Day 081 - 31 Jan 95 - Page 36
1 Q. So, with salmonella in chickens, really, it is only the
2 cooking that provides protection?
3 A. Well, the eradication scheme to remove it from flocks
4 is obviously important, so clean, hygienic premises is
5 important to try to reduce the amount. But, at the end of
6 the day, it is the cooking which is the safeguard.
7
8 Q. It is important to avoid cross-contamination as well, like
9 with beef?
10
11 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I have understood that to be part of the
12 hygiene, generally?
13 A. Part of the hygiene to reduce it as much as possible.
14
15 MR. MORRIS: With chicken products, McDonald's, do they blend --
16 did you see or do you know if they blend various, like with
17 the meat they blend into a patty, do they do the same with
18 the chicken products; take various number of birds and
19 blend it into a product?
20 A. Yes, they would have to.
21
22 Q. So the cross-contamination could occur then?
23 A. Yes.
24
25 Q. I think you can put that tab away. Thank you very much.
26
27 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Just pause for a minute. Does what you say
28 really amount to this, that things being as they are at the
29 moment, you have to work on the basis that your chicken
30 tissues may very well contain salmonella?
31 A. That is so at the moment. I think everyone should be
32 aware that there is a potential. There are ways of
33 eradicating it. Irradiation would remove it but people are
34 reluctant to accept radiated birds.
35
36 Q. Things being what they are, you must work on the principle
37 that there may very well be salmonella in any chicken
38 product you propose to eat before you cook it ---
39 A. Yes.
40
41 Q. -- at the point where you take it to the stove, as it were?
42 A. Yes, sir.
43
44 Q. That is why with regard to salmonella cooking is
45 particularly important if you just cannot under any
46 circumstances work on the basis that there is no salmonella
47 in this piece of chicken or this egg before you cook it?
48 A. Yes, sir, it is unwise to do so. The Environmental
49 Health professional bodies and the Ministry of Agriculture
50 do have programmes from time to time, particularly at
51 Christmas time, to ensure that people thoroughly cook their
52 poultry.
53
54 MR. MORRIS: Mr. North seems to have -- we are not sure exactly
55 what he means because we all tried to understand it --
56 about the incidence in live birds being one per cent and in
57 the processed meat 25 per cent of salmonella. Would it be
58 fair to say that the concentration of bacteria, in general,
59 the TVC or the -- what is the other one that you had,
60 I cannot remember what it was -- CFU?
