Day 073 - 13 Jan 95 - Page 26


     
     1        sustainability", is there some indication there?
     2        A.  I think the indication there is, in fact, that forestry
     3        as is practised in a vast amount Europe at the moment has
     4        not been fully sustainable.  He says countries -- I think
     5        he is inferring to countries outside the United Kingdom; he
     6        is referring to European countries.
     7
     8   Q.   That is Hector Munro -- he is what?
     9        A.  He was Minister of Agriculture at the time.
    10
    11   Q.   On page 7 of your statement you refer to McDonald's in
    12        2.11.5?
    13        A.  Right, yes.
    14
    15   Q.   I believe this is referring to -- is this America or is
    16        this just general -- no, it is general.
    17        A.  It is general background.
    18
    19   Q.   So, can you just explain what you mean at 2.11.5?
    20        A.  What I mean there is that the knowledge about the
    21        problems of the forest was available to the whole of the
    22        world, basically, to McDonald's in the past, and what I am
    23        saying is that, given that all paper will in some way
    24        impact the environment of the forest, McDonald's were in a
    25        position to actually make some hierarchal rating of where
    26        they took their paper from and attempt to take any paper
    27        they did take from the environment from the one that had
    28        the least effect on the environment and biodiversity.
    29
    30        I believe this is so because there are forest changes in
    31        the United States which have been run for strange reasons
    32        sometimes, which have protected biodiversity, such as the
    33        Menomenee forest, which belongs to the Menomenee tribal
    34        people.  It is about 400 square miles of forest, and
    35        I would say, in fact, material from the Menomenee forest is
    36        now being sold in England.  This is hard woods for
    37        flooring, but they also do soft woods there, and it is
    38        being sold as a premium in this country because it is being
    39        considered that, in fact, it has been produced in a
    40        seriously environmentally sensitive way, partly because of
    41        religious reasons that the people there have; but partly
    42        practically because the people in the Menomenee forest, who
    43        are a tribe of American Indians, had nowhere else to go.
    44
    45        So, unlike the rest of the timber industry they could not
    46        move on, so their management has been sustainable of all
    47        parts of the forest, particularly as they use part of the
    48        forest for religious purposes as well.
    49
    50   Q.   When you say in that paragraph, "and demand that suppliers 
    51        meet a specification that protects forest biodiversity", 
    52        does that refer not only to use specific forests that are 
    53        run well but also make some specifications?
    54        A.  I think they are specifying ----
    55
    56   Q.   For other sources?
    57        A.  I think they are specifying no old growth anyway. That
    58        would be a reasonable thing for them to specify.  They also
    59        should be looking, if they are doing their job properly as
    60        an environmentally concerned company, they should be going

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