Day 207 - 23 Jan 96 - Page 26
1 at least 45 minutes", et cetera. What it does not say is
2 when that 45 minutes must be given.
3
4 MS. STEEL: No, but the document we looked at this morning did
5 say; and that was another McDonald's document.
6
7 MR. JUSTICE BELL: We must clear up what the actual legal
8 position is. I do not mind saying that my concern at the
9 moment -- if it is illegal, that is one thing, but my
10 concern at the moment is less whether it is 40 minutes,
11 42 minutes, or even just half an hour, but when the break
12 is.
13
14 MS. STEEL: Right. If it is just after someone started.
15
16 MR. JUSTICE BELL: A point of view would be that a lot of young
17 people would find half an hour enough, or might do, and if
18 they can get back to work a bit earlier and get paid for a
19 an extra 15 minutes, then they might like to do that. If
20 the evidence is that they are doing that under pressure,
21 then it puts a different complexion on it; and I take your
22 point about early breaks and late breaks. But I will hear
23 what people have to say at the end of the day.
24
25 What I must know is what the legal position is.
26 I appreciate that whatever the legal position is -- for
27 instance, when it changed about under-18s -- if McDonald's
28 think that, nevertheless, it is not right to work under-18s
29 after 12, that is something you can pray in aid. But all
30 this is very provisional comment, and the main thing is,
31 quite apart from knowing what McDonald's say should happen,
32 what Parliament has decided should happen.
33
34 MR. MORRIS: So far as I understand, Parliament decided that
35 45 minutes shall be -----
36
37 MR. JUSTICE BELL: We have had argument to and fro. At some
38 stage I will have to decide what Parliament has actually
39 said.
40
41 MR. MORRIS: I think everyone accepts that the law is that you
42 must get 45 minutes break, because after 100 years of trade
43 unionism in this country, at least we still have some
44 employment laws that guarantee people some rights. But
45 McDonald's seem to be playing fast and loose with break
46 laws.
47
48 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It is not helpful to make a little speech
49 about that. What I must know at some stage is what the
50 actual legal position is.
51
52 MR. MORRIS: If McDonald's have been breaking the law on that
53 scale, if it turns out that 45 minutes is the law, I would
54 say that 27 (or whatever it is, at least breaches of the
55 law in one day and -----
56
57 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Let us wait and see, Mr. Morris. I am not
58 unreceptive to the point; I just stressing that at some
59 stage I must decide for myself what the actual law is; and
60 that relates to the length of break and also any provisions
