Day 193 - 28 Nov 95 - Page 24


     
     1
     2   Q.   That is because that is what you told them?
     3        A.  No, that is not what I told them.  I did not.  I did
     4        not tell them this about the buttons.  They told me about
     5        the buttons.
     6
     7   Q.   You had, all along, told people: "Do not let on that you
     8        have signed a card because, if you do, you are likely to be
     9        fired"?
    10        A.  No, that is not what I said.  I said, "If Cam asks you
    11        if you have signed a card, grab a witness; and, if I were
    12        you, I would say, 'Yes, I have signed a card', because that
    13        way if he does fire you and if you have signed a card, the
    14        union will have an easier time fighting for your job back,
    15        because they could say it was because of union involvement,
    16        which is totally illegal for someone to be fired in the
    17        province of Ontario.  If you say, 'No, I have not signed a
    18        card', and he fires you, the union is still going to fight
    19        for your job back, but it is not going to look like
    20        management involvement -- union involvement."
    21
    22   Q.   Swing managers are not managers, are they?
    23        A.  They are and they are not.  They are represented by the
    24        bargaining unit, but they do have managerial duties.  The
    25        only thing that separates them, it is a fine line, is that
    26        they do not hire and that they do not fire.  But they do
    27        have their office with the first assistant managers, and
    28        they do have the ability to comment on crew performance and
    29        contribute, I believe, to performance reviews.
    30
    31   Q.   They are just a higher rank of hourly paid workers, are
    32        they not?
    33        A.  They are -- I believe that they are higher paid, but
    34        they do have more swing in the store.  They are viewed by
    35        the crew as management, like, they are supervisors.
    36
    37   Q.   Am I right that in the Board hearings, the union wanted the
    38        swing managers counted as crew and not as managers?
    39        A.  That is true, because they are represented by the
    40        bargaining unit, because they do not hire or fire.  So it
    41        is law that they have to be in the bargaining unit.
    42
    43   Q.   What about these drawings -- it is the last paragraph on
    44        the same page -- Cam in some kind of Superman suit; is that
    45        right?
    46        A.  Yes.  It was a cartoon of him, you know, those cartoons
    47        that people do on the street of you, and he had like a cape
    48        on.
    49
    50   Q.   Your average intelligent Canadian school student is going 
    51        to be brainwashed by caricatures of Cam in a Superman suit; 
    52        is that the idea? 
    53        A.  I do not know if they would be brainwashed, but he was
    54        not -- in these caricatures, with the facts, just the
    55        facts, Candid Cam, type thing -- he was not giving the
    56        employees all of the facts.  He was reducing this union
    57        attempt to the intelligence of a child.
    58
    59   Q.   Both sides, during the run up to the ballot, both sides
    60        were permitted to put out their own point of view, were

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