Day 154 - 13 Jul 95 - Page 32
1 not have to pay them any holiday pay?
2 A. You pay them the accrued holiday pay that they would
3 have accrued according to the length of time they had
4 worked in the establishment.
5
6 Q. Which is none, until they have been there at least four
7 months?
8 A. Until they have worked up the required service length
9 to qualify for the holiday, which is outlined in the crew
10 handbooks. We really do not encourage turnover of staff
11 soon into their career. We prefer them to stay a long time
12 and we prefer them to stay as long as possible.
13
14 MS. STEEL: I do not really know how I can put this to the
15 witness, but it was misrepresented to the witness when it
16 was in evidence-in-chief. Our case is that turnover ------
17
18 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Take it very slowly. Put it in a question to
19 the witness as well. If you want to tell me first, then
20 -----
21
22 MS. STEEL: To be honest, I do not know whether I can put it in
23 a question to the witness. Our case is that turnover is
24 high and that that does suit or benefit McDonald's in some
25 ways; and whether it be kept deliberately and consciously
26 high, or whether it is just the end result of the pay and
27 conditions that means that people are leaving on a regular
28 basis, it benefits McDonald's in a number of ways: it
29 makes it harder for the crew to unionise; the wage costs
30 are lower. They also would maintain a younger workforce,
31 because if people under 18 are being taken on and are not
32 staying on past 18, they do not have to pay the over-18
33 rate of pay to those crew.
34
35 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes.
36
37 MS. STEEL: That is basically it. I do not really know how I am
38 supposed to put a question directly on that to the witness.
39
40 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, I was not rising for that. I do
41 not believe it to be the law that a defendant to a libel
42 action is allowed to have his or her cake and eat it. If I
43 can stop this thing, I will, so that I can read what was
44 said. It is only this bit that troubles me. Ms. Steel
45 says that "turnover is high and that suits or benefits
46 McDonald's in some ways". There is no specificity there.
47 This is the bit that troubles me: "....and whether it be
48 kept deliberately and consciously high or whether it is
49 just the end result of pay and conditions that means that
50 people are leaving on a regular basis, it benefits
51 McDonald's". My Lord, the Defendants have to make up their
52 minds which of those alternatives they say their case is.
53 It has to be one or the other.
54
55 MS. STEEL: We do not have to make up our mind. The fact is
56 that turnover is high and it does benefit McDonald's.
57
58 MR. JUSTICE BELL: If they do not wish to say which it is that
59 they wish to give the alternatives, I will have it left
60 there. It is not what Mr. Morris has put, because he has
