Day 167 - 02 Oct 95 - Page 67


     
     1
     2   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What I think you should do is overnight you
     3        should make a list of what you think would be a start on
     4        it, because I am entirely disinclined at the moment to make
     5        a direction for vast discovery.  So, what I want you to do
     6        overnight is think of what samples you could most easily
     7        justify to me.
     8
     9        Bear in mind that the documents may be totally
    10        inconclusive, whatever they have on them, because if, for
    11        instance, we had a sheet which showed alterations were made
    12        to the clock-card, if you have actually got the witness --
    13        I say the witness -- if you have actually the person there,
    14        it might turn out to have a perfectly innocent reason.
    15
    16        The other matter is this question of hours actually
    17        worked.  At the end of the day, I may think there is a very
    18        great difference between -- if there is cogent evidence of
    19        a lot of working of over 39 hours, then that is one thing,
    20        but there may be a big difference in my mind as to whether
    21        people are working regularly over 39 hours with or without
    22        overtime because there is some pressure on them to do so,
    23        on the one hand, or because they are begging the Manager to
    24        let them work it on the other.
    25        In the context of this leaflet, I may think there is a
    26        world of difference, whatever you think and would like to
    27        argue.
    28
    29        That is why I mention the question of the possibility of a
    30        sample witness or witnesses in relation to these matters,
    31        because if there is absolute conflict between Mr. Logan and
    32        Mr. Richards at the end of the day, one or two might help
    33        me, but there you] Are.  That is a matter entirely for the
    34        parties.
    35
    36   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.  I think we ought to bear in mind that Michael
    37        Logan is talking about practices and the power that
    38        management have to use -----
    39
    40   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I know.  All I am saying is whatever the
    41        documents show, at the end of the day that may be
    42        absolutely inconclusive, because there may be a world of
    43        difference between that person being scheduled those hours
    44        or working those hours, if he has wanted to work them, on
    45        the one hand, or had pressure put on him to work them
    46        because they do not have enough people on the payroll.
    47
    48        At the moment, I find it difficult to see how I could
    49        decide that, if it was important to me, whether you say it
    50        is important or not, just from the document. 
    51 
    52   MR. MORRIS:  I think what Michael Logan has said and what I have 
    53        applied for is a picture over a period of time when
    54        somebody's hours were cut down from what they -----
    55
    56   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That may be a reason for ---
    57
    58   MR. MORRIS:  Unsocial hours.
    59
    60   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  -- having a certain period of time of the

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