Day 105 - 16 Mar 95 - Page 25


     
     1        them are the same ones that you get E grades on the 25th?
     2        A.  Yes.
     3
     4   Q.   So they do not appear to have taken any notice?
     5
     6   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The word "failure" you used and then
     7        corrected may have hit the nail on the head, I do not know
     8        that he is a failure at the moment.  Can you help us about
     9        that?
    10        A.  It is not a failure insofar as that presents a major
    11        risk of contamination.  It is indicating (and this will be
    12        confirmed by the crosses placed by those Es on the second
    13        occasion) that it is time to be checking up on the cleaning
    14        procedure.
    15
    16   MS. STEEL:   In the hope that they are going to do something
    17        about it and improve the situation?
    18        A.  I am not a manager of Jarretts, but if I were in the
    19        management situation, I would use the word "expectation"
    20        rather than "hope".  But, again it is within the band of
    21        acceptability for this type of microbiological check.
    22
    23   Q.   So, if it is your expectation that it would improve, then
    24        would it worry you that it has not improved?
    25        A.  It would worry me as a manager because people were not
    26        following my instructions as an adviser on public health.
    27        It would not worry me insofar as I would not believe that
    28        this presented a major risk to health through
    29        contamination.  It is again within a broadly acceptable
    30        range and it is a management indicator.
    31
    32   Q.   These tests, they were carried out at 5.45 in the morning;
    33        is that right?
    34        A.  Yes.
    35
    36   Q.   So that is likely to be the time of the day when the place
    37        is the cleanest?
    38        A.  Yes, this is after post production cleaning has ended
    39        and, in the case of the boning hall, yes, it ought to be at
    40        its cleanest at the beginning of production.
    41
    42   Q.   So if swabs were taken a couple of hours or halfway through
    43        the day's slaughtering procedure, the results are going to
    44        be higher?
    45        A.  I have to bore you with the detail of what particular
    46        item we are looking at.  The walls and other items not
    47        coming into contact with product, I would say not
    48        necessarily.  If it is a cutting block, yes, the bacterial
    49        count does rise gradually over the day.
    50 
    51   Q.   And the trimtable would as well? 
    52        A.  Yes, anything which is passing time and there is scope 
    53        for bacterial growth, the bacteria increase.
    54
    55   Q.   In both of those there is a trimtable in the packing room,
    56        which is grade E on both of those dates, and there is a
    57        trimtable in the boning hall, which is grade E on both the
    58        those dates?
    59        A.  Yes.
    60

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