Day 124 - 10 May 95 - Page 18


     
     1        A.  When you say "summing-up the situation" the San
     2        Francisco situation?  Again, I do not have any recollection
     3        of the San Francisco situation that you are referring to.
     4
     5   Q.   That lie detector tests have been used to determine union
     6        sympathies, dishonesty, and a refusal was ground for
     7        dismissal?
     8
     9   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Why do you not break it up, because the
    10        answer will not necessarily be the same for all three.  Do
    11        you remember?
    12
    13   THE WITNESS:  On the first question, no, on the second question,
    14        yes.  I think I responded to you earlier that my
    15        recollection of the use of lie detector tests was basically
    16        to cover areas of honesty.  It was used as an additional
    17        screen when individuals that were deemed, were thought to
    18        have had the necessary skills to go into management were
    19        given a lie detector test.  This was not used universally
    20        or extensively, but many franchisees and many Company
    21        people felt that was helpful.  So, in the area of
    22        dishonesty, yes.  With regard to your question on
    23        dismissal, if a person refused to take it I cannot speak
    24        for all to that.  I can only tell you that in a particular
    25        case where I have used a lie detector test, I did not
    26        dismiss employees for refusing to take the lie detector
    27        test.  It raised my eyebrows if they did not and perhaps --
    28        not perhaps, I had some trepidation about putting them into
    29        positions of major responsibility because of that.  But
    30        I did not dismiss, nor do I recall people that
    31        I supervised, or who were peers at the time, that dismissed
    32        employees because they did not take it.  Again, the major
    33        reason, the only reason that we used it in the area where
    34        I worked was to cover areas of honesty.
    35
    36   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  So, on the occasions when you used them
    37        yourself, that was only where there was a suspicion or
    38        question of possible dishonesty, was it?
    39        A.  That is correct.
    40
    41   Q.   You did not use them for recruitment interviews yourself,
    42        or did you?
    43        A.  No.
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do you want to go to the end of any questions
    46        about lie detectors, and then we will have a break?
    47
    48   MR. MORRIS:  I have nearly finished on this one, yes.  (To the
    49        witness):  Are you aware that it had been found that job
    50        application forms for McDonald's, or for some branches of 
    51        McDonald's, had actually stipulated that each employee must 
    52        acknowledge their obligation to take a lie detector test 
    53        upon request or face dismissal.  That was a clause in some
    54        job application forms at least?
    55        A.  That is probably true.  To my recollection that is
    56        probably true in some cases.
    57
    58   Q.   And that the Deputy Labour Commissioner, Brian Seal,
    59        ordered the Company to cease the use of lie detectors or
    60        face court action?

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