Day 181 - 01 Nov 95 - Page 48
1 have represented employees who might be arguing that they
2 have been dismissed for trade union activity, generally, in
3 those cases was their dismissal reason explicitly stated as
4 trade union activity, or was some other reason given?
5 A. Well, I am not able to really answer that question,
6 I am afraid, because I did not generally, in the run of my
7 duties as a full-time officer, have access, direct access,
8 to those kind of exit survey questions. If you would be
9 referring, however, to an industrial tribunal application,
10 then, obviously, it would be a matter of contention, you
11 know, that the employee would claim dismissal wholly or
12 primarily related to trade union membership. But in all
13 those cases that I dealt with, the respondent would deny
14 that.
15
16 Q. It was never the case, then, that there were a clear cut
17 admission by an employer that the reason for dismissal was
18 for trade union activity?
19 A. Not a clear cut admission. But, in the relatively few
20 cases of interim relief that I dealt with, there were one
21 or two successes where it was established, despite an
22 initial resistance on the part of the employer that that
23 was the reason for dismissal -- if you are talking about
24 dismissals.
25
26 Q. Yes. Really, the point I am trying to get at is that a
27 worker would only have an automatic right to a claim for
28 unfair dismissal regarding trade union activity if the
29 employer had actually stipulated that as the grounds for
30 dismissal; would that be correct; otherwise, they would
31 have to go through the rigmarole of trying to prove that
32 that was the reason?
33 A. I think the answer to that would be yes. But,
34 essentially, in any case, what you call the rigmarole, the
35 case itself would still have to be heard, but it would be
36 that much easier on the part of the employee, obviously, if
37 the employer had admitted already that, you know, that was
38 the reason.
39
40 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You are not agreeing that -- it depends what
41 Ms. Steel means by an automatic right. As I understand it,
42 there are circumstances in which the employee can produce
43 evidence, if one is looking for interim relief, which
44 points so strongly towards it being for union activities
45 that, whatever the Company says, interim relief will be
46 given; that is a matter for the tribunal to decide.
47 A. Yes, you are right.
48
49 Q. If you are not looking for interim relief, but looking for
50 compensation in due course, then the tribunal is charged
51 with the responsibility of doing its best to get to the
52 truth of the matter, whatever the respondent employer says?
53 A. Absolutely; and of course -----
54
55 Q. I mean, you may hold a personal view, and other people may,
56 as to whether it is easy or difficult to do that. I would
57 be surprised if it would not varied according to the
58 tribunal you get.
59 A. Yes, it does.
60
