Day 286 - 24 Oct 96 - Page 29
1 are some maps by Mr. Cotter, who is one of the defendants'
2 Civil Evidence Act witnesses, again to the same effect but
3 from an even earlier date.
4
5 Those are the only maps that I know of. They are all to
6 the same effect. When I say Cotter, I mean C-o-t-t-e-r,
7 who also produced maps of Brazil.
8
9 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Well, make your points on them, and what it
10 occurs to me might be a good idea, as I write my judgment,
11 if there is any document or map I cannot find, having heard
12 what you and Miss Steel have to say, knowing that you have
13 got an opportunity at any stage to say "by the way, when we
14 referred to such and such a document or such and such a map
15 three or four weeks ago, it can be found at such and such a
16 place". If as I write my judgment I really cannot find
17 something which is important, Mr. Glenn will have to write
18 to all the parties and say "can you please just identify it
19 for me".
20
21 MR. RAMPTON: What I am going to do, where I cannot find what
22 the references are, as with these maps, I simply have them
23 in my giant rainforest file, is as I go through them I am
24 going to give copies to your Lordship.
25
26 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That might help as well. I would much rather
27 you kept on with it now and made your points on it and I am
28 sure I will track down everything.
29
30 MR. MORRIS: Right. In case there is any dispute about
31 McDonald's adopting the position of the advice of
32 Mr. Cesca's briefcase, then that map, as given to him, was
33 turned into an official map by McDonald's. And I don't
34 know if you remember, the same map and it had at the bottom
35 McDonald's 18472, and so they were adopting it in identical
36 terms with the rain or wet forest zones defined.
37
38 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Well, I have that. That is in the -----
39
40 MR. MORRIS: Is that the one you have? That is like that.
41
42 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. I think a point which is made against
43 you there is wet forest is not rainforest and there was
44 some evidence of which is rainforest and which was not.
45 You say, no, wet forest is to be treated as rainforest for
46 the purposes of the leaflet, that is what it means. I am
47 not inviting you to go through it again, but that is an
48 issue between you.
49
50 MR. MORRIS: Right. Well, I mean, under McDonald's definition
51 it seems to be that only inaccessible mountainous and
52 pre-montain cloud forests where nobody would put probably
53 cattle would be relevant, in which case where is the
54 rainforest they have admitted, the ex-rainforest land they
55 have admitted they have been using. And, secondly, their
56 policy is completely meaningless in terms of having any
57 policy of protection of what everybody else involved called
58 them rainforest.
59
60 Can I also point out that those maps will help to identify
