Day 130 - 26 May 95 - Page 78
1 exceptions (which I will specify below) this leaflet
2 describes the training programme which was in operation in
3 late 1989 and early 1990".
4
5 Mrs. Barnes, two other things very briefly: You remember
6 the HSE recommendations?
7 A. Yes.
8
9 Q. You remember Mr. Morris suggesting to you that: "Oh,
10 McDonald's only ever does anything for the benefit of its
11 employees' welfare under pressure"?
12 A. I do, yes.
13
14 Q. You do remember that. I remember how you dealt with it so
15 I will not ask you to deal with that suggestion, obviously.
16 What I want to ask you is this: Was there any sense, and
17 I am not talking now about threats of legal action because
18 plainly -- can I ask you this first, it is obvious: There
19 was no legal force in the recommendations of that report,
20 was there?
21 A. No, there were not at all.
22
23 Q. What measures, if any, could the HSE or any other arm of
24 government have taken against you if on seeing those
25 recommendations you had said: "Well, I am sorry that is
26 going to cost too much money; it takes too much time.
27 Forget it, we are not going to do it"?
28 A. I do not believe they could have taken any legal action
29 at all.
30
31 Q. That is not what I am asking. What I am wondering is
32 whether there was any indirect pressure on you to adopt
33 those recommendations?
34 A. There was no -- in fact, in discussion with Andrew
35 Foster, I know that his thinking was that, really, to
36 comply with the recommendations that he had made, he was
37 looking for something like a five-year plan from us and,
38 obviously, we put together a three year plan that we
39 implemented within 18 months, so we certainly went a lot
40 further than he had been expecting.
41
42 Q. I mean there may be more one reason, why did you do it as
43 quickly as that, exceeding both his expectation and your
44 original prediction?
45 A. Well, first of all, we believed that what he had
46 recommended and the document that it was based on,
47 Successful Health and Safety Management, was the way of
48 reducing accidents in our restaurants and further reducing
49 the risk to our employees. So, we just believed it was the
50 right way to go in. So, in doing that we wanted to
51 implement it as quickly as we practically could.
52
53 Q. Were you afraid that somebody would lean on you if you did
54 not do it all, as it were, as soon as you had thought of
55 it?
56 A. Well, no. As I say, I know from speaking to Andrew he
57 was looking at a lot longer time-scale than we said we
58 would meet.
59
60 Q. One final thing, Mrs. Barnes, I do not know because I have
