Day 105 - 16 Mar 95 - Page 11
1 safety"?
2 A. Thank you.
3
4 MR. MORRIS: Is it succeeding in improving food safety, the
5 introduction of HACCP systems?
6 A. Measurements of food safety which, in my opinion, can
7 only objectively be arrived at, would be by counting the
8 number of food poisoning cases which occur as reported.
9 The discussions on the introduction of HACCP, and the HACCP
10 that has already been introduced for commercial reasons,
11 have not been going long enough to come to any conclusions
12 at the moment. The numbers are to begin with, in
13 epidemiological terms -- I repeat -- quite small. So, I
14 could not say whether HACCP has a health control measure,
15 which has not yet been introduced, has had any effect or
16 not on the incidence of food poisoning.
17
18 Q. But it does allow companies to demonstrate due diligence?
19 A. It allows them to demonstrate due diligence in respect
20 of possible offences under the Food Safety Act, and food
21 poisoning is not one of those.
22
23 Q. Food poisoning is not one of them?
24 A. As such, causing food poisoning in itself is not an
25 offence as laid down.
26
27 MR. JUSTICE BELL: We have been through this this very morning.
28
29 MR. MORRIS: So, if you sell under-cooked meat, and certainly
30 plead due diligence, you cannot be found guilty, but if you
31 sell undercooked meat -----
32
33 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No, that is just wrong. If you plead due
34 diligence, the magistrates have to decide whether, on the
35 balance of probabilities, you have proved it. If you do,
36 you will end up being found not guilty; if you do not, you
37 will end up being found guilty.
38
39 MR. MORRIS: The HACCP has the control points to deal with
40 temperature?
41 A. Yes.
42
43 Q. They deal with specific physical places in a line?
44 A. Yes.
45
46 Q. Do they deal with the speed of the line as well?
47 A. If it were to be the case that speed was essential, it
48 might well. It would be a question of fact on the analysis
49 of the hazards presented by the process.
50
51 Q. When you introduced the HACCP at Jarretts, did you set a
52 limit on the speed of the line or in the number of
53 carcasses -----
54
55 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No. You are actually looking at it from
56 opposite sides of the coin. Mr. Morris is not concerned
57 with speed being essential. I surmise he is concerned with
58 speed leading to lapses which might lead to -----
59 A. I fully understand that, my Lord. I fully understand
60 the point.
