Day 096 - 03 Mar 95 - Page 52


     
     1   Q.   You said in your other evidence that, because Mr. Gregory
     2        had noticed a lot of activity in pigs after being stunned,
     3        did he not, yes?
     4        A.  Yes.
     5
     6   Q.   But not all of them were active, were they?  Some were
     7        still and some were active?
     8        A.  Yes, that is correct.
     9
    10   Q.   That is right?
    11        A.  I would say that the majority are active.
    12
    13   Q.   You said:  "It has been proven that a pig is more dead when
    14        it is active than one that is still".  How can you be "more
    15        dead"?  What you mean is when they are still then they
    16        still have consciousness?
    17        A.  Well, I will apologise for my English because to say
    18        "more dead" is probably totally wrong to say such a thing,
    19        because I believe the medical profession agonise over what
    20        death is and when it is, etc., so it is probably a mistake
    21        on my part to speak like that.  When they go through that
    22        they have all been proven to be dead, and the only example
    23        that I can make personally of the pig being "more dead",
    24        more active, is simply if you ever see in, say, kosher
    25        killing or something like that, with a chicken's head
    26        chopped off, that is when you see the most active reaction.
    27
    28   Q.   Yes, I believe it is illegal to chop a chicken's head off
    29        unless it is ----
    30        A.  In ritual slaughter, OK.
    31
    32   Q.   -- because of the welfare implications of that?
    33        A.  I will say that if you simply cut the throat straight
    34        across like I have seen many years ago when that has been
    35        done in the East End of London, I have seen that many, many
    36        years ago and that was the reaction I have seen.
    37
    38   Q.   You say that you use a captive bolt pistol as a backup if a
    39        stun has been unsuccessful.  Would not someone in the pen
    40        just stun again if the stun did not work?
    41        A.  No.  No. 1, the stunners, the stunning tongs cannot
    42        reach the position where the pig is when it is on the bleed
    43        line, and if it falls off the bleed line which is, you
    44        know, when they kick, that is a possibility, and then that
    45        is where we have the gun there, purely and simply for that
    46        reason.
    47
    48   Q.   So what percentage of pigs would that be used on?
    49        A.  Very few.  Unfortunately, Dr. Gregory saw a high
    50        percentage -- but very few. 
    51 
    52   Q.   If an animal has some disease problem when it is checked 
    53        after it has been slaughtered, you say you take that
    54        seriously, do you?  You take the hygiene of the meat
    55        seriously?
    56        A.  Definitely.  By law you have to comply also.  Everyone
    57        does in the country.
    58
    59   Q.   So what percentage of carcasses are rejected,
    60        approximately?

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