Day 284 - 22 Oct 96 - Page 35


     
     1        distinguish except in an artificial way.
     2
     3        As we have heard, in terms of indigenous peoples there are
     4        in the so-called Sarado geographic regions, in, for
     5        example, Mattogrosso del Sol, indigenous peoples, that land
     6        belonged to or was the living area for indigenous people to
     7        have been decimated partly, if not mainly, by the cattle
     8        ranching industry.  And that is outside of Amazonia.
     9
    10        So, first of all, I say the strict definition of rainforest
    11        is less important than what is trying to be said in this
    12        section, which in any event we would say has a general
    13        concern for tropical forest, and that is the definition of
    14        the area of concern in the fact sheet - lush green belt of
    15        incredibly beautiful tropical forest.  And if I can say
    16        that what I consider to be the consideration that should be
    17        made is the species-rich nature of the vegetation that has
    18        been destroyed.
    19
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   What it seems to me you are saying is,
    21        despite the use of the word rainforest, if you read all the
    22        relevant parts it is destruction of tropical forest which
    23        is the sting.  Is that fair?
    24
    25   MR. MORRIS:   Yes.  I would say that the word 'rainforest' to me
    26        is interchangeable with tropical forest.  Until this case
    27        when I started, you know, delving heavily into the
    28        scientific definitions.  Apparently, the scientists cannot
    29        even agree amongst themselves on strict scientific
    30        definitions.  We are not talking about a scientific
    31        document given out to scientists, we are talking about-----
    32
    33   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Suppose I disagree with you about that?
    34        Supposing my reaction was different and I thought there was
    35        a specific element in the word 'rainforest', you say,
    36        'Well, however that may be if you actually read what it
    37        says the sting is damage to tropical forest.'  I am not
    38        indicating whether I agree with you or not, but that is
    39        what you say is it?
    40
    41   MR. MORRIS:   Yes.  For example, I think that it was Dr.
    42        Carriere who said that the strict scientifically defined
    43        rainforest in Costa Rica that some scientists define as
    44        rainforest -- and some did not, or whatever -- was not the
    45        most species-rich of the forests.  I think he said the wet
    46        forest was the most species-rich.  We have also heard that
    47        Mr. Cesca, when he had his expert advice before analysing
    48        the vegetation of Costa Rica, was given no distinction
    49        between wet and rainforest.  He made a map in which he
    50        identified a whole section as wet and rainforest.  In terms 
    51        of, on his map -- which was Appendix 1 in this set of 
    52        documents which was in his briefcase -- there were only two 
    53        definitions Costa Rica in terms of humidity, if you like,
    54        there was the dry forest and then there was the rain or wet
    55        forest.  The other forests were defined by whether they
    56        were mountainous or sub-alpine, or whatever.  So even by
    57        Mr. Cesca's own definition, if you like, anything above dry
    58        forest in terms of humidity would be defined as rain or wet
    59        forest.
    60

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