Day 130 - 26 May 95 - Page 54


     
     1        A.  Just to explain, Andrew worked for the Accident
     2        Prevention Advisory Unit of HSE.  That particular unit was
     3        just interested in working with national companies from
     4        this, like, corporate standpoint, so it would save each
     5        individual Environmental Health Officer going to them.  So,
     6        no, the rest of the catering industry did not come up in
     7        the conversation.  I suppose there would be a limited
     8        number of other organisations large enough for them to be
     9        interested in the catering industry, certainly none of our
    10        competitors in the take-away sector.
    11
    12   Q.   Was he concerned that the take-away catering sector --
    13        I think that is the word you used -- in his report, that
    14        there these kinds of accidents that happen at McDonald's,
    15        it was something that applied to the whole sector, there
    16        was concern about the level of certain kinds of accidents
    17        and safety in general?
    18        A.  No, he did not mention any specific type of accidents
    19        at all.  It was, yes, as I said previously, some
    20        Environmental Health Officers had approached him about
    21        specific accidents.  The specific accidents were never
    22        disclosed to us, so I do not know which ones.
    23
    24   Q.   Not just for McDonald's, but for other companies as well?
    25        A.  No, this was McDonald's.  This was their approach in
    26        the Health and Safety Executive but Andrew Foster, from
    27        memory anyway, never mentioned to me they were concerned
    28        over a particular category of accident in McDonald's.
    29
    30   Q.   I am trying to identify whether he fixed on McDonald's
    31        because he thought they might be the worst in the catering
    32        industry or take-away catering section, or whether he
    33        thought the catering take-away catering sector as a whole
    34        had a high level of accidents or safety concerns, and they
    35        wanted to investigate one particular company as an example?
    36        A.  I do not think so in that one of the reasons Andrew
    37        gave me for coming to us is they wanted to see if they
    38        could learn anything from us.
    39
    40   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You said that, and the way you put it is they
    41        thought that you were good people to start with because you
    42        appeared to have a better reporting rate than others and
    43        factors like that.  In fact, I think what Mr. Morris has
    44        also in mind is did the HSE turn its attention to the
    45        catering industry, picking you as a good starting point,
    46        but did they turn its attention to the catering industry
    47        because it was concerned about safety standards in the
    48        catering industry, or can you not say?
    49        A.  I do not think I can say.  I cannot remember having
    50        that sort of conversation with Andrew, so it would be pure 
    51        speculation. 
    52 
    53   MR. MORRIS:  In fact, so the HSE was aware, there had been quite
    54        a number of local Environmental Health Officers contacting
    55        them?
    56        A.  Yes, they had.
    57
    58   Q.   A national survey would have been one way of dealing with
    59        it, rather than only dealing with it one at a time, kind of
    60        think?

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