Day 103 - 14 Mar 95 - Page 37
1 A. Yes.
2
3 Q. -- "thorough cooking of food will kill most but not all
4 listeria"?
5 A. Right.
6
7 Q. Would you accept that?
8 A. No, I do not agree with that.
9
10 Q. You disagree with that?
11 A. But I mean -----
12
13 Q. Would you agree that ----
14
15 MR. RAMPTON: He was about to say something.
16
17 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, he was. Just let him finish and then
18 ask your question.
19
20 THE WITNESS: They are talking about here that chilled or
21 refrigerated food must be heated until piping hot
22 throughout 70 degrees for two minutes. The actual
23 definition of cooking in MAFF regulations is 70 degrees for
24 two minutes. Now, if that is carried out that will kill
25 bacteria.
26
27 MS. STEEL: But it would need to be cooked at that temperature
28 for two minutes in order to do that?
29 A. Yes, I would be very surprised if that did not kill
30 listeria.
31
32 Q. "Throughout" would be throughout the meat itself?
33 A. Of course.
34
35 Q. So the meat itself has to be at 70 degrees Centigrade for
36 two minutes?
37 A. Yes.
38
39 Q. Just while you have the other paper there: "The occurrence
40 in the UK of listeria species in raw chickens and soft
41 cheeses"?
42 A. Yes.
43
44 Q. You see the abstract at the beginning?
45 A. Yes.
46
47 Q. "60 per cent of raw chickens were contaminated with
48 listeria monocytogenes"?
49 A. Yes.
50
51 Q. You would accept that?
52 A. Yes.
53
54 Q. Do you feel that it is inevitable there is going to be
55 listeria in the chickens; is that why you do not -- you do
56 not feel it is worth testing for because there is nothing
57 you can do about it?
58 A. No, listeria is a soil-borne organism.
59
60 Q. Yes, but do you feel there is nothing you can do about it;
