Day 091 - 17 Feb 95 - Page 20


     
     1   MR. RAMPTON:  That may be.  May I just raise this suggestion,
     2        that if a case is to be made in relation to these diseases
     3        and their incidence at Sun Valley, which Dr. Pattison might
     4        need to deal with in the sense that it is asserted that he
     5        has some responsibility which he has not discharged, then
     6        it ought to be put at some stage so that he can deal with
     7        it.  If it is merely said that it is incidence of keeping
     8        broilers which nobody who keeps broilers can do anything
     9        about ----
    10
    11   MR. MORRIS:  Mr. Rampton is putting his case for what he
    12        believes our case is, or his defence is, on what the issue
    13        actually is between the parties.  His inference always is
    14        that:  Well, if this is something that happens normally in
    15        the animal or meat production industry, then that is one
    16        thing but basically his case is that that does not reflect
    17        on McDonald's, but if it is something that they
    18        particularly do that causes additional suffering on top of
    19        that, then that is something which we have to prove.  Our
    20        case obviously is that the animal and meat production
    21        industry is inherently causing suffering and cruelty.
    22
    23   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I understand that.  I think that is taken as
    24        read.  The point is this:  You can take it as read that
    25        there is a criticism of rearing animals in which I include
    26        fowl for human consumption.  If you are making a more
    27        specific criticism than that, then you should bring it out
    28        in cross-examination.  For instance, if you are saying:
    29        Right, granted that a lot of people want to eat chicken and
    30        we do have a broiler industry, whatever you think about
    31        that, the animals would be better off in some respect if,
    32        for instance, they were reared in smaller units or in
    33        different kinds of units, or when one comes to disease of
    34        some kind or something which could reasonably have been
    35        done -- an example of where that was put was breed B.  That
    36        was put to Dr. Pattison and he gave his answer to it.  If
    37        there is something which you suggest could and should have
    38        been done to alleviate the position, apart from stopping
    39        the broiler industry full stop, then you should put that to
    40        the witness.
    41
    42   MR. MORRIS:  I think we are doing that as we are going along.
    43
    44   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  In other words, there is a difference between
    45        bringing out evidence that this is a consequence of having
    46        broilers at all, and suggesting that Sun Valley en route to
    47        McDonald's could have done more for animal welfare in a
    48        particular respect.
    49
    50   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, that is exactly the point that I was 
    51        seeking to make in relation to these diseases.  If any 
    52        respect of Sun Valley's operation it is sought to be 
    53        asserted that they are lacking in proper care for their
    54        animals, beyond the fact that they actually have them with
    55        whatever inevitable consequences that may have, then, in my
    56        submission, it must be put.
    57
    58   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think it is highlighted by going through
    59        every single disease, you see.  One approach would just be
    60        to say:  "X per cent of all broilers suffer some kind of

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