Day 130 - 26 May 95 - Page 68


     
     1        the book?
     2        A.  I understand where you are coming from.  That is why it
     3        is important that we monitor -----
     4
     5   Q.   But they are all dangerous occurrences?
     6        A.  That is why it is important that we monitor behaviour
     7        as well, and that is why that central section in the safety
     8        audit is all about, what and how people are working, and
     9        are they following the key procedures that ensure they are
    10        working safely.
    11
    12   MS. STEEL:   The practice of turning burgers with the hands?
    13        A.  They are not turned any more; you do not have to turn
    14        them on a clamshell grill.
    15
    16   Q.   Right.  That practice, when it was widespread, do you think
    17        that is acceptable in terms of both hygiene and safety,
    18        employee safety, that is?
    19        A.  Well, put it this way, it was raised several times by
    20        Environmental Health Officers exactly along the lines that
    21        you are raising it now.  In taking them into the kitchen to
    22        show them exactly how it was done, none of them pursued it
    23        any further than a query.
    24
    25   Q.   But, certainly in terms of workers' safety, if they are
    26        putting their hands right next to the grill, to put their
    27        hand on the burger to flip it over, they are obviously
    28        going to be more at risk of burning their hand?
    29        A.  It is how I started when I was a Trainee Manager.  When
    30        I learnt to work the grill, I learnt it that way.  You
    31        really did not burn your fingers at all in any way by using
    32        your, you know, your fingers involved in turning the meat
    33        or to remove the meat.
    34
    35   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think there was my eye fell on -- there may
    36        be more -- in the Colchester book where someone said he
    37        burnt his fingers on carbon?
    38        A.  Yes, it splashed.
    39
    40   Q.   No, I do not think he said "splashed", he said on carbon,
    41        on turning a patty, so it appeared to me that that might
    42        have been that he burnt his fingers on the top of the
    43        patty.  But whether there is more than that one ---
    44        A.  Well, I doubt that.
    45
    46   Q.   -- over several years, I do not know.
    47        A.  You would not normally have carbon on the top of the
    48        patty; sometimes it builds up on the grill and ---
    49
    50   Q.   I see. 
    51        A.  -- and can spit back. 
    52 
    53   MS. STEEL:  So his hand must have slipped on to the grill?
    54        A.  No, it could just spit -- have spat back.  The grills
    55        are cleaned off and between every run to take off the fat
    56        off the grill, but it could just be that it spat back off
    57        the grill, a piece of carbon.
    58
    59   Q.   So, as far as you are concerned, it is perfectly acceptable
    60        in terms of safety of employees for them to be turning over

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