Day 208 - 24 Jan 96 - Page 43
1
2 Q. When you are on with other Managers, do they say: "That is
3 a bit out of order", or do they say: "That is exactly the
4 way to do things"?
5 A. Most of the time they will leave it to your own
6 personal judgment, and they would not comment on it at all.
7
8 Q. And this was the attitude of the other Managers when you
9 were a crew person, was it; they were happy for you to have
10 less than your entitled break?
11 A. The attitude of a lot of the Floor Managers when I was
12 a crew person was to get the breaks out the way as soon as
13 possible and, if possible, to talk the individual into
14 taking less of a break. If you look at the Managers that
15 are there, they are not there any more.
16
17 MS. STEEL: I wanted to raise something, which is that when
18 Mr. Morris asked a question just a minute ago and said that
19 the witness did not know something this morning,
20 Mr. Rampton said, "Yes, he did". I have just looked back
21 to what the witness actually said, and he said that if he
22 worked an 11.00 to 4.00 shift, he was asked: "That is five
23 hours. How much break would you get for that?" "Half an
24 hour." "Right. That is what happened to you" --
25 question. "I would probably not have taken half an hour,
26 but that is my decision at the end of the day."
27 I just point out that the clear implication of that is that
28 the witness did think his entitlement was half an hour, but
29 that he did not take the whole of that entitlement.
30
31 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I will say it now for a final time, so I can
32 tell you what my provisional view is. At the moment, if
33 you had a young person of 18 years of age, when they are
34 probably fit, active and healthy, who was entitled to a
35 three-quarter of an hour break, if they decided that after
36 half an hour they felt perfectly refreshed enough and,
37 rather than take a further quarter of an hour's break, they
38 would rather get back on the job and, as it happened, earn
39 an extra quarter of an hour's money, I would not criticise
40 the employee and I would not criticise the employer for
41 letting him do so.
42
43 If, however, it turns out that the law obliges the employer
44 to insist that the employee takes a three-quarters of an
45 hour break, then it may be another matter, because you may
46 be able to say that if McDonald's habitually breach this,
47 they disregard provisions which Parliament in its wisdom
48 has thought is in the interests of employees generally.
49
50 I do not really think you can usefully ask Mr. Cox any more
51 about it. You can come back to the argument when you have
52 sorted out what the position is, whether it is just a
53 question of entitlement or what is obligatory.
54
55 MS. STEEL: I was not particularly trying to continue the
56 argument. I was ------
57
58 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I know. I am not making the point at you
59 personally. You have made your point about what the
60 evidence actually was. I am repeating it -- I am conscious
