Day 083 - 06 Feb 95 - Page 35


     
     1
     2        My Lord, if the Defendants are to raise an issue in this
     3        case as to the generality of the sources of beef in Brazil
     4        for the Plaintiffs' use, whether via Braslo or anyone else,
     5        then they have to do it by positive averment on proper
     6        grounds, what the Court of Appeal called reasonable grounds
     7        for believing that it is so.  That they do not offer
     8        because they cannot offer.
     9
    10        What your Lordship has called an issue -- I say this
    11        respectfully but with emphatic disagreement -- is not an
    12        issue at all; it is a wishful speculation on the part of
    13        the Defendants.
    14
    15   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Let us suppose you were right about evidence
    16        of Brazilian beef from rainforest or recently ex-rainforest
    17        land.  Can I completely discard at this stage the argument
    18        that if any beef is taken from Brazil it has a carry-on
    19        effect which, arguably, puts pressure on the rainforest?
    20        At the end of the day I might think nothing of that
    21        argument, but can I ask discard it out of hand now?
    22
    23   MR. RAMPTON:  Any beef taken from Brazil?
    24
    25   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, even just 80 tonnes and then, you see,
    26        if there were more than 80 tonnes -- I mean, if the truth
    27        is that your instructions, and you do not have to say yea
    28        or nay, but if truth is that your instructions are that
    29        there has been no other Brazilian beef, I do not why you
    30        just cannot say so and say there is nothing to discover
    31        anyway.
    32
    33   MR. RAMPTON:  But suppose that were not right, suppose it were
    34        the case that over a period of years -- I do not know that
    35        this is so and I do not know that it is not, I have not
    36        looked and I would not look unless ordered to do so --
    37        suppose it were the case that over the last 20 or 30 years
    38        the people in Brazil who supply McDonald's in Brazil and
    39        supplied the 80 tonnes -- no, not those people, Braslo, let
    40        us say; people in Brazil who supply McDonald's in Brazil
    41        which is Braslo, and has been for sometime, I understand,
    42        had also been supplying, let us say, beef to the Pacific
    43        rim countries who do not have any beef their own, let us
    44        suppose that was so, in varying quantities over a period of
    45        years.  Is it really right -- I ask this question -- that
    46        the court will exercise its discretion before the fair
    47        disposal of the case and the saving of costs to order
    48        McDonald's in Brazil, which is the only place where there
    49        is such documentation to be found although, I suppose, it
    50        might be found in Japan or Hong Kong or Singapore, or 
    51        wherever, Indonesia, to discover documents such as 
    52        Mr. Walker was able to find, supposing those documents were 
    53        in the possession of McDonald's rather than their
    54        suppliers, documents relating to such suppliers over, let
    55        us say, a period of 20 or 30 years -----
    56
    57   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I am sorry to interrupt you, but it is so
    58        I can understand the argument.  I understand that you may
    59        have an argument to that effect when we come to production
    60        for inspection, but this is why I raise the Merrett case

Prev Next Index