Day 008 - 07 Jul 94 - Page 42


     
     1
              The next question, Mr. Langert, is this:  When did it
     2        first come to your attention, as the chief Perseco person
              in environmental matters and responsible for all of
     3        McDonald's polystyrene foam packaging, that HCFC-22 might
              not be quite so benign or, at any rate, unmaligned as had
     4        been thought?
              A.  Well, we always knew it was a 95 per cent improvement
     5        and we knew there was still a five per cent ozone
              depletion effect.  So, from the very beginning, we knew
     6        that there was an interim step and our strategy, and
              I worked and spent a very significant amount of time in
     7        late 1989 and 1990 pursuing options and alternatives other
              than HCFC-22.
     8
              As time progressed through 1989 and 1990 our research
     9        activities accelerated because there was research that was
              coming out every year that seemed to indicate that 22
    10        might be a larger problem than even the 95 per cent
              improvement, and that helped stimulate us to research even
    11        harder.
 
    12   Q.   Tell me if this is right, in other words, you kept an eye
              on it?
    13        A.  Well, more than an eye.  We kept it as one of our top
              priorities in terms of research and development.
    14
         Q.   In view of the fact that you also told us that the use of
    15        HCFC-22 as a blowing agent for McDonald's of polystyrene
              foam was not a factor in the change over from polystyrene
    16        foam to paper, can we then say that the change over
              motivated by other considerations was simply a happy
    17        coincidence?
              A.  Correct.
    18
         Q.   When did you first learn that HCFC-22 might be as damaging
    19        in a different way as CFCs had been recognised to be?
              A.  My recollection is sometime in 1990 the Montreal
    20        Protocol was continually being updated, redrafted and
              resubmitted.  My recollection is in 1990 I think there was
    21        some mention of HCFC-22 now being under the list that
              would be eliminated somewhere long down the line.  It
    22        ended up on the elimination list.
 
    23   Q.   Since, so far as the United States was concerned, the
              decision had already been made to change out of
    24        polystyrene foam and into paper?
              A.  That is my recollection, is that actually when that
    25        came out we had made our decision to phase out of foam
              packaging.  Our solution became rather apparent because we 
    26        switched to paper-based wraps. 
  
    27   Q.   That is the United States?
              A.  Yes.
    28
         Q.   In one sense could describe it perhaps, as a happy
    29        coincidence, but in other parts of the world there was no
              decision to change from polystyrene foam to paper, some
    30        parts of the world like Latin America as we have seen.
              What was the concern in those countries where HCFC-22 was

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