Day 018 - 26 Jul 94 - Page 82


     
     1        been 1979.
 
     2   Q.   I am not saying you should not be asked about that if
              necessary, but sheep have not come into this case so far.
     3        A.  At the same time I may well have observed the beef
              line but I did not take any measurements.
     4
         MR. MORRIS:  You do not remember any specific improvements?
     5        A.  I did go on another occasion to that line with the gun
              manufacture to test out a new gun.  I have no comment to
     6        make in terms of whether there are any improvements since
              then.  It does not seem to feature.  I do not know.
     7
         Q.   What about the cattle and McKey's suppliers?  Sorry,
     8        I thought that was pigs we were talking about just now?
              A.  Just now was plant B cattle.  I beg your pardon.
     9
         Q.   Sorry.
    10        A.  I had not been to the pig abattoir on any previous
              occasion.
    11
         Q.   So would it be fair to say that the plants that have been
    12        specifically mentioned in this case would have inevitably
              been affected about the general rise in standards, say,
    13        since the mid-80s?
              A.  I think it is likely that the awareness at these
    14        plants would have been more acute, and I think we can see
              that to some extent already in what I have mentioned in
    15        the case of the poultry plants; they have been improving
              their standards as time has progressed.
    16
         Q.   There is one thing you mentioned about the goad used to be
    17        used, the electric goad to be used at the beef plants, one
              of the beef plants that was dropped -- no, one of them
    18        dropped it?
              A.  The pig plant dropped it.  That is a good comment.
    19
         Q.   You do not know why hay dropped it?  Did they tell you?
    20        A.  Yes, they did tell me, and the reason first came from
              Mr. Ashley Bowes himself.  He did not like the goad and he
    21        requested that it be stopped.  Since then one of their
              other clients has asked for it to be stopped, you know,
    22        but not as a general recommendation, and that is
              reinforced the fact they do not use it.
    23
         Q.   Did he say why he did not like it?
    24        A.  No.
 
    25   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  They may have thought it was not necessary
              with pigs if they were handled in a proper way? 
    26        A.  Yes.  I do not know what his handling system was like 
              at that time.  Yes, but that is a possibility. 
    27
         MR. MORRIS:  Is the goad generally used?  Is that the majority
    28        for pigs?  Is it generally used in the transportation or
              moving pigs about?
    29        A.  Yes, it is in the case in the slaughter house, in
              lairage and getting the pig to the stunning point.
    30
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Could I just ask you because I am very wary

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