Day 174 - 17 Oct 95 - Page 18


     
     1
     2   Q.   You had said in that letter: "It was explained to Mr. John
     3        Burke and the other members present that we already
     4        implemented the National Understanding in a manner in which
     5        we see as being fair", etcetera.  It is obvious that they
     6        would not have gone to the Labour Court following your
     7        meeting on 7th September, whenever it was, which you said
     8        was the last meeting, complaining that there was a refusal
     9        to apply the terms of the first phase of the National
    10        Understanding -- to quote from the letter of
    11        17th October -- and calling for a conciliation conference;
    12        it was clear they were not happy with the situation, were
    13        they?
    14
    15   MR. JUSTICE BELL: Where do you get that from?  I do not know
    16        whether they just did not know whether it had been
    17        implemented or thought it had not when it had.  Where does
    18        it go after October and November?
    19
    20   MR. MORRIS:  Well, the point is, in this correspondence, there
    21        is absolutely nothing in this correspondence to say about
    22        exactly what had been implemented and whether that had been
    23        communicated to the union, etcetera.
    24
    25   MS. STEEL:  Can I just say that in the letter of 17th October it
    26        does say, from the Labour Court, the first paragraph, it
    27        does say "concerning refusal to apply the terms of the
    28        first phase of the National Understanding", which does
    29        indicate that they did not think it had been implemented.
    30
    31   MR. JUSTICE BELL: But where does it go from there?  They may
    32        have been right or may have been wrong about that.
    33
    34   MR. MORRIS:  Exactly.  But they would have a right to meet up to
    35        represent their members.
    36
    37   MR. JUSTICE BELL: Why do you say that?
    38
    39   MR. MORRIS:  Because they had members in the store.
    40
    41   MR. JUSTICE BELL: Just listen to me for a moment.  Meetings take
    42        time; people have to travel to them.  Some people might go
    43        to a meeting; some might write a letter saying, in effect,
    44        "We have done what we have to", and then expect a letter
    45        coming back saying, "You have not done this, that or the
    46        other"; then there may be more correspondence or there may
    47        be a meeting.  What I want to know is how it all ended.
    48
    49   MR. MORRIS:  I am trying to say what is obvious to me and ask
    50        the witness to verify it, that the union was not happy with 
    51        the situation, and to go to the Labour Court to request a 
    52        conciliation conference was only because you were refusing 
    53        to meet the union, were you not?
    54
    55   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, may I intervene?
    56
    57   MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes.
    58
    59   MR. RAMPTON:  Might I suggest that this could be short cut if
    60        Mr. Morris or your Lordship were to ask the witness

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