Day 180 - 31 Oct 95 - Page 40


     
     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No.  How is that relevant?
     2
     3   THE WITNESS:   Well -----
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   I am not interested in political matters of
     6        that kind.  I just want to know whether people who work for
     7        McDonald's can be said to be low paid or not.
     8
     9   MR. MORRIS:  If they get State benefits of Family Credit and
    10        housing benefit on top of their low wages, the State is
    11        effectively subsidising the employer.
    12
    13   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is not of any interest to me, so far as
    14        this leaflet is concerned.  If the leaflet had said the
    15        state subsidises McDonald's, it might have been a different
    16        matter.
    17
    18   THE WITNESS:  And so what I have tried to show on page 18 of the
    19        book were exactly the kind of cross-industry comparisons
    20        which I was asked about just a moment ago where -----
    21
    22   MR. MORRIS:  We have not got page 18.  If you just give us your
    23        opinion?
    24        A.  OK.  There is plenty of evidence to show that by
    25        occupation, in a way you have the New Earnings Survey able
    26        to show earnings by occupation, the catering, the classic
    27        catering, jobs of waiting, chef, bar staff and so forth,
    28        they appear among the lowest 10 male occupations by pay,
    29        and the same catering jobs appear among the lowest female
    30        occupations by pay.  That was true in 1983 when I looked at
    31        the figures first and it is true in 1985.
    32
    33   Q.   1995?
    34        A.  95.  The low pay league, as I called it, the jobs are
    35        still down the bottom, the same jobs are still down the
    36        bottom of the league.
    37
    38   Q.   If we come onto the Catering Review Group, it is actually a
    39        document entitled G2.  I am not sure, I think this might
    40        have been behind Lynn Mead's statement as well.  It is the
    41        one entitled "External survey of hourly rates".  Have you
    42        got Lynn Mead there?  I presume it is behind her, if
    43        someone can help me on that?  It is G2.
    44        A.  Yes.
    45
    46   Q.   If the court can help me, I believe this document is all
    47        based on the Catering Review Group which, if you look on
    48        the back page, talks about the survey sample.  "The survey
    49        is compiled by the Catering Review Group comprising of the
    50        following organisations".  Can you just give us a view of 
    51        what the Catering Review Group is? 
    52        A.  Yes, the Catering Review Group referred to on page 12 
    53        of the document, this is, well, this is a pay club, this is
    54        premium information.  In fact, I would describe it as gold
    55        dust actually in terms of pay intelligence.  The Pay Review
    56        Group, in fact, I was amazed to see this information here
    57         -- amazed because the Pay Review Group -- the Catering
    58         -----
    59
    60   Q.   The Catering Review Group.

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