Day 138 - 20 Jun 95 - Page 47


     
     1        store management tried to persuade employees not to join by
     2        running an anti-union publicity campaign".  Who owned that
     3        store?
     4        A.  Lyon Webber.
     5
     6   Q.   Which is a person or some people?
     7        A.  I am sorry.  It Joe Lyon and Tom Webber.
     8
     9   Q.   Joe Lyon and Tom Webber?
    10        A.  Yes.
    11
    12   Q.   They were, what, franchisees?
    13        A.  Franchisees.
    14
    15   Q.   Did they run, or did you run, an anti-union publicity
    16        campaign?
    17        A.  No.
    18
    19   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Could I just make sure we have the
    20        terminology right.  The owner/operator, that is another way
    21        of saying franchisee, is it?
    22        A.  Yes. My Lord, I use certain terms synonymously.
    23        Owner/operator, franchisee, licensee, those are all
    24        McDonald's shop talk terms.
    25
    26   Q.   But the joint venture partner ----
    27        A.  Is different.
    28
    29   Q.   -- Is another situation where McDonald's has put in just
    30        money and is prepared to give advice?
    31        A.  That is correct, sir.
    32
    33   Q.   And takes a percentage of some kind, does it?
    34        A.  That is correct sir.
    35
    36   MR. RAMPTON:  It says: "The store management tried to persuade
    37        everybody not to join by running an anti-union publicity
    38        campaign and by providing sweeteners for staff, parties,
    39        sports clothes, free meals in large cloakrooms with music".
    40          Mr. Stein, is that true or false, "sweeteners"?
    41        A.  I am not totally sure you what you mean by
    42        "sweeteners".
    43
    44   Q.   I am not either.  This is not my word.
    45        A.  But things like music in a crew room, I mean most, if
    46        not all, of our crew rooms have that.  The fact that we may
    47        do crew events, if that is what they are alluding to, is a
    48        common practice.
    49
    50   Q.   These, I think, Mr. Stein, and his Lordship will tell me if 
    51        I am wrong -- perhaps the Defendants will in due course, 
    52        who knows -- mean bribes, specific bribes to defeat their 
    53        unions?
    54        A.  No, clearly not.
    55
    56   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It may or may not be a bribe.
    57
    58   MR. RAMPTON:  An incentive.
    59
    60   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is treating them rather better than they

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