Day 099 - 08 Mar 95 - Page 30
1 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It refers to "total world red meat
2 production" in the third line of chapter 11.
3
4 MR. RAMPTON: It is perhaps my fault for going a bit too
5 quickly, Mr. Kenny.
6
7 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It may well be that some of the micro
8 organisms like Campylobacter Jejuni are associated with
9 particularly chickens, I do not know. Do you know where
10 this photocopy actually came from?
11 A. Yes.
12
13 Q. Is it a book which is in your office?
14 A. It is not held in my office, no, but it is a book that
15 I can obtain.
16
17 Q. Would be you be able to bring it tomorrow morning, for
18 instance?
19 A. Tomorrow or the next day, yes.
20
21 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I think it would be a good idea if we had a
22 copy of the book in court and then any parts which are
23 thought to be important could be photocopied. It has
24 "edible offal". I suppose that could refer to chickens,
25 but it is not how I would normally read it.
26
27 MR. RAMPTON: No. I am afraid, my Lord, I have not -- perhaps
28 I should have done -- read the text, so one can look at it
29 and see whether, in fact, it is all raw meat or not.
30 (To the witness): But leaving that, Mr. Kenny, and going
31 back to tab B, the second appendix, one sees that,
32 apparently, McKey do specific tests for E.coli and we
33 understand that to be E.coli 0157 H?
34 A. Yes.
35
36 Q. Clostridium perfringens: What does that do to people, do
37 you know?
38 A. It is a food poisoning organism, yes.
39
40 Q. It is. Then there is various Staphylococci, including
41 aureus, I cannot remember what the other one is called.
42 A. Yes.
43
44 Q. Then there is Salmonella at the bottom of the page ---
45 A. Yes.
46
47 Q. -- for which the specification or the guideline by McKey is
48 "absence in 25 grammes". Do you know what that means?
49 A. Yes, these all relate to the recommendations from the
50 Minced Meat Directive at the bottom of the page. The
51 absence -- the test for Salmonella is basically a presence
52 or absence test. You take 25 grammes of materials the
53 usual size and you selectively try to grow some
54 Salmonella. So, it is either there or it is not. You do
55 not have -- you do not know how many organisms are there.
56
57 Q. So it is a specific test?
58 A. Yes.
59
60 Q. Then if you look back up the page at E.coli, 50 colonies
