Day 188 - 15 Nov 95 - Page 56
1 sure that Mr. Morris was aware of that.
2
3 MS. STEEL: Right.
4
5 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I know Mr. Rampton is aware of it.
6
7 MS. STEEL: I mean, obviously, on that occasion the basis was a
8 contradiction between something he had earlier said.
9
10 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I know you say that; and when I consider
11 Mr. Walker's evidence, I will have to think about that.
12 But I know that you are representing yourselves, and
13 because I know -- as you say Mr. Lamti is -- people can be
14 offended by allegations that they are lying, for which they
15 may see no basis, I wanted to make sure that you were aware
16 that it is not right to suggest that someone is lying
17 unless you have some basis for it. I do not have to say
18 that to Mr. Rampton, because I know he knows that. But
19 what he does not have to do is disclose the basis for it.
20
21 MS. STEEL: If I can just say for the record that I do not
22 think either of us would dream of accusing anyone of lying
23 unless we had some basis for it.
24
25 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Well, I do not know. The reason I say I do
26 not know is, I know people with some pecker can get up in
27 litigation and sometimes people put things which, in a
28 calmer situation, they would not put. You did not remind
29 me that I made the comment to Mr. Morris, but I remember
30 perfectly well I did, and that was the reason why I did it
31 and no more. But the fact is, you can challenge someone
32 because your instructions are that that is not accurate.
33 It may be a situation where it is not true; there cannot be
34 any question of mistake; therefore, it must follow that it
35 is a lie. Then one has not got to beat around the bush,
36 and you can say: "That is a lie."
37
38 You do not, as I understand the code of conduct at the Bar,
39 have to reveal what the basis for it is. Where, on some
40 occasions, a barrister may find himself accused of
41 misconduct is where, for some reason or another, it is
42 quite apparent that there was no basis which any reasonable
43 barrister could accept for putting the allegation of lying
44 or, indeed, no instructions. But I am not prepared to
45 assume that.
46
47 MR. MORRIS: I would say in this case there is absolutely no
48 basis; there is clearly no basis; and just because
49 McDonald's France may have made some complaints which no
50 judge has yet taken seriously in France -- which no doubt
51 is a reason why McDonald's France as well have tried and
52 discredit Mr. Lamti -- I do not think that a kind of
53 hearsay, unsubstantiated tactical manoeuvre in France is a
54 basis for challenging one of our witnesses in a courtroom
55 here in this country; and I think that the allegation
56 should be withdrawn by Mr. Rampton.
57
58 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I disagree with you. The basis for the
59 challenge -- whether I pay any attention to the challenge
60 is another matter entirely and completely for me to judge.
