Day 288 - 28 Oct 96 - Page 07
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2 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, I have that point.
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4 MS. STEEL: Right, not all. In opening, Mr. Rampton conceded
5 that had this was true for the chickens reared for
6 McDonald's product, that they do spend their entire lives
7 indoors with no access to the open air or to sunshine.
8 However, he claimed that it was untrue for pigs. Well, as
9 you have now heard, it is in fact true for the pigs as
10 well, but I am going to come back to that when I go through
11 the evidence that was heard in court relating to pigs.
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13 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Well, so far as whole lives is concerned, it
14 is true for some and not true for others, is it not?
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16 MS. STEEL: I have not got my notes on pigs with me.
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18 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Since the word is "some", it may not make any
19 difference.
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21 MS. STEEL: It was my understanding that the pigs that were
22 reared for McDonald's products were reared inside,
23 basically because McDonald's did not want to pay higher
24 amounts in order to purchase ----
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26 MR. JUSTICE BELL: If you ----
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28 MS. STEEL: ---- pork that had been raised more humanely.
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30 MR. JUSTICE BELL: ---- can find it, at some stage you had
31 better give me the reference, if that is your recollection,
32 because I don't remember that distinction.
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34 MS. STEEL: Which distinction?
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36 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That even though Bowes, for instance, reared
37 some of theirs outside until a certain age when they went
38 inside, and others were inside the whole time, and some of
39 their suppliers may have had some out and some in, all that
40 I recollect. What I do not recollect is evidence that the
41 McDonald's ones were all reared inside from start to finish
42 because they were not prepared to pay a premium for outdoor
43 rearing. I do not remember that evidence.
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45 MS. STEEL: I can't remember where the exact reference is.
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47 MR. JUSTICE BELL: All I am asking is, if it was said, I would
48 like you to, if you can find it at any stage over the next
49 weeks, to give me the reference.
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51 MS. STEEL: Yes, I have not got the exact reference on me right
52 now. If I just say that Mr. ----
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54 MR. JUSTICE BELL: If you are right about the "some of them"
55 point, it doesn't matter anyway.
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57 MS. STEEL: Mr. Bowes did say there were two separate buying
58 channels for pigs, and that was indoor and outdoor, and
59 that McDonald's bought indoor pork and would only get
60 outdoor pork if there was some left over. Then I asked him
