Day 154 - 13 Jul 95 - Page 33


     
     1        put it quite deliberately to previous witnesses.
     2
     3   MS. STEEL:  It may be one, it may be the other, it may be a
     4        combination of both.  The important point is that it is
     5        high and that that does provide some benefits for
     6        McDonald's which I have given examples of.
     7
     8   MR. RAMPTON:  I sometimes despair.  My Lord, there is quite a
     9        lot of law about this.  At some stage -- not now --
    10        I will wish to make a submission to your Lordship, based on
    11        authority, that what Ms. Steel has just said is, in fact,
    12        not permissible.
    13
    14   MS. STEEL:  Let Mr. Rampton find the authorities.  I think that
    15        is ridiculous.
    16
    17   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  By all means do that.  But at the end of the
    18        day I have to decide whether the suggestions which have
    19        been put make any sense, in any event, on the evidence
    20        I have heard and my general knowledge of the ways of the
    21        world and, generally, how much use people are when they
    22        first start.
    23
    24   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, I understand that.  It is slightly more
    25        important than just -- of course I understand all that, and
    26        in many ways I am entirely content to leave it to
    27        your Lordship.  But the Court of Appeal has said that a
    28        defendant is not allowed to put in a wishy-washy -- it is
    29        called a Lucas-Box plea, because it comes from case of
    30        Lucas-Box Newspapers in the Court of Appeal 1986 -- a
    31        wishy-washy defence of that kind, leaving the door open to
    32        choose what line he or she will take when the evidence has
    33        finished.
    34
    35        The reason for that is clear:  because they have to put a
    36        case to the Plaintiffs' witnesses so that the Plaintiffs'
    37        witnesses know what the allegation is they are dealing
    38        with.  If the allegation be that McDonald's are
    39        deliberately securing or engineering a high turnover for
    40        basic commercial reasons, then that is the case to which
    41        they must adhere.
    42
    43   MS. STEEL:  Can I just say, it strikes me that this is pretty
    44        much on a parallel with the pleading of the Plaintiffs
    45        which says something like:  "Either we deliberately put
    46        false information or we were reckless about it." There is
    47        an either/or there.  They have not been forced to specify
    48        are they saying we were deliberate or were we reckless.  As
    49        far as I can see, we do not have to specify.
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I can remember the effect of what Mr. Morris 
    52        has put to previous witnesses; and to some at least it was 
    53        quite clear that it was conscious policy of McDonald's.
    54        But I am going to put it to you in various ways, and I will
    55        hear argument, if need be, later.
    56
    57        (To the witness)  What is suggested as one of the
    58        suggestions is that McDonald's consciously seek to achieve
    59        a situation whereby employees leave sooner rather than
    60        later, because that suits them.  What do you say about

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