Day 112 - 31 Mar 95 - Page 23


     
     1
     2   Q.   Would he be fingering the meat then?
     3        A.  Yes -- well, no, he would not be fingering the meat but
     4        there is a risk for contamination in general in ------
     5
     6   Q.   Tell me how it occurs.
     7        A.  Pardon?
     8
     9   Q.   How does it occur if he does not touch the meat?
    10        A.  He uses knives that he uses throughout the day.  He
    11        does not stand there all day.  He moves -- the meat
    12        inspectors are moved every 45 minutes about from different
    13        job to another because the monotony of the work causes them
    14        to be less ----
    15
    16   Q.   Observant?
    17        A.  -- observant, so we change their positions very often.
    18        If they do not sterilize their knives throughout the day --
    19        I understand Mr. Bennett explained that -- those are the
    20        only witness' evidence that I have seen -- Mr. Bennett
    21        explained very carefully the difference between actual
    22        sterilization, scientific sterilization, and the
    23        disinfection that we actually do when we talk about
    24        sterilization in the abattoir, we are not sterilization --
    25        we are bringing down the contamination level so to keep
    26        them at acceptable levels.
    27
    28   Q.   We understand that.  I do not mind which word; which word
    29        do you prefer, "disinfection" or "sterilization"?
    30        A.  Well, I prefer sterilization because that is the
    31        professional jargon.
    32
    33   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is what everyone uses.   I have taken
    34        the point that it does not actually mean sterilization.
    35        A.  I just wanted to point that out because, in this
    36        particular case, there is a risk of massive contamination.
    37        He is dealing with the gut and he is incising gut lymph
    38        nodes, if need be, during his work, and then he is
    39        disinfecting his knife that has a massive contamination and
    40        that is ------
    41
    42   Q.   He is or he is not?
    43        A.  He is not while working there for 45 minutes because he
    44        has no access to a sterilizer.
    45
    46   Q.   I am afraid I am not following.
    47
    48   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Could you just pause a moment, Mr. Rampton?
    49        Is the point you are making that there should be
    50        sterilization in the true sense? 
    51        A.  No, that is not my point.  My point is that at every 
    52        point where the knives are used in the abattoir, because 
    53        those same knives can be used at other -- it is impossible
    54        to supervise the situation so that those knives are not
    55        used for some other purpose.  So, there should be, when the
    56        knives are used in the abattoir, there should be constant
    57        decontamination by sterilization, as we see it there, to
    58        avoid build up of extreme contamination.
    59
    60   MR. RAMPTON:  What is the problem with the meat inspector or the

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