Day 128 - 24 May 95 - Page 61
1 of letters from the HSE, dated June and September 1994.
2 Although Mrs. Barnes was not asked to refer to those,
3 I have to say I am not surprised she was not asked but,
4 nevertheless, it was thought right to discover them.
5
6 What it seems to me is that the first step is for someone
7 who is qualified to pass a sensible and skilled judgment on
8 the matter, which really, I am afraid, means you or
9 Mr. Atkinson, to look at the Health and Safety Task Force
10 minutes that are available.
11
12 MR. RAMPTON: We will certainly do that. Of course we will.
13 May I say at this stage -- perhaps it is better not to say
14 anything more just now -- your Lordship rightly observes --
15 because I have just looked at it -- there is virtually
16 nothing in the pamphlet about health and safety. There are
17 simply, as far as I can find, these words: "Doing long
18 shifts in hot smelly noisy environments". Then there is
19 something about conditions, but that appears to be hours of
20 work, chances of promotion.
21
22 MR. JUSTICE BELL: "Workers in catering do badly in terms of pay
23 and conditions".
24
25 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, that goes on to be qualified: "Wages are
26 low and..." There are three things, long shifts in hot,
27 smelly, noisy environment, low wages and minimal chances of
28 promotion.
29
30 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I thought health and safety came in under the
31 general umbrella of conditions.
32
33 MR. RAMPTON: That does not mean, of course, we do not have to
34 make discovery in relation to pleadings which are on the
35 record and which have not been struck out.
36
37 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I will not shirk health and safety now there
38 has been all this evidence on it.
39
40 MR. RAMPTON: We have not shirked it either, my Lord. What
41 I was going to say is this, given there is no direct
42 reference to health and safety in the leaflet, apart from
43 noise, length of hours and smell, if there comes to a
44 dispute about it, urge your Lordship, how I would urge
45 your Lordship to approach it is: "Yes, we must make
46 discovery on the pleadings but, given that there is little
47 or nothing about it in the leaflet", then the question
48 becomes: "How far should the discovery need to go beyond
49 the strict pleadings for the fair disposal of the case and
50 the saving of costs?"
51
52 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Can I draw this afternoon's discussion to a
53 conclusion here?
54
55 MS. STEEL: I was just going to say there were some other
56 documents I wanted to mention, which kind of got
57 sidetracked.
58
59 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Discussion then in relation to the Health and
60 Safety Task Force minutes. Someone is going to actually
