Day 053 - 22 Nov 94 - Page 41
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2 To go on to page 24, the following page, he says:
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4 "We do not believe that there is any real scientific merit
5 in suggesting that there is an association, at least not
6 one which a respectable scientist would accept."
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8 We submit that, in the light of these comments and other
9 similar comments, the assertion by Mr. Rampton that the
10 witness statements served by both parties recognised that
11 the principal issue was whether there is a causal
12 connection between consumption of the Plaintiffs' food and
13 degenerative diseases or illnesses and those that eat it,
14 is totally wrong.
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16 Going on to paragraph 15 -----
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18 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Can I just go back to something you said this
19 morning? You gave various kinds of meanings; you said
20 "causal link" was one kind of link, "statistical
21 association" was another -- I appreciate that may not be
22 causal -- and promotion is another.
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24 To my mind, subject to any further argument, that is
25 causal, because it is part of what is necessary for the
26 cancer to demonstrate itself clinically at the end of the
27 day; and when we talk about having cancer, we mean cancer
28 which is diagnosable or in some way clinical cancer.
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30 You said treatment is another, that is, it can be cured by
31 adopting a certain diet, it would show some kind of
32 relationship was there, some kind of link. Again, that
33 might be thought to be demonstrating a causal link, because
34 if you cut off the cause you get better, or part of
35 the cause, you get better or do not get worse.
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37 Also, you said the word "link" encompasses an indirect link
38 through obesity, and we talked about obesity, age at
39 menarche, the protective factor, or what might be the
40 protective factor of eating a lot of vegetables and,
41 therefore, taking on board fibre. But again that was
42 related causally to cancer and that, in turn, was related
43 to whether you have a high meat and, therefore, a high fat
44 diet or not.
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46 So, of the various kinds of links you have made, all of
47 them have an element of causality, be it direct or less
48 direct, except the statistical one. Do you follow what
49 I am putting to you? Is that not a factor to take into
50 account, that wherever you see the word "link", if you
51 think of what "link" might mean, most of the things it
52 might mean are a form of causal link, however direct or
53 indirect that may be.
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55 MS. STEEL: I understand what you are saying. I do not know
56 where that leaves us in terms of where witnesses have
57 referred to "link" and we have not clarified with them what
58 they mean by "link", whether it encompasses those things.
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60 MR. JUSTICE BELL: One can look at their evidence or their
