Day 190 - 23 Nov 95 - Page 36
1 MR. RAMPTON: Yes. It looks from that as though all of this has
2 come to Harriet Lamb from Steve Percy.
3
4 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That may be so. But all I am saying is, if
5 you were right on the principles, before one excluded that,
6 Mr. Morris, if he wished, should have the opportunity to
7 ask Ms. Lamb, when she was in the witness box, questions
8 directed to finding out whether she had any direct
9 knowledge or that what she said to the solicitors was based
10 on what SP had told her.
11
12 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, I accept that; of course I do. Bottom of
13 page 8, last paragraph, I think it is, paragraph 4, third
14 and fourth sentences; no objection at all. She, I take it,
15 had a hand at least in writing the article.
16
17 MR. JUSTICE BELL: So there is no objection to that?
18
19 MR. RAMPTON: No. Whether it is relevant or not, I do not know.
20 I have no objection to its being said. It appears
21 Mr. Grimes was -- what shall I say -- properly cautious
22 about the words in the article. It is his job.
23
24 Page 9. Again, there are potential problems with this in
25 the first and second paragraphs, for the reason that
26 your Lordship has just identified. It looks very much as
27 though this is information which Harriet Lamb has had
28 either from Steve Percy or from the employees themselves,
29 rather than it being a matter of direct observation.
30
31 MR. JUSTICE BELL: The only thing which occurred to me -- I am
32 sorry to interrupt again, but it may clear the air; where
33 it takes me is entirely another matter -- but at the moment
34 I am minded to think that evidence is admissible of crew
35 saying: "We have heard that a store was completely closed
36 down after a union has been started. We have heard that
37 employees are sacked if they engage in union activities",
38 because, as I understand it -- and I hope I will be
39 corrected if I am wrong -- what the Defendants wish to say
40 at the end of the day is that there was so many rumours
41 like this flying around that competent management could not
42 have helped but be aware of them and, yet, they did nothing
43 to quell them because it suited McDonald's purposes that
44 their crew should think that they would come off worse if
45 they took part in union activities.
46
47 MR. RAMPTON: I understand that. As your Lordship says, how far
48 it takes your Lordship at the end of the day -----
49
50 MR. JUSTICE BELL: At the moment, I have a completely open mind
51 on it. I am not leaning one way or the other.
52
53 MR. RAMPTON: No.
54
55 MR. JUSTICE BELL: So, on that basis, is it not admissible?
56
57 MR. RAMPTON: It is admissible -- well, I would rather not argue
58 it in the context of this discussion, because it is not
59 something that Harriet Lamb says, anyway; it is something
60 which she reports that Mark Ryan said.
