Day 256 - 04 Jun 96 - Page 64


     
     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause a moment.
     2        A.  If I can just elaborate that point a little more: what
     3        you just referred to really leads us into the area where
     4        this dietary fat effect is so impressive, which has the
     5        opportunity to show you what is the general consensus
     6        opinion as to what carcinogenesis is all about.  The cancer
     7        starts in various and sundry ways at the genetic level,
     8        either initiated with chemicals in some cases, if it is
     9        done experimentally, or, in the case of human, perhaps
    10        exposure to chemicals.  So the cancer starts; and we all
    11        have in our tissues for all of our lifetime some of these
    12        initiating cells.  That is also a fairly good consensus.
    13        The question of whether or not those cells, those
    14        initiating cells, if you will, the question of whether or
    15        not they actually go on to actually form cancers or not is
    16        the area where nutrition is particularly important; that is
    17        the promotion period; and that is where dietary fat really
    18        works best.  That is why it is so significant.
    19
    20   Q.   You do not accept that, by and large, these animal
    21        experiments are designed to produce the effects that are
    22        looked for?
    23        A.  In some cases, I think that is true; they are done that
    24        way.  But the vast majority of the studies, I think, are
    25        done in good faith.
    26
    27   Q.   Can we pass to something else?
    28
    29   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Shall we take a break?
    30
    31   MR. RAMPTON:  I will finish this afternoon.  Whether you will
    32        have time to re-examine is another question.
    33
    34   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.
    35
    36   MR. MORRIS:  Can I say that we will not be very long in
    37        re-examination.
    38
    39   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think we should try, if we can do so
    40        without prejudice to either side's case, to finish
    41        Professor Campbell this afternoon; then he is a free agent.
    42
    43   MR. MORRIS:  He can rearrange his flight for tomorrow.
    44
    45                          (Short Adjournment)
    46
    47   MR. RAMPTON:  Mr. Riley, can you stay with the witness, because
    48        I would like your help.  Do not bother with the tables.
    49        Can I start with the one numbered 41?
    50 
    51   MS. STEEL:   Have we finished with the other thing? 
    52 
    53   MR. RAMPTON:  Which is that?
    54
    55   MS. STEEL:  Doll.
    56
    57   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes, we have finished with Doll.
    58
    59        (To the witness)  I do not know if you are familiar with
    60        these publications?

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