Day 290 - 30 Oct 96 - Page 35


     
     1        difficult thing to identify.
     2
     3        When we asked him whether or not he had actually had a look
     4        for any problems with tail docking or as a result of tail
     5        docking, and it was also as a result of teeth clipping, he
     6        said he had not picked up any pigs to have a look, to
     7        examine them, so it was not something that he would have
     8        noticed anyway.
     9
    10   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   What are you suggesting he should have
    11        noticed if he did pick them up?
    12
    13   MS. STEEL:   It is just the point that Dr. Gregory referred to
    14        the studies that had been carried out showing that tail
    15        docking was painful for the animals concerned.  I just
    16        think there is no reason why that should not also apply to
    17        pigs.
    18
    19   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, what he did was put something on the
    20        other side of the balance and end up his evidence saying so
    21        it is a balance in terms of welfare, which he could not
    22        resolve one way or the other.
    23
    24   MS. STEEL:   That was because of the tail biting, which we would
    25        say is because of the conditions that the pigs are kept in.
    26
    27   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What evidence was there actually of that?
    28        The reason I ask that is that we all know that pigs like to
    29        be together anyway, and if they are going to bite tails,
    30        they are going to bite tails.  You may be right, but it is
    31        easy to jump to conclusions that if they were spread out
    32        all over a field they would not be nipping each other's
    33        tails.  I am not sure such very limited experience as
    34        I have of pigs supports that.  But I am just querying
    35        whether this is a case where there is anything to say that
    36        there is more tail biting if they are in confined spaces
    37        than if they are chasing each other around a field.
    38
    39   MS. STEEL:   I think I will have to check tonight.
    40
    41   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Especially when they are small.
    42
    43   MS. STEEL:   I did think I remembered something about it, but I
    44        cannot actually remember where it was.
    45
    46   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Very well.
    47
    48   MS. STEEL:   The other process was teeth clipping, which was
    49        carried out at Bowes, and that was something that was again
    50        left to the discretion of the individual manager to decide 
    51        whether or not it was necessary.  That was when the piglets 
    52        were between 24 and 48 hours old.  Dr. Gregory said about 
    53        teeth clipping, that research -- well, firstly, he was
    54        asked:  Is there evidence that teeth clipping or tail
    55        docking, either or both, are undesirable from an animal
    56        welfare point of the view.  He said:  Yes, there is.
    57        And ----
    58
    59   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  He referred to the German and Swedish
    60        research.

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