Day 035 - 12 Oct 94 - Page 72


     
     1        because of modulations, so it is not quite as clear cut.
     2
     3   Q.   It is too late to go down the silk road at the moment, I
     4        think, Dr. Barnard.  What his Lordship was pointing out,
     5        was that one of the witness, at least, had said that small
     6        black lump at the bottom of that column represented those
     7        foods or elements in food which had been identified as
     8        being directly causative of cancer.
     9
    10   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Pretty cast-iron, if you see what I mean,
    11        the special cases?
    12        A.  I see.  I have not had the opportunity -----
    13
    14   Q.   You an probably put the two per cent of black aside, but
    15        I just wanted to explain to you what the evidence is which
    16        we have had on that.  We may well have more.
    17        A.  Thank you, yes.  I have not had the opportunity to
    18        look at that.
    19
    20   MR. RAMPTON:  I ask you finally to notice this about this chart
    21        in relation to your answers to his Lordship about smoking
    22        and lung cancer:  The black 30 per cent for tobacco and
    23        the grey 33 per cent for food, do you have any comment to
    24        make about that?
    25        A.  I think, in part, it does reflect the fact that there
    26        has been -- that the attention on tobacco was earlier and
    27        more aggressive.  However, given the fact that,
    28        I mentioned yesterday or the day before, in my testimony,
    29        I think that there is something other than a weight of
    30        evidence occurring here when we are speaking about public
    31        policy, because the evidence on tobacco and lung cancer,
    32        as compelling as I, indeed, believe it, has very serious
    33        holes in it particularly regarding animal research and
    34        regarding mechanisms.
    35
    36        However, perhaps in part due to the accumulation of
    37        evidence, in part due to the unpopularity of the tobacco
    38        industry, and due simply to the passage of time where
    39        people have been able to get used to the idea, it is
    40        something they once thought was innocuous is, in fact,
    41        dangerous.  People are quite confident in saying that
    42        tobacco is dangerous.  That process does seem to have
    43        begun in regards diet as well and much the same factors
    44        are occurring because people have to deal with their own
    45        diets, industries are involved that are asserting their
    46        concerns, and I think that, in part, what we are seeing on
    47        this graph is a reflection of the science of it, and some
    48        caution, I think, perhaps comes from other sources as
    49        well.
    50 
    51        What I am heartened by is that in both cases what is being 
    52        suggested here is that, in fact, there is a 
    53        cause-and-effect relationship, not conclusively for this
    54        bulk of diet, but that without cause-and-effect there
    55        could not be possibly be any hope of prevention.  So, in
    56        that sense that graph is optimistic and presents the
    57        opportunity of knowing what may, in fact, be responsible
    58        for some cases of cancer.
    59
    60   Q.   Dr. Barnard, I could not agree with you more.  I mean, if

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