Day 111 - 30 Mar 95 - Page 50
1 is not necessarily always called A, B, C, D and E; it could
2 be called 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 and so on. But those figures,
3 like, you can see from here that A, for example, is from
4 one -----
5
6 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Let me just ask one or two questions,
7 Mr. Morris. (To the witness): You said 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5
8 which, in alphabetical terms, would have got us down to E
9 and then you said "and so on"?
10 A. Yes.
11
12 Q. Does that mean that the gradings you are familiar with go
13 beyond E or beyond 5 or not?
14 A. Yes, some do.
15
16 Q. Can you give me any kind of assistance as to what the
17 gradings mean?
18 A. Well, as you probably heard from the previous witnesses
19 (and I am probably going to have to repeat the same thing),
20 nobody wants to attach any particular significance to any
21 of these readings partly because and, in my opinion or my
22 understanding has always been when I have studied
23 microbiology and public health ------
24
25 Q. I understand all that, but you should not, you say, use
26 them to indicate that something is objectively safe or
27 objectively unsafe?
28 A. That is right.
29
30 Q. They are a way of monitoring the amount of care which is
31 gone into hygiene in the plant. I understand all that.
32 The point I am on at the moment, do A, B, C, D and E mean
33 anything particular to you, or might Bristol Food
34 Laboratories be using their own grading system with a
35 specific meaning? If that is so, say so; whereas if "A"
36 means excellent, "E" means beyond redemption, then tell me
37 that, do you understand?
38 A. No. I mean, obviously, I would first look at the
39 numbers and then say that 7.4 x 10 to the power of 4 is
40 very poor.
41
42 Q. Right.
43 A. Then I see, all right, they use that as an "E", and
44 then after seeing quite a few figures -----
45
46 Q. So, you get your interpretation of what grade A or B or C
47 or grade E means from looking at the actual counts?
48 A. Yes, of course.
49
50 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, Mr. Morris?
51
52 MS. STEEL: Before Mr. Morris carries on, Mr. Rampton said that
53 there was not any evidence that these documents or these
54 tests were only done once a month. I thought that
55 I remembered asking Mr. Bennett that. I did, in fact, ask
56 him that on day 105, page 23, line 57. He did say they
57 were done once a month.
58
59 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Very well.
60
