Day 113 - 03 Apr 95 - Page 37


     
     1
     2   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think the difficulty is Mr. Morris may be
     3        trying not to lead you, as it were, which, therefore,
     4        leaves the gate open for things we are not concerned with.
     5        So, put BSE on one side because I have said that you must
     6        do so.  Put on one side disease which humans may obtain
     7        from working with animals unless there is any further
     8        argument as to that.  Salmonella, we have heard a lot
     9        about, E.coli 0157, we have heard a lot about.  Why do you
    10        not ask a leading question anyway if you have a particular
    11        point in mind, Mr. Morris?
    12
    13   MR. MORRIS:  I have not a particular point.  I just want to know
    14        what you feel the diseases that are present in cattle,
    15        which ones -----
    16        A.  One other, I do not know whether you heard of this, a Q
    17        fever, it is called Q fever, that is serious.  Those sorts
    18        of diseases like E 1057 have more than just gut troubles in
    19        the victims, and Q fever has effects on other parts of the
    20        anatomy apart from the gut.
    21
    22   Q.   But these are diseases which are contained in the gut of
    23        the actual animal?
    24        A.  They would be transmitted from the gut of the animal
    25        because, you have to remember, that meat and milk are foods
    26        that are prepared in what is a lavatory as well as a
    27        factory.  There is fairly ------
    28
    29   Q.   Sorry, what is a lavatory?
    30        A.  A lavatory?  Well, there is the excreta and the muck,
    31        and it is very closely in contact with, certainly parts of
    32        the operation, the bare flesh.  Bare flesh, when it is
    33        exposed, is sterile, but in the factory you will get
    34        distribution of bacteria through the aerosols.
    35
    36   Q.   This is in the slaughterhouse?
    37        A.  Yes.  So, one will get transfer of organisms that come
    38        in on the hide that are spread during the flaying and other
    39        operations -----
    40
    41   Q.   Flaying, what is the flaying?
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Taking the hide off.
    44        A.  Flaying is skinning, taking the hide off.  That is the
    45        common problem in slaughterhouses as well as poultry
    46        slaughter.  I mean, it is a problem in poultry slaughter as
    47        well.  So, those are the diseases that would come as
    48        zoonosis to the human bacterial diseases.  It will come to
    49        human populations.  Other diseases might be fungal, things
    50        like ring worm, handling meat sometimes causes problems in 
    51        pregnant women. 
    52 
    53   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  We are concerned with the consequences of
    54        eating meat so far as the leaflet here is concerned.
    55        A.  Could I just suggest, though, before it reaches the
    56        table the housewife, or house husband, has to handle it in
    57        the kitchen.  Therefore, in order to get it to eat, you
    58        have to think of the contamination in the kitchen, in the
    59        refrigerator, and diseases like toxoplasmosis pose a danger
    60        in handling raw meat.

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