Day 101 - 10 Mar 95 - Page 58


     
     1   Q.   But you would recognise that the animals that are reared
     2        for McDonald's are not able to do all of those things?
     3        A.  No, I would not recognise that at all.
     4
     5   Q.   For example, chickens in the battery cages are not able to
     6        dust bathe which is a normal pattern of behaviour, we have
     7        heard?
     8        A.  It is a normal pattern of behaviour for farmyard hens,
     9        yes, but I do not know whether it is a normal pattern of
    10        behaviour for a hen that is bred specifically for use in
    11        battery cages.
    12
    13   Q.   You mean one that has spent its whole life in a battery
    14        cage?
    15        A.  Yes, and had generations before it that have done the
    16        same.
    17
    18   Q.   So you are defining "normal" as what they are used to, are
    19        you?
    20        A.  I would say freedom to express patterns of behaviour,
    21        normal patterns of behaviour, yes -- patterns of behaviour
    22        that they would normally express.
    23
    24   Q.   Yes, but when you say "normally", you are judging that in
    25        respect of what they are able to express because of their
    26        conditions?  For example, if you starve a chicken all its
    27        life, it is normal for a chicken not to have anything to
    28        eat, but that would not mean that it was all right, would
    29        it?
    30        A.  No, I think what "normal" means is that the environment
    31        or the method of keeping should not restrict it from any
    32        patterns of behaviour that it would express.
    33
    34   Q.   That were natural to its species?
    35        A.  That were natural to that particular breed of chicken.
    36
    37   Q.   So, if battery chickens did carry out dust-bathing when
    38        they were released from battery cages, you would consider
    39        that that is something that would be normal behaviour for a
    40        battery chicken?
    41        A.  If that was what they did, then I would guess that --
    42        if that is what they did regularly, yes, that would be a
    43        normal -- what I would say, I guess, a normal pattern of
    44        behaviour.
    45
    46   Q.   So, if that is what happens when chickens are released from
    47        battery cages, that would concern you then that because
    48        they were in the battery cages they were not able to
    49        express normal patterns of behaviour?
    50        A.  Well, it is a hypothetical question, is it not?  I 
    51        mean, it is my understanding that that is not the case and 
    52        so it does not concern me. 
    53
    54   Q.   In case we do hear evidence that it is the case, would it
    55        concern you then that the battery system was limiting the
    56        birds' freedom to express normal patterns of behaviour?
    57        A.  It would be a cause of some concern.
    58
    59   Q.   Would you then instruct your suppliers to stop using
    60        battery cages?

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