Day 091 - 17 Feb 95 - Page 43
1 MR. MORRIS: After that the witness was asked: "But that is the
2 view" -- it being carcinogenic -- "of the various bodies
3 that have banned its use for animals in forming part of the
4 human chain". Answer: "Yes".
5
6 MR. JUSTICE BELL: This is a completely arid argument because if
7 we were arguing about this in October of this year when
8 Dr. Pattison was nowhere near the court, we might be
9 reduced to having this argument. Happily, he is in the
10 witness box and can be asked any further questions and make
11 quite clear what his evidence is.
12
13 MS. STEEL: The thing is that he has already said that it is not
14 his view it has been demonstrated as a residue in meat, but
15 if he accepts that the World Health Organisation -----
16
17 MR. JUSTICE BELL: If you will not ask him, I will. Answer
18 "Yes" or "No" and then we are quite clear. Do you accept
19 that it is carcinogenic?
20 A. I accept the studies that have been carried out by the
21 various USDA authorities which have shown that the compound
22 can be carcinogenic in a toxicity studies in rats in a
23 laboratory and that is the basis for the claims of its
24 carcinogenicity. That is the reason why the question mark
25 has been raised against the drug.
26
27 The drug itself has been used in the animal industry for 30
28 years, So, as far as I know, there is no evidence to prove
29 that it has any carcinogenic effects as a result of getting
30 into meat which then gets into the human food chain.
31
32 MS. STEEL: Of course, you are not a -----
33
34 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Just pause a moment, please. Yes?
35
36 MS. STEEL: You are not an expert on cancer though, are you?
37 A. No, I am expressing my own opinion.
38
39 MS. STEEL: Can I just say that that is the reason why I really
40 feel that if the witness accepts that was the reason for
41 these bodies banning it, then whether or not he feels that
42 is acceptable, if that is not his area of expertise, I do
43 not understand how it is particularly relevant.
44
45 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You asked him a question and he gave an
46 answer. I do not know at the end of the day just what
47 evidence I will have on this topic. That is an argument
48 you can put to me in due course, but I need to know what
49 the witnesses are telling me.
50
51 If you call a witness in due course who says something
52 different, I want to know what Dr. Pattison says about it.
53 If you do call such a witness, you may well have an
54 argument that he or she is more of an expert and I shall
55 attach more weight to their evidence. But I do not know,
56 I have not got to that stage yet. I am keeping an open
57 mind. I need to know what this witness has said about a
58 subject which you have put to him in cross-examination.
59
60 MS. STEEL: Do you think that the World Health Organisation and
