Day 019 - 27 Jul 94 - Page 69


     
     1
         Q.   How would that come about?  You know, what would somebody
     2        be doing to cause that to happen?
              A.  It may be what somebody is not doing to cause that to
     3        happen in some respects, but a situation, for example,
              might be where an animal gets an electric shock from the
     4        stunning equipment prior to being rendered insensible.
 
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Is that the beak in the water situation?
              A.  That would be one situation where that can occur for a
     6        very brief period before stunning.  Other ones would be
              where you have electric tongs, a pig in a pen, and it is
     7        not unknown for the slaughtermen to use that as an
              electric goad.  That, I think, is inhumane.
     8
         MS. STEEL:   Can you explain what happens when an animal gets
     9        electrically stunned, what happens to the animal?
              A.  Provided the animal is given enough current
    10        immediately, then it should be rendered unconscious -- if
              that is, I think, that is the gist of your question.
    11
         Q.   Right.
    12        A.  As to whether the stunning is instantaneous.  If it
              does not get enough current, you will find you have to
    13        apply current continuously and eventually you get to a
              stage where the animal will be stunned, will be rendered
    14        insensible.  During that intervening period, I think it is
              likely that the bird will be experiencing -- sorry, the
    15        bird or animal will be experiencing an electric shock.
 
    16   Q.   In your view, what is that current?
              A.  In which species?
    17
         Q.   Take the birds, for example?
    18        A.  For a broiler chicken?
 
    19   Q.   Yes.
              A.  We are doing some research on this this year, very
    20        topical research.  We are testing whether 120 milliamps
              per bird causes an instantaneous stun.  We are finding
    21        that it needs to be a higher current to cause an
              instantaneous stun in all birds than 120 milliamps.  At
    22        the moment we are recommending to cause an instantaneous
              stun 135 milliamps.  That may be open to correction as the
    23        experiment continues.
 
    24   Q.   So what you are saying is that the current state of your
              feeling at least -- and you are one of the leaders in the
    25        field -- is that something under 125 may cause -----
              A.  May not cause an instantaneous stun. 
    26 
         Q.   Which could cause pain, possibly? 
    27        A.  Yes.
 
    28   Q.   Is it right that the lower the level of current the fewer
              birds are likely to be properly stunned?
    29        A.  That is correct.
 
    30   Q.   What percentage of birds do you think would be stunned at
              120 milliamps?

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