Day 113 - 03 Apr 95 - Page 54


     
     1
     2   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  If you have any more in relation to stunning
     3        and sticking, ask it now and then we will have the break.
     4
     5   MR. MORRIS:  I have lost my train of thought, so maybe it would
     6        be useful to have the break.
     7
     8                       (Short Adjournment)
     9
    10   MR. MORRIS:  You said that with the use of the captive bolt
    11        pistol the period of time until the bleeding is effective,
    12        is crucial.  On what kind of number of occasions or
    13        percentages do you feel that the welfare of the stunned
    14        animal has been compromised in your experience, after the
    15        stun?
    16        A.  First of all, I would say that one has to try to get
    17        the knife in within 30 seconds of the animal falling out of
    18        the stunning box, being hoist.  That is my view.  It is
    19        difficult.  You cannot do experiments in these
    20        circumstances.  I have known quite a number of animals
    21        where it has been over a minute before the knife has been
    22        plunged in.
    23
    24   Q.   You have seen that with your own eyes?
    25        A.  Yes, I have timed it.
    26
    27   Q.   From the animals that you have seen, however many that is,
    28        being killed and stuck, what kind of prevalence is the over
    29        30 seconds?
    30        A.  I would say it is 5 to 10 per cent that I have seen.
    31
    32   Q.   Maybe I should move on to pigs.  There are a number of
    33        outstanding bits and pieces on cattle but -----
    34
    35   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What I suggest you do is go on to pigs now
    36        and overnight make a list of matters which you have omitted
    37        which you think are important enough to come back to in the
    38        morning.
    39
    40   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.  It is such a vast subject.  We will go on to
    41        pigs, but how would you summarise, you have just described
    42        in quite a lot of detail the life of cattle destined for
    43        slaughter for the modern beef industry, how would you
    44        describe their lives if you had to summarise it?
    45        A.  I would say that it is quite needless and relentless
    46        exploitation.  I have always been very impressed by
    47        Shakespeare, he uses in Henry VII to illustrate capacity
    48        for treachery and betrayal.  I think it betrays our dignity
    49        and our wit and resource to look after animals and to look
    50        after the environment. 
    51 
    52   Q.   OK.  If we move on to pigs, if you can do for pigs what you 
    53        did for cattle.  First of all, are there similarities
    54        between the modern pig production and the modern cattle
    55        production?
    56        A.  Yes.  Again I explain this question of the animal being
    57        empty between pregnancies.  That is the case with the sow.
    58        You try to get her empty for the shortest period of time,
    59        so the modern farmer (and this has been going on now for
    60        some time) will try to get five farrowings in two years.

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