Day 133 - 12 Jun 95 - Page 47
1 1986 for the rest of industry?
2 A. I think we have said that that is something we do not
3 know about. That would obviously be something that we will
4 try to clarify from the Employment Department.
5
6 Q. If we take £1.99 as the basic starting rate outside of
7 London, that is actually £1.09 pence less than the average
8 for the hotel and catering industry; you would accept that?
9 A. Yes, I believe so. I have not done the calculation,
10 but I am sure that is right.
11
12 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You are just being asked to look at what is
13 there.
14 A. Yes. I am just not sure which -- am I looking at the
15 308?
16
17 MS. STEEL: Yes. In order for someone to make up that
18 £1.09 -----
19
20 MR. RAMPTON: "Some man". My Lord, Ms. Steel is failing to
21 distinguish between men and women.
22
23 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I know, Mr. Rampton, but I can read myself
24 and can see the relevant column. It would be £72 less for
25 females whereas in McDonald's you pay the same. But
26 I think all Ms. Steel is doing is seeing if her comments
27 are soundly based or she may have missed something.
28
29 MS. STEEL: In order for someone to make up that £1.09, if they
30 had a five pence per hour increase at their performance
31 review, which is the rate that is given for someone who
32 meets the job requirements, that would take them about 22
33 performance reviews, would it not?
34 A. Yes.
35
36 Q. Which would take about seven years for them to get level
37 with the rest of industry?
38 A. Well, I think I have not made that calculation but I am
39 sure you have, so I am sure it is correct. But what
40 I would say about that is that a couple of things, really,
41 about the pay rates, which is that these are very much
42 overall rates, and another factor which is relevant is that
43 they are also for people of all ages. What you do find
44 when you break things down into more detail is that pay
45 rates tend to be lower among the age groups where the
46 predominant number of our employees are. So, these figures
47 are very much overall figures. That is also relevant to
48 the point that you make about the amount of time and so on.
49
50 Q. We have not got the other figures here but, in any event,
51 McDonald's pay less for younger people as well?
52 A. I do not just mean under 18 and over 18 and so on;
53 I mean spreading a little further through the ages.
54
55 Q. Even if someone was managing to get a 10 pence per hour
56 increase at each performance review which, of course, for
57 that their performance would have to consistently exceed
58 job requirements and expectations, you would agree that it
59 would take 11 performance reviews for them to do that, so
60 it would take over three years? You would accept that?
