Day 241 - 26 Apr 96 - Page 29


     
     1        was very loosely used throughout the 70's and 80's and that
     2        is something that they can help on because they were
     3        involved in campaigns, but not only that, that I am just
     4        concerned that evidence about destruction of the dry
     5        forests or any other times of tropical forests should not
     6        be excluded from the trial at this stage, without having
     7        had the full argument on.
     8
     9   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I have not excluded any evidence about dry
    10        forest.  I have not said, for instance -- let me just try
    11        to help you with an example; just pause a moment, do not
    12        say anything more -- Mr. Ratter says in his statement:
    13         "Cerrado (tree-savannah) is the predominant natural
    14        vegetation of Central Brazil".  He then says how much area
    15        it covers.  "It is the second most extensive vegetation
    16        formation of Brazil, exceeded only by the Amazonian
    17        rainforest.  The cerrado region extends from the margin of
    18        Amazonian forest to outlying regions".  He then says:  "The
    19        cerrado region has enormous extensions of gallery forest
    20        including the drainage".
    21
    22        He says later:  "So much emphasis has been put on the
    23        emotive issue of the destruction of the rainforest that the
    24        world has largely forgotten the fate of their floristic
    25        cousins, the savannah woodlands".
    26
    27        Dr. Ratter may say different if you actually call him as
    28        opposed to reading his statement under the Civil Evidence
    29        Act, if he is still abroad.  But, on the face of that, it
    30        might be argued that to Dr. Ratter rainforest is one thing
    31        and cerrado woodland is another, even if it falls between
    32        the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn.
    33
    34        But I am not going to say you should not call Dr. Ratter to
    35        tell me about the cerrado forest; you can call him and read
    36        his statement and get him to approve it, or put it in and
    37        just say:  "Is that your statement?"  I am prepared to sort
    38        out later whether it helps me on an issue in the case.  I
    39        was not stopping you doing that.  Mr. Rampton from time to
    40        time has said it is not relevant and, for all I know, when
    41        I hear the argument I may agree with him, but I have not
    42        reached a decision on it.
    43
    44   MS. STEEL:   OK.  I do not know, I was just a bit concerned that
    45        there were, there seemed to be, or something, restrictions
    46        coming down, but if basically it is all open  .....
    47
    48   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The restriction was on a witness telling me
    49        what rainforest would mean to the ordinary reader, because
    50        my view at the moment is that is a decision I have to make 
    51        for myself -- rainforest in this leaflet, I mean, not what 
    52        it means when Mr. Monbiot is giving evidence, not what it 
    53        means to Mr. Secrett when he is giving evidence.  They gave
    54        me some evidence about that, but rainforest, what it
    55        actually means when it appears in the leaflet.
    56
    57   MS. STEEL:   I just think there is a bit of an ambiguity there
    58        because I would say that probably most people in this
    59        country had not heard of rainforests until the rainforest
    60        campaign started, and so their knowledge of what

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