Day 105 - 16 Mar 95 - Page 31
1 in any case and, secondly, the condition of meat.
2
3 Q. Are you saying that the grades selected by the Bristol Food
4 Laboratories company, the system used by them is,
5 effectively, worthless, the grading system?
6 A. No, because we have heard the term "educational". It
7 is educational in that it indicates, with a certain degree
8 of fine tuning, I might say, what the general standards of
9 cleaning are in the plant.
10
11 Q. But, basically, they do not have to do anything about any
12 of the grades that they get?
13 A. Well, Bristol Laboratories are not an enforcement
14 authority.
15
16 Q. Not, but the purpose of getting this advice, the company
17 does not have to do anything with the results it gets as
18 long as they do not get any worse?
19
20 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Do you know the answer to any of these
21 questions? Do you know what "E" means to Jarretts when it
22 gets back there?
23 A. It means that -----
24
25 Q. You do actually know this?
26 A. Yes. They know that "E" is the lowest grade that
27 Bristol Food Laboratories are giving within this broadly
28 acceptable range of acceptability. I keep stressing that
29 because I think it is so important. If they see several
30 Es, they will do what I have said they do and, that is,
31 bring it to the attention of the cleaners. They will
32 probably say something like: "Look, we are getting Es
33 again, just check up that the procedures are correct".
34
35 MS. STEEL: Who appear to be doing nothing?
36 A. I would not say that at all. There is a month gone by
37 between these two. They, indeed, have not got any worse.
38 If they never get any worse than that, I, for one, would be
39 perfectly satisfied.
40
41 Q. But they are not getting any better, are they?
42 A. If they are satisfactory and in terms of -- we are
43 talking about the very serious matter of dangers to health
44 here -- if they are satisfactory, the question of improving
45 them beyond that is entirely a matter for what the company
46 might wish to do, in my view.
47
48 Q. The last of these reports has eight grade Es, on page 85,
49 that is, 25th November 1994. So, in fact, if anything, the
50 situation is getting worse. Are you suggesting that their
51 cleaning system is unsatisfactory?
52 A. No, I am not suggesting that at all. I have made no
53 comment on the cleaning system up to this stage, nor has
54 anybody else, but to see eight Es, there is no history of
55 what happened after that, but I would be confident that the
56 management would act to the extent that they show these
57 results. That is what happens in practice: "Here, you are
58 getting Es; keep an eye on the cleaning". On the evidence
59 here, the microbiological counts have not gone outside what
60 is a safe band of results.
