Day 188 - 15 Nov 95 - Page 56


     
     1        sure that Mr. Morris was aware of that.
     2
     3   MS. STEEL:   Right.
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I know Mr. Rampton is aware of it.
     6
     7   MS. STEEL:  I mean, obviously, on that occasion the basis was a
     8        contradiction between something he had earlier said.
     9
    10   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I know you say that; and when I consider
    11        Mr. Walker's evidence, I will have to think about that.
    12        But I know that you are representing yourselves, and
    13        because I know -- as you say Mr. Lamti is -- people can be
    14        offended by allegations that they are lying, for which they
    15        may see no basis, I wanted to make sure that you were aware
    16        that it is not right to suggest that someone is lying
    17        unless you have some basis for it.  I do not have to say
    18        that to Mr. Rampton, because I know he knows that.  But
    19        what he does not have to do is disclose the basis for it.
    20
    21   MS. STEEL:   If I can just say for the record that I do not
    22        think either of us would dream of accusing anyone of lying
    23        unless we had some basis for it.
    24
    25   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Well, I do not know.  The reason I say I do
    26        not know is, I know people with some pecker can get up in
    27        litigation and sometimes people put things which, in a
    28        calmer situation, they would not put.  You did not remind
    29        me that I made the comment to Mr. Morris, but I remember
    30        perfectly well I did, and that was the reason why I did it
    31        and no more.  But the fact is, you can challenge someone
    32        because your instructions are that that is not accurate.
    33        It may be a situation where it is not true; there cannot be
    34        any question of mistake; therefore, it must follow that it
    35        is a lie.  Then one has not got to beat around the bush,
    36        and you can say: "That is a lie."
    37
    38        You do not, as I understand the code of conduct at the Bar,
    39        have to reveal what the basis for it is.  Where, on some
    40        occasions, a barrister may find himself accused of
    41        misconduct is where, for some reason or another, it is
    42        quite apparent that there was no basis which any reasonable
    43        barrister could accept for putting the allegation of lying
    44        or, indeed, no instructions.  But I am not prepared to
    45        assume that.
    46
    47   MR. MORRIS:  I would say in this case there is absolutely no
    48        basis; there is clearly no basis; and just because
    49        McDonald's France may have made some complaints which no
    50        judge has yet taken seriously in France -- which no doubt 
    51        is a reason why McDonald's France as well have tried and 
    52        discredit Mr. Lamti -- I do not think that a kind of 
    53        hearsay, unsubstantiated tactical manoeuvre in France is a
    54        basis for challenging one of our witnesses in a courtroom
    55        here in this country; and I think that the allegation
    56        should be withdrawn by Mr. Rampton.
    57
    58   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I disagree with you.  The basis for the
    59        challenge -- whether I pay any attention to the challenge
    60        is another matter entirely and completely for me to judge.

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