Day 089 - 15 Feb 95 - Page 67


     
     1        at some stage during the process, comes into contact with a
     2        piece of meat which is not contaminated, then the
     3        contaminated piece may contaminate the uncontaminated
     4        piece, is that correct?
     5        A.  Yes.
     6
     7   Q.   If no significant proliferation has taken place along the
     8        way, what does 25 per cent in the samples of the finished
     9        product represent by way of increased risk to human beings?
    10        A.  The risk to human beings could only be if that meat
    11        obviously was not cooked properly.  What we do not know is
    12        the number of organisms that are present.  So, although we
    13        are saying the sample is positive, it is likely that the
    14        dose is well below an infectious dose.
    15
    16   Q.   Is it, therefore, at any rate if there has been no
    17        proliferation, at least a possibility if not a probability
    18        that this process where the meat is mixed, that process
    19        cross-contamination, in effect, constitutes a dilution?
    20        A.  It probably does, yes.
    21
    22   Q.   Are there are certain groups of humans who are especially
    23        vulnerable to food poisoning by salmonella?
    24        A.  Yes, there are: the very young, the very old or the
    25        immunocompromised are susceptible, particularly to
    26        infection.
    27
    28   Q.   Is it known what level of dosage is needed to make those
    29        vulnerable groups ill?
    30        A.  The dosage can be very low. A very low number of
    31        organisms can cause food poisoning.
    32
    33   Q.   Is it known what for the average reasonably healthy adult
    34        is the critical dosage or roughly speaking?
    35        A.  I am sure it is, but I am not really qualified to
    36        comment on that.
    37
    38   Q.   Do you think there is a way in which you could -- say you
    39        have got your salmonella, I will ask you what it means in a
    40        moment, but you have got your salmonella down to 1 per cent
    41        of live birds, that is to say one bird in 100, do you think
    42        there are any ways in which you can achieve, what shall
    43        I say, even a 25 per cent, less than a 25 per cent
    44        cross-contamination in the plant?
    45        A.  Oh, yes.  I am very hopeful that this level will come
    46        down.
    47
    48   Q.   How will that be achieved do you think?
    49        A.  It will be achieved by improving plant hygiene.  We are
    50        making improvements to the evisceration equipment, to the 
    51        chilling equipment, the washing equipment.  The whole 
    52        process is being automated to reduce the amount of handling 
    53        and this will make a big difference.
    54
    55   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is not 25 per cent cross-contamination, is
    56        it?
    57
    58   MR. RAMPTON:  That was a shorthand.  It was clumsy.
    59
    60   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I appreciate that but I would like to try to

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