Day 087 - 10 Feb 95 - Page 37
1 MR. MORRIS: I think that would be very helpful.
2
3 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, I would be very, very unhappy about your
4 Lordship starting to draft pleadings for the Defendants.
5
6 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No, it is not a pleading. It is a list of
7 matters which, as I see it, I have yet to be addressed
8 upon.
9
10 MR. RAMPTON: That is quite different, of course. I would
11 welcome that. Before any question of further discovery in
12 relation to Brazil arose, I might want to address your
13 Lordship at length on the relationship between pleading and
14 discovery (as I have done in the past but might well wish
15 to do it again) as outlined by the late 1960 cases which
16 were left undisturbed (as they had to be) by the Court of
17 Appeal in its recent judgment.
18
19 There is, as your Lordship knows, and has remained in place
20 a vital distinction between a pleading based on proper
21 grounds and what might be called a fishing expedition based
22 on wishful thinking and speculation. My Lord, that is a
23 serious question in this case. I would not want the
24 Defendants to think that simply by producing a piece of
25 paper asserting what they would like to believe was the
26 position they could get discovery.
27
28 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I hope I was not suggesting that either. It
29 may or may not come to that at the end of the day. But
30 what I was proposing was a list of loose ends which the
31 Defendants may want to argue further or which, in any
32 event, I have not heard what you have to say, Mr. Rampton.
33
34 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, my list does not include Brazil because,
35 as far as I can tell, the Defendants make a negative
36 allegation to this effect, that they do not believe what
37 Lord Vesty said in that letter. If that is a case of
38 justification, then (and I put it bluntly) I am a Dutch
39 man. That far no further do I go at present. I do not
40 believe that I have anything further that I need to say
41 about Brazil. There is no case. That is one.
42
43 Can I tell your Lordship -----
44
45 MR. MORRIS: It is not about the Vesty matter; it is about the
46 general use of beef in Brazil.
47
48 MR. RAMPTON: No, please, Mr. Morris. My Lord, unless and until
49 there is a case on Brazil, I do not believe there is
50 anything for me to argue about.
51
52 MR. JUSTICE BELL: The trouble is, it is not pleaded yet.
53
54 MR. MORRIS: No.
55
56 MR. JUSTICE BELL: If it came to be pleaded then there might be
57 arguments about whether it should be or not if an
58 application was made for leave. There is a pleading at the
59 moment in there (which might not have been after last
60 November but is there) to the effect that if any beef is
