Day 207 - 23 Jan 96 - Page 27
1 as to when it is to be taken; and I have not lost sight of
2 the fact that there may be provisions as to other breaks,
3 quite apart from the main ones.
4
5 MR. MORRIS: Can I also say that it will be our case that breaks
6 should be paid for, but in fact that is the -----
7
8 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You have made that point.
9
10 MR. MORRIS: And not paying for breaks is only encouraging
11 people to collaborate in not getting their rights, by not
12 paying them for those breaks.
13
14 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Argue that to me at the end of the day.
15
16 MR. MORRIS: Right.
17
18 MS. STEEL: (To the witness) To go back to where we were before
19 we started looking at these documents: you would accept
20 now, would you, that it was not just one or two people who
21 were affected by this problem and complained about it at
22 rap sessions, that it was widespread and it went on for
23 several years?
24 A. There are people obviously within this document, as you
25 just stated, who have breaks -- which I think it is yet to
26 be decided whether they are illegal or not -- but I never
27 saw Managers force people to take breaks of that length or
28 had complaints to me on that matter.
29
30 Q. Did you ever see Managers saying to people: "Do not go for
31 your break yet because, legally, you are not supposed to go
32 until between 11.30 and 2.30"?
33 A. No.
34
35 Q. Or: "Do not come back off your break yet, because you have
36 not had your legal entitlement of 45 minutes"?
37 A. No.
38
39 MR. MORRIS: Can I just say, if it helps the court, that that
40 page was one that was -- the pages we looked at are not
41 unique in the documents.
42
43 MR. JUSTICE BELL: What might help me at the end of the day is
44 if you are able to say that, if one looks at such and such
45 a day, there are X number of crew who are on duty from some
46 time in the morning until some time in the late afternoon;
47 and then you can tell me how many of them had their breaks
48 within the first two hours of their shifts and how many had
49 less than 45 minutes breaks, and things of that kind; and
50 then you can tell me whether they are Saturdays or whether
51 they are other days as well; in other words, the stepping
52 stones which you might say that it is endemic in McDonald's
53 to send people on early breaks and possibly shorter than 45
54 minutes on Saturdays, because the one thing which is
55 sacrosanct is getting in as much cash as one possibly can
56 during the very busy lunchtime period.
57
58 So you just work out what your stepping stones are, if that
59 is the sort of thing you are going to argue, and then be
60 prepared to say what your position is with regard to other
