Day 107 - 24 Mar 95 - Page 58
1 birds are put into crates for transport and this is known
2 to be a mechanism where salmonella can increase and be
3 spread from bird to bird. So if you took less than
4 1 per cent of your birds actually in the broiler shed and
5 then put them in lorry 30,000 birds at a time in crates,
6 and transported them to the slaughterhouse, let us call it
7 the slaughterhouse to avoid the use of processing, took it
8 to the slaughterhouse, you might then find a higher
9 proportion of live birds as they came out of the crates.
10 Then the next stage is they go through the various
11 procedures, you will get an increase.
12
13 Q. I do not know whether actually stunning and neck cutting
14 makes any difference, it probably does not, but then there
15 is a scalding where if the temperature is too low in the
16 water there may be contamination in the scalding tank, and
17 then there is evisceration where there may be spillage and
18 so on and so forth. So you would expect a higher
19 burden ----
20 A. Yes.
21
22 Q. --- at the point of dismemberment before deboning and what
23 I call processing, mixing of different carcasses?
24 A. Yes, the burden increases. The proportion of birds now
25 contaminated is increasing.
26
27 Q. Yes. So as we can get this right out of the way once and
28 for all, I think you said to his Lordship this morning
29 something which you hinted at yesterday, if you start with
30 a contamination of X number ----
31 A. Yes.
32
33 Q. --- of bacteria on a single bird and that is spread by
34 contamination, absent conditions for proliferation, in
35 effect what you are achieving is a dilution?
36 A. You do get a dilution effect, yes.
37
38 Q. Anyhow, as compared with E.coli, will you or will you not
39 agree that the burden of salmonella on a finished chicken
40 product is likely to be a good deal higher than the burden
41 of E.coli 0157 in a finished beef product?
42 A. Yes, I would accept that.
43
44 Q. Would you also agree that since E.coli 0157 poisoning is
45 apt to produce symptoms which are considerably more serious
46 as a rule, than those of salmonellosis, it is probable that
47 the degree of under-reporting for E.coli 0157 incidents is
48 much less than it is in the case of salmonellosis?
49 A. I do not know that to be true.
50
51 Q. No, I am asking whether you do not think it is probable
52 right?
53 A. I do not have enough information to assess --
54 I seriously do not have enough information to assess.
55 I can see several scenarios, one of which would be in
56 accord with your hypothesis. I can see another scenario
57 which said otherwise.
58
59 Q. Let me ask my question in a different way. You say 35,000
60 identifiable cases of salmonellosis annually in this
