Day 197 - 07 Dec 95 - Page 45


     
       1
       2 Q.   Yes, on 1st August 1987, right?
       3      A.  If you say so, yes.
       4
       5 Q.   Yesterday you told us this.  You were talking about
       6      pressure to keep costs down and achieve the targets.
       7      Mr. Morris asked you:  "Under pressure from who?"  You
       8      said:  "From about ----
       9
      10 MS. STEEL:   Where are we now?
      11
      12 MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, if it would help I do have copies of
      13      these pages too.
      14
      15 MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think you should just put it because it is
      16      a bit unreal if one person has got the actual verbatim
      17      transcript and no-one else has; no-one can check whether
      18      something a little bit different was said just before or
      19      just afterwards or anything of that kind which would
      20      normally happen.  That is not to say you should not put it
      21      to the witness:  "You said this yesterday" and see if he
      22      can remember.  But I am a bit uneasy about a transcript
      23      which only you or your team have got being used as the
      24      basis for it.
      25
      26 MR. RAMPTON:  I cannot help using a transcript for the basis of
      27      cross-examination.
      28
      29 MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I am sorry?
      30
      31 MR. RAMPTON:  I am sorry, my Lord, I am not willing not to use
      32      the transcript as a basis for cross-examination.
      33
      34 MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think you should give everyone a copy of
      35      the transcript of the evidence well before you do so.
      36      I do not resile at all from my power not to order you to
      37      give transcripts, but if you are going to use a transcript
      38      for cross-examination, I think everyone else, that is,
      39      myself and the Defendants should have a copy of it well in
      40      advance so that they can familiarise themselves with it.
      41      I cannot stop you just saying:  "I suggest you put this,
      42      that or the other; you said this, that or the other
      43      yesterday", but I do not think it is even-handed if you
      44      are cross-examining the following day off a transcript
      45      which no-one else has got.
      46
      47 MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, I do not understand.  Am I supposed not
      48      to read it?
      49
      50 MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  Just put it:  "I suggest you said this
      51      yesterday".
      52 
      53 MR. RAMPTON:  Yes, I follow your Lordship.  I quite agree.
      54
      55 MR. JUSTICE BELL:  But actually being shown the transcript
      56      gives it an authority.  It may be unreal but we are in an
      57      unreal transcript where you have a transcript and no-one
      58      else has.  My instinct is that it is just odd that you can
      59      read from a transcript which only you have.  I mean, might
      60      flip forward five pages or back three or back four and

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