Day 181 - 01 Nov 95 - Page 08


     
     1   MR. MORRIS:  I just -- I did the exercise -----
     2
     3   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The suggestion I have to make is that at some
     4        stage -- it does not necessarily have to be while there is
     5        an employment witness still to come, but you have to give a
     6        bit of thought as to whether it would be an advantage to do
     7        it before an appropriate employment witness is to come --
     8        you have to make a schedule or two, spelling out your
     9        calculation.
    10
    11        What I suggest you might do is look at what I have done,
    12        when it comes.  I hope I will be able to hand copies to
    13        everyone today.  You do not have to do it for everyone in
    14        relation to whom you have relevant documentation, or even a
    15        lot of the people in relation to whom you have
    16        documentation.  But what I think you have to do is do it in
    17        relation to what you think are a number of specimen
    18        people.
    19
    20   MR. MORRIS:  We have not got very many documents.  This is just
    21        one of the documents we have, which -----
    22
    23   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, can I suggest -----
    24
    25   MR. MORRIS:  We have not even checked the overtime rates until
    26        yesterday.
    27
    28   MR. RAMPTON:  Can I suggest one reason why this is a sterile
    29        exercise, particularly with a witness in the witness box:
    30        we do not have the actual rates of pay for these people.
    31
    32   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, we may not.  But what I am saying is, it
    33        may well be that if the calculation is done, a hole can be
    34        shot in it by one side or the other.
    35
    36   MR. RAMPTON:  Quite.
    37
    38   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It may be, for instance, if Mr. Morris does a
    39        calculation of this kind or when mine comes back, one of
    40        your schoolboy howlers will be discovered.  It may be that
    41        if someone on your side does a calculation to show that X,
    42        who was being paid something like 40 pence an hour more
    43        than the minimum, if you work out what they were paid in
    44        the week, that additional 40 pence was enough to make up
    45        any shortfall; and then Mr. Morris or Ms. Steel may be able
    46        to shoot a hole in that.  But that really just demonstrates
    47        what I hope is the good sense of what I am saying, that
    48        some time in advance a number of schedules, probably quite
    49        a limited number, have to be produced so that everyone can
    50        think about them.  I am not saying anything terribly 
    51        bright.  I am just saying it, Mr. Morris, so that you and 
    52        Ms. Steel can appreciate the benefit of ------ 
    53
    54   MR. RAMPTON:  There are hours of innocent fun to be had with the
    55        Bath documents, for example.
    56
    57   MR. MORRIS:  (To the witness): You have heard what has been
    58        said, Mr. Pearson; and I have also calculated that
    59        25 per cent of all the people on these two pages worked
    60        over 40 hours, and 12.5 per cent worked over 45 hours.

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