Day 095 - 02 Mar 95 - Page 48
1 Q. I do not know where it is. You have a copy of that to
2 hand?
3 A. Not at hand.
4
5 MR. MORRIS: I have an unmarked copy here.
6
7 THE WITNESS: I have one.
8
9 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Carry on with your questions. You have a
10 copy, Dr. Gomez Gonzalez has a copy.
11
12 MR. RAMPTON: Your Lordship will shortly have one.
13
14 MS. STEEL: It has some handwriting on the front page?
15 A. Yes.
16
17 Q. Whose handwriting is that?
18 A. Paul Simmons.
19
20 Q. So did he say that that is what he thought about this
21 document?
22 A. We discussed it.
23
24 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Can you read it out because I do not have it?
25 A. The comment says: "Very good terms and definitions
26 regarding animal welfare."
27
28 MS. STEEL: You discussed that?
29 A. Yes, we did.
30
31 Q. Did you agree with him about that?
32 A. No, not entirely. I agreed with the concept. The
33 things that we discussed that I do not agree are the
34 terminology of some of the terms. When it talks about the
35 welfare needs and it speaks of five items, it says freedom
36 from hunger, thirst, freedom from discomfort, from pain and
37 injury or disease, freedom to express normal patterns of
38 behaviour, freedom from fear. I do not know of any animal
39 that can meet those requirements and still be alive. That
40 is impossible. What we discussed is there should be care
41 and management as opposed to freedom.
42
43 Q. If you could have the animals complying with all five of
44 those you would not have a problem with that?
45 A. No, if I could.
46
47 Q. You would be happy about that?
48 A. If I could I would be extremely happy, yes.
49
50 Q. So your view is it is not possible full stop or what?
51 A. Absolutely.
52
53 Q. But does that mean that you cannot try to go as far along
54 that line as possible?
55 A. No.
56
57 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That is probably where you draw the line.
58 You can certainly try for them?
59 A. Absolutely.
60
