Day 032 - 06 Oct 94 - Page 80


     
     1        cancer, just in the context of this case.  You may say
     2        link has some other meaning apart from cause.
     3
     4   MS. STEEL:   We dispute the word "meal" as well.
     5
     6   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I know that.  Do not worry about that.
     7
     8   MR. MORRIS:  It seems to us, obviously it is crystal clear the
     9        discussions about diet and disease, firstly; secondly,
    10        that the two are linked, and that can be all possible
    11        kinds of links or any possible link.  I understand that if
    12        the Plaintiffs are upping or trying to up the burden of
    13        proof on the link to causal, that is one thing.  I think
    14        also they are trying to lower -- they are trying to lower
    15        the burden.
    16
    17   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do not go on any further.  Forget the word
    18        "meal".  I find it at the moment difficult to see the
    19        difference between saying, "This kind of diet is linked
    20        with cancer" and "This kind of diet causes cancer".  At
    21        the moment I find it difficult to see what the word "link"
    22        can mean, apart from in a causative sense.
    23
    24   MS. STEEL:   I would say that there is obviously quite clearly
    25        a difference, and that is exactly why the Plaintiffs want
    26        to change their statement of claim.
    27
    28   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  We will come to the argument about that.  I
    29        do not want to embark on the argument.  I am thinking
    30        aloud so that when you come to the argument you can meet
    31        it, but my main purpose at the moment is that you should
    32        not -- you should make the very best use of Dr. Barnard,
    33        and not -- I am not suggesting you would -- but I want you
    34        to be careful not to limit the scope of his evidence in
    35        any way because you are concerned about this application
    36        to amend.  You may very well find, when Dr. Barnard gets
    37        into the witness box, I do not know, that he will say,
    38        "I think this kind of diet does cause certain cancers".
    39        I do not want you to hold him back from saying that if
    40        that is his view.  Do you understand?
    41
    42   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.
    43
    44   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Because he is only going to be over here for
    45        a few days, then he will have gone back.  I do not want to
    46        invite argument, but is there anything you want to say,
    47        Mr. Rampton?
    48
    49   MR. RAMPTON:  No, my Lord, not at this stage.  I would only say
    50        this, and the Defendants should be aware of this in 
    51        advance of the argument.  There are two things I should 
    52        say.  One is, they should go back and look at the way in 
    53        which I opened this case; they should go even further back
    54        and see how the case was presented by me in the Court of
    55        Appeal before they start making any submission to your
    56        Lordship about being taken by surprise.
    57
    58        The other thing I would say, which perhaps is more
    59        important, just as a plaintiff has an obligation to state
    60        in precise terms what he alleges is the true meaning of

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