Day 111 - 30 Mar 95 - Page 56


     
     1        circulation around the carcasses in the trucks.  It would
     2        be dangerous to have loose carcasses hanging in the
     3        trucks.  That is why you have to make sure that the
     4        temperatures are right before you arrive with the meat.
     5
     6   MR. MORRIS:  So one of the problems with the octibins is that if
     7        it chills it may just be the outside that chills?
     8        A.  Yes.
     9
    10   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  As I understand it, what you are saying is,
    11        I suppose, if you put the octibin in the chiller for long
    12        enough the raw meat in the heart will chill too, but since
    13        it is not well-aerated, what you are saying is it would
    14        take a very long time?
    15        A.  Very long time and meanwhile you might have spoilage
    16        already.
    17
    18   Q.   If you just took the temperature of the meat towards the
    19        outside, that would not give you an indication of what was
    20        going on in the middle.  As you said, you would, in any
    21        event, get some spoilage, you might well get some
    22        proliferation of bacteria, might include pathogens over the
    23        period of time that meat in the middle is still at a
    24        temperature where pathogens can proliferate?
    25        A.  That is right.
    26
    27   MR. MORRIS:  Finally, on the subject of your dismissal, you have
    28        put quite a bit in your statement which has been taken as
    29        read in any event.
    30
    31   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, I have read that.
    32
    33   MR. MORRIS:  Could you just summarise in very short terms what
    34        the problem was and why you were sacked?  Then I will ask
    35        you a couple of questions about that.
    36        A.  Well, as far as I know, there was no indication of me
    37        being dismissed until the afternoon of 29th April.  It was
    38        a Friday afternoon about 4 o'clock my employer, Robert
    39        Jones, phoned me and said they could not, they felt that if
    40        I stayed on they would lose their contract and they could
    41        not possibly afford to do that, so they would let me go.
    42        Those were his words, more or less.
    43
    44        After that, I asked him obviously:  "Why is this?" and he
    45        said that the Council has threatened to cancel their
    46        contract unless I go and, obviously, I wanted to know what
    47        it was, why they wanted me to go, and he said:  "Because
    48        you have dealt with sensitive subjects".
    49
    50   Q.   Which were? 
    51        A.  I asked immediately what are the sensitive subjects, 
    52        and he said:  "The carcass temperatures and the BSE 
    53        certification".  I do admit that those had been very
    54        seriously discussed with the management of the plant,
    55        between the management of the plant with me, that last week
    56        of my employment.  They were both very serious matters.
    57        I had already made concessions to the management as far as
    58        the carcass temperatures were concerned.  We had made
    59        concerted efforts actually to move carcasses to the sheep
    60        chiller that at the moment was empty since we were not

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