Day 285 - 23 Oct 96 - Page 26
1
2 MR. MORRIS: Well, they would sell themselves to a client,
3 they would portray themselves as providing what that
4 client wanted without consideration of the truth. I did
5 -----
6
7 MR. RAMPTON: That is quite a serious allegation to make. I
8 am very good at counting up, but I don't know how many
9 times Mr. Morris mentioned liars or lies this morning,
10 somebody is counting that up. That is actually quite a
11 serious allegation to make. I notice there are some press
12 here, which is why I stood up. We had better have chapter
13 and verse for that.
14
15 MR. MORRIS: First of all, Mr. Rampton cannot tell me what
16 I am to do.
17
18 MR JUSTICE BELL: I think you should give me the reference at
19 some stage.
20
21 MR. MORRIS: This is the Gonzalez reference that you asked me
22 not to go into again. Do you remember, only before
23 lunch?
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25 MR JUSTICE BELL: I remember you touching upon it, not quite in
26 those terms. Anyway, I hear what you say. I have got the
27 comment in mind.
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29 MR. MORRIS: It is day 69, page 38. It is part of the whole
30 discussion about why he said in his view that people that
31 spoke to Peter Heller were -- his words -- lying, which
32 you might think is a very serious allegation for him to
33 make in the witness box under privilege, but he did that.
34
35 MR. JUSTICE BELL: What he said was, the man was lying when he
36 said that the beef had gone to McDonald's, if that is what
37 he did say, but they were supplying it to McDonald's; did
38 he not?
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40 MR. MORRIS: Yes. It says, "Any salesperson will tell you if
41 I am interested in buying this particular cloth will tell
42 you that he is that particular piece of cloth" - suits, or
43 whatever. What he is saying. Then he says the person was
44 wrong, did not happen, wasn't what was alleged. And then
45 either he did not know it or he has lied. Then later
46 on-----
47
48 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Well, I will look at it. I will look at it
49 again.
50
51 MR. MORRIS: Yes, if you could look at that section, that is
52 the words he used, not mine. So I was not alleging that
53 Dr. Gonzalez lied on that subject. I do use the words
54 sparingly when I believe it is true. When I can prove it
55 is true, in fact. Sorry, they are relying on their
56 suppliers. We have heard about the Lord Vestey letter.
57 I think Mr. Oakley relied on that letter on day 64, page
58 25, line 38. Dr. Gonzalez gave evidence about how he was
59 checking up whether Co-op Montecillos had ever exported to
60 McDonald's suppliers in the USA; he even said, this is
