Day 095 - 02 Mar 95 - Page 13


     
     1        the day.  As I said before, it is very easy to do and
     2        counsel do it often enough.  The time comes when you end up
     3        arguing with the witness and we are not moving.
     4
     5   MR. MORRIS:  It just that it was a sort of fundamental point
     6        I wanted to make clear that we are not accepting ------
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I will be able to consider your argument when
     9        I have heard all the evidence as to what goes on on the
    10        ground.
    11
    12   MS. STEEL:   I wanted to refer to the recommended animal
    13        handling guidelines for meat packers?
    14        A.  Can you direct me to it, please?
    15
    16   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes, my Lord.  I can give the reference to this,
    17        if it is what I think it is.  It was produced, I think it
    18        was, when Dr. Gomez was last here in December together with
    19        a number of other documents.  It was produced with a letter
    20        from Monfort.  My Lord, it is in volume IX, yellow IX,
    21        behind Dr. Gomez Gonzalez' first statement which is at
    22        tab 2 of that.
    23
    24   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is immediately in front of divider 3.
    25
    26   MR. RAMPTON:  It should be, yes, that is right.
    27
    28   THE WITNESS:  I do not have it.
    29
    30   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, I do not think it has been put in the
    31        volume.
    32
    33   MR. RAMPTON:  I think your Lordship has first in that package
    34        this HACCP document.
    35
    36   THE WITNESS:  I have it now.
    37
    38   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, but want to be further on, do you, to
    39        this document?
    40
    41   MS. STEEL:   That is right, yes.  (To the witness):  If you
    42        could turn to page 4 of that document.  That is the page
    43        number at the bottom of it rather than right at the top.
    44        A.  Yes.
    45
    46   Q.   Do you see the last paragraph "providing adequate pen
    47        space"?
    48        A.  On what -- yes, I do.
    49
    50   Q.   The second sentence, possibly the third, says:  "To reduce 
    51        PSE hogs issued be rested for two to four hours prior to 
    52        stunning", would you accept that? 
    53        A.  Yes, I do, it could be two to three hours, yes.
    54
    55   Q.   Would you accept that cattle and pigs become agitated and
    56        stressed when they are poked with electric prods or hit
    57        with a stick?
    58        A.  It is not a "yes" or "no" answer.  I do not know how to
    59        answer that question.  Do they feel it -- yes, they do.  Do
    60        they get agitated because of that -- no, I have never seen

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