Day 011 - 12 Jul 94 - Page 64
1 that the one of the major uses of CFCs and HCFCs is in
refrigeration equipment. If the refrigeration equipment
2 could not be immediately adapted to use other
refrigeration -- would you actually like all the
3 refrigerators in London to be switched off while you
looked for an alternative source of something you can use
4 in standard refrigerators? Because that is actually the
main use of the HCFCs. It is not as a blowing agent.
5
MR. JUSTICE BELL: Are you an expert on whether it was
6 practical to move to something else?
A. No, I am not, my Lord, only in the sense that I know
7 that the reason that HCFCs were considered for
refrigerators is they have somewhat similar properties to
8 the existing CFCs and, therefore, could be used in
existing refrigeration without causing damage.
9
Q. I was not particularly thinking of refrigeration. What it
10 is suggested is it was irresponsible to use HCFCs as
blowing agents. I do not know, maybe in Mr. Morris's mind
11 the question of practicability is neither here nor there,
because you should just stop and that is the end of it.
12 But if other people in the world think that practicability
has to be given some weight, are you then an expert on
13 whether there were practicable alternatives?
A. No, my Lord.
14
MR. MORRIS: But as far as the food packaging industry is
15 concerned, you would not know if there were practical
alternatives?
16 A. No, my expertise is not in the technology -----
17 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I am not cutting your point off. I am just
wondering whether this is the witness to ask the question.
18
MR. MORRIS: No, it is just that you did say you felt that
19 McDonald's had moved as quickly as practicable to remove
their CFC usage. I am just trying to identify that is not
20 maybe the case?
A. No, I would say that given the documentation which
21 I read, as you could have read it, the conclusion I drew
from that is that within the limitations explained by the
22 technical engineers who actually wrote the assessment,
that in my view they had made a reasonable assessment of
23 the practicality of what they were doing.
24 I would, however, have to say that if you wished to
actually get an independent assessment of that, you would
25 actually have to call somebody who was an expert on the
use of blowing agents in the packaging industry, which
26 I am not.
27 Q. But, with the benefit of hindsight, in fact, the
environmentalists who were calling for a total ban have
28 turned out to be right -- they have foreseen this whole
situation, is that not correct?
29 A. I think what I would say is that all the people who
have been studying the problem which involves the
30 environmentalists had foreseen there was a problem, and
that if one reads the reports which have been alluded to
