Day 138 - 20 Jun 95 - Page 21


     
     1        Federal Government for any kind of scrutiny examination or
     2        approval or disapproval?
     3        A.  Yes, I personally spent a great deal of time in
     4        Washington DC.
     5
     6   Q.   At what level have you personally discussed these matters
     7        with the United States Government?
     8        A.  I have -- this is going to sound like bragging but I do
     9        not mean to -- personally met with our President, President
    10        Clinton.
    11
    12   Q.   Do you know the rule against hearsay?  I do not want to
    13        know what he said.  Do not tell us what he said.  I just
    14        want to know at what level you discussed these matters?
    15        A.  OK.  With our President, with the Secretary of Labour,
    16        Reish, who is the US Secretary of Labour, at the highest
    17        levels as well as all the way up the administrative levels
    18        of the various Government agencies.
    19
    20   Q.   Pause there, if you will.  What I want to ask you is this:
    21        In consequence of those discussions -----
    22
    23   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Is this going to be just another way of
    24        telling me that they said they had no criticism of them?  I
    25        do not know just what Mr. Stein told President Clinton or
    26        what the extent of President Clinton's understanding of the
    27        detail was.
    28
    29   MR. RAMPTON:  Since your Lordship has both anticipated -----
    30
    31   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  With the very greatest respect to President
    32        Clinton, even if I did know what he thought, I would still
    33        have to decide this case myself.  He is not going to give
    34        the judgment for me, is he?
    35
    36   MR. RAMPTON:  No, he is not and what he thinks does not matter,
    37        I agree.  (To the witness):  Mr. Stein, may we now pass to
    38        specific cases?  I am going to take them, Mr. Stein, in the
    39        order in which you dealt with them in your written
    40        statement.  However, I shall, if I may, deal with one
    41        additional matter which I do know that you know about which
    42        is not in the statement which are the Mackle so-called
    43        child labour violations in Philadelphia ---
    44        A.  Yes.
    45
    46   Q.   -- since that is a pleaded matter, but I will not deal with
    47        that before the adjournment.  My Lord, I will, if I may,
    48        give your Lordship the references in Mr. Stein's first
    49        statement.
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, that would be helpful. 
    52 
    53   MR. RAMPTON:  The first one, my Lord -- they are all in
    54        paragraph 14 on page 7 -- is (i) and it is numbered 30 in
    55        the relevant section of the Abstract which, I think, is
    56        section 7.
    57        A.  I take it you do not want me to have anything in front
    58        of me?
    59
    60   Q.   That really, Mr. Stein, is a matter for his Lordship.

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