Day 181 - 01 Nov 95 - Page 19


     
     1        helps if that person can get himself represented by a trade
     2        union in such a situation; is that correct?
     3        A.  Only -- I do not know whether there is any case gone
     4        before an industrial tribunal in the last 10 years of
     5        someone who is not a trade union member actually
     6        effectively exercising the right.  In other words, what I
     7        am saying is this right attaches to actual membership, not
     8        desired membership, but actual membership.
     9
    10   Q.   Are you saying that the person does not have those rights
    11        at law unless he is a member of a trade union?
    12        A.  No, I am not.  I am not saying that.  What I am talking
    13        about is the actual exercising the rights, the practical
    14        experience, not the theory, what actually goes on in the
    15        workplace, which is why I am here.  I know how these
    16        systems work, and I know that if the person were not a
    17        trade union member, then their ability to exercise this
    18        right would be absolutely minimal.
    19
    20        Even with membership, my Lord, it is still very difficult
    21        to exercise this right.  You have to get to the court
    22        within five working days; you have to have substantial
    23        prima facie evidence of the dismissal linked to trade union
    24        membership and/or activity; you have to have an affidavit
    25        ready; you have to speak English in order to get access to
    26        some of these rights.  Many workers in this industry do not
    27        have a first language of English, so by the time you
    28        overcome the various hurdles, people in my position, as a
    29        trade union official in the 80s dealing with trade union
    30        development, were faced with the problem of:  How does this
    31        right get exercised?  That is all I am trying to do,
    32        putting a question mark over how the right is exercised.
    33
    34   Q.   Why did you say five days?
    35        A.  Five working days.
    36
    37   Q.   That is for interim relief; is that what you are saying?
    38        A.  It is interim relief, yes.
    39
    40   Q.   But a claim for compensation, the period of notice is three
    41        months, is it not?
    42        A.  The standard application is three months, yes.
    43
    44   Q.   That is for somebody who says he has been victimised at
    45        work on account of his trade union activity, is it not?
    46        A.  That is the other avenue, yes.  That is the possible
    47        avenue.
    48
    49   Q.   We have the position now where I can ask you some
    50        questions, you see, about Mr. McGee, who works at 
    51        McDonald's, he says, between November 1986 and July 1987. 
    52        You gave us an account yesterday of your contact with 
    53        Mr. McGee -- you will correct me if I am wrong; I am
    54        summarising because it was a long account, something like
    55        this -- Mr. McGee came to you in your office and said:
    56         "I want some help.  I would like to join the union, and
    57        I want to try to recruit in the store".  Yes?  You gave him
    58        some advice about how to do this and you gave him some
    59        literature; is that right so far?
    60        A.  So far.

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