Day 036 - 13 Oct 94 - Page 41


     
     1        which clearly causes cancer, some individuals will be
     2        protected by various factors.  That is certainly true in
     3        cigarette smoking where most smokers do not develop
     4        cancer.  There may be other factors that are protective or
     5        may be factors that are protective against dietary factors
     6        that would otherwise increase the risk of cancer.
     7
     8        The fact that something -- if something is identified that
     9        indeed does cause cancer that does not mean that it will
    10        do so in every individual, and it may be more appropriate
    11        to say that for any given individual it may cause cancer,
    12        just as cigarettes may or may not cause cancer in a
    13        smoker.
    14
    15   Q.   When all is said and done, do you agree with the statement
    16         "in reality, animal models are woefully inadequate to
    17        meet the challenge of offering definitive answers to a
    18        complicated area of research as in human nutrition and
    19        cancer aetiology"?
    20        A.  Let me take a minute to read it a second time.  Can
    21        you point me out to?
    22
    23   Q.   If you go up about ten lines from the very bottom of the
    24        Conclusion?
    25        A.  I see.
    26
    27   Q.   It starts in the middle of a line.
    28        A.  Yes, I would agree with that statement, because animal
    29        models or the use animals in experimentation cannot
    30        provide definitive answers with the emphasis on
    31        definitive.  Yes, I would agree with his statements.
    32
    33   MS. STEEL:   Can I just ask what the purpose of the last 20
    34        minutes was?  I was not aware that the Plaintiffs were
    35        asserting that all McDonald's customers had children, so
    36        I do not really see that it has much relevance.
    37
    38   MR. RAMPTON:  I am sorry Ms. Steel does not like it, my Lord,
    39        but I am afraid that I see that it is very central to this
    40        case.
    41
    42   MS. STEEL:  I just think it seems like a waste of time.
    43
    44   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I am sorry.  I cannot accept that.  One of
    45        the issues maybe whether it is or was at any time agreed
    46        medical fact that certain things were so, or whether the
    47        most one can say is that some things have been promoted,
    48        have evidence query strong, query not in support of them,
    49        but that there is remaining extensive debate.
    50 
    51   MS. STEEL:  I thought they were debating whether it applied to 
    52        rats that had had children. 
    53
    54   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, you can argue it in due course.  One has
    55        to say that we have had an awful lot of evidence in this
    56        area of nutrition which may or may not at the end of the
    57        day turn out to be relevant to what the issues are.  But
    58        since our system of conducting these cases is not, for
    59        instance, to decide what the meaning of a statement which
    60        has been alleged to be defamatory is until the end of the

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