Day 060 - 02 Dec 94 - Page 65


     
     1   Q.   So that is a fact?  That practice is a fact?
     2        A.  Yes, in America.
     3
     4   Q.   That is because, is it not, there is a difference between
     5        using -- for example, I think the previous witness we had
     6        was Mr. Mallinson from the "Forests Forever" and The Timber
     7        Trade Federation, and he said that when planks are cut up
     8        in a sawmill, whatever comes off that process is then
     9        transferred to a pulp mill and could be classified or, in
    10        fact, is classified as recycled material?
    11        A.  Yes.
    12
    13   Q.   But that is vastly different in terms of environmental
    14        concerns, is it not, from ---
    15        A.  That is.
    16
    17   Q.   -- post-consumer material which is returning ---
    18        A.  Yes, but you are just taking  -----
    19
    20   Q.   -- an already finished product?
    21        A.  You are just taking one context of post-industrial
    22        waste which is wood shavings.  By far the largest amount of
    23        industrial waste would be created in paper that had been
    24        produced incorrectly or cut up wrongly or wasted in a
    25        printing plant, that would be by far the greatest amount,
    26        much more than wood shavings would ever be.  So you have to
    27        look at the total context.
    28
    29   Q.   So when you say "recycled content" you mean it is,
    30        generally, post-industrial waste rather than post-consumer
    31        waste?
    32        A.  No, I do not mean that.
    33
    34   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Might I suggest you, first of all, ask him
    35        why the Americans think it important, in case Mr. Oakley
    36        knows, I do not think he does, to distinguish between the
    37        two?
    38
    39   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.
    40
    41   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  When declaring that paper is to some given
    42        extent recycled.  Do you know?
    43        A.  I really do not know, no.
    44
    45   MR. MORRIS:  You do not know?
    46        A.  I just said I do not know.
    47
    48   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I did not know either.  You see, if you think
    49        you know the reason, just by way of informing me, put it to
    50        Mr. Oakley.  He will then say:  "I do not know" but at 
    51        least I might have a lead on it. 
    52 
    53   MR. MORRIS:  I am sure we can do no better than McDonald's
    54        document.
    55
    56   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do you know yourself?  You have raised this
    57        as if it is important; just put it to him.
    58
    59   MR. MORRIS:  I put it to you that the reclamation of packaging
    60        after it has been consumed, post-consumer waste, is an

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