Day 256 - 04 Jun 96 - Page 70
1 and cancer, is there?
2 A. The reason for that is because the specific effect of
3 fat. Your hypothesis is incorrect. You are starting out
4 with the presumption that, for some reason, fat is
5 basically causing all of these problems at the end of the
6 road (cancer in this case) and all I am saying is that the
7 effect of that is certainly there is a consensus that if it
8 has any effect at all on any particular cancer for any
9 individual it will increase cancer. In other words, the
10 way I just said it, there is a strong consensus for that.
11 Where the disagreement comes in is: How strong is the
12 evidence? How consistent is it and so forth and so on, but
13 there is no dispute on the fact that if it has any effect
14 at all, it will increase cancer.
15
16 Q. Well then there may be not be very much between us.
17
18 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No. Unless I am completely losing my
19 marbles, I thought that this cross-examination started from
20 a statement which I noted, I do not suppose it is word
21 accurate and I was trying to find it, but there was a
22 general consensus of opinion that fat in diet is a cause of
23 cancer. But I thought a moment ago you were saying that it
24 needed a lot of confidence to say that there was
25 causality. I have put this to you because I am anxious in
26 case I have misunderstood your view.
27 A. Perhaps I am not saying it the right way. I am not
28 sure but I do not see anything inconsistent in what I am
29 saying. Adding fat to the diet under conditions where we
30 are actually able to add it, independently of all the other
31 conditions, in experimental animals at least increases
32 cancer risk, period, and there are lots of mechanisms there
33 to show how it is likely to work.
34
35 We then go to humans. We see an association that we cannot
36 decide whether it is causal or not, but we see the same
37 mechanisms in existence. We also see the association in
38 expected direction. What we cannot decide on in the
39 scientific community is how strong is the association,
40 whether it is consistent for every single person in the
41 population, those sorts of issues, so suddenly the water
42 becomes, I guess, a bit murky, if one wants to apply to
43 every single individual in society.
44
45 MR. RAMPTON: That is not quite the same, Professor, with
46 respect, to what you said a moment ago which is something
47 to this effect, that if there is a role for fat in relation
48 to cancer, it is likely to be a causal role, which is
49 rather different; is it not?
50 A. No. I was simply saying that statement, I am not sure
51 I said exactly that, but when I said "that statement" that
52 way I was basically just trying to make a statement that
53 even the critics of the hypothesis might be willing to
54 understand and accept.
55
56 Q. Can we take one last look at this World Health Organisation
57 Report and I want to do one last thing and I promise you
58 will catch your plane tomorrow. Over the page there is an
59 entry under "Intakes of Saturated Fatty Acids" at 4.13; do
60 you see that?
