Day 104 - 15 Mar 95 - Page 71


     
     1        demonstration?
     2        A.  I was.
     3
     4   Q.   What I want to know this:  Can you describe for us, please,
     5        the tenor of her contribution to that conversation?
     6        A.  The conversation started in a friendly manner in which
     7        she was asking for general information which I was trying
     8        to respond to.  After a little while on the phone, she
     9        became much more aggressive and obviously wanted to tell me
    10        her views about the particular situation, so the
    11        conversation became, frankly, unproductive.
    12
    13   Q.   Did she seem by that sage to be interested in what you had
    14        to say or not?
    15        A.  I felt not.
    16
    17   Q.   Penultimately, listeria, Dr. Pattison:  I took you to say
    18        yesterday that, in a sense, it originates in the ground and
    19        in the soil?
    20        A.  Yes.
    21
    22   Q.   Is that right?  You could well find it in vegetables as you
    23        could in chickens or anything else?
    24        A.  Yes, you could.
    25
    26   Q.   Is its presence or growth in vegetable or animals
    27        endogenous or not?
    28        A.  No, the growth on vegetables, for example, would be as
    29        a result of soil contamination.
    30
    31   Q.   So, if I ate a dirty carrot or a piece of chicory or celery
    32        or even lettuce, I might get listeriosis, is that right?
    33        A.  It is unlikely that there would be an infectious dose
    34        in a small amount of soil, but certainly the organism will
    35        be present in soil and you may ingest some listeria
    36        organisms, but unlikely to be sufficient to initiate food
    37        poisoning.
    38
    39   Q.   How would I get it off a chicken, if I did?
    40        A.  It is present on raw chicken.  It is destroyed by
    41        cooking.  If it got on to cooked chicken, it would have to
    42        be as a result of contamination from some other vehicle.
    43
    44   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You say on raw chicken?
    45        A.  It can be present on raw chicken.
    46
    47   MR. RAMPTON:  So its growth in the chicken is not endogenous?
    48        A.  It is not endogenous, no.
    49
    50   Q.   Finally, this, Dr. Pattison:  Again, as with your search 
    51        for a ventral cutter, Ms. Steel was heavily suggesting 
    52        yesterday that you were not much interested in finding 
    53        equipment to reduce or minimise or even prevent entirely
    54        prestun shocks at the stunning bath.  Do you remember that
    55        line of cross-examination ---
    56        A.  Yes, I do.
    57
    58   Q.   -- yesterday?  Can I ask you this, we know that -- at least
    59        I think we do -- that the reduction or minimisation of
    60        prestun shocks is not a legislative requirement; it is

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