Day 099 - 08 Mar 95 - Page 78


     
     1   Q.   So you are prepared to sell chicken with a salmonella count
     2        rather than not sell it at all, in effect?
     3        A.  We would not sell it with a salmonella count.  We would
     4        kill the salmonella before we ever sold it.
     5
     6   Q.   I see that.
     7        A.  It would be more unusual to find salmonella in beef
     8        than it would in chicken.
     9
    10   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Thank you.
    11
    12   MR. MORRIS:  I could quote to you from Mr. Walker's evidence.
    13
    14   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do not quote put.  The substance of what you
    15        want to quote.
    16
    17   MR. MORRIS:  It can be checked.  Pages 38 and 39 of Day 79, for
    18        example, one of the many quotes, Mr. Walker basically said
    19        that meat over the 10 million level containing more than 10
    20        million bacteria is processed, goes into patties, and by
    21        the time they get the results the refrigerated lorry has
    22        gone away?
    23        A.  I think I can see where the confusion is coming in
    24        actually.
    25
    26   Q.   "And it goes through to the stores?" "Yes".  Then he says
    27        what about cooking is the defence against bacterial
    28        infection anyway.
    29
    30   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What do you want to say about that?
    31        A.  I think the two areas that are being confused are the
    32        microbiological counts on the raw material, the meat as it
    33        comes into McKey's plant, and the microbiological
    34        specification on the finished frozen hamburgers.  The
    35        McKey's spec. which is for the raw materials is on page 16
    36        in the yellow file.  Mr. Walker would have said that even
    37        if it their unsatisfactory count is exceeded, they would
    38        still go on and process that meat into the finished
    39        product, for two reasons: One because that specification is
    40        tighter than the McDonald's finished product specification,
    41        and also the fact that if it was more than likely only a
    42        small part of a finished batch, that concentration of
    43        bacteria, if you like, would be diluted, in effect, by the
    44        other parts of the batch, the meat with lower counts, and
    45        so the end product would still come out below the
    46        McDonald's guidelines.
    47
    48   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, I am afraid to say I think there is a
    49        double confusion. It is not only that one must not confuse
    50        raw meat with finished product; it is that one must not 
    51        confuse McDonald's specification with McKey's own 
    52        guidelines which are 5,000,000, not 10, and that is in 
    53        effect what Mr. Walker was talking about at this stage in
    54        his evidence.
    55
    56   MR. MORRIS:  Well, I remember at least ----
    57
    58   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause for a moment.
    59
    60   MR. RAMPTON:  In that passage he is using the word

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