Day 251 - 17 May 96 - Page 24
1 Q. You went up the road when it was first being opened up?
2 A. Because I went up to Maraba. This was in 1974 when I
3 first went to Maraba. So from about when I went there in
4 1974, that region was still pretty forested. When I have
5 been back recently, I went to this region in the late
6 1980s, a lot of it had been cleared. It is now a lot of
7 devastation, a lot of clearance has gone on in this
8 region. When you fly over it, I remember flying over it in
9 the 70's and it was pretty dense forest. Now, when you fly
10 over that region it has been largely cleared, and for
11 cattle rearing.
12
13 MR. JUSTICE BELL: How did this dense, moist forest, as you have
14 described it, with the tall trees, compare with what
15 everyone -- whatever their terminology -- would call
16 Amazonian rain forest, actually near the Amazon itself?
17 A. Well, that is what I mean really, along the Araguaia
18 River. As I said, I am not a forest expert, but it is what
19 you imagine as people think of as tropical forest with big
20 trees and they were... It was difficult to clear because
21 the trees were so dense. So I saw this on a lot of the
22 ranches. They imported huge tractors from Japan.
23
24 Q. You are saying it is the same?
25 A. Yes, it is the same, and they cleared it by having a
26 big chain between two tractors 100 metres across and
27 driving the tractors through and making these huge trees
28 tumble. Yes... It is not all like that, but all over the
29 Amazon, even in the heart of the Amazonian forest, there
30 will be areas of what they call campo, which is, sort of,
31 savannah of less dense forest.
32
33 Q. What was the word you used?
34 A. Campo, which just means 'field', it is just open
35 areas. But, certainly, along the whole of this area that I
36 was describing beside the Araguaia River was very dense
37 tropical forest.
38
39 MR. MORRIS: If I can just ask you one question. You have
40 talked about western side of the Araguaia River having a
41 lot of disputes with indigenous people that had lived
42 there, and some of the places are even named after the
43 original peoples. Does any of that apply to the eastern
44 side of that river, do you know? If you do not know you do
45 not know.
46 A. Yes, the Lea de Banamaray(?), now the isle of Banmal,
47 which is now in Tokantins.
48
49 Q. But in terms of what in what is now in Goias State?
50 A. There certainly have been land conflicts in this area,
51 but I cannot ----
52
53 Q. With indigenous peoples?
54 A. With indigenous people.
55
56 Q. In the Araguaia basin on the eastern side of the river?
57 A. Yes.
58
59 Q. The word, Itpuranga, just to the north east of Jucara,
60 that would be an indigenous word, would it, they are not
