Day 181 - 01 Nov 95 - Page 08
1 MR. MORRIS: I just -- I did the exercise -----
2
3 MR. JUSTICE BELL: The suggestion I have to make is that at some
4 stage -- it does not necessarily have to be while there is
5 an employment witness still to come, but you have to give a
6 bit of thought as to whether it would be an advantage to do
7 it before an appropriate employment witness is to come --
8 you have to make a schedule or two, spelling out your
9 calculation.
10
11 What I suggest you might do is look at what I have done,
12 when it comes. I hope I will be able to hand copies to
13 everyone today. You do not have to do it for everyone in
14 relation to whom you have relevant documentation, or even a
15 lot of the people in relation to whom you have
16 documentation. But what I think you have to do is do it in
17 relation to what you think are a number of specimen
18 people.
19
20 MR. MORRIS: We have not got very many documents. This is just
21 one of the documents we have, which -----
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23 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, can I suggest -----
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25 MR. MORRIS: We have not even checked the overtime rates until
26 yesterday.
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28 MR. RAMPTON: Can I suggest one reason why this is a sterile
29 exercise, particularly with a witness in the witness box:
30 we do not have the actual rates of pay for these people.
31
32 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No, we may not. But what I am saying is, it
33 may well be that if the calculation is done, a hole can be
34 shot in it by one side or the other.
35
36 MR. RAMPTON: Quite.
37
38 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It may be, for instance, if Mr. Morris does a
39 calculation of this kind or when mine comes back, one of
40 your schoolboy howlers will be discovered. It may be that
41 if someone on your side does a calculation to show that X,
42 who was being paid something like 40 pence an hour more
43 than the minimum, if you work out what they were paid in
44 the week, that additional 40 pence was enough to make up
45 any shortfall; and then Mr. Morris or Ms. Steel may be able
46 to shoot a hole in that. But that really just demonstrates
47 what I hope is the good sense of what I am saying, that
48 some time in advance a number of schedules, probably quite
49 a limited number, have to be produced so that everyone can
50 think about them. I am not saying anything terribly
51 bright. I am just saying it, Mr. Morris, so that you and
52 Ms. Steel can appreciate the benefit of ------
53
54 MR. RAMPTON: There are hours of innocent fun to be had with the
55 Bath documents, for example.
56
57 MR. MORRIS: (To the witness): You have heard what has been
58 said, Mr. Pearson; and I have also calculated that
59 25 per cent of all the people on these two pages worked
60 over 40 hours, and 12.5 per cent worked over 45 hours.
