Day 093 - 28 Feb 95 - Page 16


     
     1   Q.   Would you accept:  "Laying hens have a well-developed
     2        nervous system and are sensitive to touch, temperature and
     3        pain"?
     4        A.  Very well developed, just like a chicken, yes, a normal
     5        chicken.
     6
     7   Q.   That they are sensitive to touch, temperature and pain as
     8        well, would you accept that?
     9        A.  The chickens are?
    10
    11   Q.   Yes.
    12        A.  I do not know why you ask me that question.
    13
    14   Q.   I am just asking whether you would agree with it?
    15        A.  Of course, yes.
    16
    17   Q.   OK.  Would you accept that a hen's beak is crucial for
    18        preening, exploring and feeding?
    19        A.  Yes, it is, the whole beak.
    20
    21   Q.   Would you accept that debeaked chickens show behaviour
    22        changes?
    23        A.  No, I would not accept that.
    24
    25   Q.   You would not?
    26        A.  If they are properly debeaked, no.
    27
    28   Q.   Would you accept that if the chickens had a third of their
    29        beak removed?
    30        A.  A third, yes.
    31
    32   Q.   You would accept that?
    33        A.  It could change their behaviour for the first hours,
    34        maybe a day or two.  But I have never seen it commercially
    35        done to that extent, so I cannot make a factual conclusion.
    36
    37   Q.   Would you agree then that something slightly less than a
    38        third but more than 1/64th of an inch would result in the
    39        chicken showing behaviour changes suggestive not only of
    40        short term but also long term pain?
    41        A.  No, if it is done well -- you are talking about a wide
    42        range.  You said between 1/64th and a third.  That is a big
    43        difference.
    44
    45   Q.   This 1/64th of an inch, is that a standard in the industry
    46        in the USA?
    47        A.  Yes, it is.
    48
    49   Q.   So you would be surprised to see something more than that,
    50        would you? 
    51        A.  Yes, I would. 
    52 
    53   Q.   Tysons are no better than any other firm in the
    54        country  ---
    55        A.  You are totally wrong.
    56
    57   Q.   -- as far as debeaking goes?
    58        A.  You have to look at the entire operation.  When you
    59        said Tyson and, as far as debeaking, I do not know what --
    60        you are asking a big question.  The entire chicken industry

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