Day 034 - 11 Oct 94 - Page 19
1 specifically removed the fibre.
2
3 On the other hand meats, including poultry and dairy
4 products and eggs, all animal products are zero fibre. To
5 put it another way, animal products never contain any
6 fibre. Virtually all animals products contain a very
7 substantial amount of fat. The very leanest beef is about
8 30 per cent of its calories as fat; many times that in
9 common vegetables or cereal grains. A hamburger is well
10 over half fat.
11
12 MR. MORRIS: But is it possible for someone to have a high fat,
13 high fibre diet theoretically?
14 A. Yes, it is theoretically possible if fat is added to
15 vegetables or to grains.
16
17 Q. Is that common, in your experience?
18 A. It is uncommon in international comparisons, but it is
19 possible if a person takes vegetable matter and fries them
20 or adds large amounts of vegetable oil or, for example,
21 french fries, something like that, you can have something
22 that contains fibre but has a lot of fat added to it.
23
24 Q. Can we leave that colon cancer table? I have not got the
25 book in front of me.
26
27 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. I will read this more thoroughly
28 later, but, just looking at page 207, it says, "Protective
29 effects have been found in two case-control studies that
30 examined the relative risk for a high fat/low fibre
31 diet". It refers to Dales in 78, which is the only one
32 which appears in the high fibre/low fat column, and
33 Manousos and Others in 83, which appears in the vegetables
34 column.
35
36 So, if we had a high fat/low fibre diet, high fat/low
37 fibre column -- I want to make sure I have not
38 misunderstood it because I am looking at it for the first
39 time -- if we had a high fat/low fibre column, a minus
40 would appear next to Dales and Manousos in that column; is
41 that right?
42 A. If it were a high fat/low fibre column?
43
44 Q. If there were a high fat/low fibre column, if there were a
45 fifth column stuck on the end in the margin, does it
46 follow, from the penultimate sentence of the paragraph
47 above "Animal Studies" on page 207, that we would find a
48 minus against Dales and a minus against Manousos?
49 A. Not from my reading, my Lord.
50
51 Q. What does that sentence mean to you: "Protective effects
52 have been found in two case-control studies that examined
53 the relative risk for a high fat/low fibre diet"?
54 A. I am not sure. I am having difficulty understanding
55 what he is referring to by "protective effects" since he
56 is talking about the earlier part of that paragraph.
57
58 Q. Would that not be an inverse relationship or do you think
59 it means something else?
60 A. I am not sure when he talks about protective effects;
