Day 073 - 13 Jan 95 - Page 27


     
     1        and looking at the forests where they are getting their
     2        paper from and making sure the very best standards are
     3        happening there and not just any standard that happens to
     4        be current.  They have the power to do this.  They are a
     5        big company, and other companies in this country and
     6        Germany, and various other places, are now making these
     7        assessments and purchasing with regard to those
     8        assessments.
     9
    10   Q.   I think that deals with that page.  Pages 10, 11 and 12
    11        refer to the USA.  Oregon has been mentioned and the West
    12        Coast of America.  You have concluded on page 12 their use
    13        of paper must be bad for the environment.  What does that
    14        conclusion relate to?  Does that relate to America in
    15        general, or does it relate to the inevitability of access
    16        to pulp from the West Coast or Oregon?
    17        A.  Though basically chapter 3 is that, the whole item on
    18        chapter 3 is centred around my experience of West Coast, US
    19        forests, it is really -- as such it is a sampler of the
    20        nature of old growth forests in all areas.
    21
    22   Q.   Not just America?
    23        A.  Not just in America.  This is one I am very familiar
    24        with, therefore, I am writing about it, but I am not saying
    25        that, you know, it is the only area.  If McDonald's are
    26        using paper from the West Coast of the United States or the
    27        West Coast of Canada, then there will be problems.  If they
    28        are using old growth material from other places, Sweden,
    29        Finland, Canada, which most likely is old growth if it
    30        comes from Alberta or other places in Canada, then it is
    31        bad for the environment.  This is just typical of what old
    32        growth is all about, the social culture, and other issues.
    33        I did this as a case study.
    34
    35   Q.   When you say "old growth", that includes natural or
    36        semi-natural or ancient forests?
    37        A.  Yes.
    38
    39   Q.   In general, in any country, which are top priority for
    40        protection?
    41        A.  Yes.
    42
    43   Q.   Are you saying, therefore, just to summarise, by not
    44        specifying that they would not use paper sourced from those
    45        forests -- what are you saying there?  What are you saying?
    46        A.  Well, I am saying they should be -- I would think
    47        McDonald's at the very first level should be saying:  "We
    48        are not taking any material from any old growth forest
    49        anywhere".  That is what I am saying.
    50 
    51        I must say that if they said that in the United States, you 
    52        might say that loggers in certain parts of the United 
    53        States and Canada are pretty boisterous people, and I would
    54        not be surprised to find that their McDonald's stores in
    55        the United States and Canada were picking it out or even,
    56        quite possibly, fire bombing.  People are quite lively
    57        around there, if they made that statement; but that is
    58        nothing to do with the environmental quality of the timber.
    59
    60   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  A more sensible middle route might be not to

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