Day 039 - 20 Oct 94 - Page 43


     
     1        because they are mentioned twice in the footnotes.
     2        A.  Yes, OK.  In the 1983 paper?
     3
     4   MS. STEEL:  Is 111.
     5        A.  Yes, halfway down page 94.
     6
     7   MR. MORRIS:  Hang on a second.  I just want to make sure we have
     8        all the same paper.  1983:  "Molecular weight distribution
     9        and hydrolysis behaviour of Carrageenans"?
    10        A.  Yes.
    11
    12   Q.   Ekstrom?
    13        A.  Ekstrom.  Yes.  Page 94 the last page of this article.
    14
    15   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Are you in 112 now?
    16
    17   MS. STEEL:  111.
    18
    19   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  So that is the 1983 one, is it?
    20        A.  Yes, on the final page of that paper in the penultimate
    21        paragraph halfway down, I will read, if I may, a couple of
    22        sentences:  "The pH", that is the acidity, "in the gastric
    23        tract can vary considerably, as can the time of residence",
    24        that is to say, how long the material remains in the gut or
    25        the stomach, "depending upon the amount, type, and water
    26        content of the ingested food-stuffs".
    27
    28        If I may just interject, this accounts for the variety of
    29        conditions that were used in the test.  Then the key
    30        sentence is:  "The formation of undesirable fragments of
    31        low molecular weight from well-defined material of high
    32        molecular weight may therefore vary, but is likely to occur
    33        during normal conditions".
    34
    35        Then in the next paper where they look at -- Ekstrom by
    36        himself has published this paper, 85 in Carbohydrate
    37        Research, he has looked at a quite specific kind of
    38        Carrageenan and estimated the rate of degradation under a
    39        range of conditions.
    40
    41        Perhaps the key sentences are given in the discussion on
    42        page 288.  The key sentences are the final two of that
    43        paragraph:  "Thus, the acidity and the rate of passage
    44        through the stomach will determine the degree of
    45        degradation of Carrageenan.  The possible toxicological
    46        implications of the low-molecular-weight fragments present
    47        either in the food-grade Carrageenans or formed by the
    48        digestion should be taken into account when evaluating the
    49        health-risks of these food additives".
    50 
    51        I interpret that to mean that his evidence implies that we 
    52        cannot be confident that merely requiring the food industry 
    53        to confine its use of Carrageenan to well-defined material
    54        of high molecular weight will be sufficient to ensure that
    55        degraded Carrageenan of a potentially toxicologically
    56        significant kind will not be formed within the human
    57        digestive tract.
    58
    59   MR. MORRIS:  Do you want to refer us to 115 as well?  Watt and
    60        Marcus, "Harmful Effects of Carrageenan Fed to Animals"?

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