Day 300 - 14 Nov 96 - Page 14


     
     1        people have different views on.  I can remember one of the
     2        pretrial hearings.  Mr. Justice Drake said something about
     3        that the leaflet made a charge that McDonald's exploit
     4        their workers.  He actually said 'exploit...' -- I cannot
     5        think of the word now -- 'unethically', but not, I cannot
     6        think of the word now.  It is really frustrating.  I cannot
     7        remember the word now.  Anyway, the indication was that, I
     8        don't know, some types of exploitation, there was nothing
     9        wrong with them.  So I don't know, I am just aware that,
    10        you know, a lot of people would see it as a comment.  I
    11        don't really know, to be honest, whether or not it is a
    12        comment or a fact, or both.  I mean, yes, really, it is
    13        both.
    14
    15   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The note I am making is, a lot of people
    16        would see it as a comment, i.e. an expression of opinion.
    17
    18   MS. STEEL:   Yes.
    19
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Just pause again, please.
    21
    22   MS. STEEL:   I just remembered what the phrase was, actually.
    23        It was that 'they exploit', and then he said 'improperly
    24        exploit their workers'.
    25
    26   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I have used the word 'unconscionably'.  But
    27        'improperly exploit'?
    28
    29   MS. STEEL:   Yes.  Which indicated that he thought that you
    30        could be proper and exploit workers, which would not be a
    31        view we share.
    32
    33   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   I think you can, if you were to look up
    34        'exploit' in the dictionary.
    35
    36   MR. RAMPTON:  Certainly you can, you can exploit a coal miner.
    37
    38   MR. MORRIS:   The point is, if it is a view, if it is a comment,
    39        an opinion, if we say, you know, companies exploit workers,
    40        that is something which we think to be a bad thing, and we
    41        are entitled to say it is a bad thing.  The fact that all
    42        companies do it does not take away the fact that we are
    43        entitled to say that companies exploit the workers.
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I don't find it at all as simple as that.
    46        I have to be able to see it as a question as a comment.
    47        All statements of fact, or alleged fact, may be matters of
    48        opinion, because you have to reach some judgment on whether
    49        the material at your disposal justifies you in making the
    50        statement of fact which you make.  So I do not think it
    51        helps just to say, as you have done, "we reasonably believe
    52        that"  or "we are of that opinion"  or "someone might hold
    53        that opinion".  One has to look and see how it is actually
    54        expressed in the article itself.  As I say, if you set out
    55        a number of alleged facts and then say, "Well, for all
    56        these reasons, we think that so and so was a bad employer",
    57        it may be quite clear that it is comment.  But if you just
    58        say "X is a bad employer", query, is it a statement of fact
    59        or a comment?  It is not easy, in my view.
    60

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