Day 106 - 23 Mar 95 - Page 43


     
     1        A.  Well, the carcass is then stripped.
     2
     3   Q.   Is that not meat?
     4        A.  Well, it is carcass meat.  Then you have processed
     5        meat.
     6
     7   MS. STEEL:  Can I say something?  I believe that McNuggets are
     8        being made in France at the moment anyway, are they not, so
     9        they could not have been the actual McNuggets.
    10
    11   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, if that is what you meant, there has
    12        been not only a complete misunderstanding on my part, but
    13        I think on what has been put to every witness so far.
    14
    15   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes, including Dr. Pattison.
    16
    17   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I am not alone in my misunderstanding because
    18        of the word "processed".
    19
    20   THE WITNESS:  I was standing in the processing room.  I am
    21        sorry, that is the word I used at the time.
    22
    23   Q.   You see, it is on information which was given you, you say,
    24        by Dr. Pattison.  Quite frankly, if he used the words "in
    25        the finished processed meat", I would have thought he was
    26        referring to the patties or McNuggets at the end of the
    27        day.
    28        A.  My Lord, I am easy -----
    29
    30   Q.   Because by then the meat has been processed.  If you are
    31        relying entirely on what Dr. Pattison said to you, what did
    32        he say to you?
    33        A.  I asked him what the level of salmonella was and the
    34        context is, perhaps, important as well.  The conversation
    35        took place in the stripping room which is an enormous
    36        building and, therefore, we were standing by bins of meat,
    37        what I call the processed meat, saying:  "What is the
    38        contamination level here?"  and was told it was 25 per
    39        cent.
    40
    41        I might add that I am easy; if it is put to me that the
    42        contamination rate refers to the McNuggets, Mr. Pattison
    43        was not with me in the McNugget building, then that is what
    44        I accept because, obviously, my source is them.  But, if
    45        you put to me that the contamination rate applies to the
    46        processed meat -- do not forget it is a processing plant --
    47        then the answer then is, if the question has been put:  "Is
    48        what then would the McNugget contamination level be like?"
    49        the answer is:  "I do not know".  I did ask specifically
    50        what they thought the McNugget level was, bearing in mind 
    51        Pattison was not with me then, my answer would be:  "I do 
    52        not know". 
    53
    54   Q.   What was the answer to you?
    55        A.  The answer when I asked specifically about the McNugget
    56        contamination level, was that they did not know, they had
    57        no figures on that.  So, the questions were put at
    58        different stages of the process to different people.
    59
    60        But, simply, if it is taken that it was 25 per cent at the

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