Day 018 - 26 Jul 94 - Page 80


     
     1        A.  Before they used to have a 13-bird water bath.  Now
              I think it is an 8-bird bath water. That is the number of
     2        birds that are stunned in the bath at any one time.  They
              still use the same -----
     3
         Q.   Can you identify the improvement that has led to?
     4        A.  I am just talking about changes, so you are having to
              get me to think on my hind feet.
     5
         Q.   Sorry.
     6        A.  I am having problems in identifying specific
              improvements in terms of over the past 10 years.  In the
     7        case of Sun Valley you are asking me for something which
              is very difficult because, you know, I cannot clearly
     8        picture what they were doing 10 years ago.  So, I think it
              is almost an impossible question for me to answer.  Can I
     9        suggest you ask Mark Pattison?
 
    10   MR. RAMPTON:  I am just looking to see, for example, in
              relation -- obviously in relation to Bowes and Midland
    11        Meat Packers Dr. Gregory cannot answer any questions, but
              I notice Dr. Pattison who is coming to give evidence for
    12        Sun Valley has worked there for 11 years.  I wonder
              whether he is not the right person to ask that question.
    13
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It may be.  If you can think of any now --
    14        obviously if someone actually comes from the particular
              concern they can be asked, and if it is within their
    15        experience they can give an answer.  What you being asked
              is whether you can think of any specific ones from your
    16        knowledge and experience.  One way of doing it might be to
              pause for a moment and think through some of the topics
    17        you were asked about by Mr. Rampton and see if that
              triggers your memory in any way.
    18        A.  While you were mentioning that one did just do that.
              This is reports from the company.  It is not measurements
    19        made by ourselves.  In one of the reports you have I think
              you will find that the birds were receiving about
    20        approximately 16 milliamps each with the present stunner.
              I remember talking to one of their personnel, Dr. Parry,
    21        and he was saying their stunning was approximately 25
              milliamps per bird.  That was a long time ago.  He has
    22        ceased by employed by that company a long time ago.  That
              is approximate.  Do not quote me on absolute figures.  I
    23        think they have increased their stunning current, but I am
              not confident.
    24
         MR. MORRIS:  That would be a definite improvement?
    25        A.  If they have increased their stunning current, yes,
              absolutely. 
    26 
         Q.   That was Sun Valley? 
    27        A.  Another one comes to my mind, and that is one which
              has occurred within this year. That is they have changed
    28        to a ventral neck cutter from a back-of-the-neck cutter.
 
    29   Q.   Since you wrote your report?
              A.  I did make a recommendation that they consider this as
    30        an option.  In the code of practice it suggests that they
              either cardiac arrest or if they do not cardiac arrest

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