Day 103 - 14 Mar 95 - Page 35


     
     1        inspections from time to time.
     2
     3   Q.   So if that inspector said you were not stripping down your
     4        machines properly, would that be something that would be a
     5        quite serious ---
     6        A.  Well, yes ---
     7
     8   Q.   -- criticism?
     9        A.  -- I think it is very unlikely that that situation
    10        would happen, because we have a standard operating
    11        procedure which requires the lines to be stripped and
    12        cleaned at set intervals.  That is agreed with the
    13        customer, it is agreed with ourselves and there is no point
    14        in trying to break those guidelines.  I do not
    15        think somebody coming in from the outside would necessarily
    16        be able to know that.
    17
    18   Q.   So that is a pretty fundamental hygiene ---
    19        A.  Of course, yes, it is.
    20
    21   Q.   -- point.  Finally the last page, can you just explain what
    22        this is?  This is the microbiological testing, yes?
    23        A.  Yes.
    24
    25   Q.   So, the Staphylococcus aureus, E.coli and Anaerobies SR
    26        tests are not actually done on chicken products?
    27        A.  That is correct, the tests that we are required to do
    28        are for aeorobic bacteria and for Salmonella.
    29
    30   MS. STEEL:  Why do you not test for listeria at Sun Valley?
    31        A.  We do a lot of testing for listeria, but we do not test
    32        routinely on uncooked products.
    33
    34   Q.   I think you said before that you only test on the cooked
    35        products?
    36        A.  Yes.
    37
    38   Q.   Why do you not test for the uncooked products?
    39        A.  Well, listeria is like many other bacteria, is a very
    40         -- is very commonly found in meat as a raw material, and
    41        we know it is going to be present.
    42
    43   Q.   That would affect more than 60 per cent of chickens; is
    44        that right?
    45        A.  We do not know the contamination of listeria on
    46        chickens but it is likely to be very high.
    47
    48   Q.   60 per cent would not surprise you?
    49        A.  No.
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Are the there various kinds of listeria? 
    52        A.  Yes, the basic type listeria monocytogenes is the basic 
    53        species, but within that there are subtypes, some of which
    54        I think are much more likely to cause illness in man.
    55        There are -----
    56
    57   Q.   The Scottish cheese maker, part of the argument was whether
    58        the listeria in his cheese was the part which the Ministry
    59        was particularly worried about or not, was it not?
    60        A.  That is correct.  I think there are different -- there

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