Day 108 - 27 Mar 95 - Page 37


     
     1        systems which are so unnatural that debeaking becomes a
     2        sort of vital part of the system and, in my opinion, that
     3        is totally wrong.
     4
     5   Q.   The paper by Breward and Gentle, it should be -----
     6
     7   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, I have that.
     8
     9   MS. STEEL:  It should be in supplementary bundle V, I think, is
    10        it?
    11
    12   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I have it behind Mrs. Druce's statement
    13        again.  Is that where it was put in the witness bundles, do
    14        we know?  Do you mind getting down a pale blue volume,
    15        right down at the bottom left-hand corner with 1B on it.
    16        If you turn to tab 3, it is your statement, divider 3.
    17        Then if you go behind your statement the first thing after
    18        that maybe the article?
    19        A.  Oh, yes.
    20
    21   MS. STEEL:  Just say if there is any particular part you wanted
    22        to refer to.
    23
    24   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  They do not actually say that the abnormal
    25        neuroma growth causes pain in chickens; what he says is
    26        that the same things happening in humans are implicated in
    27        acute and chronic pain syndromes, does he not, or do they
    28        not?
    29        A.  Yes, there are other papers which cite observing for 52
    30        weeks, I think, and finding less preening behaviour,
    31        general more resting, you know, sitting around doing
    32        nothing, and a lot of scientists have come to the
    33        conclusion that this is associated with chronic pain of
    34        whatever level.  It may be very variable because another
    35        thing about debeaking is that a whole flock can be debeaked
    36        and some will look totally undebeaked and others may be
    37        really severely mutilated because the process is carried on
    38        extremely fast and extremely crudely.
    39
    40   MS. STEEL:  This may actually be my fault because, as you know,
    41        we got this paper when Mr. Gonzales was in the witness box
    42        and I forgot to chase it up again after he had left.
    43
    44   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  One matter I noticed on rereading which
    45        was not asked about previously is the damage by the cautery
    46        going back down the nerves, regardless of just how much of
    47        the beak is cut off, but there you are.  Yes, is there
    48        anything more you want Mrs. Druce to take from that paper?
    49        A.  He does conclude:  "From the work presented here it is
    50        clear that neuromas are formed as a result of the 
    51        amputation and that these neuromas probably give rise to 
    52        abnormal spontaneous nervous activity." 
    53
    54        We have based our dislike, apart from the obvious one of
    55        cutting off a chickens' beak, we have based it on studying
    56        particularly Michael Gentle's work, but it is obvious that
    57        the beak is a very sensitive -----
    58
    59   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  My point -- I am not necessarily detracting
    60        from your evidence -- what I am saying is I would like you

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