Day 181 - 01 Nov 95 - Page 10


     
     1        means......"
     2
     3   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I am sorry to interrupt yet again.  Can
     4        I make one point?  You described it as the Wages Council
     5        order, which is understandable.  (To the witness): You are
     6        actually in the order?  Yes.  As I understand it, the first
     7        two pages are an information notice, which are immediately
     8        followed by the order itself?
     9        A.  Yes.
    10
    11   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Yes, thank you.  Carry on.
    12
    13   MS. STEEL:  Just whether you could assist with any further --
    14        I mean, I do not know whether you know how exactly "meal"
    15        would be interpreted?
    16        A.  Yes.  It is of sufficient quality and quantity.  These
    17        words actually were laboured over many times in the Wages
    18        Councils, because there were concerns reported to the Wages
    19        Council by workforce representatives -- that is our job,
    20        you know -- over the quality and the quantity of food made
    21        available to employees.
    22
    23   Q.   Right.
    24        A.  It was a clear requirement that they should be
    25        sufficient in quality as well as quantity; in other words,
    26        a sandwich or a bun would not do.  This is supposed to be a
    27        meal, and it is supposed to be available during a meal
    28        break.
    29
    30        I can well remember the leader of the employees' side,
    31        Fred Cooper from the GMB trade union, I can remember very
    32        clearly his references again and again to concerns that
    33        this should be what it says it should be; not a snack, not
    34        a sandwich, but a meal on duty.
    35
    36   Q.   What about a cooked sandwich in terms of, for example, a
    37        burger in a bun but, generally speaking, without
    38        vegetables, I think?
    39        A.  If I may say, my Lord, in my opinion, in the mid-80s
    40        the wages inspectors would have been hard pressed to decide
    41        whether a burger in a bun would or would not qualify.  That
    42        is all I can say.
    43
    44   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is my reaction, I must say.  Again, I am
    45        not going to stop you asking Mr. Pearson, but this must be
    46        a matter of law, in fact.
    47
    48   MS. STEEL:  No.  I just wondered whether he was able -----
    49
    50   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That means it is for me alone to decide.  But 
    51        I would have thought that -- anyway, there we are. 
    52 
    53        One thing I do want to ask:  when you said in a meal break,
    54        do you mean a paid meal break or just a break given for the
    55        purpose of eating a meal?
    56        A.  Well, whether it were paid or not would depend -----
    57
    58   Q.   It is another matter altogether?
    59        A.  It would depend on the employment contract.
    60

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