Day 251 - 17 May 96 - Page 19


     
     1        Placa de San Janero(?), it comes up through
     2        Baradegayasis(?) and then goes all the way up, running
     3        north.  The whole of that river valley goes through
     4        Baradegayasis, also it goes through the Banganal Island(?),
     5        and all that region has had conflicts, a lot of conflict,
     6        with peasant families, has had conflicts with the Indians,
     7        and also was, when I first went there, an area of very
     8        dense tropical forest.
     9
    10   MR. MORRIS:  So when you say 'that area' you are talking about
    11        the area which is the river and its tributaries?
    12        A.  I am talking about the river and its tributaries.
    13
    14   Q.   On both sides, both in Goias State and in Mato Grosso?
    15        A.  Both in Goias State and in Mato Grosso.
    16
    17   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause a moment.  You were telling me
    18        something about what the land was like there?
    19        A.  Just while I notice, you are going to have some
    20        difficulty because in Brazilian there are often two ways of
    21        spelling, I just noticed, for example, that "Jussara" is
    22        spelt one way by Braslo and is spelt a different way on our
    23        map.
    24
    25   Q.   What is?
    26        A.  Jucara.
    27
    28   Q.   Can you spell that?
    29        A.  On the map it is spelt J-U-C cedilla A-R-A.  It is the
    30        place which lies on our map about an inch and a half east
    31        of Baradagayasis.
    32
    33   MR. MORRIS:  It is on that main road that runs east-west just
    34        north of Goiania and to the west of Goiania?
    35        A.  On the list sent by Braslo, it is the same place but it
    36        is spelt with two S's which gives an identical
    37        pronunciation.  "Jew Sarah", J-U-S-S-A-R-A.
    38
    39   Q.   Is that all part of that river basin?
    40        A.  That is all part of the area that was opened up to
    41        cattle ranching as a result of the tax incentive schemes
    42        which came into effect in the 1970s.  When I first went
    43        there was an area of extremely dense humid tropical forest.
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause a moment.  When was that?
    46        A.  That is the region that I visited a lot.
    47
    48   Q.   When you first went there?
    49        A.  When I first went there, my first trip was '71 or '72.
    50 
    51   Q.   Which area are you actually talking about, because we were 
    52        up near San Miguel de Araguaia at one moment, now we are 
    53        down at Jucara.  Which is the area you are saying was dense
    54        humid tropical forest?
    55        A.  I travelled on the road which runs from
    56        Baradegayasis.
    57
    58   Q.   Where is that?
    59        A.  That is on the Araguaia River.
    60

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