Day 197 - 07 Dec 95 - Page 45
1
2 Q. Yes, on 1st August 1987, right?
3 A. If you say so, yes.
4
5 Q. Yesterday you told us this. You were talking about
6 pressure to keep costs down and achieve the targets.
7 Mr. Morris asked you: "Under pressure from who?" You
8 said: "From about ----
9
10 MS. STEEL: Where are we now?
11
12 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, if it would help I do have copies of
13 these pages too.
14
15 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I think you should just put it because it is
16 a bit unreal if one person has got the actual verbatim
17 transcript and no-one else has; no-one can check whether
18 something a little bit different was said just before or
19 just afterwards or anything of that kind which would
20 normally happen. That is not to say you should not put it
21 to the witness: "You said this yesterday" and see if he
22 can remember. But I am a bit uneasy about a transcript
23 which only you or your team have got being used as the
24 basis for it.
25
26 MR. RAMPTON: I cannot help using a transcript for the basis of
27 cross-examination.
28
29 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I am sorry?
30
31 MR. RAMPTON: I am sorry, my Lord, I am not willing not to use
32 the transcript as a basis for cross-examination.
33
34 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I think you should give everyone a copy of
35 the transcript of the evidence well before you do so.
36 I do not resile at all from my power not to order you to
37 give transcripts, but if you are going to use a transcript
38 for cross-examination, I think everyone else, that is,
39 myself and the Defendants should have a copy of it well in
40 advance so that they can familiarise themselves with it.
41 I cannot stop you just saying: "I suggest you put this,
42 that or the other; you said this, that or the other
43 yesterday", but I do not think it is even-handed if you
44 are cross-examining the following day off a transcript
45 which no-one else has got.
46
47 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, I do not understand. Am I supposed not
48 to read it?
49
50 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. Just put it: "I suggest you said this
51 yesterday".
52
53 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, I follow your Lordship. I quite agree.
54
55 MR. JUSTICE BELL: But actually being shown the transcript
56 gives it an authority. It may be unreal but we are in an
57 unreal transcript where you have a transcript and no-one
58 else has. My instinct is that it is just odd that you can
59 read from a transcript which only you have. I mean, might
60 flip forward five pages or back three or back four and
