Day 023 - 13 Sep 94 - Page 04
1 know, it is not something I keep in my thoughts every day
2 of the week, sort of thing, but certainly animals did
3 inhale cigarette smoke, yes.
4
5 Q. Right.
6 A. That was another factor in the evidence which was
7 accumulated to incriminate cigarettes in the causation of
8 lung cancer.
9
10 Q. But you are not aware of the studies where they did not
11 actually get cancer?
12 A. The trouble with any experiment -- I am not aware of
13 these but, you know, assuming experiments were conducted
14 and lung cancers did not develop, no system is absolutely
15 full-proof. You will have -- it is the body of evidence
16 that one accumulates which gives you an indication of
17 whether there is a relationship between X and Y. It is
18 not just one individual experiment. That is what I have
19 been saying about the matters we are discussing. You
20 cannot just rely on one publication to say that is
21 absolutely right; it is a question of the body of evidence
22 and the consistency of the evidence which is responsible.
23
24 So, even if one experiment with cigarette smoking and
25 animals did not produce lung cancer, that would not
26 necessarily mean to say there was not a relationship. It
27 would be what the overall body of evidence showed that
28 would be important.
29
30 Q. Yes, but you are saying that, you know, I do not know, you
31 believe the results of experiments where tar is painted on
32 the skin, despite the fact that there seemed to be quite
33 apparent difficulties in comparisons in terms of dosage,
34 you know, other similar things to what you were
35 criticising yesterday?
36 A. This is true of all animal experiments and it is what
37 people acknowledge. This is a generally acknowledged fact
38 that animal systems are different from human systems. The
39 animals themselves are different because they are
40 specially bred, as I mentioned yesterday, and obviously
41 the exposure that is carried out in an experiment is
42 different from that which people are exposed to during
43 their normal life.
44
45 What animal experiments can do is actually provide
46 pointers and suggestions; they do not necessarily give you
47 absolute categorical proof that something is related to
48 another.
49
50 Q. You say you are completely convinced of the links between
51 smoking and lung cancer. I am not trying to argue that
52 there is not a link, but I am trying to get at the reasons
53 why you are so convinced.
54 A. It is just the overwhelming and consistent evidence.
55
56 MR. JUSTICE BELL: From various sources and various kinds of
57 investigation?
58 A. That is correct.
59
60 Q. Of which the painting on of tar is one?
