Day 085 - 08 Feb 95 - Page 53


     
     1
     2   Q.   So since the increase following the Preston outbreak the
     3        cooking time for regular patties has not increased again
     4        since that initial increase?
     5        A.  Do you mind if I orientate myself with these various
     6        Quality Reference Guides?  No, the 10-1 time has not
     7        increased since, well, the 1991 one here when it was 40 to
     8        44, 1992 which was 40 to 44 and the difference now is that
     9        we have a range but we specify that the internal
    10        temperature of 70 degrees centigrade is of paramount
    11        importance.  If it takes you 40, 50 or whatever then that
    12        is the time you should use.
    13
    14   Q.   Whose idea was it to introduce that as the measure?
    15        A.  It was mine.
    16
    17   Q.   Your idea?
    18        A.  Yes, with a group of people we came to that.  I believe
    19        that was a -----
    20
    21   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I understand that it was decided that the 70
    22        degrees internal is paramount, but where does the manager
    23        go from there?  Does he decide if he is not getting that he
    24        should cook at a higher temperature or for so more seconds
    25        or what?  I do not understand what you are saying at the
    26        moment.
    27        A.  I believe the guidelines are in the daily product
    28        safety check list.  It instructs that when you check the
    29        grill, you can say it is at 40 degrees and the temperature
    30        is right, you do your check and maybe it is not at 70
    31        degrees centigrade, and you will adjust your time up in one
    32        second increments until the grill is cooking properly.
    33
    34   Q.   So has the timing gone altogether from the guidelines?
    35        A.  We have the guide, it will be between 40 and 44.  On
    36        occasions you may have to cook for a second longer.
    37
    38   Q.   So you say you have got 40 to 44, but there is some
    39        provision that if you are not getting 70 degrees ----
    40        A.  Yes.
    41
    42   Q.   --- at 40 to 44 or something to that effect, you should put
    43        your timing up?
    44        A.  That is right.  The reason behind this was in an
    45        attempt to get the manager focused on the cooked product,
    46        measuring the cooked product, rather than saying, well ----
    47
    48   Q.   Not just assume "I am getting so many seconds so I am
    49        getting the right temperature"?
    50        A.  That is right.  If you check the grill at the right 
    51        temperature and at the right time, then it will mean your 
    52        product is cooking correctly.  But why do that and have 
    53        that assumption?  Check that your product is cooking
    54        correctly and that you are achieving 70 degrees centigrade
    55        is a safer system we thought and we still think that.
    56
    57   Q.   When did that come in?
    58        A.  That is within the last two years again.
    59
    60   MS. STEEL:  So sometimes if the patty was left on the grill for

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