Day 263 - 14 Jun 96 - Page 22
1 in this case, what went on at those meetings; and (c), for
2 example, from what Mr. Pocklington said in the witness box
3 yesterday, which was that all his notes would have been
4 about what went on at the meetings, they were not going to
5 be about anything else -- we can tell that they are
6 relevant.
7
8 It cannot be the case that you have to actually be able to
9 state specifically what is in the part that has been
10 blanked out before you can apply for the blanked out part
11 to be unblanked out, because that would be absurd, because,
12 you know, nobody is ever going to be in a situation where
13 they know what is there but they are applying for it to be
14 unblanked out. So it must be where there is reasonable or
15 very reasonable grounds for believing that what is there is
16 relevant; and we would say that those grounds are that the
17 subject matter of the notes is the meetings and it is the
18 events that went on at meetings which are in issue.
19
20 MR. MORRIS: Can I say something on that? To be fair to
21 Mr. Rampton, I do not think it is so much as misleading the
22 court, as that he has said what his test is of relevance,
23 which is, his test of relevance is, it relates what me and
24 Helen have said or if we are talked about or if McDonald's
25 is talked about. That is his test of relevance. But
26 because, in the pleadings, the nature of the group is an
27 issue, the weight of anti-McDonald's activities is an
28 issue, the weight within the group, for example, then the
29 real test of relevance is: is the material in the notes
30 about what was happening at the meeting attended by the
31 agents. So, for example, if suddenly in the notes the
32 agent starts talking about something which is nothing to do
33 with the London Greenpeace meetings, such as something
34 that, you know, an internal matter of Kings agency, nothing
35 to do with London Greenpeace -----
36
37 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You are back on the previous argument.
38 Mr. Rampton's whole case about what he has blanked out
39 relies upon his test of relevance being correct.
40
41 MR. MORRIS: That is right. But I think that if it looks like
42 we are trying to say that Mr. Rampton is deceiving the
43 court or something, we are not saying -----
44
45 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I had not assumed you were saying that.
46
47 MR. MORRIS: We are not saying that. We are just saying that
48 his test is the wrong test.
49
50 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes.
51
52 MS. STEEL: Going on -----
53
54 MR. JUSTICE BELL: If you are going to be more than a couple of
55 minutes, we will have the five-minute break.
56
57 MS. STEEL: I probably will be a little bit more than five
58 minutes.
59
60 MR. JUSTICE BELL: We will have the five-minute break.
