Day 239 - 23 Apr 96 - Page 37


     
     1
     2   Q.   That is a different point, but you did not mean to say the
     3        cattle eat the beans, did you?
     4        A.  They eat part of the beans called the meal.  I think it
     5        is fair to say we eat wheat but that does not mean that we
     6        eat every part of the wheat plant.
     7
     8   Q.   Now, you told us this morning something about -- I think
     9        you learned but I want to be sure about this about this --
    10        about the sad experiences, and I do mean that sincerely, of
    11        the Guarani Indians in Mato Grosso do Sul.  Is that
    12        something you have learned or had direct knowledge of?
    13        A.   That is something I have come to a knowledge of
    14        through intensive research into the situation of the
    15        indigenous people of Brazil.
    16
    17   Q.   It is not something you, personally, have been involved in?
    18        A.  I have not been to the Guarani areas.
    19
    20   Q.   No.  I should have asked you.  I did not; I omitted it.
    21        You said you did not know the area around Pontas e
    22        Lacerda.  You did not know the area around Sinop.  Do you
    23        know the area around Nova Xavantina?
    24        A.   Can I just check?
    25
    26   Q.   That is to the east of Cuiba?
    27        A.  No, I have been close to it but I have not been there.
    28
    29   Q.   How close have you been?
    30        A.  I beg your pardon?
    31
    32   Q.   I am sorry;  it is my fault.  I speak indistinctly!  I
    33        apologise.  How close have you been?
    34        A.  It must be within about 100 -- I am just looking at the
    35        scale -- within 100 miles or 150.
    36
    37   Q.   You notice there too, as with the other places, there is or
    38        was in 1983, or between 1973 and 1983, an area of dots
    39        which is agricultural land, quite a large area; FN.  I will
    40        find it in a minute.  Is it FN?
    41        A.   I can see SN.
    42
    43   Q.   It is SN.  I am sorry.  SN in that case is --
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Savanna?
    46        A.   Savanna and seasonal forest.
    47
    48   MR. RAMPTON:   You would not describe that as rainforest, would
    49        you?
    50        A.  It depends.  I mean, without having been there to Nova 
    51        Xavantina and without having seen it, I really could not 
    52        tell you but there may well be stands of forest within that 
    53        area which could be described as rainforest.  In fact, it
    54        is highly likely.
    55
    56   Q.   You described quite a lot, and this is quite seriously Mr.
    57        Monbiot though it may not seem so to you, quite a lot of
    58        the Sahara desert and the Saudi Arabian desert is within
    59        the tropics, is it not?
    60        A.   The Sahara is.  I am not sure if Saudi Arabia, it

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