Day 185 - 07 Nov 95 - Page 57
1 whether there was intimidation, that under 18-year-olds
2 should not have a right to join a union.
3
4 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. But I mean -----
5
6 MR. MORRIS: Which of course for the majority -----
7
8 MR. JUSTICE BELL: As far as I know, he was asked, "Do you want
9 unions", and he said "no", which he is perfectly entitled
10 to say, and his lawyers advised him to take this point as
11 well.
12
13 MR. MORRIS: He signed that application.
14
15 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, of course he does.
16
17 MR. MORRIS: Therefore, he has to take responsibility for it.
18 If he did not agree with it, he should not have signed it.
19
20 MS. STEEL: I think the point is that if he is so clearly
21 against unions, why are the Plaintiffs bothering to contest
22 this? Why do they not just admit that their Company is
23 hostile to trade unions, and we can all go home about three
24 months earlier?
25
26 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You use the emotive words "hostile to trade
27 unions", which immediately takes one off track. All I was
28 suggesting is that, given the choice, Mr. Ballantyne would
29 rather not have a union involved. That does not mean to
30 say you are hostile to trade unions. Maybe at the end of
31 the day, when I have heard all the evidence, I will decide
32 that this person or that person or this corporation or that
33 corporation was hostile to trade unions. But it does not
34 automatically mean that you are hostile to a trade union
35 if, given the choice, you decide to oppose them coming in.
36
37 MS. STEEL: Consistently, every time they try and make any
38 efforts to do so.
39
40 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That is another matter. We are talking about
41 Mr. Ballantyne now. I mean, one has to weigh it up when
42 one has all the evidence. You are going to call your
43 evidence. All I am suggesting is that it seems to me to be
44 rather a technical point to look at an argument which
45 lawyers have raised in what, after all, is a form of
46 litigation, and say that is inconsistent with what someone
47 speaking in person has said at a meeting.
48
49 There you are. I have no doubt bored everyone in this
50 court referring to 30 years' experience of litigation, but
51 I cannot put it out of my mind. When matters get into the
52 hands of lawyers, they take every point which they think
53 might be perceived. It is what they are paid to do. I am
54 not making the argument against you in relation to the
55 overall merit.
56
57 MR. MORRIS: No. I think it is a very significant point. But
58 there we are.
59
60 (To the witness): I suppose you do not know who instructed
