Day 111 - 30 Mar 95 - Page 50


     
     1        is not necessarily always called A, B, C, D and E; it could
     2        be called 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 and so on.  But those figures,
     3        like, you can see from here that A, for example, is from
     4        one -----
     5
     6   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Let me just ask one or two questions,
     7        Mr. Morris.  (To the witness):  You said 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5
     8        which, in alphabetical terms, would have got us down to E
     9        and then you said "and so on"?
    10        A.  Yes.
    11
    12   Q.   Does that mean that the gradings you are familiar with go
    13        beyond E or beyond 5 or not?
    14        A.  Yes, some do.
    15
    16   Q.   Can you give me any kind of assistance as to what the
    17        gradings mean?
    18        A.  Well, as you probably heard from the previous witnesses
    19        (and I am probably going to have to repeat the same thing),
    20        nobody wants to attach any particular significance to any
    21        of these readings partly because and, in my opinion or my
    22        understanding has always been when I have studied
    23        microbiology and public health ------
    24
    25   Q.   I understand all that, but you should not, you say, use
    26        them to indicate that something is objectively safe or
    27        objectively unsafe?
    28        A.  That is right.
    29
    30   Q.   They are a way of monitoring the amount of care which is
    31        gone into hygiene in the plant.  I understand all that.
    32        The point I am on at the moment, do A, B, C, D and E mean
    33        anything particular to you, or might Bristol Food
    34        Laboratories be using their own grading system with a
    35        specific meaning?  If that is so, say so; whereas if "A"
    36        means excellent, "E" means beyond redemption, then tell me
    37        that, do you understand?
    38        A.  No.  I mean, obviously, I would first look at the
    39        numbers and then say that 7.4 x 10 to the power of 4 is
    40        very poor.
    41
    42   Q.   Right.
    43        A.  Then I see, all right, they use that as an "E", and
    44        then after seeing quite a few figures -----
    45
    46   Q.   So, you get your interpretation of what grade A or B or C
    47        or grade E means from looking at the actual counts?
    48        A.  Yes, of course.
    49
    50   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, Mr. Morris? 
    51 
    52   MS. STEEL:   Before Mr. Morris carries on, Mr. Rampton said that 
    53        there was not any evidence that these documents or these
    54        tests were only done once a month.  I thought that
    55        I remembered asking Mr. Bennett that.  I did, in fact, ask
    56        him that on day 105, page 23, line 57.  He did say they
    57        were done once a month.
    58
    59   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Very well.
    60

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