Day 060 - 02 Dec 94 - Page 25


     
     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, but that is a point you can perfectly
     2        well make, but do not be over confident about it because,
     3        for instance, a number of the things there are, I am afraid
     4         -- no doubt through lack of my general knowledge -- rather
     5        lost on me.  If I can just take one example, because I have
     6        not read through it altogether, but May 1981, this is a
     7        point which might be taken against you, May 1981:  "EPA
     8        director, nominee, Ann Emberg(?) testifies at her
     9        confirmation hearing that she has used the CFC ozone theory
    10        is highly controversial", which I interpret her as saying
    11        is far from proven or established.  That may be, but I do
    12        not know what is involved in confirmation hearings for an
    13        EPA director.  I do not know how widely they are
    14        publicised, who knows about them or anything else. It is
    15        just completely lost on me.
    16
    17   MR. MORRIS:  If I may point out, in March 1983 she resigned from
    18        the EPA.
    19
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, I know.  I can read those things.
    21
    22   MR. MORRIS:  Yes, I understand that.
    23
    24   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  They can be totally meaningless to me, that
    25        is all.  If it says, if we look back, for instance:
    26        "October 1978, CFCs used in aerosols are banned in United
    27        States".  That does mean something to me, do you see?
    28
    29   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.  There are clearly governmental concerns.
    30
    31   THE WITNESS:  I think I acknowledged that, Mr. Morris, in my
    32        acknowledgment to you.  I said I can accept some of the
    33        dates and facts, but not everything.
    34
    35   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You have your answer.  You can rely on it,
    36        and we will see what impact it has with all the other
    37        evidence at the end of the day.
    38
    39   MS. STEEL (To the witness):  Mr. Oakley, when in 1986 did you
    40        introduce CFCs into the packaging?
    41        A.  I cannot remember the exact date.  I know it was 1986
    42        but, exactly, I cannot remember.
    43
    44   Q.   You do not know whether it was the beginning or end or
    45        middle or what?
    46        A.  It may be documented somewhere.  I would need to look
    47        at that, but I cannot remember the exact date.
    48
    49   Q.   You have no idea at all?
    50        A.  I have just said, I cannot remember the exact date. 
    51 
    52   Q.   When do you say you first became aware of concerns about 
    53        CFCs in packaging in relation to damage to the ozone layer?
    54        A.  Well, I mentioned this earlier; I mentioned that in
    55        August 1986 the 13 scientists went to the Antarctica.  In
    56        October 1986 they held a press conference, and thereafter
    57        at some point -- I cannot remember exactly when -- but
    58        I read a newspaper article on this whole subject which,
    59        I guess, would have emanated from this press conference
    60        which made me concerned.

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