Day 083 - 06 Feb 95 - Page 25


     
     1        not necessary for the fair disposable of the case or the
     2        saving of costs" which is an entirely separate question.
     3        It saves both expense, trouble -----
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It appears to me, you see -- this is why
     6        I really mentioned the question of power last week, having
     7        thought about it -- that in the past there has been some
     8        debate as to whether it is necessary to actually produce
     9        for inspection a certain class of document, whether it is
    10        necessary for the fair disposal of the case or the saving
    11        of costs, when it occurred to me that some, anyway, of the
    12        categories of documents were not actually in the
    13        possession, control or power of your clients anyway.  So,
    14        whether or not I might appreciate seeing them and whether
    15        or not they might help me to the truth in the action, as a
    16        matter of law, you would not be obliged even to list them.
    17
    18   MR. RAMPTON:  That is the point I am trying to make.  I have
    19        been a long time about it.
    20
    21   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It may be I am just thinking aloud so not
    22        only you can hear but Ms. Steel and Mr. Morris as well.
    23
    24   MR. RAMPTON:  We are, as a party often is, in this difficulty --
    25        I call it a difficulty, it is not really; it is a problem
    26        we have to resolve -- we do not want your Lordship to
    27        decide this case in anything but the most confident way in
    28        the sense your Lordship should, we feel, be confident that
    29        nothing has been hidden.  What we have done is we have
    30        tried to ignore the strict legal position and to try to
    31        produce, so far as is reasonable, the documentary materials
    32        and, indeed, the witnesses that may help your Lordship to
    33        decide this case on a proper footing.
    34
    35        There is, however, a limit.  We are grateful to your
    36        Lordship for having made us, I think it would be fair to
    37        say, look at what the strict legal position was, because
    38        now, if we are right, we know what it is and, where
    39        necessary, we will for the future draw a line.
    40
    41   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I would obviously like to see any document
    42        which may be in existence which may help me to get to the
    43        truth on a relevant issue, but I can only order that which
    44        I have power to order.
    45
    46   MR. RAMPTON:  May I take an example from recent history?  When
    47        Dr. Gomez Gonzales was in the witness box he mentioned a
    48        map of Braslo.  Braslo is not a McDonald's company.  It is
    49        a supplier.  Your Lordship indicated I think at the time --
    50        it may have been one of the Defendants -- that it would be 
    51        nice to see the map.  We have now coloured copies in court 
    52        of what we think is the Braslo map. 
    53
    54        There are two things to be said about that.  As matters
    55        presently stand, the map is irrelevant because it deals
    56        with Braslo sources and not Vesty's sources.  Secondly,
    57        there was no obligation at all to produce it because it is
    58        not a McDonald's document or one over which they have any
    59        power.  If we have been giving out the wrong signals to the
    60        Defendants and they believe that they only have to pull the

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