Day 037 - 14 Oct 94 - Page 25


     
     1        A.  Yes.
     2
     3   Q.   They have the saturated fat content, is that correct,
     4        page 36, yes?
     5        A.  I do not go as far as 36.
     6
     7   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, you will not; we have bundle numbers in
     8        advance of yours.  You are about 10 behind.  It will be
     9        about 26, page 26?
    10        A.  Yes, indeed.
    11
    12   MR. MORRIS:  We are not concerned with the levels of fat.  That
    13        is another matter.  But it does include the saturated fat
    14        content in this particular pamphlet; is that correct?
    15        A.  It is correct, yes.
    16
    17   Q.   So, what is the problem in this particular document that
    18        you can see regarding the saturated fat expression?
    19        A.  The way that the saturated fat is expressed, I suppose
    20        one has to be grateful for small mercies to see that there
    21        are figures given here.  Simply, it is pretty
    22        meaningless.  I mean -----
    23
    24   Q.   What is the standard way?
    25        A.  Well, the easiest way really for ordinary people to
    26        understand what is high-in-fat than something else is to
    27        express it as a percentage of calories.  That gives you a
    28        jolly good rule of thumb really, so you can compare one
    29        food against another or, indeed, one type of food against
    30        another.  It is a convention that is very widely adopted
    31        and it is not used here.
    32
    33   Q.   When you said the figures were meaningless, does that mean
    34        to the public?
    35        A.  Yes, essentially meaningless.  I do not know the
    36        intended distribution of this particular leaflet, but I
    37        would have thought to an ordinary person perusing this the
    38        figures would mean very little.  The advantage in the
    39        other method of expression is actually that it is quite
    40        dramatic.  You know, if you are genuinely and sincerely
    41        interested in conveying meaningful health information to
    42        ordinary people, then to express your calories as a
    43        percentage of -- your fat as a percentage of calories can
    44        actually produce some remarkable figures, like 75 per cent
    45        fat, that sort of thing.
    46
    47        That is the sort of dramatic figure that is possible to
    48        obtain.  That kind of figure, therefore, means more to
    49        ordinary people than just adding 9.9 grammes of fat, 13.6
    50        grammes of fat, 5 grammes of saturated fat.  For anybody 
    51        who knows anything about recipes, and I assume most female 
    52        purchasers of these products would to some extent, these 
    53        are very small amounts; 5 grammes is nothing; 28.35
    54        grammes comprise one ounce.  So we are talking about small
    55        amounts here.  It is all too easy to say, "It is just 5
    56        grammes here, 6.7 grammes there.  That is nothing".  If
    57        the information is given much more dramatically in the
    58        convention that is much more widely adopted as
    59        percentage----.
    60

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