Day 103 - 14 Mar 95 - Page 57
1 the time we also had a lot of independent veterinary advice
2 who said that it was perfectly all right.
3
4 Q. Is there anybody who is on the premises who has a great
5 deal of experience in this area, qualifications or
6 whatever?
7 A. There are plenty of people with experience of stunning,
8 electrical equipment and stunning, yes.
9
10 Q. But in terms of actually going beyond just making
11 observations?
12 A. No, not this kind of scientific detail. Gregory is the
13 only person I know who has actually done any of these kinds
14 of measurements in the UK.
15
16 Q. If that is the case, how can the MAFF just -- this
17 derogation you have from the MAFF, is that in writing?
18 A. What derogation?
19
20 Q. To be able to use, I think you said, I cannot remember
21 exactly ----
22 A. As I understand it, a derogation is required for a
23 point of law or for a specific order that is a legal
24 requirement. The stunning recommendation is no more than
25 that, it is a code of practice.
26
27 Q. So in actual fact, the MAFF cannot stop you if they want
28 to?
29 A. The MAFF can stop us if they feel that we are not
30 complying with the humane slaughter regulations which,
31 basically, say that birds must be made unconscious until
32 death supervenes.
33
34 Q. But you are not aware of them having carried out any
35 research into whether the birds do remain unconscious
36 beyond making visual observations?
37 A. The MAFF have not done research on our system. The
38 MAFF do sponsor work on stunning, some of which probably
39 Dr. Gregory has been sponsored by.
40
41 Q. Well, if Dr. Gregory is not aware of any research on
42 whether DC stunning is effective or not, does that mean
43 there would not be any as far as you know?
44 A. I do not know. You would have to speak to Dr. Gregory.
45
46 Q. When you were giving evidence-in-chief you did actually say
47 that the MAFF officials seemed satisfied with what they had
48 seen and on that basis they were prepared to give you, Sun
49 Valley that is, a derogation from working to the official
50 code of practice.
51 A. OK, if I said that.
52
53 Q. So that was an error?
54 A. Am I saying anything different now? No, I do not think
55 so.
56
57 Q. What percentage of birds miss the stunner now?
58 A. I could not say how many, but as I have said, we do
59 have somebody in place to kill any birds that miss the
60 stunner.
