Day 090 - 16 Feb 95 - Page 25
1 Q. Are you suggesting that -----
2
3 MR. JUSTICE BELL: May I just try to get the picture: What
4 would the actual numbers have to be, by what sort of
5 numbers would they have to be reduced?
6 A. You are reducing, you are really reducing it by one
7 bird per square metre. If I could just elaborate a little
8 bit more? This stocking density, I know, is a very -- it
9 creates a lot of discussion. If we, say, reduced our
10 stocking density from 18 birds to 17 birds per square
11 metre, that would comply with the Regulations, and what the
12 question we are being asked, really, is would that really
13 make a great deal of difference to the bird's ability to
14 move around?
15
16 If we are looking at different climates, the stocking
17 density will progressively come down to, perhaps, a country
18 like Brazil which may only have eight birds per square
19 metre. So, if you look across the world there is a
20 tremendous difference in requirements according to the
21 climate and according to the types of housing. I find it
22 one of the most difficult things to actually establish a
23 level and say this is right and that is wrong. It is a
24 question that constantly I have to look at.
25
26 MS. STEEL: But this is a UK document -- we are not talking
27 about tropical climates -- and this document makes a
28 recommendation. Are you suggesting that mortality rates
29 would increase if you gave the birds more space?
30 A. The mortality rate, what we have found is that it does
31 not change.
32
33 Q. How would behaviour change if you increased the room that
34 the chickens had?
35 A. Well, what I am saying is that I do not believe the
36 difference between 16 or 17 birds per square metre makes a
37 great deal of difference to behaviour. That is what we
38 have found by our own observations.
39
40 Q. They would have more room for movement as you have agreed,
41 otherwise you say it would not affect their behaviour?
42 A. That is correct.
43
44 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You say it does not make a great deal of
45 difference to behaviour, does it make any difference at
46 all?
47 A. No, that we have measured or observed, and there is a
48 great lack of scientific evidence to prove what is right
49 and what wrong. It is all a question of degrees.
50
51 MS. STEEL: We have been through mortality and we have been
52 through behaviour and they do not appear to be reasons why
53 the stocking level should not be reduced, so that only
54 leaves economics?
55 A. Yes.
56
57 Q. So that is the real reason why the stocking density is not
58 reduced?
59 A. Economics are a very important factor, of course.
60
