Day 132 - 07 Jun 95 - Page 25


     
     1   MR. MORRIS:  OK.  (To the witness):  I put it to you -- I do not
     2        have to put it to you really -- is it not a fact that the
     3        reason that the HSE report or investigation was helpful to
     4        McDonald's was precisely because of the scale of different
     5        EHO criticisms and suggestions, and that a national picture
     6        was a much better way to proceed in terms of improving
     7        safety, would you accept that?
     8        A.  I would accept the fact that the Health and Safety
     9        Executive report was very useful to McDonald's because it
    10        went into management of safety in a way that an individual
    11        EHO would not because, obviously, he is just commenting on
    12        individual matters.  When it comes to the correlation of
    13        information from EHOs and so on, I know that is something
    14        that Jill Barnes had worked very hard on so that we made
    15        sure the flow of information was right.
    16
    17   Q.   So the correlation of the EHOs' criticisms prior to the
    18        investigation by the HSE, there would have been some
    19        ongoing ---
    20        A.  Work had been started on it.
    21
    22   Q.   -- report or analysis?
    23        A.  You see, one of the problems is with the local
    24        authority that if they went into a McDonald's and found a
    25        defect, they might send up a letter or a comment, or
    26        whatever, directly to that restaurant.  Now, there is
    27        always a risk under those circumstances that it is not
    28        registered centrally, if you like, so what Jill did was to
    29        make sure that she was notified of all EHO activity, make
    30        sure that the Company responded positively to criticism and
    31        make sure, obviously, that any underlying trends could be
    32        identified.  So that was part of the flow of information
    33        that she set up.
    34
    35   Q.   Right.  Did you see that work that she had done in terms of
    36        analysing the number of contacts that had happened with the
    37        EHOs, what the trends were?
    38        A.  I have seen -- I saw the original letter that went to
    39        all local authorities, suggesting that they contact direct,
    40        giving them contact points and so on and so forth.  I am
    41        not sure of what statistical breakdowns have been done
    42        since or whether, indeed, one is appropriate.
    43
    44   Q.   So did these contacts that the EHOs were making, whether
    45        they were informal letters or points or whatever, was that
    46        something that applied to all regions?  It was not
    47        something that was happening in one region or something?
    48        A.  No, it applied right across the board.  We tried to
    49        centralise information from local authorities.
    50 
    51   Q.   But there were contacts from EHOs from all regions? 
    52        A.  As far as I am aware, yes.  I mean, EHOs are going to 
    53        inspect a McDonald's, certainly I would expect, on an
    54        annual basis, depending on their resource, anything up to
    55        four times a year in some instances.  Every one of these is
    56        going to create some sort of comment, I would have
    57        expected.
    58
    59   Q.   When you say four times a year, you mean that would be a
    60        local authority would say:  "We ought to check a McDonald's

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