Day 149 - 06 Jul 95 - Page 16


     
     1        there be any dispute about it, it would be better to raise
     2        it, the matters you particularly have in mind, so that one
     3        could find out whether that is common ground, or there
     4        might be some confession and avoidance of it.
     5
     6        You understand what I understand what I mean confession
     7        and avoidance:  "Yes, that was said but", and then an
     8        explanation which is contrary to the point you are trying
     9        to make is given.
    10
    11   MS. STEEL:   But, obviously, we could not do that unless we did
    12        recall her?
    13
    14   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No.  All I was saying is, if there were
    15        particular points which you wanted to make on the strength
    16        of what appears in the minutes, I was suggesting that you
    17        raise them in open court, one could find what Mr. Rampton's
    18        reaction to them was.  If he said:  "Yes, we accept that
    19        was so", there would be no need to recall Mrs. Barnes in
    20        order to put it to her.  If, on the other hand, Mr. Rampton
    21        said:  "Well, that is completely equivocal.  I do not read
    22        into that what the Plaintiffs are trying to read into it",
    23        then you may might say: "Well, in that case, it is only
    24        fair Mrs. Barnes comes back so that we can ask her what it
    25        meant."
    26
    27        But before one goes to recalling Mrs. Barnes, I was
    28        suggesting that you indicate to me, and thereby to
    29        Mr. Rampton, what the matters are, we can air them in open
    30        court and you can find out whether there is an issue or
    31        loose end.
    32
    33   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, this is supposed to be constructive:
    34        since in any event I take the view that the two documents
    35        referred to -- I forget what they are -- earlier, which
    36        Ms. Steel raised, one was the response to the HSE report
    37        and the other was in relation to hustle, I take the view
    38        that those documents are disclosable in principle.
    39
    40   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That was my reaction so far.
    41
    42   MR. RAMPTON:  I have no doubt that is right.  There may be bits
    43        of them that are relevant and bits that may not be.
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It seems to me a degree of relevance might be
    46        the issue rather than pure relevance, because once we have
    47        the HSE report and once we have ---
    48
    49   MR. RAMPTON:  Hustle.
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  -- recommendations being carried into effect, 
    52        then it seemed to me that anything which is passed in 
    53        between in documentary form has a potential relevance.
    54
    55   MR. RAMPTON:  I entirely agree with your Lordship.  That is
    56        entirely my view.  Having said that, it does seem to me
    57        that the sensible thing, since I doubt whether the
    58        Defendants are now in a position to give notice of the
    59        particular parts of the minutes and the safety update that
    60        they would like to cross-examine Mrs. Barnes about, or

Prev Next Index