Day 018 - 26 Jul 94 - Page 41


     
     1
         Q.   In your observations -- I had better ask you this first.
     2        What are the stages that one can observe externally in a
              pig's process, progress I should say, after being
     3        stunned?  What is the first observation one can make after
              the tongs have been applied?
     4        A.  The animal collapses to the ground as the current is
              being applied.  This is because the hind legs go into
     5        flexion; they bend; the fore legs, in case of pigs,
              usually go into extension; that is during the current
     6        flow.
 
     7   Q.   After that?
              A.  That, depending on how long the tongs are applied for,
     8        that rigidity, flexion and extension is maintained for a
              period, which can last approximately ten seconds.
     9
         Q.   Ten to 20, according to your report in 1991?
    10        A.  Fine.  Thereafter there is a period of convulsive
              activity or in particular hind leg kicking, and that
    11        combination is a common expression of the physical
              consequences of epilepsy in the brain.
    12
         Q.   It does not tell us the pig is conscious?
    13        A.  Oh, no.
 
    14   Q.   We do not know these things.  We have to learn them.  The
              man, the other man in the pen was the man who was going to
    15        shackle the pig's leg after it had been stunned?
              A.  Yes.
    16
         Q.   From his own point of view, is it desirable that he should
    17        shackle the pig before the kicking starts?
              A.  Absolutely.
    18
         Q.   When you were at GD Bowes what was the average length of
    19        time between stunning and sticking?  You find it on page
              9.
    20        A.  Thank you.
 
    21   Q.   Above the numbered paragraphs.
              A.  18 seconds.
    22
         Q.   18 seconds.  Is that a satisfactory achievement, 18
    23        seconds, between stunning and sticking?
              A.  We would recommend less than 15 seconds but 18 is well
    24        within normal practice.
 
    25   Q.   You had certain comments to make about the stunning
              process at GD Bowes.  I am going to come back to those, 
    26        but what I want to ask you is this:  How do you judge 
              whether a pig has been stunned so it is insensible by the 
    27        time it is stuck?
              A.  If one is at the sticking point one goes back to the
    28        criteria I mentioned earlier, is the animal breathing?
              That is the first screen that you use.  If an animal is
    29        breathing, you then have to establish whether the animal
              is fully conscious.  The types of test I use in that
    30        situation would be to grab hold of the jaws of the pig and
              the snout and I would pull the jaws apart; I put my hand

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