Day 099 - 08 Mar 95 - Page 72
1 but that the multiplication is so slow or so insignificant
2 that it is thought that one can safely leave it. Do you
3 understand?
4 A. Yes.
5
6 Q. That is really to get you started. I might be quite wrong
7 about that. I want you to express it in your own words.
8 We start with the optimum is basically blood temperature?
9 A. Yes. The optimum temperature for pathogenic organisms
10 is blood temperature, we know that. Within that the
11 various organisms will have different ranges, but as a
12 summary you could say pathogenic organisms grow their best
13 or the majority of pathogenic organisms grow their best at
14 around body temperature. There are specific organisms that
15 like the extremes of temperature. On the whole they are
16 not pathogenic bacteria at all, but the food industry takes
17 as standard between 6 and 63 which encompasses all
18 organisms, pathogenic and spoilage, as the temperatures
19 which you want to avoid. So if you are holding product
20 before cooking it you hold it below 6 degrees. If you have
21 cooked a product you then hold it above 63 degrees.
22
23 MR. MORRIS: That may be the food industry standard, but I am
24 talking about scientific standards.
25
26 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I want him to finish first. Explain why 6 to
27 63? Explain why 6 first of all?
28 A. It is best if I had that graphical representation you
29 could see the growth of a bacterium against temperature.
30 It is a bell shape like that. So, obviously, below 5
31 degrees you are right at the bottom of curve, there is
32 very, very little growth at all. Then depending on the
33 organism that curve will shift between 6 and 63. It might
34 peak at 43. It might peak at 28 depending on the
35 organism. Once you get above 63 again that curve drops off
36 down to virtually nothing.
37
38 MR. MORRIS: So for some organisms they can grow below 5
39 degrees, can they not?
40 A. Yes.
41
42 Q. For example, clostridium botulinum?
43 A. It is possible, yes. It is possible that organisms grow
44 at that temperature, but the rate at which they grow is
45 slow. It is negligible. It is not a significant risk.
46
47 Q. Basically, for example, clostridium botulinum, it can in
48 fact be active at 3.5 degrees, can it not, centigrade?
49 A. I would have to check. I honestly would not know how
50 active it was at that temperature. It would not die
51 obviously, but it may be very, very slowly active, yes.
52 When you say "active" do you mean growing, multiplying?
53
54 Q. Yes. It would not surprise you if that was the scientific
55 position?
56 A. I would be very surprised if it multiplied rapidly at
57 that temperature, yes.
58
59 Q. We are not sure if it was rapid or slow at that
60 temperature.
