Day 124 - 10 May 95 - Page 17


     
     1        Again I did not have responsibility for that area.
     2
     3   Q.   No.  Presumably you remember the controversy over the use
     4        of lie detector tests around 1973, 74?
     5        A.  I recall that the use of lie detectors became an issue,
     6        and that it became illegal to use the test for employment,
     7        or to ask employees, current employees, to submit to lie
     8        detector tests, absolutely.
     9
    10   Q.   At that time these tests were used, were they standard?
    11        I mean, were they used in all stores, or were they just
    12        used in different regions at different times, or what?
    13        A.  It was not used in all stores.  Some franchisees felt
    14        it helpful to make use of lie detector tests; some Company
    15        operations, Company stores used it.  As a store manager
    16        I have used lie detector tests, and then when it became,
    17        when it was obvious that the law was going to be passed,
    18        making it illegal, we, as a policy, forbid the use of it.
    19
    20   Q.   Before that time it was used on both existing employees and
    21        during recruitment interviews; is that correct?
    22        A.  On some recruitment interviews, and, primarily, with
    23        managers, management candidates.
    24
    25   Q.   But all I am trying to say is it was used both, in some
    26        circumstances, for recruitment, in interviews, but also for
    27        existing employees as well?
    28        A.  Existing employees and basically for management
    29        recruits.
    30
    31   Q.   But also for other employees?
    32        A.  Existing employees, yes.
    33
    34   Q.   Yes, but sorry, I mean, also for some crew people
    35        were -----
    36
    37   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Was it used in interviews of potential crew
    38        members?
    39        A.  Rarely.  Maybe some franchisees chose to do so.  In the
    40        60s it was fairly inexpensive.  Some franchisees chose to
    41        use it as a means of checking out whether or not employees
    42        were, you know, had a past history of dishonesty.
    43
    44   MR. MORRIS:  Are you aware that there was this controversy
    45        centred around testimony to San Francisco's Deputy Labour
    46        Commissioner, Brian Seal?  That is where the thing became a
    47        public controversy in San Francisco?
    48        A.  No, I do not have any recollection of that.
    49
    50   Q.   Are you aware that former McDonald's employees had 
    51        testified to the authorities on the use of lie detector 
    52        tests and that they were asked about union sympathies, 
    53        about dishonesty, and, basically, refusing to take a test
    54        was grounds for dismissal?
    55        A.  I am not aware of that.  I do not have any recollection
    56        of that, no.
    57
    58   Q.   But, whether you remember that they testified that, would
    59        that be roughly summing-up the situation of the use of lie
    60        detector tests?

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