Day 180 - 31 Oct 95 - Page 38
1
2 MR. JUSTICE BELL: There is one other matter I think perhaps
3 I should ask, as my eye has fallen on it. In the paragraph
4 which appears after the Council of Europe's decency
5 threshold hold in Twilight Robbery, there are some
6 references to basic benefit, and "such a family" -- that is
7 two parents and two young children -- "would need gross
8 earnings of £105.45 a week to give a net weekly wage equal
9 to their supplementary benefit". So that is about the
10 same?
11 A. Yes. Those figures are approximately the same.
12
13 Q. But does not supplementary benefit vary according to rent
14 and things of that kind ---
15 A. Yes.
16
17 Q. -- or did it not then?
18 A. It did. The relevant benefit now, my Lord, I am sure
19 you are familiar, is Family Credit.
20
21 Q. Yes.
22 A. Family Credit provides for employees 16 hours or more a
23 week, two children and above, working in a low paid job.
24 It lifts up their wage to the equivalent benefit level.
25
26 MR. MORRIS: That is paid by the State?
27 A. It is paid by the State, yes; and the Family Credit
28 bill nationally is about £1 billion a year; and as many
29 commentators -----
30
31 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I do not want to ask you to give more detail
32 than is necessary. But the figure which you have given of
33 £105.45 ---
34 A. Yes.
35
36 Q. -- that would mean that, after any deductions which there
37 might be from that gross wage, they would come to a figure
38 which you are proposing there would be about what a typical
39 family of two parents and two children would get, basic and
40 supplementary benefit, at the time?
41 A. That is right.
42
43 Q. Is that right?
44 A. Yes.
45
46 Q. I mean, one family might get more, another family might get
47 less, depending on their rent and matters of that kind. Am
48 I correct about that?
49 A. Yes, you are. It just indicates the relationship
50 between benefit levels and the minimum wage level at that
51 time.
52
53 Q. So, if I put the £106 per week -----
54 A. 1984, remember.
55
56 Q. In 1984 -- it would be about the equivalent, after any
57 deductions, of the State benefit which two unemployed
58 parents with two young children might expect to receive in
59 1984; would that be accurate?
60 A. I think that is a fair statement, yes.
