Day 099 - 08 Mar 95 - Page 72


     
     1        but that the multiplication is so slow or so insignificant
     2        that it is thought that one can safely leave it.  Do you
     3        understand?
     4        A.  Yes.
     5
     6   Q.   That is really to get you started.  I might be quite wrong
     7        about that.  I want you to express it in your own words.
     8        We start with the optimum is basically blood temperature?
     9        A.  Yes. The optimum temperature for pathogenic organisms
    10        is blood temperature, we know that.  Within that the
    11        various organisms will have different ranges, but as a
    12        summary you could say pathogenic organisms grow their best
    13        or the majority of pathogenic organisms grow their best at
    14        around body temperature.  There are specific organisms that
    15        like the extremes of temperature.  On the whole they are
    16        not pathogenic bacteria at all, but the food industry takes
    17        as standard between 6 and 63 which encompasses all
    18        organisms, pathogenic and spoilage, as the temperatures
    19        which you want to avoid.  So if you are holding product
    20        before cooking it you hold it below 6 degrees.  If you have
    21        cooked a product you then hold it above 63 degrees.
    22
    23   MR. MORRIS:  That may be the food industry standard, but I am
    24        talking about scientific standards.
    25
    26   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I want him to finish first.  Explain why 6 to
    27        63?  Explain why 6 first of all?
    28        A.  It is best if I had that graphical representation you
    29        could see the growth of a bacterium against temperature.
    30        It is a bell shape like that.  So, obviously, below 5
    31        degrees you are right at the bottom of curve, there is
    32        very, very little growth at all.  Then depending on the
    33        organism that curve will shift between 6 and 63.  It might
    34        peak at 43.  It might peak at 28 depending on the
    35        organism.  Once you get above 63 again that curve drops off
    36        down to virtually nothing.
    37
    38   MR. MORRIS:  So for some organisms they can grow below 5
    39        degrees, can they not?
    40        A.  Yes.
    41
    42   Q.   For example, clostridium botulinum?
    43        A.  It is possible, yes. It is possible that organisms grow
    44        at that temperature, but the rate at which they grow is
    45        slow.  It is negligible.  It is not a significant risk.
    46
    47   Q.   Basically, for example, clostridium botulinum, it can in
    48        fact be active at 3.5 degrees, can it not, centigrade?
    49        A.  I would have to check.  I honestly would not know how
    50        active it was at that temperature.  It would not die 
    51        obviously, but it may be very, very slowly active, yes. 
    52        When you say "active" do you mean growing, multiplying? 
    53
    54   Q.   Yes. It would not surprise you if that was the scientific
    55        position?
    56        A.  I would be very surprised if it multiplied rapidly at
    57        that temperature, yes.
    58
    59   Q.   We are not sure if it was rapid or slow at that
    60        temperature.

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