Day 285 - 23 Oct 96 - Page 26


     
     1
     2   MR. MORRIS:   Well, they would sell themselves to a client,
     3        they would portray themselves as providing what that
     4        client wanted without consideration of the truth.  I did
     5        -----
     6
     7   MR. RAMPTON:   That is quite a serious allegation to make.  I
     8        am very good at counting up, but I don't know how many
     9        times Mr. Morris mentioned liars or lies this morning,
    10        somebody is counting that up.  That is actually quite a
    11        serious allegation to make.  I notice there are some press
    12        here, which is why I stood up.  We had better have chapter
    13        and verse for that.
    14
    15   MR. MORRIS:   First of all, Mr. Rampton cannot tell me what
    16        I am to do.
    17
    18   MR JUSTICE BELL:  I think you should give me the reference at
    19        some stage.
    20
    21   MR. MORRIS:   This is the Gonzalez reference that you asked me
    22        not to go into again.  Do you remember, only before
    23        lunch?
    24
    25   MR JUSTICE BELL:  I remember you touching upon it, not quite in
    26        those terms.  Anyway, I hear what you say.  I have got the
    27        comment in mind.
    28
    29   MR. MORRIS:   It is day 69, page 38.  It is part of the whole
    30        discussion about why he said in his view that people that
    31        spoke to Peter Heller were -- his words -- lying, which
    32        you might think is a very serious allegation for him to
    33        make in the witness box under privilege, but he did that.
    34
    35   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   What he said was, the man was lying when he
    36        said that the beef had gone to McDonald's, if that is what
    37        he did say, but they were supplying it to McDonald's; did
    38        he not?
    39
    40   MR. MORRIS:   Yes.  It says, "Any salesperson will tell you if
    41        I am interested in buying this particular cloth will tell
    42        you that he is that particular piece of cloth" - suits, or
    43        whatever.  What he is saying.  Then he says the person was
    44        wrong, did not happen, wasn't what was alleged.  And then
    45        either he did not know it or he has lied.  Then later
    46        on-----
    47
    48   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Well, I will look at it.  I will look at it
    49        again.
    50
    51   MR. MORRIS:   Yes, if you could look at that section, that is
    52        the words he used, not mine.  So I was not alleging that 
    53        Dr. Gonzalez lied on that subject.  I do use the words
    54        sparingly when I believe it is true.  When I can prove it
    55        is true, in fact.  Sorry, they are relying on their
    56        suppliers.  We have heard about the Lord Vestey letter.
    57        I think Mr. Oakley relied on that letter on day 64, page
    58        25, line 38.  Dr. Gonzalez gave evidence about how he was
    59        checking up whether Co-op Montecillos had ever exported to
    60        McDonald's suppliers in the USA; he even said, this is

Prev Next Index