Day 087 - 10 Feb 95 - Page 32


     
     1        counsel on one side, I have litigants in person on the
     2        other.  You have done jolly well on some aspects, but I do
     3        not know what you might argue.  This is in no way a
     4        suggestion that Mr. Rampton is in any way not bringing
     5        forward matters which might help me and I am quite sure he
     6        is not, but the fact is I do not have a lawyer on your side
     7        who might think of something from your point of view which
     8        you had not thought of yourself.
     9
    10        There are two members of the Bar whom I know (one of them
    11        quite well) have appeared in court and, therefore, I have
    12        recognised them and you have had what I assume to be pupils
    13        from time to time.  Are you prepared to tell me whether you
    14        have got some kind of legal assistance and, if so, how long
    15        it takes you to get it, not just generally but on a point
    16        like this?
    17
    18   MR. MORRIS:  We get advice from time to time.  That is basically
    19        it really because the case is so complex that even an
    20        experienced person like -- when Patrick Milmo did our Court
    21        of Appeal thing, it took us three weeks just to brief him.
    22        Effectively, it did not save us time although, of course,
    23        he added weight to our application and expertise.  But
    24        often it takes us so long just to explain to somebody what
    25        the situation is.  A lot of the pattern has already been
    26        set in the case.  We had to do it ourselves.
    27        Fundamentally, we have to do it ourselves.
    28
    29   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You have transcripts.  The point I am
    30        concerned about, which is in relation, first of all, to the
    31        Preston report and, secondly, the American report, and the
    32        argument you have put forward in relation to whether they
    33        are scientific papers is all on bits of transcripts which
    34        you can isolate.
    35
    36   MR. MORRIS:  But whether we replead and how much we replead,
    37        because, effectively, it was quite clear to us that the
    38        Plaintiffs made a full admission of responsibility.  That
    39        Preston pleading was in the section under Justification of
    40        our allegation of our pleading, that meat, particularly
    41        minced meat, or whatever, is responsible for the majority
    42        of food poisoning incidents.  So, they have admitted
    43        responsibility and then we are faced with this area of
    44        doubt which we do not know exactly what the doubt is.  So,
    45        we want to test that doubt by referring to the actual -----
    46
    47   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What is the area of doubt?
    48
    49   MR. MORRIS:  I do not know because to me the Preston report
    50        clearly identifies what the problem was, to all intents and 
    51        purposes, which the Plaintiffs have admitted responsibility 
    52        for.  The question is what exactly are the Plaintiffs 
    53        prepared to admit or not admit, we do not know, so I do not
    54        want to -----
    55
    56   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  We have gone around in a circle again.  That
    57        is why it is so important for you to isolate what apart
    58        from -- if you think the allegation you have made in
    59        relation to Preston in your pleading is too bare to serve
    60        your purpose, what is it you want to add to it?

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