Day 184 - 06 Nov 95 - Page 40


     
     1
     2   Q.   And to find out what union means, the only way you would be
     3        able to do that would be by talking to people?
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is not necessarily what "union" means.
     6        You may sign something and not know what obligation, if
     7        any, you have entered into.  It does not necessarily --
     8        I mean, if you want to find out what it means, ask about
     9        it, but I have not automatically interpreted it as meaning
    10        what a union or what the union meant.
    11
    12   MR. MORRIS:  Right.  Is that what you mean, though, that you did
    13        not quite know what unions were about?
    14        A.  No, I did not.
    15
    16   Q.   Right.  You said in your paragraph 15 that you had learned
    17        during the course of that week a number of other crew
    18        members had also signed union cards, either because they
    19        had been badgered or because they had been promised job
    20        security and enhanced benefits, or both.
    21
    22        The kind of things we were talking about before, the
    23        benefits, did people feel -- your position is, as
    24        I understand it, is it not, that people felt misinformed
    25        about those kind of benefits?
    26        A.  Yes.
    27
    28   Q.   Those kind of things such as pensions and dental -----
    29        A.  I think that they were misinformed about the whole
    30        thing.
    31
    32   Q.   Right.  But the things about pensions, dental payments,
    33        wage increases, and the other -- whatever we mentioned
    34        before -- they are perfectly normal in some jobs, are they
    35        not?
    36
    37   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, they may be.  But, as I understand it,
    38        that is not the point that the witness is making.  Perhaps
    39        you had better check.  These things may be taken for
    40        granted in one job but not the next.  What she was saying
    41        was, she was led to believe that if they joined a union
    42        they would automatically get various benefits like
    43        increased pay and protection from sacking; and then she
    44        found that these things were to be negotiated, or it was
    45        hoped that they would be negotiated.  But when she was told
    46        about them there was no mention of negotiation; it was just
    47        that these would follow.  (To the witness):  Am I wrong
    48        about that or right about that?
    49        A.  You are right about that.
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is what this witness is telling me. 
    52        Hence, that is why she feels she was misinformed. 
    53
    54   MR. MORRIS:  Yes -- bearing in mind that our witness is likely
    55        to say they were things to be negotiated.
    56
    57   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I will hear that evidence in due course, but
    58        we have Miss Iurilla giving evidence at the moment.
    59
    60   MR. MORRIS:  Right.  (To the witness): If, in your eyes, you

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