Day 053 - 22 Nov 94 - Page 41


     
     1
     2        To go on to page 24, the following page, he says:
     3
     4        "We do not believe that there is any real scientific merit
     5        in suggesting that there is an association, at least not
     6        one which a respectable scientist would accept."
     7
     8        We submit that, in the light of these comments and other
     9        similar comments, the assertion by Mr. Rampton that the
    10        witness statements served by both parties recognised that
    11        the principal issue was whether there is a causal
    12        connection between consumption of the Plaintiffs' food and
    13        degenerative diseases or illnesses and those that eat it,
    14        is totally wrong.
    15
    16        Going on to paragraph 15 -----
    17
    18   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Can I just go back to something you said this
    19        morning?  You gave various kinds of meanings; you said
    20        "causal link" was one kind of link, "statistical
    21        association" was another -- I appreciate that may not be
    22        causal -- and promotion is another.
    23
    24        To my mind, subject to any further argument, that is
    25        causal, because it is part of what is necessary for the
    26        cancer to demonstrate itself clinically at the end of the
    27        day; and when we talk about having cancer, we mean cancer
    28        which is diagnosable or in some way clinical cancer.
    29
    30        You said treatment is another, that is, it can be cured by
    31        adopting a certain diet, it would show some kind of
    32        relationship was there, some kind of link.  Again, that
    33        might be thought to be demonstrating a causal link, because
    34        if you cut off the cause you get better, or part of
    35        the cause, you get better or do not get worse.
    36
    37        Also, you said the word "link" encompasses an indirect link
    38        through obesity, and we talked about obesity, age at
    39        menarche, the protective factor, or what might be the
    40        protective factor of eating a lot of vegetables and,
    41        therefore, taking on board fibre.  But again that was
    42        related causally to cancer and that, in turn, was related
    43        to whether you have a high meat and, therefore, a high fat
    44        diet or not.
    45
    46        So, of the various kinds of links you have made, all of
    47        them have an element of causality, be it direct or less
    48        direct, except the statistical one.  Do you follow what
    49        I am putting to you?  Is that not a factor to take into
    50        account, that wherever you see the word "link", if you 
    51        think of what "link" might mean, most of the things it 
    52        might mean are a form of causal link, however direct or 
    53        indirect that may be.
    54
    55   MS. STEEL:   I understand what you are saying.  I do not know
    56        where that leaves us in terms of where witnesses have
    57        referred to "link" and we have not clarified with them what
    58        they mean by "link", whether it encompasses those things.
    59
    60   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  One can look at their evidence or their

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