Day 192 - 27 Nov 95 - Page 34
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2 MR. JUSTICE BELL: What is the relevance of what this witness or
3 another person there thinks about whether under-18s should
4 be able to join a union?
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6 MS. STEEL: Because the Plaintiffs are saying that it is a
7 legitimate tactic to advance this as a legal argument to
8 prevent unionisation in the store. Therefore, it is
9 relevant what the witness feels about whether, aged under
10 18, she is able to make up her mind or not about whether
11 she -----
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13 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I do not think a witness is going to help me
14 on this. If I ask the three of my children who have got
15 past the age of 18 whether they should be allowed to join a
16 union, they would say, "Yes, of course I should. I should
17 be allowed to do what I want, so far as that is concerned."
18 Where that takes me, I do not know. It may be a matter for
19 argument. But it does not help, quite frankly, to ask what
20 a particular witness thinks in relation to that.
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22 So far as the hearing is concerned, the matters which may
23 have some significance seem to me the suggestion which
24 Miss Inglis has made in her statement that Mr. Ballantyne
25 paid witnesses $102 a day to give evidence; the suggestion
26 you have made that he subpoenaed people, when there was no
27 need to, in order to be able to pay them $102 Canadian a
28 day; and, thirdly, that those who represented
29 Mr. Ballantyne or his company prolonged the evidence of the
30 people who were called, in order to pay them more days'
31 worth at $102.
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33 At the end of the day, the union and Mr. Ballantyne's
34 company reached an accommodation which resulted in a secret
35 ballot; and I am not going to read here arguments to and
36 fro, which the parties no doubt sensibly resolved by
37 reaching that agreement. But I am interested in those
38 matters or, rather, I see them as being relevant; and
39 I will have to weigh the extent to which they help me
40 towards a decision. But I do not want to go into all the
41 ins and outs of the Labour Court hearing.
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43 MR. MORRIS: I certainly was not intending to go into the ins
44 and outs.
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46 (To the witness): You said he paid his witnesses a $102 a
47 day. Can you just explain this situation about the payment
48 and what you know about that?
49 A. I do not know for sure, but I believe, in Canada, that
50 people are -- at least, in Ontario -- you have to be
51 subpoenaed to go to court, because I was even served wit a
52 subpoena; and people are supposed to pay for your
53 travelling experiences, and such. The way I understand it
54 is that -----
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56 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Why do you understand they have to be
57 subpoenaed?
58 A. Because I had to be subpoenaed, and I would have done
59 it voluntarily, and I was given travelling expenses.
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