Day 187 - 13 Nov 95 - Page 52
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2 My Lord, can I finally say one word about Miss Tobin?
3 I was just looking back at her statement just now. It does
4 have a tremendous amount of hearsay in it. Therefore, I am
5 a little bit chary about the usual practice of Mr. Morris
6 just reading it out. I do not, personally, mind how much
7 hearsay your Lordship hears because I know what the fate of
8 hearsay will be in your Lordship's mind. But I am not
9 terribly keen on Mr. Morris reading out a statement which
10 consists, I would guess -- at a rough estimate -- about
11 half of the allegations on their face. Things like "he
12 told me" or "they told me" or "she told me".
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14 MR. JUSTICE BELL: What are you doing, encouraging me to make an
15 exception to my ruling so that her evidence is taken
16 orally, as the earlier witnesses were?
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18 MR. RAMPTON: Either that, or it should be taken as read. What
19 I am encouraging the Defendants to do, through your
20 Lordship, is perhaps something slightly different, which is
21 to go through the statement with Miss Tobin before she gets
22 into the witness box and verifies, it seems to me, is
23 apparent on the face of the statement that, indeed, those
24 bits are hearsay, and then if Mr. Morris wants to read it
25 out he should omit those pieces.
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27 It is quite apparent I do not have to go through them. The
28 Defendants now know what hearsay is, so that should not be
29 a problem. Perhaps, that having been done, one could have
30 a short and, one would hope, relatively uncontroversial
31 discussion before she starts as to which those passages are
32 which should not be read out. If it would help for me to
33 say which are the passages which, to my eye at least, have
34 the appearance of being 100 per cent hearsay I will do it.
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36 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I think it would be probably, if you just go
37 through it.
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39 MR. RAMPTON: I will do, yes. It starts off -----
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41 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It is number 14 -----
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43 MR. RAMPTON: There are some parts I am suspicious of.
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45 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Do you have a copy of her statement here,
46 Mr. Morris?
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48 MR. MORRIS: I think it is in the bundle, yes.
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50 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It is pale blue 2, divider 14. I do not want
51 to embark on an argument now, but if you just say so that
52 I can put brackets around and Mr. Morris can, if he wishes,
53 or Ms. Steel.
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55 MR. RAMPTON: I will only do the ones which, as I say, to my eye
56 are perfectly apparent. There are others that I am
57 suspicious of, but I will wait until I hear what she says
58 in cross-examination, so far as that is concerned. The
59 first one -- they start on page 2 -- the first one is in
60 the fifth paragraph, the last sentence.
