Day 111 - 30 Mar 95 - Page 54


     
     1        then?
     2        A.  Since there has been no testing of the infection levels
     3        in the cattle, we could not even infer anything from that.
     4        No studies have been made of how many cattle are infected
     5        with this bacteria, so we could not make any assumptions at
     6        all.  But the working assumption, of course, for us always
     7        is that since most carcasses would be to a certain extent
     8        contaminated by environmental or faecal contamination,
     9        there is always a risk always exists.  That is why we are
    10        there; that is why we have meat inspectors there to deal
    11        with any visible faecal contamination.  That is why we have
    12        all the regulations about not washing carcasses before the
    13        inspection.  That is why we have regulations about chilling
    14        the carcasses and so on.  They are just precautions,
    15        because we always work from the assumption that there is a
    16        risk, the risk exists.
    17
    18   MS. STEEL:   This has partly been dealt with, but I am not sure
    19        that it has been dealt with entirely:  Do you think that
    20        the issuing of an EC licence can be used in the way that
    21        McKey's have as a sign of quality assurance?
    22        A.  I mean, that is a matter of opinion.
    23
    24   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The way you have put the question puts the
    25        witness in a very difficult situation, because she has not
    26        heard all the evidence about that.  Why not simply ask her
    27        to what extent at all the holding of an EC licence is a
    28        guarantee of a certain level of quality so far as hygiene
    29        is concerned, because that is what we are on at the
    30        moment?  (To the witness):  What is the answer to that?
    31        A.  Well, I would want to believe that that is so since the
    32        difference between the EC licensed abattoirs which are the
    33        oval stamp abattoirs and the abattoirs which at the moment
    34        are derogations and square health marks, they do not have,
    35        they are not obliged to have veterinary supervision
    36        throughout the function of the plant, whereas EC abattoirs
    37        have veterinary supervision.
    38
    39   Q.   They are the ones with the oval mark?
    40        A.  With the oval -- yes.  I would like to think that my
    41        profession provides a certain assurance.
    42
    43   MR. MORRIS:  But, in reality, does that happen?  You said you
    44        "would like to think", but what is reality?
    45        A.  Well, it is very difficult for me to see -- it would
    46        mean that I would have to spend more time at plants that
    47        are supervised by other people.  I would not want to
    48        comment anything on my colleagues in that sense.
    49
    50   MS. STEEL:  Can you just explain how the EC licensing is done 
    51        and monitored? 
    52        A.  The Ministry of Agriculture here in this country grants 
    53        the licences to plants for that.  The EC inspectors who
    54        come and visit this country at intervals, they visit the
    55        plants as well, but these visits are very rare.  They do
    56        not have very much resources.  The last time Jarretts, for
    57        example was visited by an EC inspector, I understand, was
    58        1990.  I am not quite sure of this.  This was hearsay
    59        again, this was told to me.
    60

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