Day 096 - 03 Mar 95 - Page 52
1 Q. You said in your other evidence that, because Mr. Gregory
2 had noticed a lot of activity in pigs after being stunned,
3 did he not, yes?
4 A. Yes.
5
6 Q. But not all of them were active, were they? Some were
7 still and some were active?
8 A. Yes, that is correct.
9
10 Q. That is right?
11 A. I would say that the majority are active.
12
13 Q. You said: "It has been proven that a pig is more dead when
14 it is active than one that is still". How can you be "more
15 dead"? What you mean is when they are still then they
16 still have consciousness?
17 A. Well, I will apologise for my English because to say
18 "more dead" is probably totally wrong to say such a thing,
19 because I believe the medical profession agonise over what
20 death is and when it is, etc., so it is probably a mistake
21 on my part to speak like that. When they go through that
22 they have all been proven to be dead, and the only example
23 that I can make personally of the pig being "more dead",
24 more active, is simply if you ever see in, say, kosher
25 killing or something like that, with a chicken's head
26 chopped off, that is when you see the most active reaction.
27
28 Q. Yes, I believe it is illegal to chop a chicken's head off
29 unless it is ----
30 A. In ritual slaughter, OK.
31
32 Q. -- because of the welfare implications of that?
33 A. I will say that if you simply cut the throat straight
34 across like I have seen many years ago when that has been
35 done in the East End of London, I have seen that many, many
36 years ago and that was the reaction I have seen.
37
38 Q. You say that you use a captive bolt pistol as a backup if a
39 stun has been unsuccessful. Would not someone in the pen
40 just stun again if the stun did not work?
41 A. No. No. 1, the stunners, the stunning tongs cannot
42 reach the position where the pig is when it is on the bleed
43 line, and if it falls off the bleed line which is, you
44 know, when they kick, that is a possibility, and then that
45 is where we have the gun there, purely and simply for that
46 reason.
47
48 Q. So what percentage of pigs would that be used on?
49 A. Very few. Unfortunately, Dr. Gregory saw a high
50 percentage -- but very few.
51
52 Q. If an animal has some disease problem when it is checked
53 after it has been slaughtered, you say you take that
54 seriously, do you? You take the hygiene of the meat
55 seriously?
56 A. Definitely. By law you have to comply also. Everyone
57 does in the country.
58
59 Q. So what percentage of carcasses are rejected,
60 approximately?
