Day 035 - 12 Oct 94 - Page 51
1
2 Q. I would like you to read it to yourself. We have all read
3 it before and I think everybody is tired of the sound of
4 my voice.
5
6 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Sit in the witness box, if you do not mind,
7 and do it. Do not race. Just read it at your own speed.
8 I am going to stay in court during this break so I can try
9 to find where I may have put those extra papers including
10 the Walter Willett one.
11
12 MR. MORRIS: Have we finished with the Walter Willett one by
13 the way?
14
15 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No. Perhaps someone can think of some
16 arrangement for Mr. Morris to have the video overnight and
17 give him a copy of that now?
18
19 MR. RAMPTON: I want to make it clear what I am asking you to
20 do, Dr. Barnard, is to read from 3.5 on page 49, Cancer,
21 right through to the end of the text, in effect, page 55?
22 A. Very good.
23
24 Q. That might take you more than five minutes.
25
26 (Short Adjournment)
27
28 MR. RAMPTON: Dr. Barnard, you have read the whole of that
29 section now, have you?
30 A. I have, thank you.
31
32 Q. Can I draw your attention first, please, to paragraph
33 3.5.5 at the top of page 52? "Dietary fat and the
34 aetiology of cancer. A number of mechanisms whereby fat
35 could be involved in cancer promotion has been
36 suggested". I want to pause there. I think I asked you
37 earlier whether you distinguish between initiation and
38 promotion, and I think your answer was that you did?
39 A. Those are two different processes, yes.
40
41 Q. They are two different processes; a tumour cannot be
42 promoted that has not already been initiated, can it?
43 A. That is correct.
44
45 Q. Whereas it may be possible to measure in a population the
46 number of cases of tumours that have been initiated and
47 promoted, yes, roughly speaking, by reference to medical
48 records and so on and so forth, death registries, hospital
49 records? It is not possible to know at any stage, unless
50 you contradict me, what proportion of the population is
51 carrying cancers which have been initiated but not
52 promoted?
53 A. It is possible to identify abnormal cells in tissue
54 without those cells having proliferated.
55
56 Q. I understand that, of course I understand that, because
57 one can study the composition of cells. My question was a
58 different one. Because of the means, the somewhat crude
59 means, which are used to measure cancer incidence within a
60 population, it is not possible to know how many people
