Day 077 - 25 Jan 95 - Page 73


     
     1
     2   Q.   He had done so?
     3        A.  Yes.  He gave me permission to use it.
     4
     5   Q.   Do you remember how it was that you were able to persuade
     6        him to give you that permission?
     7        A.  On the basis that I had with various telephone
     8        conversations established very clearly it was coming from
     9        Barretos which is nowhere the north part of Brazil.  Most
    10        importantly the Intervention Board issued licences on a
    11        very tight time, and if we did not get that beef in from
    12        Brazil we would have lost the licence and had to pay a
    13        financial penalty.
    14
    15   Q.   Bearing in mind that financial penalty, the commercial cost
    16        to you, if you had believed that the beef came from a
    17        rainforest area of Brazil would you have taken it
    18        nonetheless because of the financial penalty?
    19        A.  No, I could not have done, sir.
    20
    21   Q.   Why not?
    22        A.  Because McDonald's would have been absolutely furious
    23        about it.
    24
    25   Q.   But why?  It would have cost them less?
    26        A.  Well, yes, but by this time now McDonald's were paying
    27        attention to the rainforest and once it started in Canada
    28        and went to Oak Brook and came back to England, I am sure
    29        that we would not have used it.
    30
    31   Q.   Then you write towards the bottom of page 12: "The
    32        background to all of this is as follows.  HRH Duke of
    33        Edinburgh was recently at a Word-Wide Wildlife function in
    34        Canada and during the social gathering over cocktails, our
    35        McDonald's man in Canada was presented." Who was that at
    36        that date?
    37        A.  Cohen.
    38
    39   Q.   I think his first name is George, is it?
    40        A.  Yes.
    41
    42   Q.   "Whereupon the conversation went something like this: 'So
    43        you are the people who are tearing down the Brazilian
    44        rainforests and breeding cattle', to which he reply was:
    45        'I think you are mistaken', whereupon HRH said, 'Rubbish'
    46        and stormed away."  You were not there, I take it?
    47        A.  I was not there.
    48
    49   Q.   That is what Bob Rhea told you?
    50        A.  Yes. 
    51 
    52   Q.   And you reported to Mr. Bartram? 
    53        A.  Yes.
    54
    55   Q.   The next page: "Our man in Canada" that is Mr. Cohen "is
    56        very ethical."  Do you know him or did you know him at this
    57        time?
    58        A.  I have met him, yes.
    59
    60   Q.   "And not one who would lie to the President of the

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