Day 157 - 18 Jul 95 - Page 33


     
     1         -- it is at the bottom of that paragraph --
     2         "notwithstanding that we never had any or any substantial
     3        evidence to support the allegations complained of".  Then
     4        over the page "... and despite the lack of any or any
     5        substantial support for the allegations in the evidence
     6        served in the main action by way of discovery and witness
     7        statements, by which we include also the statements made by
     8        witnesses in the witness box but which are evidence in the
     9        case".
    10
    11        So, the Plaintiffs are seeking to rely for their proof of
    12        our knowing that the London Greenpeace leaflets, or
    13        whatever, are false or lies on us not having any support
    14        for those facts or opinions in the evidence in the case as
    15        a whole.  But we would say that the evidence of their
    16        witnesses in the witness box or, in fact, both sides'
    17        witnesses in the witness box is support, obviously, for the
    18        correctness of the London Greenpeace leaflets of various
    19        kinds, and we know that, not just because we have been able
    20        to take a note but because transcripts exist which have
    21        that evidence in them.
    22
    23        So, we would contend that by the Plaintiffs' own admission
    24        they are relying on the material generally in this case to
    25        try and prove the correctness of their defence to our
    26        counterclaim.  Therefore, we are entitled to have whatever
    27        records, official records especially, or the transcripts,
    28        we are entitled to have those to use them in defence of
    29        ourselves or to promote our counterclaim against them and
    30        again, therefore, they are discoverable documents on those
    31        grounds as well.
    32
    33        I have got some other matters to bring up, but they are not
    34        in a very good order.  So I will just do it as I come to
    35        them to make sure I have not actually forgotten anything
    36        that may be important.
    37
    38   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You are staying on transcripts, are you?
    39
    40   MR. MORRIS:  Yes, it is all about transcripts.  I am going to
    41        finish up with the Order 18, rule 19 matter, but, before
    42        I come on to that, just to refresh the court's memory as to
    43        the power to order transcripts to be provided to
    44        impecunious litigants for a Court of Appeal -- I know that
    45        was gone over before so I will not go into that in
    46        any detail -- but to say that we will cite that as a matter
    47        of principle that the courts have accepted and if it is to
    48        the benefit of a defendant -- of a party that they have
    49        access to transcripts in order to take a matter to the
    50        Court of Appeal, then it should also be in the interests 
    51        that a defendant has a transcript to prosecute what is the 
    52        case, to defend themselves by exception, certainly, of 
    53        course, in the case where the other party has the
    54        transcript already.
    55
    56   MS. STEEL:  We were going to hand up a copy of the letter that
    57        we wrote to the Lord Chancellor last week, (handed) an
    58        application for the Lord Chancellor's Department to
    59        underwrite the costs of transcripts to the conclusion of
    60        the trial since we are both in receipt of income support

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