Day 092 - 27 Feb 95 - Page 38
1 A. There is not a -- you are trying to, you are asking me
2 a black and white question which it is not. You cannot say
3 if it does pain, how much. You are concentrating on a
4 little piece of the equation. We have to look at the
5 entire animal from day one until it produces food. You
6 have to balance the pros and the cons. If you do not
7 debeak, you are going to have a higher incidence of animals
8 pecking on each other and doing more harm than it is when
9 they are, that it is if it is their pain during debeaking
10 on day one. You have to balance all of that. If you do
11 not do it, it is kind of like whether or not you provide
12 antibiotics. Are you going to provide antibiotics or are
13 you going to let the animal suffer from a disease? You
14 have to balance that.
15
16 Q. You have to balance it, do you not?
17 A. Yes, we do.
18
19 Q. I do not balance it. You choose to raise chickens in that
20 way?
21 A. Yes, we do.
22
23 Q. You choose to put more than one in a cage, do you not?
24 A. Yes, we do.
25
26 Q. You choose to put them in the cage in the first place?
27 A. Yes, we do.
28
29 Q. It is your choice?
30 A. Yes.
31
32 Q. So if it is found that debeaking caused pain that would not
33 lead to you rule that it should be stopped?
34 A. No. You hear my question, not necessarily. We have to
35 look at the entire cycle of the animal and see all the
36 factors in consideration. We do not look at one cycle or
37 one little thing and make a conclusion. It will be totally
38 wrong to not debeak if you know that it is going to hurt
39 the animal during its entire life if you do not debeak it
40 at day one.
41
42 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, might I mention something? Mr. Morris
43 and Ms. Steel as well mentioned something about findings in
44 relation to debeaking. Ms. Steel mentioned what appeared
45 to be some kind of research on it. I have looked at the
46 statement of Clare Druce who is the Defendants' chicken
47 expert. I find nothing about debeaking and no reference to
48 that piece of the research. If this is going to proceed
49 down an evidential road, then we shall require disclosure
50 of all relevant documents including that piece of research.
51
52 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Right. If you were merely putting it to see
53 if you got an answer which helped you, there you are; if
54 you proposed positively to rely on it beyond what you put
55 in questioning, then we should have a copy of any paper
56 which has come from the study.
57
58 MS. STEEL: We will try to get a copy but, equally, it would be
59 help if we had all the papers that Mr. Gomez Gonzalez is
60 claiming to have read in relation to this subject and
