Day 150 - 07 Jul 95 - Page 27


     
     1        whatever"?
     2        A.  No, they would not position it the way you have
     3        positioned it.  If, for example, that they became aware
     4        of -- no, what would happen in practice was that if a
     5        member of staff, and in the majority of cases it would be
     6        the sort of day versus neither shift, if there was somebody
     7        who was not available for the night shift which, say,
     8        starts at 4 o'clock and there was somebody scheduled to
     9        finish at 4.00, then the Manager would ask for that person
    10        to volunteer to, perhaps, stay around for an hour or so
    11        while we telephoned or the Manager in this case would
    12        telephone somebody else to come in.  I have had those sorts
    13        of circumstances happen.
    14
    15   Q.   So people could be asked, whether by phone or at the store,
    16        to stay on later?
    17        A.  Sure.
    18
    19   Q.   But are you making a distinction between that and being
    20        compelled to stay on?
    21        A.  There is no way that, well, in the first instance that
    22        we would want to compel somebody and, secondly, the
    23        individual would not do it, either there are commitments --
    24        but once again back to the idea of having the flexibility,
    25        the flexible approach, I have certainly had people come to
    26        me when I was a Restaurant Manager in Leicester asking to
    27        finish earlier because they needed to pick up their
    28        children, for example, because the child minder, or
    29        whatever, was unable to.  I would hope that that would
    30        almost be a reciprocal action, that should the need arise
    31        for me to ask someone to stay five, 10 maybe even an hour
    32        behind, if they could do it voluntarily and they were able
    33        to do it, then, yes, I have heard of those circumstances,
    34        but the idea of once again us barring the exit, forcing
    35        that person to stay on, just is not true.
    36
    37   Q.   I suppose somebody would say to you:  "Well, there are more
    38        subtle ways of putting pressure on people to do what the
    39        management want them to do when it comes to working either
    40        particular hours in the day which are not convenient to
    41        that person, or longer hours than that person wishes to do
    42        or, indeed, shorter hours than that person wishes to do".
    43        I will suggest a few of them to you and see what you have
    44        to say on them:  If you do not co-operate, then you are
    45        forced to do the toilets.  That is not a job that anyone
    46        likes doing, presumably.
    47        A.  But, what, you mean use it as a punishment, use that as
    48        a -----
    49
    50   Q.   Yes. 
    51        A.  But that is crazy then because that means then when 
    52        I do the job then I am punishing myself, if you take the 
    53        logic to itself.
    54
    55   Q.   So you do the job yourself, what, now?
    56        A.  I still do it now if I have to.
    57
    58   Q.   You still do it now?
    59        A.  Yes, but if it is -- I suppose it is too basic -- if
    60        there is a toilet or urinal that is blocked, then why would

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