Day 147 - 04 Jul 95 - Page 26


     
     1   MR. MORRIS:  Not at all.  I am responding to Mr. Rampton's
     2        statements he made yesterday and he made again today,
     3        attacking the Defendants' integrity.  If he wants to do
     4        that, then we have a right to explain our understanding of
     5        the situation.  The problem seems to be for McDonald's,
     6        they should encourage their witnesses not to make
     7        admissions helpful to the Defendants, and then -----
     8
     9   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I only really want an argument which will
    10        help me to the right conclusion about this, quite frankly.
    11        We have not got past the question of transcripts and
    12        CaseView.  What I do want you to do is respond to what
    13        Mr. Rampton has said, because if you are talking about
    14        fairness, one of the things I have to ask myself -- you are
    15        saying how unfair it would be that you will not have a
    16        transcript so that you can check it, and you will not have
    17        a verbatim account of all the evidence to remind you of it
    18        when you come to final speeches.  You could have all that
    19        if you accepted McDonald's offer, as I interpret it to be,
    20        to provide you with a transcript, provided you undertake
    21        not to show it to anyone else.  You would then have a
    22        transcript, so that you could look back at the evidence and
    23        think about the cross-examination; you would have a
    24        transcript to help you with your final speeches.
    25
    26        All McDonald's are saying is:  "If you want us to pay for
    27        it, you must promise not to show it to someone else." You
    28        can have it there in your hand, as far as I am aware, when
    29        you talk to your McKenzie Friend.  I have, from time to
    30        time, suggested that when you take advice you show any
    31        McKenzie Friend what I have said, because on occasions when
    32        there has been a matter of law I have done my best to put
    33        the arguments on both sides, so you could show it to the
    34        McKenzie Friend who might then be able to advise you.  For
    35        all I know, in the future, Mr. Rampton would say:  "Yes, we
    36        do not mind you showing that to a McKenzie Friend, what the
    37        judge has said."
    38
    39   MS. STEEL:  This trial is in the public arena.  This is
    40        rapidly -- well, it has turned into a matter of
    41        censorship.  There is no reason why people should not be
    42        able to find out what is going on in these proceedings.
    43        Copyright applies to making copies to distribute to people,
    44        hand to other people.  If people ask us what has gone on in
    45        court, there is absolutely no reason why we should not be
    46        able to tell them an accurate account of what was said.
    47
    48   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  I do not think anyone is disputing
    49        that.
    50 
    51   MS. STEEL:  Then what is the problem?  We have already said we 
    52        are not making copies and handing them to other people, 
    53        apart from witnesses and legal advisers.
    54
    55   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I cannot be judge and mediator when you and
    56        McDonald's have a difference about things.  I have tried to
    57        help in the past by mediating.  It is not part of my
    58        function in this court.  From time to time, I have chosen
    59        to do it, in the hope that the proceedings will continue.
    60

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