Day 035 - 12 Oct 94 - Page 72
1 because of modulations, so it is not quite as clear cut.
2
3 Q. It is too late to go down the silk road at the moment, I
4 think, Dr. Barnard. What his Lordship was pointing out,
5 was that one of the witness, at least, had said that small
6 black lump at the bottom of that column represented those
7 foods or elements in food which had been identified as
8 being directly causative of cancer.
9
10 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Pretty cast-iron, if you see what I mean,
11 the special cases?
12 A. I see. I have not had the opportunity -----
13
14 Q. You an probably put the two per cent of black aside, but
15 I just wanted to explain to you what the evidence is which
16 we have had on that. We may well have more.
17 A. Thank you, yes. I have not had the opportunity to
18 look at that.
19
20 MR. RAMPTON: I ask you finally to notice this about this chart
21 in relation to your answers to his Lordship about smoking
22 and lung cancer: The black 30 per cent for tobacco and
23 the grey 33 per cent for food, do you have any comment to
24 make about that?
25 A. I think, in part, it does reflect the fact that there
26 has been -- that the attention on tobacco was earlier and
27 more aggressive. However, given the fact that,
28 I mentioned yesterday or the day before, in my testimony,
29 I think that there is something other than a weight of
30 evidence occurring here when we are speaking about public
31 policy, because the evidence on tobacco and lung cancer,
32 as compelling as I, indeed, believe it, has very serious
33 holes in it particularly regarding animal research and
34 regarding mechanisms.
35
36 However, perhaps in part due to the accumulation of
37 evidence, in part due to the unpopularity of the tobacco
38 industry, and due simply to the passage of time where
39 people have been able to get used to the idea, it is
40 something they once thought was innocuous is, in fact,
41 dangerous. People are quite confident in saying that
42 tobacco is dangerous. That process does seem to have
43 begun in regards diet as well and much the same factors
44 are occurring because people have to deal with their own
45 diets, industries are involved that are asserting their
46 concerns, and I think that, in part, what we are seeing on
47 this graph is a reflection of the science of it, and some
48 caution, I think, perhaps comes from other sources as
49 well.
50
51 What I am heartened by is that in both cases what is being
52 suggested here is that, in fact, there is a
53 cause-and-effect relationship, not conclusively for this
54 bulk of diet, but that without cause-and-effect there
55 could not be possibly be any hope of prevention. So, in
56 that sense that graph is optimistic and presents the
57 opportunity of knowing what may, in fact, be responsible
58 for some cases of cancer.
59
60 Q. Dr. Barnard, I could not agree with you more. I mean, if
