Day 272 - 02 Jul 96 - Page 62


     
     1        already a member by the time you joined?
     2        A.   He was part of the group when I joined, yes, but, as I
     3        explained earlier, as I became a more regular attender I
     4        noticed his attendance got less, and that was from '87
     5        onwards.
     6
     7   Q.   This is a bit of a digression but we might as well deal
     8        with it now.  You described him this morning as some kind
     9        of elder statesman, did you not?
    10        A.   Off the cuff witticism.
    11
    12   Q.   Mr. Gravett, off the cuff is sometimes more reliable than
    13        from under the sleeve.  Elder statesman is quite a good
    14        description, is it not?  He was the longest serving member
    15        of the group by far by 1989, was he not?
    16        A.   Actually, no, he was not.
    17
    18   Q.   Who was longer?
    19        A.   There was somebody who was at least as long if not
    20        longer than him named Albert.
    21
    22   Q.   How often did Albert come to the meetings?
    23        A.   About the same number of times as Dave did at that
    24        period, so infrequently.
    25
    26   Q.   You have got two elder statesmen, Morris and Albert?
    27        A.   Yes.
    28
    29   Q.   Perhaps this is natural, both of them are a bit older than
    30        most of the rest of you?
    31        A.   Yes.
    32
    33   Q.   And were they, even if they did not come all that often,
    34        were they, when they came, accorded a degree of respect and
    35        deference?
    36        A.   No.
    37
    38   Q.   No?
    39        A.   No.
    40
    41   Q.   You seem to me, I do not know, correct me if I am wrong, to
    42        answer Mr. Morris' questions this morning with a degree of,
    43        what shall I say, deference.  Am I wrong about that?
    44        A.  I was not aware of answering him any differently to how
    45        I answered Helen's.  I respect both of them as people.
    46        Dave came along to meetings and used to talk about the
    47        history of the group and what he had done in the past and
    48        things like that and, no, I would not call it deference at
    49        all.  Sometimes one of us might turn around to other one
    50        and say, hark at him going on again, you know.
    51
    52   Q.   Mr. Morris does, you would agree, have a tendency to go on
    53        a bit?
    54        A.   Yes.
    55
    56   Q.   He likes to hold the floor, does he not?
    57        A.   He is garrulous.
    58
    59   Q.   Yes, garrulous, and he did not listen very carefully if
    60        anybody else should want to interrupt?

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