Day 124 - 10 May 95 - Page 33


     
     1        Any violation of any laws would obviously concern us and we
     2        would have some communication with the Company, but it
     3        really is not our responsibility to, to use your term,
     4        monitor.  I mean, that is pretty broad.  I do not know any
     5        company that, frankly, would do that, but if -----
     6
     7   Q.   If something came to your attention?
     8        A.  If something came to our attention, if we were informed
     9        that there was a company that was polluting a stream, the
    10        atmosphere, violating some law, then we obviously would be
    11        concerned and have some communication with that particular
    12        company.
    13
    14   Q.   How do you explain that, as the court has heard, aerosol
    15        sprays that were using CFCs as blowing agents were banned
    16        in the United States in the late 70s, and yet McDonald's
    17        was still using CFC blowing agents up to a decade later?
    18        A.  How do I explain it?
    19
    20   Q.   How do you explain that?
    21        A.  I am not immediately conversant on that and, first of
    22        all, if -- that is not true, entirely true.  It was being
    23        done without our knowledge.  Certainly, if we had knowledge
    24        of the fact that there were agents that were banned in the
    25        production of products that we used, it would be our
    26        philosophy, operating philosophy, not to want to use those
    27        products.
    28
    29   Q.   But you are aware, presumably, as any generally aware
    30        person in America must have been, that aerosols made of
    31        CFCs were banned in the late 70s because of concerns about
    32        the damage that CFCs do to the ozone layer?
    33        A.  Well, I am not so sure.  You know, I am not an expert
    34        in this area, but my general opinion is that if we had
    35        knowledge, full knowledge, that an agent was being used in
    36        the preparation of a package, material that we were using
    37        to supply our products, we would take steps to cease using
    38        that package or, certainly, communicate to the Company that
    39        they would have to cease using that agent, they would be in
    40        violation.  Obviously, we would have some concern, we would
    41        have -----
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do you, in fact, know about CFCs and which,
    44        if any, uses the CFCs were banned at any particular time?
    45        A.  They have been banned, but I do not agree with his
    46        assertion that we -----
    47
    48   MR. RAMPTON:  I know Mr. Beavers is here as a general
    49        representative.  Mr. Morris and Ms. Steel had, I do not
    50        know how much opportunity, unlimited opportunity, really, 
    51        to put all this to Mr. Langert who does know about it 
    52        specifically and Mr. Kouchoukos.  What headway they made in 
    53        that regard, I cannot remember and your Lordship will say
    54        at the end of the day.  I wonder how useful a use of your
    55        Lordship's time this line of questioning is with this
    56        witness.
    57
    58   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You see, I am not aware, no-one has told me
    59        yet, that McDonald's have ever used CFC aerosols.  I have
    60        had it explained to me what the difference between an

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