Day 019 - 27 Jul 94 - Page 50


     
     1   MS. STEEL:  I do not think there has been an admission.  This
              is actually one of the things I was going to bring up
     2        tomorrow in respect of interrogatories.  I mean, I might
              be wrong but I do not think so.
     3
         MR. RAMPTON:  Yes, I think you might; I might be wrong too but
     4        I do not think I am.
 
     5   MR. MORRIS:  I do not know, it is up to the Plaintiffs to show
              us the admission.
     6
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause a moment.  We are considering
     7        living conditions so far as Oasters are concerned.  It is
              not the method of destruction or death.  What the leaflet
     8        says -- because however the matter is pleaded, I suppose,
              at the end of the day one has to go back to that -- is:
     9         "Some of them, especially chickens and pigs, spend their
              lives in the entirely artificial conditions of huge
    10        factory farms with no access to air and sunshine and no
              freedom of movement".  Then it says:  "Their deaths are
    11        bloody and barbaric".
 
    12   MR. RAMPTON:  That has got nothing to do with -----
 
    13   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  If, in fact, those three lines on page 5 are
              admitted -----
    14
         MR. RAMPTON:  That is a discrete allegation.  What is in the
    15        leaflet is, with respect, only relevant to the question
              obviously to the extent of the defamation and to the
    16        defendants' motive.  So far as truth or falsity is
              concerned, what matters is what is in the defence, because
    17        that is the whole extent of that which the defendants are
              entitled to seek to prove in this court.
    18
              Where any specific allegation has been made which is
    19        admitted, that issue is taken out of the case for the very
              good reason that it limits the amount of time, money and
    20        effort that is expended in court in dealing with it.
 
    21   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Am I not entitled to look at the degree of
              it, even if it is admitted, if it is said to be torture --
    22        not giving any indication of what I might think about it
              at the end of the day -- but is not degree relevant to
    23        that?
 
    24   MR. RAMPTON:  Degree of what?
 
    25   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Degree, for instance, of how many chickens
              there are in a battery cage of a certain size. 
    26 
         MR. RAMPTON:  I would submit it has to be distinctly alleged 
    27        that there is, what shall I say, a very large number of
              chickens used for this purpose by McDonald's suppliers.
    28        It has to be alleged (which may be implicit in it) that
              such conditions are not in the interests of animal
    29        welfare.  I dare say the defendants might be entitled to
              ask Dr. Gregory what he thinks about that.  Beyond that, I
    30        do not believe they are entitled to go.
 

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