MORRIS:  Can I also say that it will be our case that breaks
     6        should be paid for, but in fact that is the -----
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You have made that point.
     9
    10   MR. MORRIS:  And not paying for breaks is only encouraging
    11        people to collaborate in not getting their rights, by not
    12        paying them for those breaks.
    13
    14   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Argue that to me at the end of the day.
    15
    16   MR. MORRIS:  Right.
    17
    18   MS. STEEL:  (To the witness) To go back to where we were before
    19        we started looking at these documents:  you would accept
    20        now, would you, that it was not just one or two people who
    21        were affected by this problem and complained about it at
    22        rap sessions, that it was widespread and it went on for
    23        several years?
    24        A.  There are people obviously within this document, as you
    25        just stated, who have breaks -- which I think it is yet to
    26        be decided whether they are illegal or not -- but I never
    27        saw Managers force people to take breaks of that length or
    28        had complaints to me on that matter.
    29
    30   Q.   Did you ever see Managers saying to people: "Do not go for
    31        your break yet because, legally, you are not supposed to go
    32        until between 11.30 and 2.30"?
    33        A.  No.
    34
    35   Q.   Or: "Do not come back off your break yet, because you have
    36        not had your legal entitlement of 45 minutes"?
    37        A.  No.
    38
    39   MR. MORRIS:  Can I just say, if it helps the court, that that
    40        page was one that was -- the pages we looked at are not
    41        unique in the documents.
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What might help me at the end of the day is
    44        if you are able to say that, if one looks at such and such
    45        a day, there are X number of crew who are on duty from some
    46        time in the morning until some time in the late afternoon;
    47        and then you can tell me how many of them had their breaks
    48        within the first two hours of their shifts and how many had
    49        less than 45 minutes breaks, and things of that kind; and
    50        then you can tell me whether they are Saturdays or whether 
    51        they are other days as well; in other words, the stepping 
    52        stones which you might say that it is endemic in McDonald's 
    53        to send people on early breaks and possibly shorter than 45
    54        minutes on Saturdays, because the one thing which is
    55        sacrosanct is getting in as much cash as one possibly can
    56        during the very busy lunchtime period.
    57
    58        So you just work out what your stepping stones are, if that
    59        is the sort of thing you are going to argue, and then be
    60        prepared to say what your position is with regard to other

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