Day 311 - 06 Dec 96 - Page 30


     
     1        I am not at all sure that there are any bits of the notes
     2        which were not referred to by one party or the other while
     3        people were in the witness box.
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  There were certainly some parts of the notes
     6        which might be relevant, which the witness was not referred
     7        to.
     8
     9   MR. RAMPTON:  Asked about, yes.
    10
    11   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The next question really is, are there any of
    12        those which you have in mind which you seek to rely on?
    13        I am not suggesting for a moment that they change whatever
    14        picture there is in any way, but if one wanted to search
    15        further and further for matters which might assist one way
    16        or another one could certainly find them in parts of the
    17        notes which will be admissible in evidence by your argument
    18        but which were not actually spoken to by the witness either
    19        in-chief or in cross-examination.
    20
    21   MR. RAMPTON:  Well, I would be likely to answer that -- I have
    22        not got an answer because I have not run the check, but the
    23        list of the passages, the particular passages in the notes
    24        which I rely on, are on pages 15, 16, and 17 of this
    25        section of the submission.  My strong belief is, but we
    26        will check this before we come back as well, that every
    27        single one of those passages was either relied on by me
    28        specifically when they were giving evidence-in-chief or
    29        else they were cross-examined about it.
    30
    31        The only exception to that might be the notes of Frances
    32        Tiller, who was a difficult witness.  They asked her,
    33        I think, about some passages but for perfectly obvious
    34        reasons they ignored the bits which I was keen on.  All
    35        I did so far as she was concerned was to ask her whether
    36        they were her notes -- the Russell problem did not arise,
    37        of course -- whether we could be confident, first, "that
    38        the notes were a more accurate picture of the events than
    39        her recollection in the witness box", answer, "Yes".
    40        Second, "Could we be confident in any event that they were
    41        accurate and reliable".
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I do not see any problem with her because the
    44        answers to those questions of yours, which you were
    45        perfectly entitled to put in cross-examination, meant that
    46        she said -- weight again being another matter -- that what
    47        was in her notes was what happened.  Anywhere in her notes.
    48
    49   MR. RAMPTON:  That is certainly our submission, my Lord, yes.
    50 
    51   MS. STEEL:  Can I just ask about the references on page 15, so 
    52        I can understand them?  After the dates there is, like for 
    53        the first one, 43, 4.  Now, 43 is obviously the
    54        page number.
    55
    56   MR. RAMPTON:  43 to (two) 4, it is used close to the word T-O.
    57        If it were better a line it would be more obvious.
    58
    59   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  I think the final of my-----
    60

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