Day 018 - 26 Jul 94 - Page 82
1 been 1979.
2 Q. I am not saying you should not be asked about that if
necessary, but sheep have not come into this case so far.
3 A. At the same time I may well have observed the beef
line but I did not take any measurements.
4
MR. MORRIS: You do not remember any specific improvements?
5 A. I did go on another occasion to that line with the gun
manufacture to test out a new gun. I have no comment to
6 make in terms of whether there are any improvements since
then. It does not seem to feature. I do not know.
7
Q. What about the cattle and McKey's suppliers? Sorry,
8 I thought that was pigs we were talking about just now?
A. Just now was plant B cattle. I beg your pardon.
9
Q. Sorry.
10 A. I had not been to the pig abattoir on any previous
occasion.
11
Q. So would it be fair to say that the plants that have been
12 specifically mentioned in this case would have inevitably
been affected about the general rise in standards, say,
13 since the mid-80s?
A. I think it is likely that the awareness at these
14 plants would have been more acute, and I think we can see
that to some extent already in what I have mentioned in
15 the case of the poultry plants; they have been improving
their standards as time has progressed.
16
Q. There is one thing you mentioned about the goad used to be
17 used, the electric goad to be used at the beef plants, one
of the beef plants that was dropped -- no, one of them
18 dropped it?
A. The pig plant dropped it. That is a good comment.
19
Q. You do not know why hay dropped it? Did they tell you?
20 A. Yes, they did tell me, and the reason first came from
Mr. Ashley Bowes himself. He did not like the goad and he
21 requested that it be stopped. Since then one of their
other clients has asked for it to be stopped, you know,
22 but not as a general recommendation, and that is
reinforced the fact they do not use it.
23
Q. Did he say why he did not like it?
24 A. No.
25 MR. JUSTICE BELL: They may have thought it was not necessary
with pigs if they were handled in a proper way?
26 A. Yes. I do not know what his handling system was like
at that time. Yes, but that is a possibility.
27
MR. MORRIS: Is the goad generally used? Is that the majority
28 for pigs? Is it generally used in the transportation or
moving pigs about?
29 A. Yes, it is in the case in the slaughter house, in
lairage and getting the pig to the stunning point.
30
MR. JUSTICE BELL: Could I just ask you because I am very wary
