Day 157 - 18 Jul 95 - Page 25


     
     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause a moment.  Yes?
     2
     3   MR. MORRIS:  And there should be CaseView and transcripts, and
     4        that a copy be made available of any facility which the
     5        Plaintiffs benefit from.  It would be at no cost because we
     6        are quite happy to photocopy transcripts ourselves at no
     7        cost to public funds or to McDonald's Corporation.  We will
     8        return them the copy of the transcript if they so wish.
     9
    10        Moving on to costs from public funds, and we have made an
    11        application to the Lord Chancellor to this effect, which
    12        maybe we will bring that up specifically a bit later.  If
    13        I can take the court to Order 62, rule 3, which is page
    14        1047 in the White Book, "Entitlement to Costs".  If we look
    15        over the page 3(3):
    16
    17             "If the Court in the exercise of its discretion
    18             sees fit to make any order as to the costs of
    19             any proceedings, the Court shall order the costs
    20             to follow the event, except when it appears to
    21             the Court that in the circumstances of the case
    22             some other order should be made as to the whole
    23             or any part of the costs."
    24
    25        Then there is a section about taxation.  We would argue
    26        that this means that order for costs which, at the end of a
    27        trial, normally would happen at the end of the trial and
    28        litigants in person or impecunious Defendants, such as
    29        ourselves, the costs can be paid out of the public funds or
    30        by, in this case, the Plaintiff, the other party; but that
    31        that discretion of the court can be exercised at any time,
    32        not just at the end of a trial, which is the effect of the
    33        rule 3(3).  It is a totally unfettered discretion.
    34
    35   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  But it refers to costs already incurred.
    36
    37   MR. MORRIS:  Does that mean that if we paid for -- well, it may
    38        be an indication can be given if that is the case, that if
    39        we incur costs, for example, on paying for transcripts,
    40        that that cost will be paid out of public funds.
    41
    42   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Well, no.  A time might come when you could
    43        apply for the costs you have incurred to be paid by the
    44        other side and then the appropriate tribunal, be it me or
    45        anyone else, would decide whether you should have those
    46        costs.  If the payment of costs out of public funds, you
    47        need to look at the powers which are set out.  There are
    48        innumerable cases of the Divisional Court, the Court of
    49        Appeal, the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) and judges
    50        at first instance as to the circumstances in which costs 
    51        can be paid out of public funds. 
    52 
    53   MR. MORRIS:  Well, my understanding of rule 3(3) is that there
    54        is no limitation on the exercise of discretion regarding
    55        the costs of any proceedings, either at the end or during
    56        the proceedings.
    57
    58   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It does not refer to costs paid out of public
    59        funds there.  Costs cannot follow the event and be paid out
    60        of public funds because the State is not a party to the

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