Day 286 - 24 Oct 96 - Page 18


     
     1        route as it was opened up for cattle ranching.
     2
     3        And she said in terms of -- she remembered it was the
     4        Bordon trucks going down to Campo Grande that she
     5        personally saw - on page 5 - forest being cut down by
     6        Bordon employees and gathered evidence from peasant
     7        families that they had been forcibly evicted from their
     8        plots by Bordon employees.  This was in Acre.  So she
     9        seemed to have had quite extensive experience and research
    10        on this subject.
    11
    12        I think I have nearly finished Sue Branford's evidence.  I
    13        will not go into Mr. Monbiot's evidence, partly because it
    14        is very, very clear and his statements were very, very
    15        clear as well.  So ----
    16
    17   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do not ----
    18
    19   MR. MORRIS:  ---- if you going to look at that, I do not need to
    20        really go through it.
    21
    22   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No.
    23
    24   MR. MORRIS:   I know that he did go further in his evidence.
    25
    26        As regards Fiona Watson, again I think the picture is very
    27        clear.  And her view was backed up by Sue Branford who
    28        concluded it was impossible for -- Sue Branford, as you
    29        will notice when you go through, included the conclusion
    30        that it was impossible to be buying beef in Mato Grosso do
    31        Sul without buying from land that belongs to indigenous
    32        peoples.
    33
    34   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  There is just one matter - you need not take
    35        long about it - that you might help me on there.  It is
    36        quite clear that many of these indigenous people live
    37        largely from hunting and fishing and they did that over a
    38        vast area and quite a few people would cover a very large
    39        area.  Does that mean that you cannot develop any part of
    40        that large area because it is said to be occupied by those
    41        indigenous peoples, or would you not go as far as that?
    42
    43   MR. MORRIS:   Well, I mean, partly it is a bad thing to be
    44        destroying natural vegetation.
    45
    46   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It has nothing to do with that at the
    47        moment.  It is just the displacement of indigenous people.
    48        If you have got maybe a few hundred people who habitually
    49        wander over thousands of square miles catching what they
    50        can, do you say it is displacement if you take any part of 
    51        it, or is it more focused than that? 
    52 
    53   MR. MORRIS:   I think that part, if not the major problem with
    54        the colonisation of indigenous people's areas, is that the
    55        colonisation has the character of being a destructive one.
    56        If people were respecting the environment and the forest
    57        habitats, then there would not be the same kind of
    58        devastation of the indigenous people's culture and
    59        livelihood, so it is taken on ----
    60

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