Day 033 - 10 Oct 94 - Page 50


     
     1        accepted) that there is (and remains) a significant
     2        possibility that diet is a cause of cancer.  There is no
     3        dispute about that; hence dietary recommendations are
     4        extremely valuable, more than justifiable, one would have
     5        thought required.
     6
     7   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is the way I had understood it.  We
     8        will have argument in due time.  None of this is designed
     9        to stop you bringing out the evidence which you have
    10        already brought out from Dr. Barnard.  It is just the
    11        extent to which asking him to approve matters which may be
    12        largely not in issue really progresses the trial.
    13
    14        The next sentence:  "One of the most basic conditions of
    15        ill-health is obesity and overweight".  "Obesity" is a
    16        term of art in medical circles.  It does not just mean
    17        weighing a bit more than you ought to weigh; that is why,
    18        presumably, they have "obesity" and "overweight" in there
    19        as well.
    20
    21   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, yes.  Dr. Barnard used the term "frank
    22        obesity" which I also took to be a term of art.
    23
    24   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is really quite useful.  That is when
    25        you get above the appropriate number, whatever it is, 25
    26        or 30 or whatever?
    27        A.  Correct.
    28
    29   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just take a moment because I am not trying
    30        to stop you making a point in Dr. Barnard's evidence; I am
    31        just looking at how much it helps for him to look at this
    32        particular article.  There may be bits there.  I had not
    33        read this.  I note over the page there is a very strong
    34        case to be made for controlling the proportion of fat in
    35        the diet.
    36
    37   MR. MORRIS:  Can I just refer to what I think the crux of this
    38        document is?  On that second page on the right-hand side,
    39        he says, that paragraph:  "It may be that these
    40        recommendations cannot be made with quite the same degree
    41        of confidence that applies to recommendations on vitamins,
    42        minerals and pathogenic bacteria.  I recognise that there
    43        are some scientists who would prefer to keep their results
    44        to themselves for another 20 to 30 years in the hope they
    45        can be rather more definite in their conclusions".  Then
    46        it says:  "This is quite unrealistic because anyone is
    47        free to read the scientific literature and decide for
    48        themselves what it means.  Very often they get it wrong
    49        because they lack the expertise and the breadth of
    50        knowledge which the researchers possess".  Over the page 
    51        it says:  "In my view, it is a great mistake for 
    52        scientists to assume that it is necessary to have a 
    53        complete understanding of the relationships between diet
    54        and health (or illness) before recommendations can be made
    55        to the public, with a high degree of confidence".  What is
    56        your view on that, Dr. Barnard, that last bit especially?
    57        A.  On the question of the completeness of our knowledge
    58        base?
    59
    60   Q.   About the time to make the recommendations?

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