Day 295 - 06 Nov 96 - Page 16
1 So, really, we can treat it as if it does not exist, this
2 E.Coli testing and the tying up of the bung, as far as the
3 relevant dates in this case.
4
5 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Well, that is not surprising, because it was
6 not known that it was in this country, was it until
7 Preston, as far as I am aware?
8
9 MS. STEEL: I don't think there is any evidence that it was not
10 in this country, just that-----
11
12 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No, that it was not known that it was here.
13 It was known that it was in the United States. May be
14 I have missed something, but I am not aware on the evidence
15 -- someone may remind me if I have forgotten something --
16 that E.Coli 0157H had been identified in this country
17 before Preston.
18
19 MR. MORRIS: I am sure it had been. I am not sure if it was
20 identified in burgers or not. But one point was that, of
21 course, the US problem of E.Coli was not communicated, as
22 we have heard, to the UK -----
23
24 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You have a point there. What I don't think
25 I had any evidence on was how easily these things come
26 across great oceans, where people can transfer them to
27 cattle and cattle can transfer them to people. I know that
28 people can transfer food poisoning organisms to food, and
29 food can transfer them to people. I know it goes that way,
30 backwards and forwards. Did we have any real evidence
31 about that?
32
33 MR. MORRIS: I can't remember now. Dr. North may have given
34 some kind of historical background. I can't remember now.
35
36 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No. Well, I have got to re-read Dr. North
37 anyway.
38
39 MR. MORRIS: Yes, OK. (Pause) I am just checking my notes
40 here. Dr. North gave -- it is on page 21, the last
41 reference -- indications about the amount of testing that
42 would have to be done to find E.Coli if it was present.
43
44 MR JUSTICE BELL: Yes, I remember that. Which page is that on
45 in the notes?
46
47 MR. MORRIS: Page 21, at the bottom. The point being that if
48 they did find E.Coli on a couple of occasions, and if they,
49 as they have admitted, had done the kind of substantial
50 testing which was genuinely trying to seek if E.Coli was
51 present, it may have been found a hundred or a thousand
52 times for all we know. It is significant that it was found
53 twice despite completely inadequate searches. (Pause)
54
55 Anyway, continuing to go through the document. Page 53,
56 the further reference up from the bottom, or the references
57 at the bottom, really -- in fact, the whole of that page --
58 from David Walker about the criteria of satisfactory,
59 passable and unsatisfactory for beef supplies and, as we
60 know now, beef arriving in an unsatisfactory category and
