Day 105 - 16 Mar 95 - Page 30
1
2 Q. So are you saying that these swab tests, they seem to be
3 monthly, is that your understanding?
4 A. Yes, that is my understanding of it.
5
6 Q. They are done monthly?
7 A. Yes.
8
9 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Could you just pause a moment? Yes?
10
11 MR. MORRIS: Are you saying that the grading system used for the
12 monthly swab tests, all the grades that they choose to give
13 a range of, they have not -----
14
15 MR. JUSTICE BELL: What you are saying is that none of the
16 grades denote to you a risk?
17 A. Indeed.
18
19 Q. And you are not just working on the grades, you are
20 actually looking at the counts which are there?
21 A. Yes.
22
23 Q. That contamination, cross-contamination, increases in
24 counts, and counts at the end of the day are all relative,
25 and you cannot infer any lack of safety from a fact of
26 contamination, from a fact of cross-contamination, from a
27 fact of increasing count. What you have to do is look at
28 the counts to see whether there is a risk and, if so, how
29 great it is. Is that, in summary, your position?
30 A. Yes.
31
32 MS. STEEL: What would be the difference in action taken by the
33 company depending on the different grade?
34 A. Within the band of grades we are discussing, which are
35 not into the territory of public health risk, the only
36 grade which is frequent and recurring which will call
37 attention to itself at all would be the "E" grade, because
38 it does give an indication that it is a situation to keep
39 an eye on. The action taken would be, as I have said, to
40 bring this matter to the attention of the people
41 responsible.
42
43 Q. And to seek some kind of improvement?
44 A. I would say, rather, to make sure that it does not go
45 beyond that point, because objectively looking at the
46 count, and the ones we have before us, which, obviously,
47 have not been selected to present a particularly good or
48 bad picture either way. There is only one count, the
49 actual measurement itself, there is only one of them that I
50 have referred to which even comes into the mid range of a
51 customer specification. In other words, half a million
52 organisms per gramme on meat. That is still acceptable,
53 but that is way, way above any of the other counts that are
54 shown within the grades.
55
56 I can only repeat that the grades are all within -- they
57 are not assessing the suitability of the meat or the safety
58 of it; they are merely giving an indication of the
59 efficiency of, on the one hand, the cleaning programmes,
60 which have not been called into question, so far as I know,
