Day 056 - 28 Nov 94 - Page 62


     
     1        A.  Yes, I mean one can conceive of such a situation, yes,
     2        that is possible.
     3
     4   Q.   You do not know, do you, where mills that supply McDonald's
     5        suppliers are based in Europe, generally, apart from the
     6        two examples which you have given?  Do you know of any
     7        other examples?
     8        A.  We know of pulp mills that -- here again I think
     9        perhaps you ought to ask Mr. Bateman this because he has
    10        looked into the situation of individual mills.  I can speak
    11        of direct experience in the case of our forest enterprise
    12        suppliers in the UK and direct experience in the case of
    13        Enso-Gutzeit at Imatra which is a very significant supplier
    14        particularly of the polar cup product.
    15
    16   Q.   For what?
    17        A.  Polar cup -- the thing you drink out of, I believe.
    18
    19   Q.   They would be based near?
    20        A.  Imatra, north of Helsinki.
    21
    22   Q.   That does not apply in the question I was asking, though,
    23        about whether they would be based near plantations that
    24        were fairly recently -----
    25        A.  No, they are based in an area which has naturally
    26        regenerated many, many times over, over literally hundreds
    27        of years.
    28
    29   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What about the UK?
    30        A.  Well, UK really in regard to McDonald's, Iggesund and
    31        the converters in England, using both imported material and
    32        British material, are the only source that McDonald's,
    33        I understand, are using.  Certainly, Iggesund which is the
    34        one which is using the British forest resource is buying on
    35        this basis and that is why those figures were used.
    36
    37   Q.   You see, I think it is being put to you that mills in the
    38        UK producing pulp which becomes McDonald's packaging are,
    39        in some instances, not drawn in anything like the
    40        proportions which you have put between thinnings and clear
    41        cuttings.  That is what is being suggested to you.  What is
    42        the situation?  I can follow, if that hypothesis were
    43        right, I can work out for myself what the consequences may
    44        be, but is it right?
    45        A.  Well, to the extent that I can go, which is from the
    46        point of view of the forest, discussing it with Swedish and
    47        Finnish forestry people who are supplying the industry that
    48        makes this packaging, these calculations were to them both
    49        reasonable and a good representation.
    50 
    51        It would be, obviously, possible to find out, as quite 
    52        clearly Enso-Gutzeit has provided information of their own 
    53        kind, what a whole range of different mills actually did
    54        use.  But the logic of a mixture of thinnings and of the
    55        top ends of clearfelled forest when it becomes mature but,
    56        nonetheless, plantation or regenerated forest, is sort of
    57        fundamental to the European supply for this purpose.
    58
    59   MR. MORRIS:  In Mr. Bateman's statement on page 2 of his
    60        statement he says under "Wood Sources", this is a

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