Day 020 - 28 Jul 94 - Page 63


     
     1
         Q.   They were not jumping on and sliding down of their own
     2        accord?
              A.  There was some coercion, yes, but it was not violent
     3        or vigorous coercion as you sometimes see in unloading
              pigs from lorries, yes.
     4
         Q.   How many pigs did you see being slaughtered?
     5        A.  I do not recall offhand.  I do not think it is in the
              report either.  No, I would not like to comment.  I do not
     6        know.
 
     7   Q.   You do not know?
              A.  I do not know, no.
     8
         Q.   Have you no idea at all?
     9        A.  Well, bearing in mind the period I was there, it was
              no longer than an hour and a quarter observing the
    10        stunning and slaughtering area.  Some of that would be
              interrupted because there was somebody alongside me who
    11        might be saying something, or I might be looking at
              facilities as against the individual animals being stunned
    12        and slaughtered.  So I would be assessing an overall
              situation, so it is difficult to say what proportion of my
    13        time was spent actually observing the actual acts of
              stunning and slaughter.
    14
         Q.   But you do not know how many were slaughtered in total
    15        while you were there?
              A.  Well, let us say -- I am afraid we are getting into
    16        the realms of trying to not -----
 
    17   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, one can see from page 9 of his report.
 
    18   MS. STEEL:   Can you not interrupt?
 
    19   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, I am afraid you have to accept that it
              is part of normal court conduct to have interruptions from
    20        time to time -- the fewer the better -- but they are
              either to make formal objection or quite often in an
    21        attempt to help in one way or another.
 
    22   MR. RAMPTON:  It is intended to help.
 
    23   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  If you have been told by someone there
              should be no interruptions at all, you have been
    24        misinformed.
 
    25   MR. RAMPTON:  On page 9 -- I merely observe this; I think it
              does help, I may be wrong -- Dr. Gregory writes:  "At the 
    26        company's abattoir pigs are being killed at 200 to 240 per 
              hour".  That may help him give a rough guide to the number 
    27        he may have seen during the time he was there. That is
              all.
    28        A.  I did have that in mind.  However, as I explained to
              Ms. Steel, only a proportion of the time I was in that
    29        position was spent actually observing the acts of stunning
              and slaughter.  So let us -----
    30
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Does that help, you going back to the

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