Day 020 - 28 Jul 94 - Page 83


     
     1
         Q.   It might be perhaps, as you told us yesterday, they are
     2        not very good fliers?
              A.  I think that has a lot to do with it.
     3
         Q.   Can you give us a rough estimate again for comparative
     4        mortality in the three systems?
              A.  Yes.  Do we wish to compare at best or do we wish to
     5        compare sloppy?
 
     6   Q.   No.  Let us take a well run establishment in both cases?
              A.  I think the mortalities would be comparable.
     7
         Q.   In all three kinds of outfit?
     8        A.  Certainly between free range and battery cages.
              I have asked this very same question to farmers who keep
     9        both systems.  I have come back, been given figures which
              were comparable.
    10
         MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, those are all the questions in
    11        reexamination.
 
    12   THE WITNESS:  Can I rejoin on that?  I did mention, where you
              have an outbreak of cannibalism, I used this as a
    13        rejoinder before, it can be high in the alternative
              system.
    14
         MR. RAMPTON:  Can I ask one thing about that?  Is cannibalism
    15        in any way connected with the good or bad management of
              the establishment, or is it something that happens
    16        spontaneously?
              A.  That is a good question.
    17
         Q.   You always say that when you do not know the answer.
    18        A.  Yes, that is a prelude to it.  It is thought that it
              is intimately associated with stocking density.  The
    19        evidence for that does not exist one way or another.
 
    20   MR. RAMPTON:  Thank you, Dr. Gregory.
 
    21   MS. STEEL:   Can I ask something about that?  When you were
              giving the figure about breakages of bones at 24 per cent
    22        in loose housed, there is actually a wide variety of
              housing that would come under that term, were there not?
    23        A.  That is correct.  In that particular figure I provided
              it was perchery though.  It was a little closer.  But
    24        there are many types of barn systems, but the perchery is
              one type of barn system.
    25
         Q.   In some of those there can be as many as 25 pens in a 
    26        meter squared? 
              A.  Yes. 
    27
         Q.   They are not what you would call your farmyard hen, you
    28        know, they are not like running around at will?
              A.  Let me explain.  There are free range systems
    29        so-called which use the same indoor stocking density as
              the one you quote and they have access to out of doors at
    30        certain times of the day.  I think the system you are
              referring to would be a small scale production unit where

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