Day 100 - 09 Mar 95 - Page 38


     
     1
     2   MS. STEEL:   I am not sure because I thought the witness was
     3        saying that there were controls in place to stop E.coli
     4        0157 before 1990.
     5
     6   MR. RAMPTON:  I think Ms. Steel has misunderstood the witness's
     7        evidence about what he calls quality assurance procedures.
     8        He said it yesterday and I think he said it already twice
     9        today.  I am not going to repeat it.
    10
    11   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No.
    12
    13   MR. RAMPTON:  They are not specific to any particular organism
    14        and he has never suggested that they were.
    15
    16   MS. STEEL (To the witness):  So there are no specific controls
    17         -- there were no control specific to E.coli 0157 H?
    18        A.  There were controls to prevent cross-contamination with
    19        gut contents which would include that organism.
    20
    21   Q.   That was tying the gut you are referring to, is it?
    22        A.  No, I think that is quite a recent procedure actually.
    23
    24   Q.   What procedure are you talking about then?
    25        A.  Well, obviously, you have the abattoirs and boning
    26        rooms that supply you audited very closely, and you are
    27        looking for good hygienic practices, so you are looking at
    28        construction of premises, you are looking for cleaning of
    29        implements that are used in the process to prevent
    30        cross-contamination, you are looking at good personal
    31        hygiene, you are looking for contaminated carcasses when
    32        you visit -- all of these things McKey have been doing
    33        since the start of their business with McDonald's.
    34
    35   Q.   But you cannot see E.coli 0157, can you -- I mean, you
    36        cannot see any bacteria?
    37        A.  You can see faecal contamination.
    38
    39   Q.   But that is not the only source of it?
    40        A.  Well, the organism lives in the gut so that is the
    41        source of contamination.
    42
    43   Q.   Were you ever told that McDonald's in the USA was testing
    44        for E.coli 0157 H at all?
    45        A.  I was not aware of the fact that they were testing for
    46        that organism before we were testing for it over here.
    47
    48   Q.   If they were testing for it, would that be something that
    49        you would expect to know?
    50        A.  No, not necessarily. 
    51 
    52   Q.   Why not? 
    53        A.  I do not know -- I do not get details of absolutely
    54        everything they do in the States with regard to their
    55        suppliers.  If they felt that it was of significant
    56        consequence that the rest of the McDonald's countries
    57        worldwide should be testing for it, then they would have
    58        sent out a message to ensure that we did do so.
    59
    60   Q.   You get messages and specifications to ensure that all the

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