Day 107 - 24 Mar 95 - Page 36


     
     1        production system serves to magnify the contamination.
     2
     3   Q.   Of this particular kind of product that McDonald's serve?
     4        A.  Indeed, the proportion of food affected, not
     5        necessarily the total number, although there almost
     6        certainly will be opportunities.  The point then devolves
     7        is quite significant -- a significant point devolves as to
     8        the infective dose of the various organisms dealt with.
     9
    10        Through the process, given that -- let us assume that we
    11        have this -- given there is no multiplication, as you
    12        spread the contamination, obviously, there is a dilution
    13        effect.  But, where we are dealing with organisms such as
    14        E.coli 0157, where the available evidence is that very low
    15        doses may give rise to disease, a high initial dose
    16        subsequently diluted will still end up at the shop at a
    17        level capable of causing disease.
    18
    19        We then have a situation where, essentially, the only
    20        single safeguard is that cooking process.  That, frankly,
    21        is a very fragile system.  Anybody who is at all aware of
    22        the principles of risk reduction and risk avoidance will be
    23        fully conscious that unless you have overlapping
    24        safeguards, in other words, fail-safe principles, your
    25        system is fragile.  In aviation, you may be aware -- to
    26        illustrate the principle ----
    27
    28   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do not tell me that.
    29        A.  Sorry.
    30
    31   MR. MORRIS:  Are there any safeguards which because of the
    32        products that McDonald's sell, which you have said already
    33        are particularly prone to spreading the contamination
    34        throughout all the products, is there any system which they
    35        could put in place which would actually be more effective
    36        in minimising the risk?
    37        A.  Well, I have pointed out the fragility of the system
    38        and mentioned, and will now reinforce that, that more
    39        reliance on, say, mechanical systems with ------
    40
    41   Q.   Give us an example?
    42        A.  I have seen in a not dissimilar context equipment which
    43        relies on multiple heating sources, instead of just surface
    44        heating, you see tunnel cookers where the food goes through
    45        a tunnel rather than simply sits on a heated surface.
    46
    47   Q.   Like a conveyor belt or something?
    48        A.  A tunnel cooker, yes, with a conveyer belt going
    49        through.  Now, they then rely on two sources of heating;
    50        one is the direct radiation which is what we are dealing 
    51        with here, and a certain amount of conduction and 
    52        radiation, but also putting in a microwave facility so that 
    53        you are actually getting internal heating as well, and then
    54        with online remote sensors so that each burger temperature
    55        is measured as it goes through the system, coupled to the
    56        machine so that if it does not reach the temperature then
    57        the machine shuts down and you cannot -----
    58
    59   Q.   Is this actually in operation in any place?
    60        A.  Yes, I have seen it in Holland.  The equipment -----

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