Day 060 - 02 Dec 94 - Page 25
1 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, but that is a point you can perfectly
2 well make, but do not be over confident about it because,
3 for instance, a number of the things there are, I am afraid
4 -- no doubt through lack of my general knowledge -- rather
5 lost on me. If I can just take one example, because I have
6 not read through it altogether, but May 1981, this is a
7 point which might be taken against you, May 1981: "EPA
8 director, nominee, Ann Emberg(?) testifies at her
9 confirmation hearing that she has used the CFC ozone theory
10 is highly controversial", which I interpret her as saying
11 is far from proven or established. That may be, but I do
12 not know what is involved in confirmation hearings for an
13 EPA director. I do not know how widely they are
14 publicised, who knows about them or anything else. It is
15 just completely lost on me.
16
17 MR. MORRIS: If I may point out, in March 1983 she resigned from
18 the EPA.
19
20 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, I know. I can read those things.
21
22 MR. MORRIS: Yes, I understand that.
23
24 MR. JUSTICE BELL: They can be totally meaningless to me, that
25 is all. If it says, if we look back, for instance:
26 "October 1978, CFCs used in aerosols are banned in United
27 States". That does mean something to me, do you see?
28
29 MR. MORRIS: Yes. There are clearly governmental concerns.
30
31 THE WITNESS: I think I acknowledged that, Mr. Morris, in my
32 acknowledgment to you. I said I can accept some of the
33 dates and facts, but not everything.
34
35 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You have your answer. You can rely on it,
36 and we will see what impact it has with all the other
37 evidence at the end of the day.
38
39 MS. STEEL (To the witness): Mr. Oakley, when in 1986 did you
40 introduce CFCs into the packaging?
41 A. I cannot remember the exact date. I know it was 1986
42 but, exactly, I cannot remember.
43
44 Q. You do not know whether it was the beginning or end or
45 middle or what?
46 A. It may be documented somewhere. I would need to look
47 at that, but I cannot remember the exact date.
48
49 Q. You have no idea at all?
50 A. I have just said, I cannot remember the exact date.
51
52 Q. When do you say you first became aware of concerns about
53 CFCs in packaging in relation to damage to the ozone layer?
54 A. Well, I mentioned this earlier; I mentioned that in
55 August 1986 the 13 scientists went to the Antarctica. In
56 October 1986 they held a press conference, and thereafter
57 at some point -- I cannot remember exactly when -- but
58 I read a newspaper article on this whole subject which,
59 I guess, would have emanated from this press conference
60 which made me concerned.
