Day 105 - 16 Mar 95 - Page 56


     
     1        time.
     2
     3   MR. MORRIS:  He did not comment on the documents; he only
     4        commented on the visits.
     5
     6   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You see, what makes me anxious about this
     7        (and you might bear it in mind as a topic to ask him about
     8        before he goes into the witness box), we had spent an
     9        enormous amount of time going over these TVCs and TCCs to
    10        see whether they are adequate precautions and so on.  It
    11        may have been lack of wit on my part, but for the first
    12        time I have actually heard a witness say they have nothing
    13        to do with food safety when we are talking about food
    14        safety and not food spoilage.
    15
    16        It is not a matter which any other witness has mentioned or
    17        has been put to any other witness.  We spoke about spoilage
    18        bacteria, but I think it is the first suggestion we have
    19        had.  I have checked through Mr. North and there is nothing
    20        about TVCs and TCCs there.  It is occurring to me that, at
    21        the end of the day, when I have heard all the evidence --
    22        I have not even embarked on yours -- on this topic, TVCs
    23        and TCCs may not matter a jot so far as food poisoning is
    24        concerned.
    25
    26   MR. MORRIS:  McDonald's seem to think they matter by raising
    27        them in their defence about their -----
    28
    29   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, but you picked up the gauntlet in a big
    30        way so I was assuming they mattered from your point of view
    31        as well.
    32
    33   MR. MORRIS:  We are happy to pick up that gauntlet.
    34
    35   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is entirely up to you what you ask your
    36        witnesses about.  I think it might be just as well before
    37        you actually start asking Mr. North any questions in-chief
    38        that you get it straight yourself what the position is on
    39        them.  As I have said before, it is not for me -- may I put
    40        it that way -- if I was a barrister standing where you are
    41        on your behalf, I would want to find out just what
    42        Mr. North would say about something like that.
    43
    44   MR. MORRIS:  If they are not relevant, all I can say is that the
    45        meat industry is utterly reckless in making no attempt to
    46        monitor pathological organisms, apart from recent E.coli.
    47
    48   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You say that, let us hear what Mr. North says
    49        about it in due course.  You see, at the moment he does not
    50        say anything about monitoring and the need to monitor, or 
    51        anything of that kind.  I have no idea what, if anything, 
    52        he will say about it when he gets into the witness box.  It 
    53        would be a great irony if he comes into the witness box and
    54        says exactly what Mr. Bennett has just been saying, I just
    55        do not know.
    56
    57        Anyway, I have made the point.  It is up to you whether you
    58        take it up with him before he does go into the witness
    59        box.  Expert witnesses are not just weapons you deploy on
    60        your own behalf.  They are a source of information and

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