Day 018 - 26 Jul 94 - Page 62


     
     1        got.  According to their criteria, they claimed that a
              third of the birds were not properly stunned.
     2
         Q.   Are those criteria criteria of consciousness?
     3        A.  Those criteria were based on the behaviour of
              electroencephalogram.
     4
         Q.   What comment do you make about that, or those criteria,
     5        that criterion, I should say?
              A.  For reasons outlined in one of my papers you have
     6        entitled Humane Slaughter, we at Bristol would not accept
              those criteria.
     7
         Q.   We can see that, although I will not be reading it out,
     8        can we not?
              A.  At least I think it is in that paper but, of course,
     9        I can amplify.
 
    10   Q.   I believe it is because you have got encephalographic
              measurements in that paper.
    11
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Could I just ask -- I understand how the
    12        encephalogram might be interpreted as not being stunned
              properly.  Presumably, it depends what sort of standard
    13        you set yourself for proper stunning.  But what about
              sentient?  Does that paper deal with the feeling as well,
    14        the German research?
              A.  Not directly.  It looks at the electroenchephalogram
    15        and from that judges whether they think the animal will be
              sentient or not.  So, it is an interpretation from the
    16        spontaneous electroencephalogram rather than directly
              testing sentience in the animal in a provocative manner.
    17
         Q.   Did they have any clinical testing at all?
    18        A.  In terms of, say, looking for a reflex in terms of a
              stimulus, to the best of my knowledge, no, but I am open
    19        to correction.
 
    20   MR. RAMPTON:  Do you know who the authors of the piece of
              research were?
    21        A.  Schutt Abraham was one of them.
 
    22   Q.   Would you just flick through the orange file V and tell us
              which paper it was of yours which dealt with this
    23        question?  I am not sure I have quite got it right.
              A.  Can you just give me just a few minutes to see?
    24
         Q.   Yes.  You will need a few minutes, I think.
    25        Unfortunately, there is no index so you will have to
              look. 
    26 
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is not L, is it? 
    27
         MR. RAMPTON:  I wondered whether it was L.  Did you say Weisse
    28        Schutt?
              A.  I am sorry.  In the paper that you have I do not
    29        directly criticise Schutt Abraham.
 
    30   Q.   No, you make a reference to it, do it not?
              A.  I am talking about paper C, the one entitled Humane

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