Day 059 - 01 Dec 94 - Page 33


     
     1   Q.   Why is that?
     2        A.  The infrastructure is not there.  Therefore, all of
     3        those wraps would be imported mostly from Germany --
     4        Germany or France.
     5
     6   Q.   Yes, I see.  Do you know (and again tell us if you do not)
     7        as between making a cardboard box or a flat piece of paper
     8        to wrap a hamburger up in, on the one hand, and making a
     9        polystyrene foam clam shell on the other, which is
    10        technically the more demanding or difficult?
    11        A.  I would say the polystyrene, from what I have seen.
    12
    13   Q.   One other question about Europe.  I mentioned Turkey; they
    14        are listed as using wraps for some part and HCFC-22 for the
    15        Big Mac.  Then in the right-hand column it says:  "Sandwich
    16        foam phase out July 1992 N/P for Big Mac".  Do you know
    17        what letter "N/P" means?
    18
    19   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is at the bottom right-hand corner.
    20
    21   MR. RAMPTON:  Your Lordship is quite right.  I had forgotten
    22        that.  "Not planned".
    23
    24   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  "Phase out not planned"?
    25        A.  Not planned for Big Mac, okay. I can tell you why
    26        they  -----
    27
    28   Q.   I was going to ask you if you knew what the present
    29        position in Turkey was?
    30        A.  Yes, I am familiar with the Turkish supplier, the
    31        polystyrene supplier in Turkey.  They did not have either
    32        the financial ability or the technological ability to
    33        switch out of using HCFC-22 and to go into a hydrocarbon.
    34        They did think their answer would be to use wraps and,
    35        certainly, they tested wraps in their marketplace and
    36        found, for the reasons I said to you earlier, presentation,
    37        heat and freshness, it was not appropriate for their
    38        market.  They went back again to polystyrene.
    39
    40        They now have the financial ability to make the change and,
    41        in fact, in June of this year, and this document is dated
    42        February, but in June of this year they did, in fact,
    43        change to polystyrene foam packaging made from
    44        hydrocarbons.
    45
    46   Q.   They did, did they?
    47        A.  They did.  It is a C02 butane mix.
    48
    49   Q.   I want to ask you finally, while we have this page open in
    50        front of us, about this, that the first column under "Asia 
    51        Pacific" shows that a number of countries in that area of 
    52        the world are using C02 as a blowing agent for their 
    53        polystyrene foam?
    54        A.  Yes.
    55
    56   Q.   That is what this document says?
    57        A.  That is correct, yes.
    58
    59   Q.   Are you conscious of any development in this country
    60        towards the use of carbon dioxide as a blowing agent for

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