Day 125 - 12 May 95 - Page 40


     
     1   Q.   I am sorry, Mr. Beavers.  I have a specific reason for
     2        asking about the ice cheating?
     3        A.  OK.
     4
     5   Q.   That is all I am asking you about at the moment.  As
     6        I understand it, you would have thought closer to a dozen
     7        than one or two suppliers were sacked because it was
     8        discovered they were packing ice into patties?
     9        A.  That is correct.
    10
    11   Q.   And that happened during the late 60s and 70s?
    12        A.  It would have been during that period of time.
    13
    14   Q.   I am merely asking if you can tell me, or give some kind of
    15        sound opinion, as to how long it had been going on for.  If
    16        you cannot just say so?
    17        A.  I would say that in some instances it had gone on for a
    18        time, that it was not just a first time occurrence.
    19
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, Mr. Morris.
    21
    22   MR. MORRIS:  So that would be an example where reducing the
    23        suppliers down to five had increased your surveillance and
    24        the better quality of the product, because you would know
    25        they would be loyal suppliers that would fulfil your
    26        specifications?
    27        A.  I cannot say that when we embarked upon this programme
    28        we knew the number of suppliers we were going to end up
    29        with.  But certainly we knew that a reduced number of
    30        suppliers was going to be better for the system overall.
    31
    32   Q.   Sorry, we interrupted you.  You were talking about fat
    33        content.  You said something about fat content?
    34        A.  That was another area where there was violation, there
    35        was cheating, as indicated in the book.  By the way, the
    36        suppliers that we have presently usually open their doors
    37        in the morning with a government inspector on the premises
    38        too .  That is one of thing we are done because of the
    39        large supplies of beef.  Besides our own quality assurance
    40        people that we employ to check the plant on a regular
    41        basis, we also have a government inspector also to be
    42        present when the doors are open in the morning to also
    43        review the premises, so that there is extra assurance that
    44        things are done properly.
    45
    46   Q.   As far as you know the five now -- have they ever found
    47        them not adhering to your -- for example ice in the burger
    48        or the fat content specifications?
    49        A.  There is never been a problem, to my knowledge, with
    50        the --- 
    51 
    52   Q.   The five? 
    53        A. -- the five, the team that we have now.
    54
    55   Q.   With the fat content one, how many people were found to
    56        have been, you know, cheating, going over your limit?
    57        A.  I would not know the answer it that, but I would say
    58        probably closer to a dozen than two or three again.  This
    59        would have been during the 60s, the 60s, and probably 70s,
    60        early 70s.  My Lord, I might say that it might even extend

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