Day 077 - 25 Jan 95 - Page 56
1 each different kind, or some of them, at any rate, of
2 organism is judged, the safety of it. You see what "n",
3 "c", "M" and "m" mean if you turn to the next page?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5
6 Q. I am sure you know what they are but we may not.
7
8 MR. JUSTICE BELL: The "88" is a year, is it, in the EC
9 Directive?
10 A. Yes sir.
11
12 Q. Would you have had to observe that since 1988?
13 A. No, sir. The Minced Beef, the draft Minced Beef
14 Directive 88/657 has been in draft form from Brussels since
15 1988, and it just became law and was accepted by the
16 Council of Ministers in December last. So, it is now law
17 in 12 months time. It is still draft at the moment.
18
19 MR. RAMPTON: I am not going to ask you any questions about the
20 columns, I think they probably speak for themselves, save
21 perhaps this, what is Cl. perfringens. What sort of a
22 thing is that?
23 A. Clostridium.
24
25 Q. It is like the clostridium botulinum, it is that family, is
26 it?
27 A. Yes.
28
29 Q. Does it have the same catastrophic effect on humans?
30 A. No, sir.
31
32 Q. We see that they are described as anerobes. Are all
33 clostridium bacteria anerobes in that way?
34 A. Yes, sir.
35
36 Q. Turn over the page, please. You say there on page 39,
37 "These standards are the same," that is to say the EC
38 standards which, if this is 1991, are not yet law, "These
39 standards are the same as those employed by McKey Food
40 Service for the microbiological evaluation of McDonald's
41 hamburger patties. Is that true or false?
42 A. The standards are the same, but I have to update you,
43 sir.
44
45 Q. Yes, please.
46 A. That the actual accepted draft mince beef directive for
47 various complicated technical reasons has had the
48 bacteriology standards removed from it.
49
50 Q. Why?
51 A. I do not know why, sir. Probably Brussels could not
52 satisfy themselves arguing.
53
54 Q. But you are, nonetheless, going to go on applying these
55 standards?
56 A. We will. We always have applied those standards, and
57 we will go on doing it.
58
59 Q. I was wondering. It may be suggested to you, I do not
60 know, that you have only done this detail microbiological
