Day 096 - 03 Mar 95 - Page 24


     
     1        extent, or maybe if I looked again I could -- I do not want
     2        to now -- it was difficult to judge whether the sow could
     3        move backwards and forwards to any extent because you could
     4        not see the whole length of the stall?
     5        A.  No, most stalls, the sow can go backwards and forwards,
     6        but not to great degree but they can go back roughly a
     7        metre backwards and forwards.
     8
     9   Q.   But there did not appear to be any real space at all
    10        between the flanks of the sow and the sides of the stall or
    11        crate?
    12        A.  No, that is quite normal because if you have them, say,
    13        wider you can have problems with small sows, etc., trying
    14        to turn around and not succeed sometimes.  So that is why
    15        they keep them -----
    16
    17   Q.   So the bars in a farrowing stall -- can I get away from a
    18        dry sow stall -- of the kind which your operations uses,
    19        are the bars at the side of the stall pretty well up
    20        against the flanks of the sow on each side?
    21        A.  No.  Our sows stalls -- when she stands up, they are,
    22        say, roughly that wide, so that she has room to rub, if she
    23        wants, either side.  But the bars as they come down are
    24        progressively getting wider.
    25
    26   Q.   I understand that because she has to be able to lie down,
    27        apart from anything else, but when she is up on her four
    28        legs at the height her flanks then are, are the bars pretty
    29        close to each flank on each side?
    30        A.  Within a foot or something like that.  Yes, I would say
    31        she -- they rub quite a lot.  They are able to rub their
    32        sides and their backs, if they wish.
    33
    34   MS. STEEL:   Have you been on many visits to the United States
    35        looking at pig farms?
    36        A.  I was there for a week.  That is all.
    37
    38   Q.   So you visited more than this one unit?
    39        A.  I was otherwise visiting meat plants.
    40
    41   Q.   Meat plants?
    42        A.  Yes.
    43
    44   Q.   Did this unit also use farrowing crates?
    45        A.  Yes.
    46
    47   Q.   It did?
    48        A.  Yes.
    49
    50   Q.   They would have been a similar size to the ones shown on 
    51        the film? 
    52        A.  Very similar to what the norm was.  That is very 
    53        difficult to see what the size was on those.  I never saw
    54        that far.
    55
    56   Q.   Was the company already producing meat from another other
    57        setup?
    58        A.  What do you mean by "another setup"?
    59
    60   Q.   Had they only just started going into the pig producing

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