Day 020 - 28 Jul 94 - Page 50


     
     1   Q.   With those two, are there welfare problems, in your
              opinion?
     2        A.  There are distinct problems with the one which is used
              in Eastern Block countries, the first one.
     3
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What are we on electric stunning for?
     4
         MR. MORRIS:  Because some of McDonald's suppliers in other
     5        countries do use electric stunning.  I just want to have
              an idea of what that was.
     6
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I must say I thought your case concentrated
     7        on the captive bolt and the cow puncher.  Those were the
              two mentioned.  But you want to rely on electric stunning
     8        as well, do you?
 
     9   MR. MORRIS:  I am interested to see what Mr. Gregory says are
              the welfare problems of electric stunning.
    10
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I hope I have made it clear that I do not
    11        want to restrict you unduly, but if you focused everyone
              in a point like the captive bolt, I am a bit wary of then
    12        moving off on to topics we have not heard of at all.  Do
              you understand?
    13
         MR. MORRIS:  Yes.  (To the witness):  Your opinion is the
    14        captive bolt pistol has better welfare implications, yes,
              than other methods?
    15        A.  Let us just consider the United Kingdom, shall we, if
              we are going to make generalisations?
    16
         Q.   Yes.
    17
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The United Kingdom is your particular area
    18        of expertise -- I am not suggesting you do not know a lot
              about other parts of the world -- is that fair?
    19        A.  I have seen slaughter in many countries.
 
    20   Q.   Very well, yes.
              A.  The electrical stunning system that was developed in
    21        New Zealand is, in my view, a very satisfactory way of
              stunning cattle.  So, the captive bolt system is also,
    22        when it works properly, a very satisfactory method of
              stunning animals.  However, it is not always applied
    23        successfully -- less so than electrical stunning.
 
    24   MR. MORRIS:  Just to complete that:  The method used in the
              Eastern Block countries would not be satisfactory from
    25        your point of view?
              A.  The way I have seen it practised, both first hand and 
    26        seen it on video, I would say in some situations it is 
              inhumane. 
    27
         Q.   Did you check the weapons that were used in the captive
    28        bolt?
              A.  I did not inspect them closely.  I inspected the
    29        ammunition closely, cartridges.
 
    30   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That was to see how many grains they were,
              was it?

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