Day 072 - 12 Jan 95 - Page 69


     
     1        say.
     2
     3   MS. STEEL:  I wanted to clarify what Mr. Rampton said about that
     4        he could see some circumstances where an employee could be
     5        sacked.  If that is solely referring to if such an employee
     6        had demonstrably been shown to be lying in the witness box,
     7        then that is one thing, but he did not actually say what he
     8        was referring to.  Perhaps it would be helpful if the
     9        Plaintiffs would give an undertaking that they would not
    10        sack anybody for giving evidence provided that it had not
    11        been demonstrated that they had deliberately lied in the
    12        witness box because that might alleviate some current
    13        employees' fears about coming to give evidence.
    14
    15   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  If Mr. Rampton chooses to give that assurance
    16        he can, but it is entirely a matter for him and his
    17        clients.  The difficulty with that situation, as I see it,
    18        with no axe to grind on one side or the other in this case,
    19        I can imagine that someone might be working in a particular
    20        restaurant where they like to think of themselves always as
    21        a happy team working together.  If someone comes along to
    22        court and gives evidence which is highly critical, and for
    23        all I know maybe inaccurate, even though the person giving
    24        it thinks it is accurate, then the employer may be upset by
    25        that.  Whether if the employer were upset and did anything
    26        to prejudice that person's employment that would in any way
    27        be justifiable morally or in law is another matter
    28        entirely, but I really do not think it is for me as a judge
    29        to embark on that.
    30
    31        I fear I may have said more than is required of me in any
    32        event.  All I can say is that I will ask Mr. Rampton in a
    33        moment if there is anything further he wants to say, if he
    34        wants to address me on some other point.  But you are
    35        perfectly entitled to encourage people to have the courage
    36        of their convictions if they have valid complaints to make
    37        or complaints which they say are valid.
    38
    39        You must refresh your memory or ask my further assistance
    40        as to what the powers of the court are to order them to
    41        come.  Remember there might be well be circumstances if you
    42        explain the facts to me as you thought them to be where
    43        I would not call upon you to provide a written statement in
    44        advance.
    45
    46        What I think you should do when we adjourn, when you have
    47        heard what Mr. Rampton has had to say this afternoon, if a
    48        particular situation arises where you would like to call a
    49        particular witness but have a particular anxiety or
    50        reservation about it, then to air that specific case.  We 
    51        could in certain circumstances go into chambers. 
    52 
    53   MR. RAMPTON:  That is the point that I was going to raise.  This
    54        matter should have been raised in chambers.  We were not
    55        forewarned of it.  We notice -- I doubt that it is a
    56        coincidence -- that the reporter from the Independent
    57        newspaper turned up some time this afternoon.  I would ask
    58        your Lordship in view of the fact that this matter was
    59        raised without notice, without substantiation, without
    60        chapter and verse, without names or subject matter, that

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