Day 181 - 01 Nov 95 - Page 54
1 A. Yes. This is a case of where you get cautioned and not
2 fined. The practice would not be to rush to court. The
3 number of prosecutions was very small annually, in single
4 figures. Generally, firms would be reminded of the
5 obligation to actually calculate it properly, and not "busk
6 it", as I used the phrase yesterday, which is to hope that
7 you are there accurately and you may get there by
8 accident. Well, statutes are not supposed to be complied
9 with by accident; you are supposed to comply with them by
10 calculating the figures in the proper manner. But a firm
11 that may have got there by the wrong method and be on or
12 just about right would still be criticised, but there would
13 be an informal advice note given that they should pay in
14 the proper manner.
15
16 MS. STEEL: OK. Thank you.
17
18 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I am conscious that I keep interrupting you,
19 but that, again, is a matter of law; and if it is important
20 -- and it may be important -- then I must in due course
21 (not necessarily now) look at the statutory regulatory
22 provisions and decide that as a matter of law.
23
24 What I suggest you do -- it was a matter I had in mind to
25 ask Mr. Pearson this morning -- when we adjourn, probably
26 not too far into the future, I suggest you ask Mr. Pearson
27 if he will stay, and see if he can give you the appropriate
28 statutory provisions, or arrange for him to telephone you
29 with them at some stage in the future, to save you going on
30 a great hunt for them. Then he can give them to me, and
31 I can get them out of the library.
32
33 MR. MORRIS: May it be possible for Mr. Pearson to do a
34 supplementary statement, where we could give him the
35 payslips that we have got, ask him to make calculations
36 based on them, and indicate any legal framework they should
37 be considered within? He would not have to be recalled,
38 that is what I am saying.
39
40 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You can take that approach if you want, but
41 I can do the arithmetic myself. All I am saying is that
42 I am minded to think at the moment that the proper
43 construction of the order and any schedules under the order
44 is a matter of law which, for better or worse, I as the
45 judge have to decide. If it was a matter of foreign law,
46 you could call expert evidence on it, but it is English
47 law. So, for better or worse, I am supposed to be the
48 expert.
49
50 MR. MORRIS: Just on this issue, a final point. You have said
51 that one method for dealing with a company like McDonald's,
52 rather than visit lots of stores, the wages inspectorate
53 would ask for something like the conditions of contract of
54 employment, which would be the Crew Handbook; yes?
55 A. Yes.
56
57 Q. Is that correct?
58 A. Yes.
59
60 Q. You do not have to go to it yourself, but I can read out
