Day 130 - 26 May 95 - Page 17
1 A. It is.
2
3 Q. So that is an inherently hazardous situation, is it not, in
4 terms of the use of a fat filtering unit? If the unit
5 became live for whatever reason, it would be (as it turned
6 out in this case) an extremely hazardous setup.
7 A. Well, if one piece of equipment becomes live, anything
8 else that is earthed that somebody is going to put
9 themselves in-between would give rise to a hazardous
10 situation, so I cannot disagree with what you are saying.
11
12 Q. Just going on to safety culture on page 4, in general
13 terms, and there are exceptions. "Safety is not seen as
14 being important at store level. It could not happen to
15 us/me, is a common attitude amongst employees. Employees
16 are told not to tamper with equipment, to report faults to
17 a manager and that electricity can kill. Yet without a
18 supporting safety culture where appropriate resources are
19 allocated and employees can see the theory supported by
20 example the safety message becomes diluted and confused."
21
22 There was a thing here about -- I cannot remember where it
23 was -- about managers. You said in your evidence --
24 I think it was in-chief -- that this was an example, this
25 incident, where managers had not been -- the words used
26 were -- "brave enough" to seek the funding they would need
27 for safety. Why should managers have to be brave when they
28 are asking for funds for safety matters, or why did they at
29 that time have to be brave?
30 A. I think part of my frustration there was that, as you
31 will have seen, various memos have gone out beforehand to
32 restaurant managers, just explaining to them how important
33 electrical safety, in particular, was. My frustration was
34 that the message just did not seem to have got through, and
35 that perhaps the management team in this particular store
36 had felt, for some reason, that they could not spend the
37 money on those electrical repairs. Now, I do not know what
38 the ins and outs of that were.
39
40 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I think what is being put to you is that
41 there was such a feeling of not spending any more than you
42 have to in order to make the profit margin as wide as
43 possible, that managers were inhibited from coming forward
44 and saying: "We really need this or need that". That is
45 the way I have to say I interpreted -- perhaps not quite as
46 strongly as I have just put it -- your comment the other
47 day on this manager or manageress' view?
48 A. I suppose my best guess (and it is a guess) would be
49 that she felt if she spent the money that she would have
50 some negative feedback from her immediate supervisor.
51
52 MR. MORRIS: If we go on to page 5, it is the middle paragraph
53 starting: "Although it is not thought..." It says the EHO
54 and Vince Kelly have concerns about aspects of the
55 filtering machine, the design. Do you share those
56 concerns?
57 A. Well, yes, we shared them at the time. Since then all
58 machines have been retrofitted. As I said, there was the
59 additional heat shield at the bottom, as well. Obviously
60 we have taken that machine in good faith from the
