Day 114 - 04 Apr 95 - Page 47


     
     1        sufficient of a problem to require a solution.  It is not
     2        just a very rare occurrence.  The other point that I was
     3        about to go on -----
     4
     5   MR. MORRIS:  Could we just clarify, is that related to the
     6        figure you said before about one in four would be
     7        imperfectly stunned?
     8        A.  Yes.  The other difficulty you have is when you measure
     9        these currents, I have said already that if you do not get
    10        them properly placed so the charge goes through the brain,
    11        then you have to be careful because in some places pigs are
    12        sedated by spraying water on them, warm water, which
    13        certainly does tend to calm them down.  But if they go into
    14        the stunning pen and they are wet, there is always a danger
    15        that if the electrodes are not in the right position,
    16        particularly, the current tracks round the conducting wet
    17        surface instead of going through the more resistant part of
    18        the head which is where it should be.
    19
    20   MS. STEEL:  What effect would that have on the pigs?
    21        A.  That would mean the actual current that is going
    22        through the brain will be less than you think it is.
    23        Now  -----
    24
    25   Q.   But in terms of the pigs being stunned what would be the
    26        effect?
    27        A.  It would not be properly stunned and then it would be
    28        stuck while it still had sense of feeling, and it might be
    29        paralysed but it might not be deprived of feeling.  In the
    30        circumstances, it is very difficult to measure all those
    31        things but, in my opinion, as a scientist, if you are in
    32        doubt you should always err on the side of mercy.  You
    33        should always side on giving the stricken animal the
    34        benefit of any doubt.  I think there is grave doubt at this
    35        point.  The other observation -----
    36
    37   Q.   Sorry -- no, it is OK.
    38        A.  Another observation that is relevant to this is that in
    39        some modern slaughterhouses they are going over to what we
    40        call the stun kill method.  Now, to explain that, I am
    41        really -----
    42
    43   MR. MORRIS:  It is probably, OK, but briefly.
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You have to ask yourselves whether this
    46        actually applies to ---
    47
    48   MS. STEEL:  No.
    49
    50   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  -- what we are concerned with in this case. 
    51 
    52   THE WITNESS:  Could I just say that it might ----- 
    53
    54   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, not at the moment.  You will be asked a
    55        further question which relates to the issues in this case.
    56
    57   MS. STEEL:  Are you talking about stunned killing in terms of it
    58        being a better alternative or is this just a general
    59        comment on stun?
    60        A.  No, at the moment I would just say that in some pigs

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