Day 238 - 22 Apr 96 - Page 22
1
2 Q. And the second trip was what year?
3 A. The second trip was 1992.
4
5 Q. Yes?
6 A. That took me to Maranhao to Amazonas to Para to
7 Roraima to Rondonia and Acre.
8
9 Q. Those last ones you mentioned are all in the northern
10 swathe, are they are not, and Roraima where your spent your
11 14 months before joining Survival is right up in the north
12 and next to Venezuela is it not?
13 A. Yes.
14
15 Q. That was the second trip. What about the third trip?
16 A. The third trip, again Roraima, Amazonas and Para.
17
18 Q. Right. Do I understand from that that your personal
19 knowledge of Mato Grosso do Sul is negligible?
20 A. No, I have not been to Mato Grosso do Sul. I have
21 been to Mato Grosso.
22
23 Q. Yes, I understand. We cross the border into Amazonas Legal
24 more or less at the border of Mato Grosso and Mato Grosso
25 do Sul; do we not?
26 A. Yes.
27
28 Q. So you have not actually ever been to Mato Grosso do Sul?
29 A. No, I have not, but I would say that in a number of
30 cases we work on at Survival, for various reasons, it is
31 not possible to go to a country.
32
33 Q. All right?
34 A. So as a means of getting evidence we have a lot of
35 contacts on the ground.
36
37 Q. I understand. This is by no means a criticism,
38 Miss Watson, but we do have certain rules of evidence in
39 these Courts. Can I ask you this: I suppose it is
40 absolutely, of course, now. Everything you have told us
41 about the problems you have recounted relating to the
42 indigenous peoples of Mato Grosso do Sul, and in
43 particular, the Guarani, have been reported to you by one
44 route or another; is that right?
45 A. That is correct, yes.
46
47 Q. Have you actually spoken to any of the leaders of those
48 indigenous groups in that State of Brazil?
49 A. No, not in that State.
50
51 Q. So there may be geographical errors, for example, in this
52 map which is not something you can help me with; is it?
53 A. In this map?
54
55 Q. Yes?
56 A. I should say that this organization here has the
57 latest in technology, satellite technology, to produce
58 these maps and I would find it extremely strange if it was
59 not correct particularly because a lot of their sources if
60 you look in the accompanying 3 pages come from the
