Day 005 - 04 Jul 94 - Page 75


     
     1        exactly what they said they were going to do in totality;
              not more; just what they said they were going to do.
     2
         Q.   At each store level?
     3        A.  Every individual store.
 
     4   Q.   But here we have for Fatima Heron's store in Newcastle, we
              have a situation where people are from higher positions,
     5        supervisor, regional managers, are phoning up regularly
              and I believe you used the phrase I read out "As we do for
     6        every store"?
              A.  Yes.
     7
         Q.   Basically saying: How come you are not increasing your
     8        sales?
              A.  Yes.  I would guess the plan was to grow them and they
     9        were not.  So what is going on?  A perfectly logical
              question.  When someone is not doing what they said they
    10        were going to do, it is a perfectly logical question.
 
    11   Q.   We are also having messages from higher up in the region
              to other store managers saying: You should be decreasing
    12        your labour costs?
              A.  Maybe they should in relation to what they said they
    13        were going to do.  I do not have the basic point here.
 
    14   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I am not sure, you may be right, but I am
              not sure that is so.  It is not, it appears to me, simply
    15        a question of decreasing labour costs.  It is getting the
              turnover, which means that your labour costs are,
    16        therefore, 16 per cent rather than 18 per cent. The costs
              may stay the same.
    17
         MR. MORRIS:  With respect, you cannot separate the two.  On the
    18        one hand there is communication at least to try to get
              increased sales; at the same time there is communication
    19        to try to decrease labour costs.  Other words, the profit
              margin would increase.
    20
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You may in the course of the case
    21        demonstrate that the pressure was to lower the hourly
              rate, but until such time as you do that, it seems to me
    22        that the pressure is really to get the turnover up so that
              whatever the costs are come out at 16 to 18 per cent.
    23        Maybe I am wrong about that; we will see.  It could be
              either one way or the other, could it not?
    24
         MR. MORRIS:  Well, it could be.
    25
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Is there a document which says you ought not 
    26        to be paying 4 pounds an hour, you ought to be paying 
              3.50? 
    27
         MR. MORRIS:  Well, the wage rates are nationally set, but the
    28        pressure is on -- that will come through the whole
              employment section.  I do not want to reveal our
    29        cross-examination points, but we have clearly a situation
              where managers are being told to decrease their labour
    30        costs as a percentage.  What I want to ask Mr. Preston is,
              following this incident with Fatima Heron, which we all

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