Day 158 - 19 Jul 95 - Page 28
1 ex-rainforest.
2
3 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, before Mr. Morris goes any further --
4 I am terribly confused -- can I understand whether he is
5 saying that the regions mentioned in the Vesty letter,
6 which is the ones he is talking about at the moment, which
7 we used on one occasion for McDonald's beef in this
8 country, are habitually used by the producers in Sao Paulo
9 for the permanent McDonald's restaurants in Brazil? At the
10 moment I am completely confused about what his case is
11 supposed to be.
12
13 MR. MORRIS: I think the Barretos -----
14
15 MR. JUSTICE BELL: As I understand it, you are referring me to
16 the latest bits ---
17
18 MR. MORRIS: Yes.
19
20 MR. JUSTICE BELL: -- in support of the sentence you added at
21 the end of proposed amendment 1. It goes as wide as this,
22 that if you use a cattle ranch anywhere in Brazil it has a
23 knock-on effect on the rain forest.
24
25 MR. RAMPTON: That I understand, my Lord. We were on Mato
26 Grosso and Goias which are the areas mentioned in the Vesty
27 letter which, as far as I can tell, are nothing whatever to
28 do with a regular supply of beef to McDonald's in Brazil.
29
30 MR. MORRIS: First of all, it is not just cattle ranching
31 anywhere in Brazil, although that would be an argument, but
32 it would particularly apply to those cattle ranches in
33 regions which border the Amazon region, as do Mato Grosso
34 and Do Sul where they have a supply plant, as do Goias
35 region where they have a supply plant and Minas Gerais
36 where they have a supply plant and the River Paraguay flood
37 plain which relates to the Barretos situation and Mato
38 Grosso which was mentioned in the Barretos letter.
39 But -----
40
41 MR. JUSTICE BELL: As I understand it, you have moved off for
42 the time being what you say about any evidence to suggest
43 that McDonald's beef comes from cattle actually ranched on
44 land which was rain forest within a reasonable period of
45 time, and you have moved for the time being anyway on to
46 your knock on effect point.
47
48 MR. MORRIS: Yes. Yes, I think it is important to emphasise
49 that it is not just cattle ranching anywhere in Brazil, but
50 it is most logically in regions which are closest to the
51 Amazon region. If I may continue with the -----
52
53 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Just pause a moment. Yes? What are you
54 going to move on to now?
55
56 MR. MORRIS: Can I just say that on the subject of the
57 definition of tropical forest and rain forest, it is that
58 in the Collins' map, the -----
59
60 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Look, what I suggest is that we break off now
