Day 251 - 17 May 96 - Page 18


     
     1        did the exercise.  From Mr. Morganti's list -- in fact
     2        there are 110 names here on Mr. Morganti's list
     3        -- one can find just about half on the Morganti map.  I
     4        will in due course provide a copy for everybody.  If one
     5        wanted know where all the rest of the places were one would
     6        have to get a much larger scale map I suspect.  Whether
     7        that is worth doing or not in due course is a matter for
     8        the parties.
     9
    10   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You can help me in this respect.  For
    11        instance, the three most northern ones which I have found,
    12        which does not mean to they are the most northerly ones, if
    13        one looks at the pink line which is the present northern
    14        border of the State of Goias, there is one at San Miguel or
    15        Araguaia, which is where there is an airport.  There is one
    16        another at Porangatu where there is...  I say an airport,
    17        an airstrip at least, and there is another at Minacu.
    18
    19   MR. RAMPTON:  Minacu, it has a cedilla on it.  On that river my
    20        Lord, yes.  Then the two next most northerly Novo Mundo and
    21        Mara Rosa.  Novo Mundo is more or less due south of San
    22        Miguel and Mara Rosa is just off the B157... I can spend
    23        many a happy hour with a highlighting pen going through the
    24        list and highlighting various places.
    25
    26   MR. MORRIS:  Assuming that when we have all got our yellow
    27        highlighter pens and done that exercise, or whatever
    28        Mr. Rampton has copied, that all over what is now Goias
    29        State where McDonald's are receiving supplies or McDonald's
    30        are making products from supplies of beef raised in those
    31        areas, and bearing in mind the Pastoral Land Commission's
    32        information provided, which you said was the tip of an
    33        iceberg, would you say that land conflicts are a
    34        substantial problem in Goias State and have been a
    35        substantial problem in Goias State?
    36        A.  Yes, certainly.  Particularly along the whole Araguaia
    37        River.  One of the places, San Miguel, Araguaia, I visited
    38        and that is up the region, up the River Araguaia which I
    39        know well where we were talking about Xavantino which is
    40        near there, all that region was an area of dense tropical
    41        forest and has had a lot of conflict.
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Where is that?
    44        A.  San Miguel leads to Araguaia which is the one that you
    45        mentioned.
    46
    47   MR. MORRIS:  It is the one, the most northern-most point.
    48
    49   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just describe it again I was making a note
    50        along the what river? 
    51        A.  The Araguaia River, the river marked pink on your map. 
    52 
    53   MR. MORRIS:  That is the border I think?
    54        A.  Have you got the same map?
    55
    56   MS. STEEL:   It is the river as well.
    57
    58   MR. RAMPTON:  A branch of the Araguaia, my Lord, starts at the
    59        airport of San Miguel do Araguaia it would appear.
    60        A.  The Araguaia River begins actually further south.  The

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