Day 107 - 24 Mar 95 - Page 55


     
     1        you agreed but wanted to qualify that you have to have what
     2        I will call inadequate temperature control for McDonald's
     3        purposes?
     4        A.  Yes.
     5
     6   Q.   After leaving the processing line?
     7        A.  Yes.
     8
     9   Q.   And inadequate cooking?
    10        A.  Yes.
    11
    12   Q.   You said you had other factors to add, in effect.  The
    13        first is the initial dose can be so high?
    14        A.  Yes.
    15
    16   Q.   Were there any others?
    17        A.  In relation to salmonella I am content there.
    18
    19   MR. RAMPTON:  Give us any qualifications you have in relation to
    20        any of the other organisms in question?
    21        A.  Well, of course, campylobacter and E.coli we are
    22        talking about extreme low dose infection, so that the
    23        contamination at slaughter does not require
    24        multiplication.  If you recall earlier, I made the
    25        distinction between food-borne and food poisoning.
    26
    27   Q.   Yes, you did.  Can I just pick up on that?  I know it is
    28        out of order, my Lord, but perhaps it is a convenient
    29        moment to do it.  I just want to deal briefly with E.coli.
    30        You told his Lordship, his Lordship was asking questions,
    31        I think it was this morning, that E.coli is an inhabitant
    32        of the gut in both humans and animals?
    33        A.  Yes.
    34
    35   Q.   Which I suppose one can suspect from its name?
    36        A.  Yes.
    37
    38   Q.   But that it was rarely found?
    39        A.  E.coli, can we please make the distinction, E.coli and
    40        E.coli 0157?
    41
    42   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  0157.
    43
    44   MR. RAMPTON:  Please.  I am not interested in the other coli
    45        forms.
    46        A.  It seem to be rarely found.   I recall an American
    47        survey, I believe it was, where they tested 600 cattle and
    48        found four that were infected.  So you are talking about
    49        that level.
    50 
    51   Q.   Compared with salmonella and even more campylobacter, it is 
    52        a rare bird, is it not? 
    53        A.  I do not know that to be the case vis-a-vis salmonella,
    54        but I would certainly agree campylobacter was.
    55
    56   Q.   Campylobacter is everywhere, is it not?
    57        A.  Yes.
    58
    59   Q.   That is why as you said, I think it was, it is by no means
    60        certain that the bulk of campylobacter poisoning cases are

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