Day 286 - 24 Oct 96 - Page 11


     
     1        comprehensive, and I think it is also significant -- while
     2        I am on a discussion of this kind of things in general --
     3        that Mr. Rampton chose, for whatever reason he would want
     4        to say, to barely test the evidence of our witnesses on
     5        this part of the case, and not just Brazil, Costa Rica as
     6        well, or challenge their expertise.  And it is our
     7        understanding that if you are going to challenge someone's
     8        expertise, or indeed their evidence, you should do it to
     9        their face and you should do it in a proper manner, and we
    10        would say that is a recognition by the plaintiffs, any time
    11        it has happened in the case, that our witnesses are indeed
    12        telling the truth.  That is especially true in the case of
    13        experts, that it is a necessity to challenge them to their
    14        face, because if you are effectively saying they do not
    15        know what they are talking about you are attacking their
    16        professional conduct and you cannot do that, we would
    17        submit, under the privilege of the courts without having
    18        challenged them to their face.  Just as if - well, yes.
    19
    20        So, on the subject of displacement of people, we have heard
    21        how our experts have explained how the cattle ranching
    22        industry in Brazil is displacing, has displaced, large
    23        numbers of people from their land which is now devoted to
    24        cattle ranching, and, indeed, of course, indigenous peoples
    25        as well who have been forced into a kind of reserve.  So in
    26        terms of non-indigenous people, they have had to go
    27        elsewhere.  We have heard that that is a significant cause
    28        of tropical forest and rainforest destruction, and I will
    29        not go into the detail.
    30
    31        But we also have heard, and George Monbiot again dealt with
    32        this as part of his comprehensive understanding of the
    33        overall economic patterns, that soya production is part of
    34        that displacement process.  In fact, I believe -- yes.
    35        (Pause).  We have, on top of the expert opinion on this
    36        subject, the documented information from the most
    37        authoritative bodies in Brazil.  We have heard about
    38        disputes with indigenous people and land disputes in
    39        general which have been described as 'the tip of the
    40        iceberg', I believe.
    41
    42        For example, Sue Branford explained that in her testimony
    43        for the Gioias area, and obviously Fiona Watson dealt with
    44        that as well for Mato Grosso do Sul.  I might pick out a
    45        few points about specific witnesses' evidence, which may
    46        dot around from various subjects.
    47
    48   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do not worry about that.
    49
    50   MR. MORRIS:   Regarding Mr. Cesca, he joined McDonald's in 1987 
    51        he said, and so it is hard to believe he could know 
    52        anything about McDonald's before that time.  It would be 
    53        hearsay.  Like with all McDonald's executives and heads of
    54        department, much of his evidence was hearsay in any event.
    55        He clearly was not an expert, as he admitted, on
    56        biodiversity and vegetation, and the impression that we got
    57        of him in the witness box was he did not really know what
    58        went on on the ground and was relying on what other people
    59        were telling him as regards supply sources in general, and
    60        the effect of those supply sources in general in Brazil and

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