Day 009 - 08 Jul 94 - Page 32


     
     1        HCFCs?
              A.  Well, first -----
     2
         Q.   Since 1990?
     3        A.  Well, first HCFCs are not CFCs.  That is an important
              distinction to make.  CFCs are fully halogenated.  HCFCs
     4        are not so.  So, given that distinction, I think you heard
              evidence on that -- you will hear further evidence of that
     5        in the future.  We are very pleased that at this point in
              time we have just a handful of countries using HCFC-22.
     6        I am convinced that within a short, relatively short,
              period of time, ahead of everybody else in our industry,
     7        way ahead of the Montreal Protocol, that we will complete
              our transition.
     8
         Q.   Mr. Langert, this was four years ago when -- I cannot
     9        remember whether it was 21 countries were using HCFCs --
              you knew it was still damaging the ozone layer or
    10        contributing to damaging the ozone layer, yet it is still
              happening, so why do you tolerate it?
    11        A.  The HCFCs were, to our knowledge at the time we made
              the switch, 95 per cent improvement of the ozone depletion
    12        factor.  As you saw yesterday, there was great support
              even from the environmental community for our switch.  So
    13        our whole plan of action was to convert the system of
              McDonald's to non-fully halogenated CFCs immediately,
    14        convert to a combination of HCFC-22 and pentane to
              minimise our environmental impact, and also based on the
    15        fact that we still knew there was a five per cent ozone
              depletion effect.  It was our longer term strategy to
    16        completely phase out of 22 as quickly as possible.
 
    17   Q.   So if, as a result of damage to the ozone layer by CFC
              production -- and McDonald's is only a percentage of that,
    18        fair enough -- that several hundreds of millions of people
              contract skin cancer, for example, would you feel that you
    19        have been responsible for that?
              A.  No.
    20
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  If you have a suggestion you think
    21        McDonald's should have done and, furthermore, if you are
              going to suggest they should not have used either CFCs or
    22        HCFCs, you have a suggestion of what they should have done
              as an alternative, then I think you should put that to the
    23        witness.
 
    24   MR. RAMPTON:  Might I intervene at this stage?  It is something
              I could raise in re-examination but for Mr. Morris it
    25        might be too late.  The word "responsible" was a bit of a
              weazle word; as having caused something it is one thing, 
    26        as being morally responsible it means another. 
  
    27   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I had taken it to mean the former.  I had
              taken it to mean as being put as the former; is that how
    28        you understood it?
              A.  "Former" meaning what again?
    29
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Actually caused or contributed to the cause?
    30        A.  That is how I took it also; correct.
 

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