Day 099 - 08 Mar 95 - Page 30


     
     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It refers to "total world red meat
     2        production" in the third line of chapter 11.
     3
     4   MR. RAMPTON:  It is perhaps my fault for going a bit too
     5        quickly, Mr. Kenny.
     6
     7   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It may well be that some of the micro
     8        organisms like Campylobacter Jejuni are associated with
     9        particularly chickens, I do not know.  Do you know where
    10        this photocopy actually came from?
    11        A.  Yes.
    12
    13   Q.   Is it a book which is in your office?
    14        A.  It is not held in my office, no, but it is a book that
    15        I can obtain.
    16
    17   Q.   Would be you be able to bring it tomorrow morning, for
    18        instance?
    19        A.  Tomorrow or the next day, yes.
    20
    21   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think it would be a good idea if we had a
    22        copy of the book in court and then any parts which are
    23        thought to be important could be photocopied.  It has
    24        "edible offal".  I suppose that could refer to chickens,
    25        but it is not how I would normally read it.
    26
    27   MR. RAMPTON:  No.  I am afraid, my Lord, I have not -- perhaps
    28        I should have done -- read the text, so one can look at it
    29        and see whether, in fact, it is all raw meat or not.
    30        (To the witness):  But leaving that, Mr. Kenny, and going
    31        back to tab B, the second appendix, one sees that,
    32        apparently, McKey do specific tests for E.coli and we
    33        understand that to be E.coli 0157 H?
    34        A.  Yes.
    35
    36   Q.   Clostridium perfringens:  What does that do to people, do
    37        you know?
    38        A.  It is a food poisoning organism, yes.
    39
    40   Q.   It is.  Then there is various Staphylococci, including
    41        aureus, I cannot remember what the other one is called.
    42        A.  Yes.
    43
    44   Q.   Then there is Salmonella at the bottom of the page ---
    45        A.  Yes.
    46
    47   Q.   -- for which the specification or the guideline by McKey is
    48        "absence in 25 grammes".  Do you know what that means?
    49        A.  Yes, these all relate to the recommendations from the
    50        Minced Meat Directive at the bottom of the page.  The 
    51        absence -- the test for Salmonella is basically a presence 
    52        or absence test.  You take 25 grammes of materials the 
    53        usual size and you selectively try to grow some
    54        Salmonella.  So, it is either there or it is not.  You do
    55        not have -- you do not know how many organisms are there.
    56
    57   Q.   So it is a specific test?
    58        A.  Yes.
    59
    60   Q.   Then if you look back up the page at E.coli, 50 colonies

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