Day 285 - 23 Oct 96 - Page 35


     
     1
     2   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  One thing I may need some help on is how he
     3        knows.  If he just knows the people it is exported to in
     4        the United States and they are not McDonald's, how does he
     5        know that it goes to McDonald's eventually?
     6
     7   MR. MORRIS:   Well, he --
     8
     9   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You see, he might see it goes to someone who
    10        is a middle man in the chain of supply, but what is the
    11        basis for him knowing that they supply it to processors
    12        who supply it to McDonald's?  What is the answer to
    13        that?
    14
    15   MS. STEEL:   He does refer to them having to meet the
    16        specifications.
    17
    18   MR. MORRIS:   He says the type of meat we produce must comply
    19        with all the technical requirements which are laid down in
    20        the United States, according to the type of product it
    21        would be used for.  Then he is asked which fast food
    22        chains does he supply in this way.  "We supply McDonald's
    23        and Burger King and also Wendy's, they buy our meat."  He
    24        is not saying they buy directly from us.
    25
    26   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  How does he know that?
    27
    28   MR. MORRIS:   Well, he is the sales director of a supplier to
    29        McDonald's in Co-op Montecillos in Costa Rica, and he
    30        certainly gives the impression that he knows and he says
    31        that he knows.  We have to take that admission on face
    32        value.
    33
    34   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Well, we do not necessarily, I am afraid.  I
    35        mean, I am not saying what my conclusion will be at the
    36        end of the day, but I am not taking anything on face value
    37        in this case, on either side.
    38
    39   MR. MORRIS:   If he is the sales director of their supplier, he
    40        is not going to say something that is not true on camera
    41        about one of his suppliers that he has a commercial
    42        relationship with in Costa Rica, and it is just not
    43        conceivable that he lied or made it up.  And he does not
    44        deny it, he does not say in - this is the important thing
    45        I was trying, the point I was making - he has the
    46        opportunity now in this case for all time to say: I did
    47        not know, I was speaking, you know, out of my head -- out
    48        of my hat, I mean, and, you know, I am sorry for what I
    49        did.  He does not say that.
    50
    51        All that happens is that he makes a very carefully crafted
    52        statement basically not denying what he said, not denying 
    53        that he said it and not denying the truth of what he
    54        said.  All he says in his statement is they have not sold
    55        beef to McDonald's.  He could have said "we have not sold
    56        beef to McDonald's suppliers, as far as I know", or
    57        whatever.  He had every opportunity to.
    58
    59        So I think that if somebody is responding to an allegation
    60        about what they said with a sworn statement --

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