Day 079 - 27 Jan 95 - Page 18
1
2 Q. Since in something like this, belt and braces are
3 justified, you get a look at both ends of the matter?
4 A. We do everything we can, sir.
5
6 Q. Right. All that Ms. Steel was taking, as it were, as read
7 when she asked the question whether you think you ought to
8 have known of an outbreak, if there was one, in either
9 Oregon or Michigan in 1982.
10 A. My Lord, I know of outbreaks in the United States of
11 America but I do not -- I have no knowledge of any in
12 McDonald's. I know of an outbreak of E.coli in America
13 which was associated with unpasteurised cider. The
14 question I was asked, concerning McDonald's, I do not know
15 of any specific outbreak of E.coli connected with
16 McDonald's in the United States of America. I know of an
17 outbreak of E.coli in well-water and, as a matter of fact,
18 I think that was Oregon, but I was not going to say it
19 because this document infers it was McDonald's.
20
21 MR. JUSTICE BELL: The question was just whether you -- I want
22 to make it more general: So you knew something about some
23 outbreak in Oregon?
24 A. Yes, my Lord.
25
26 MS. STEEL: That was meat, was it, meat patties, the one you had
27 heard about in Oregon?
28 A. No. The one I heard about in Oregon was well-water.
29 The other one I have heard about was in unpasteurised
30 cider. The United States Department of Agriculture did an
31 investigation right back to cattle eating in the orchard
32 where the apples were picked from. But that is the sort of
33 thing that we have to do technically, is keep up-to-date.
34
35 Q. If this outbreak of food poisoning did occur in 1982 and it
36 involved McDonald's, do you think that you ought to have
37 been made aware of it so that you were aware of the dangers
38 of E.coli 0157 in meat products at that time?
39 A. If it was in McDonald's I would have thought, yes, that
40 it should have come down an information chain.
41
42 Q. But McDonald's did not tell you. Did Dr. Jeff Banks ever
43 mention anything about this outbreak in 1982?
44 A. No, he did not. He was the man who told me about the
45 well-water and the cider, as a matter of interest.
46
47 Q. Your impression was that it was something that had just
48 started happening four years ago?
49 A. No. I said that four years ago E.coli suddenly became
50 a very important item in food technology.
51
52 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, his actual words were: "It did not
53 become a worldwide consideration until four years ago" when
54 originally asked the question.
55
56 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Anyway, the position, so far as this
57 concerned, you do not know whether it was McDonald's ---
58 A. No, my Lord.
59
60 Q. -- and if they had a McDonald's outbreak in 1982 (which is
