Day 105 - 16 Mar 95 - Page 36


     
     1        Directives because they have an EC licence".
     2
     3   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  This is comment at the end of the day, not in
     4        the middle of cross-examination.
     5
     6   MR. RAMPTON:  I merely asked witnesses whether it is EC
     7        approved.  I do not give evidence.
     8
     9   MS. STEEL:  That is completely meaningless.
    10
    11   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Why tell me now?
    12
    13   MS. STEEL:  Because Mr. Rampton is objecting to what we are
    14        asking about.
    15
    16   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I ask both sides not to rise to the challenge
    17        about that.  There is a time and place for putting
    18        arguments and it is not during the cross-examination of the
    19        witnesses.  Try and elicit the ground which you think you
    20        need to base your argument.  That you think you have by
    21        reason of asking the questions about whether the detention
    22        of condemned rooms are chilled or not.
    23
    24        At some stage, at least, try and get a look at a textbook
    25        on European law because if you are going to rely upon
    26        breach of directives, it will be well to know, and for me
    27        to know -- I will have to do some looking up myself -- just
    28        what their impact is. I make it quite clear that I am not
    29        an expert on European law and I will probably need some
    30        help in relation to that.
    31
    32   MR. RAMPTON:  Nor am I at the moment.
    33
    34   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  We all have to do a bit of learning.
    35
    36   MR. MORRIS:  Can I just finish on that subject?
    37        (To the witness):  On that subject, then, the OVSs that, as
    38        I understand it, are there to represent MAFF effectively,
    39        is that correct?
    40        A.  Represent the enforcement authority which I know as
    41        local authority, yes.
    42
    43   Q.   So for seven years they tolerated a situation which was
    44        against the requirements whether, they are statutory or
    45        not, of the MAFF?
    46        A.  Could we take both points separately, statutory and
    47        non-statutory.  I think it is important to distinguish
    48        between them.
    49
    50   Q.   It is a requirement though, you said it was a requirement? 
    51        A.  The law has been more or less continually changing, and 
    52        certainly the recommendations have been changing over the 
    53        past seven years.  So that my understanding would be that
    54        MAFF, who do issue the licence whilst they do not
    55        administer the day-to-day hygiene procedures, which is by
    56        the local authority, in issuing licences invariably over
    57        this period of change have issued them subject to certain
    58        works being carried out on an agreed work plan.  That is
    59        not, in my opinion, to say that a plant ought not to have a
    60        licence because the authority cannot apply the health mark.

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