Day 096 - 03 Mar 95 - Page 38


     
     1        lack of care during transport is responsible for that
     2        increased death rate?
     3        A.  No, I would not say that.  That is a natural phenomenon
     4        that occurs.  I would guess that you if you actually drove
     5        the pigs to their last destinations, whether that be a meat
     6        plant or whatever, you could have probably more deaths.
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, but that is not the comparison.  All
     9        Mr. Morris is saying is if 70 in 10,000 pigs die during a
    10        two hour lorry journey, only three-and-a-half in every
    11        10,000 pigs would die in two hours in a finishing unit?
    12        A.  Yes, that would -- yes.
    13
    14   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Go on to 1.00 if you can and pick a moment
    15        between questions when we can break off.
    16
    17   MS. STEEL:  When were goads banned by the company?
    18        A.  Pardon?
    19
    20   Q.   When were goads banned by the company?
    21        A.  About six years, seven years ago.
    22
    23   Q.   Prior to that were they quite widely used?
    24        A.  No, they were only used for specific purposes -- at
    25        times of loading with fully trained personnel.
    26
    27   Q.   But it would be standard to use them at times of loading?
    28        A.  Yes, if necessary -- not standard, if necessary.
    29
    30   Q.   Would they generally be used often most occasions, not
    31        necessarily on every pig, but on most occasions when -----
    32        A.  Some pigs would load up quite comfortably and well and
    33        easily and do not need any persuasion, and in those times
    34        they would just use it very, very gently.
    35
    36   Q.   But would there generally be pigs within every load
    37        that  -----
    38        A.  Not necessarily.
    39
    40   Q.   Not necessarily, but most loads then -- it is a strange
    41        answer.  I am not sure what he is saying.
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  But can you say?  What you are saying, as
    44        I understand it, is there was a time until six or seven
    45        years ago where fully trained personnel, you said, had
    46        goads at loading ---
    47        A.  Yes.
    48
    49   Q.   -- which they would use on a pig if they thought it
    50        necessary from time to time? 
    51        A.  Yes. 
    52 
    53   Q.   You say that it would not necessarily be used on a pig
    54        during every load?
    55        A.  Yes.
    56
    57   Q.   Can you be more precise than that?
    58        A.  Yes, there are some pigs that would just simply load up
    59        on their own, just run out of the piggery and on to the
    60        lorry without the need to use a goad.  Another load could

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