Day 090 - 16 Feb 95 - Page 63


     
     1        A.  Yes, I have read this.
     2
     3   MR. MORRIS:  He said:  "Birds with a gait score of four or five
     4        should be culled".  In the sample of 102 birds examined on
     5        19th April 1993, there were no birds with a gait score of 4
     6        or 5.  I will just do it in percentages.  Seven per cent
     7        with a gait score of 3; 24 per cent with a gait score of 2;
     8        30 per cent with a gait score of 1 and 39 per cent with a
     9        gait score of nil, which he defines as "5, unable to walk"
    10        down to "nil, for a bird with perfect gait".  Obviously the
    11        ones that are unable to walk are being culled as you find
    12        them or they are lying on the ground unable to walk.  But
    13        would you accept his grading system between 0 and 5, that 0
    14        in that scale would be a perfectly healthy -----
    15
    16   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, I really do, if I may pick up what your
    17        Lordship said a moment ago, I know that Dr. Pattison has
    18        read Dr. Gregory's evidence, but your Lordship will
    19        remember -- I am not going to recite it because that would
    20        not be fair -- what Dr. Gregory said about the specific
    21        nature of each gait score, including, in particular, those
    22        from 3 to 0.
    23
    24   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  We have got 4 to 5 "unable to walk";
    25        what was 3?
    26
    27   MR. MORRIS:  He did not in his statement define 3.
    28
    29   MR. RAMPTON:  No, he did in his evidence.
    30
    31   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  He did in his evidence.  He went further, you
    32        see.
    33
    34   MR. MORRIS:  He defines 0 as a "perfect gait".  That is what he
    35        says in his statement, i.e. a perfectly healthy -----
    36
    37   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You have only to walk over Waterloo Bridge to
    38        see lots of perfectly healthy people with imperfect gaits.
    39        There was a bit more sophistication to it than that.  That
    40        is what troubles me.
    41
    42   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, in effect, it came to this, I think, that
    43        the interface, the critical interface, for welfare fell
    44        within gait score 3.
    45
    46   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You see, there was something more like that.
    47        What I suggest we do is why do we not break off now, but by
    48        the time we come back in the morning, and if someone can
    49        find the transcript reference, if this is thought to be an
    50        important point.  I may be wrong, but it was not my 
    51        recollection that his conclusion was that 61 per cent could 
    52        be said, as simply as it has been put, to suffer from leg 
    53        problems.  So, what I suggest, reflect on that and if you
    54        want to carry on the point in the morning, I think it would
    55        be right just to put what Dr. Gregory's description was.
    56
    57   MS. STEEL:  Could I just ask one question?
    58
    59   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.
    60

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