Day 108 - 27 Mar 95 - Page 37
1 systems which are so unnatural that debeaking becomes a
2 sort of vital part of the system and, in my opinion, that
3 is totally wrong.
4
5 Q. The paper by Breward and Gentle, it should be -----
6
7 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, I have that.
8
9 MS. STEEL: It should be in supplementary bundle V, I think, is
10 it?
11
12 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I have it behind Mrs. Druce's statement
13 again. Is that where it was put in the witness bundles, do
14 we know? Do you mind getting down a pale blue volume,
15 right down at the bottom left-hand corner with 1B on it.
16 If you turn to tab 3, it is your statement, divider 3.
17 Then if you go behind your statement the first thing after
18 that maybe the article?
19 A. Oh, yes.
20
21 MS. STEEL: Just say if there is any particular part you wanted
22 to refer to.
23
24 MR. JUSTICE BELL: They do not actually say that the abnormal
25 neuroma growth causes pain in chickens; what he says is
26 that the same things happening in humans are implicated in
27 acute and chronic pain syndromes, does he not, or do they
28 not?
29 A. Yes, there are other papers which cite observing for 52
30 weeks, I think, and finding less preening behaviour,
31 general more resting, you know, sitting around doing
32 nothing, and a lot of scientists have come to the
33 conclusion that this is associated with chronic pain of
34 whatever level. It may be very variable because another
35 thing about debeaking is that a whole flock can be debeaked
36 and some will look totally undebeaked and others may be
37 really severely mutilated because the process is carried on
38 extremely fast and extremely crudely.
39
40 MS. STEEL: This may actually be my fault because, as you know,
41 we got this paper when Mr. Gonzales was in the witness box
42 and I forgot to chase it up again after he had left.
43
44 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. One matter I noticed on rereading which
45 was not asked about previously is the damage by the cautery
46 going back down the nerves, regardless of just how much of
47 the beak is cut off, but there you are. Yes, is there
48 anything more you want Mrs. Druce to take from that paper?
49 A. He does conclude: "From the work presented here it is
50 clear that neuromas are formed as a result of the
51 amputation and that these neuromas probably give rise to
52 abnormal spontaneous nervous activity."
53
54 We have based our dislike, apart from the obvious one of
55 cutting off a chickens' beak, we have based it on studying
56 particularly Michael Gentle's work, but it is obvious that
57 the beak is a very sensitive -----
58
59 MR. JUSTICE BELL: My point -- I am not necessarily detracting
60 from your evidence -- what I am saying is I would like you
