Day 098 - 07 Mar 95 - Page 43
1 A. I do not think I have ever seen an animal in a bid to
2 escape during unloading, i.e. trying to jump the fence or
3 anything like that.
4
5 Q. No, but you have said they have the fences there to stop
6 them walking off?
7 A. Yes.
8
9 Q. And escaping from the pen area?
10 A. Yes.
11
12 Q. Or the lairage area. To be honest, I just do not know. It
13 is stupid asking these but it is such an obvious point
14 really that they are hardly likely to all queue up
15 willingly.
16
17 MR. JUSTICE BELL: When they come down the ramp and the walk off
18 the ramp and they are on the ground, are they already in a
19 pen then or do they have to be herded through a gate into a
20 pen?
21 A. The pen gate is open, the ramp opens down to that open
22 gate and then they walk into the pen.
23
24 Q. So as soon as they walk off the bottom they are in a pen?
25 A. Yes.
26
27 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, Ms. Steel says it is an obvious point.
28
29 MR. MORRIS: If we are going to debate about this, we should do
30 it without the witness being present.
31
32 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No, no, you cannot object to Mr. Rampton
33 standing up to speak.
34
35 MR. RAMPTON: No. Ms. Steel says it is obvious point that the
36 animals do not queue up willingly. If she is to make a
37 case on that, she must pursue it with the witness.
38
39 MR. JUSTICE BELL: One has to admit to a bit of seeing the way
40 animals operate, and I would have to say I know, from my
41 own experience, that a dozen will come off a lorry
42 perfectly happy and then there will be one frisky one who
43 has a mind of its own and heaven knows where it will go
44 unless you keep an eye on it; is that fair?
45 A. That is reasonably fair to say, sir.
46
47 MR. RAMPTON: I had in mind what is in the pamphlet, you see.
48
49 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I have that as well. But there will always
50 be one beast who wants to go somewhere else; is that fair
51 enough?
52 A. Or does not want to go anywhere at all, sir, yes.
53
54 MS. STEEL: That is another thing that happens, is it not, like
55 the cows can sometimes -- I think Dr. Gregory said -- dig
56 in their hooves and refuse to move?
57 A. Yes.
58
59 Q. That happens quite a bit, yes?
60 A. It depends what you mean by "quite a bit" -- I mean, it
