Day 283 - 21 Oct 96 - Page 38


     
     1        save that if things are matters that are well known, as it
     2        were, the world round, they can be relied upon as well.
     3        That is no doubt a rather sloppy -----
     4
     5   MR. RAMPTON:   I only just say, it may help, I think probably on
     6        the law the correct order is stated, or sufficiently
     7        referred to.
     8
     9   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Yes, sufficiently referred to.  But I have
    10        taken the opportunity as early as this to mention it
    11        because it is not a matter which was necessarily easy to
    12        take hold of in the context of this case.  If, when you
    13        come to it, you say bad pay is a statement of fact, that
    14        does not trouble me; we can just look and see whether the
    15        pay is bad or low or repressed, or whatever.  If it is a
    16        matter of comment and there is nothing in the leaflet to
    17        show what the basis for that comment is, at the moment it
    18        seems to me it can only be defended by a justification of
    19        it as a statement of fact, not defended as fair comment.
    20
    21        If you say bad conditions of employment is a comment rather
    22        than a statement of fact, then it can be justified by
    23        matters referred to -- sorry, I should not have used the
    24        word 'justified', it can be defended as being fair comment
    25        bearing in mind the matters of fact which are established,
    26        which might include low pay or noisy, smelly environment or
    27        long hours, and so on, provided they are sufficiently
    28        referred to in the leaflet.  But it cannot be defended as
    29        fair comment by looking at health and safety because that
    30        is nowhere referred to in the leaflet.  If you say bad
    31        conditions are a statement of fact and a general charge,
    32        then you can refer to matters like health and safety which
    33        are not referred to in the leaflet.  I am not going to
    34        invite any reaction from Mr. Rampton to that.  I say it in
    35        case you do get a copy of the transcript and you do go off
    36        and get some legal advice, someone may help you as to it.
    37        When you actually come to employment, I will raise it
    38        again.
    39
    40   MR. MORRIS:   Right.
    41
    42   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   And where you go through each topic,
    43        economic, imperialism, destruction of the rainforest,
    44        nutrition, advertising, rearing and slaughter, food
    45        poisoning and employment -- I have taken them in that order
    46        because I think that is the order they crop up in the
    47        leaflet -- I will ask you, do you accept that we are
    48        dealing with statements of fact here, where justification
    49        is the primary defence or do you say some of it is
    50        comment?   If you do say it is comment, and it is fair 
    51        comment, what are the facts to which there is sufficient 
    52        reference in the leaflet which you say are proved and which 
    53        make the comment fair?   But there we are, do not worry
    54        about it.  I would like you to go back to your previous
    55        thing rather than venture into a discussion here.
    56
    57   MR. MORRIS:   What makes me -----
    58
    59   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   It is a matter I do not necessarily find
    60        easy, which is why I have raised it with you.

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