Day 095 - 02 Mar 95 - Page 23


     
     1        confinement like that.
     2
     3   Q.   Is there anything unusual about what was shown of the
     4        conditions in there?
     5        A.  I have not seen those types of confinements in the
     6        United States.
     7
     8   Q.   Have you seen dairy farms?
     9        A.  Yes, I have, plenty.
    10
    11   Q.   So are you saying that they are confined but not in such
    12        close confinement?
    13        A.  Yes, they might be confined for milking when it comes
    14         -- they come into for milking, they are usually they are
    15        confined.
    16
    17   Q.   What about being kept indoors?
    18        A.  No, I have not seen it.
    19
    20   Q.   None of them?
    21        A.  I have not seen it, no.  There could be one or two in
    22        an extreme environment that it is too cold for them, it
    23        could be.  The major, just to give an indication, the major
    24        producer of milk in the United States is California.
    25        California has warm weather.  There is no need to keep them
    26        indoors or in confinement.
    27
    28   Q.   He was talking about not wasting up energy on walking
    29        around outside.  Would that be a reason for keeping them
    30        inside as well?
    31        A.  It could be a reason, yes.
    32
    33                     (Video recording continued)
    34
    35   Q.   Would you accept that the calves are taken away from their
    36        mothers at a couple of days old?
    37        A.  Yes.
    38
    39   Q.   Then that a large percentage of them are kept in veal
    40        crates?
    41
    42   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, I do not know that we are litigating veal
    43        calves.  I do not think there is anything to do with
    44        McDonald's in veal calves, I have to say.
    45
    46   MS. STEEL:  No, but is that what happens?
    47
    48   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause a moment.  It could be related.
    49        That might be right at the end of the day.  It could be
    50        related to the dairy industry which, rightly or wrongly, 
    51        has come in, could it not? 
    52 
    53   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, it could so far as the removal from the
    54        mothers is concerned.  I am not at all sure how even
    55        indirectly it could be thought that McDonald's has any
    56        responsibility, whether that be a good thing or a bad thing
    57        is a matter of opinion, but I do not at the moment
    58        understand how it can be thought McDonald's could even have
    59        an indirect responsibility for that.
    60

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