Day 107 - 24 Mar 95 - Page 36
1 production system serves to magnify the contamination.
2
3 Q. Of this particular kind of product that McDonald's serve?
4 A. Indeed, the proportion of food affected, not
5 necessarily the total number, although there almost
6 certainly will be opportunities. The point then devolves
7 is quite significant -- a significant point devolves as to
8 the infective dose of the various organisms dealt with.
9
10 Through the process, given that -- let us assume that we
11 have this -- given there is no multiplication, as you
12 spread the contamination, obviously, there is a dilution
13 effect. But, where we are dealing with organisms such as
14 E.coli 0157, where the available evidence is that very low
15 doses may give rise to disease, a high initial dose
16 subsequently diluted will still end up at the shop at a
17 level capable of causing disease.
18
19 We then have a situation where, essentially, the only
20 single safeguard is that cooking process. That, frankly,
21 is a very fragile system. Anybody who is at all aware of
22 the principles of risk reduction and risk avoidance will be
23 fully conscious that unless you have overlapping
24 safeguards, in other words, fail-safe principles, your
25 system is fragile. In aviation, you may be aware -- to
26 illustrate the principle ----
27
28 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Do not tell me that.
29 A. Sorry.
30
31 MR. MORRIS: Are there any safeguards which because of the
32 products that McDonald's sell, which you have said already
33 are particularly prone to spreading the contamination
34 throughout all the products, is there any system which they
35 could put in place which would actually be more effective
36 in minimising the risk?
37 A. Well, I have pointed out the fragility of the system
38 and mentioned, and will now reinforce that, that more
39 reliance on, say, mechanical systems with ------
40
41 Q. Give us an example?
42 A. I have seen in a not dissimilar context equipment which
43 relies on multiple heating sources, instead of just surface
44 heating, you see tunnel cookers where the food goes through
45 a tunnel rather than simply sits on a heated surface.
46
47 Q. Like a conveyor belt or something?
48 A. A tunnel cooker, yes, with a conveyer belt going
49 through. Now, they then rely on two sources of heating;
50 one is the direct radiation which is what we are dealing
51 with here, and a certain amount of conduction and
52 radiation, but also putting in a microwave facility so that
53 you are actually getting internal heating as well, and then
54 with online remote sensors so that each burger temperature
55 is measured as it goes through the system, coupled to the
56 machine so that if it does not reach the temperature then
57 the machine shuts down and you cannot -----
58
59 Q. Is this actually in operation in any place?
60 A. Yes, I have seen it in Holland. The equipment -----
