Day 157 - 18 Jul 95 - Page 20


     
     1        would mean that we should be provided with a copy of a
     2        transcript in any event, but if we go to some specific
     3        powers, if we can go to the White Book, Ord. 24, rs. 11 to
     4        13, which is page 465 -----
     5
     6   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You are going on to discovery now, are you?
     7
     8   MR. MORRIS:  This is the first of the points.
     9
    10   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  If you are going on to discovery, you have to
    11        go back a bit, have you not?  Quite frankly, I would much
    12        rather you came to discovery as a separate matter because
    13        that is of -----
    14
    15   MR. MORRIS:  I can do that one last, if you like, then.
    16
    17   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is a matter for you, but I did not think
    18        you were on the discovery point at the moment.
    19
    20   MR. MORRIS:  No, they are not in the best order.
    21
    22   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Because before discovery comes in you have
    23         -- you may or may not get to it before the break -- to
    24        bear in mind what appears at 24.25 at page 437.  I do not
    25        think you were on that point at all.  It may be that,
    26        I have not heard the argument obviously, before transcripts
    27        could be subject of discovery, they would have to in the
    28        context of this case amount to documents which contain
    29        information which may enable you either to advance your own
    30        case or to damage that of your adversary.  You will
    31        remember Mr. Rampton reading that the other day?
    32
    33   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.
    34
    35   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Or at least fairly lead you to a train of
    36        enquiry which may have either of these two consequences,
    37        and what I put to you when we were arguing it the other day
    38        was that the transcript does not do that, it is the actual
    39        evidence which does that.  There have been recent cases
    40        where transcripts have been admitted in evidence.  I think
    41        there was one not so long ago where a transcript of a
    42        judge's summing up was admitted as evidence of something
    43        which had actually been said in the trial of which there
    44        was no other available evidence and where there was an
    45        issue about it, but all I say is at the moment, as I have
    46        said in my ruling of 4th July, I do not see transcripts
    47        falling into that category.
    48
    49        So what I suggest you do is come back to that as a separate
    50        issue under discovery and stick to any power I have, apart 
    51        from under Ord. 24, to provide you with funds or to order 
    52        McDonald's to take a certain course. 
    53
    54   MR. MORRIS:  Certainly, on that last point, if we are unable to
    55        take effective notes which, we would submit, that must be
    56        true -- I have submitted my notes from last Friday as
    57        evidence of that -- then the transcripts would fall into
    58        the category of documents which would help us to advance or
    59        to damage the Plaintiffs' case.  If we did not have them,
    60        of course, then specially they, therefore, become

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