Day 181 - 01 Nov 95 - Page 29


     
     1        overtime are people who have a number of performance review
     2        rises under their belt; assume that for a moment, would
     3        you?
     4        A.  Sure.
     5
     6   MR. MORRIS:  We were stopped asking hypothetical questions,
     7        especially ones that are completely idiotic.
     8
     9   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is not idiotic, and I am afraid you are
    10        beginning to do what Ms. Steel got cross with Mr. Rampton
    11        for doing, and which I have to say I got cross, perhaps
    12        excessively cross, with Mr. Rampton for doing a few days
    13        ago, that is, answering the question from the well of the
    14        court rather than letting the witness.  If the witness
    15        cannot draw the conclusion, he will say so, as he did in
    16        relation to the last question
    17
    18   MR. MORRIS:  OK.
    19
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  As I said to Mr. Rampton the other week,
    21        please let the witness give the evidence.
    22
    23   MR. RAMPTON:  Mr. Morris does not have a wig, my Lord.  That is
    24        his only advantage in this situation.
    25
    26   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Anyway I have made the point more than once
    27        now.
    28
    29   MR. RAMPTON:  Mr. Morris, in due course, will be allowed to give
    30        evidence if he wants to do so.  Can we follow on from that
    31        assumption which I ask you to make?  If that is right,
    32        Mr. Pearson, then it would be a necessary conclusion, would
    33        it not, that for such people they would almost always be
    34        getting as much as or more than the statutory obligation as
    35        laid down up until 1993?
    36        A.  The assumption that you -- I cannot answer the question
    37        because the assumption on which the question is based, it
    38        says:  "Assume that the majority of full-timers have
    39        performance increases".  If you do make that assumption,
    40        the question is, their rate would be beyond the statutory
    41        minimum.
    42
    43        Now, the statutory minimum should apply before the
    44        performance system applies.  I mean, unless I have
    45        completely gone adrift of your point ---
    46
    47   Q.   No, no.
    48        A.  -- the statutory system, if I may finish, is the
    49        foundation stone for the merit system.  So, every employee,
    50        full-time or part-time, needs to be paid more than the -- 
    51        at least on the floor of the statutory, and then the merit 
    52        system comes in after every -- sorry, after four months 
    53        possibly, depending on performance.
    54
    55   Q.   But, so far as overtime is concerned, Mr. Pearson, what
    56        matters is that people who are at the statutory minimum do
    57        not work hours for which they do not get paid the statutory
    58        overtime or more.  That is the important thing, is it not?
    59        A.  I think there were too many negatives in that.
    60

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