Day 020 - 28 Jul 94 - Page 16


     
     1        use high currents, which are inevitable for producing a
              cardiac arrest, it is associated with a higher prevalence
     2        of quality problems in the carcass.  I have seen the data
              for that and the data looks to support their conclusion,
     3        their database.
 
     4   Q.   So they are doing it for economic reasons?
              A.  Yes.
     5
         Q.   You say you have seen the data.  Is not this something you
     6        have looked into yourself?
              A.  Yes, using different waveforms and frequencies than
     7        the one used at Sun Valley.
 
     8   Q.   It is possible to ----
              A.  Our findings were that if you go up to and beyond --
     9        sorry, if you start at 130 milliamps and go beyond that,
              you get a significant increase in quality problems in the
    10        carcass.  Their observations, using a different frequency
              and waveform, was that it was at lower currents you get an
    11        increase in quality problems.  Their observations were
              based on a very large number of birds.  Our observations
    12        by comparison were fewer birds.
 
    13   Q.   But they could change the frequency of their current then
              they could, maybe, use a stronger current as a result of
    14        that without risking or without their worries about their
              economic concerns?
    15        A.  I do not know that, whether that is the case.  No, I
              do not know the reason.  I say I do not know because it
    16        depends on what base line you are starting from.  Where
              I say it is beyond 130 milliamps you get an increase, even
    17        at low current levels, you get quite a high prevalence of
              carcass quality defects.  They may be working with a
    18        waveform which intrinsically reduces less damage anyway.
              But we are talking about an increment in current which
    19        causes more damage; that is what we are comparing.
 
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Your 130 was where the graph rises steeply,
              as it were?
    21        A.  That is correct, for that particular waveform, but the
              base line could be -- I will not be surprised, I think it
    22        may well be higher than for their particular waveform.
              That is why they were chosen in the first place.
    23
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Can I put the RSPCA paper away?
    24
         MS. STEEL:   Yes, you can.
    25
         MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, there is one point I would like to make 
    26        about this document we have been looking at.  The RSPCA 
              assert in 1988 that cardiac arrest stunning, if I can put 
    27        it in this shorthand form, does not affect the quality of
              the meat.  They say in their recommendations that there is
    28        ample scientific evidence to show that this procedure in
              no way affects the quality of poultry meat produced.  That
    29        is in 1988.  Dr. Gregory has given evidence to the
              contrary.  Indeed, it does affect the quality of the
    30        meat.  If the defendants are to dispute what Dr. Gregory
              has said, then they must make that clear so he can deal

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