Day 103 - 14 Mar 95 - Page 57


     
     1        the time we also had a lot of independent veterinary advice
     2        who said that it was perfectly all right.
     3
     4   Q.   Is there anybody who is on the premises who has a great
     5        deal of experience in this area, qualifications or
     6        whatever?
     7        A.  There are plenty of people with experience of stunning,
     8        electrical equipment and stunning, yes.
     9
    10   Q.   But in terms of actually going beyond just making
    11        observations?
    12        A.  No, not this kind of scientific detail.  Gregory is the
    13        only person I know who has actually done any of these kinds
    14        of measurements in the UK.
    15
    16   Q.   If that is the case, how can the MAFF just -- this
    17        derogation you have from the MAFF, is that in writing?
    18        A.  What derogation?
    19
    20   Q.   To be able to use, I think you said, I cannot remember
    21        exactly ----
    22        A.  As I understand it, a derogation is required for a
    23        point of law or for a specific order that is a legal
    24        requirement.  The stunning recommendation is no more than
    25        that, it is a code of practice.
    26
    27   Q.   So in actual fact, the MAFF cannot stop you if they want
    28        to?
    29        A.  The MAFF can stop us if they feel that we are not
    30        complying with the humane slaughter regulations which,
    31        basically, say that birds must be made unconscious until
    32        death supervenes.
    33
    34   Q.   But you are not aware of them having carried out any
    35        research into whether the birds do remain unconscious
    36        beyond making visual observations?
    37        A.  The MAFF have not done research on our system.  The
    38        MAFF do sponsor work on stunning, some of which probably
    39        Dr. Gregory has been sponsored by.
    40
    41   Q.   Well, if Dr. Gregory is not aware of any research on
    42        whether DC stunning is effective or not, does that mean
    43        there would not be any as far as you know?
    44        A.  I do not know.  You would have to speak to Dr. Gregory.
    45
    46   Q.   When you were giving evidence-in-chief you did actually say
    47        that the MAFF officials seemed satisfied with what they had
    48        seen and on that basis they were prepared to give you, Sun
    49        Valley that is, a derogation from working to the official
    50        code of practice. 
    51        A.  OK, if I said that. 
    52 
    53   Q.   So that was an error?
    54        A.  Am I saying anything different now?  No, I do not think
    55        so.
    56
    57   Q.   What percentage of birds miss the stunner now?
    58        A.  I could not say how many, but as I have said, we do
    59        have somebody in place to kill any birds that miss the
    60        stunner.

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