Day 103 - 14 Mar 95 - Page 37


     
     1        A.  Yes.
     2
     3   Q.   -- "thorough cooking of food will kill most but not all
     4        listeria"?
     5        A.  Right.
     6
     7   Q.   Would you accept that?
     8        A.  No, I do not agree with that.
     9
    10   Q.   You disagree with that?
    11        A.  But I mean -----
    12
    13   Q.   Would you agree that ----
    14
    15   MR. RAMPTON:  He was about to say something.
    16
    17   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, he was.  Just let him finish and then
    18        ask your question.
    19
    20   THE WITNESS:  They are talking about here that chilled or
    21        refrigerated food must be heated until piping hot
    22        throughout 70 degrees for two minutes.  The actual
    23        definition of cooking in MAFF regulations is 70 degrees for
    24        two minutes.  Now, if that is carried out that will kill
    25        bacteria.
    26
    27   MS. STEEL:  But it would need to be cooked at that temperature
    28        for two minutes in order to do that?
    29        A.  Yes, I would be very surprised if that did not kill
    30        listeria.
    31
    32   Q.   "Throughout" would be throughout the meat itself?
    33        A.  Of course.
    34
    35   Q.   So the meat itself has to be at 70 degrees Centigrade for
    36        two minutes?
    37        A.  Yes.
    38
    39   Q.   Just while you have the other paper there:  "The occurrence
    40        in the UK of listeria species in raw chickens and soft
    41        cheeses"?
    42        A.  Yes.
    43
    44   Q.   You see the abstract at the beginning?
    45        A.  Yes.
    46
    47   Q.   "60 per cent of raw chickens were contaminated with
    48        listeria monocytogenes"?
    49        A.  Yes.
    50 
    51   Q.   You would accept that? 
    52        A.  Yes. 
    53
    54   Q.   Do you feel that it is inevitable there is going to be
    55        listeria in the chickens; is that why you do not -- you do
    56        not feel it is worth testing for because there is nothing
    57        you can do about it?
    58        A.  No, listeria is a soil-borne organism.
    59
    60   Q.   Yes, but do you feel there is nothing you can do about it;

Prev Next Index