Day 035 - 12 Oct 94 - Page 59


     
     1        A.  Excuse me.  I think I may have spoken too quickly.
     2        Would you mind my referring to the Surgeon General's
     3        report again, that section on case-control studies because
     4        that comment there may be helpful?
     5
     6   Q.   Yes, please do.
     7        A.  Your saying "case-control" I found myself thinking
     8        cohort.
     9
    10   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Are you looking at a particular page?
    11        A.  I am looking at the Surgeon General's Report, pages
    12        196 and 197.  The comments I mentioned earlier where I was
    13        saying that overall it had not been supported I was
    14        thinking about cohort studies.  The comments I want to
    15        make regarding case-control studies were simply those
    16        comments that I made yesterday, where I think we went in
    17        some elaborate detail on those studies which did show a
    18        relationship between total fat and breast cancer.  Perhaps
    19        there is no need to repeat myself or to repeat what the
    20        Surgeon General's findings were.  But it is fair to say
    21        that Walter Willett has raised a minority view suggesting
    22        that he does not like the interpretation which the Surgeon
    23        General has, and I guess most others would agree with.
    24
    25   MR. RAMPTON:  Dr. Barnard, the position is this perhaps, and
    26        I am always open to correction by his Lordship when I say
    27        things like this, what we are trying to do in this court
    28        is to build a jigsaw and to see what is the overall
    29        conclusion which should be drawn when the jigsaw is
    30        completed.
    31
    32        If you are telling me that really we should put aside what
    33        Dr. Willett says on this topic, why, then, for your
    34        purposes there is no point my taking you through what he
    35        says, that it is not a suitable a piece of the jigsaw, and
    36        we can read it for ourselves and make up our minds in due
    37        course whether it is or whether it is not.  If every time
    38        that he says something you do not like, you are going to
    39        say, well, he is out on a limb or he is a minority view,
    40        then there is no point our going through it.  I do not
    41        mean that in any way offensively, but if that is your true
    42        position, please tell me now and can I put this study away
    43        and go on to something else?
    44        A.  Dr. Willett's view is a minority view, and if you wish
    45        to set it aside that would be fine by me.  If you think
    46        there is merit in going through it, I am happy to.  Most
    47        people, I do not think, agree with him.
    48
    49   Q.   No, because then all I am doing is making speeches.  If
    50        you are going to say that we should not pay attention to 
    51        what Dr. Willett says, then we will have to make up our 
    52        own minds whether you are right or wrong about that.  But 
    53        if you are not willing to accept his position, namely,
    54        that there is no satisfactory evidence upon which to base
    55        a proposition of causal relationship between breast
    56        cancer, colon cancer and diet, then I will pass on to
    57        something else.  Is that right?  Have I misstated your
    58        position?
    59        A.  Having read Dr. Willett's comments on breast cancer
    60        and the role of fat in it, I must say I share the

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