Day 202 - 11 Jan 96 - Page 39


     
     1
     2   MS. STEEL:   I just want to ask about -- in your statement you
     3        talk about -- well, actually, if you could turn to your
     4        statement and turn to page 5, please, paragraph 12?
     5        A.  Can someone tell me what tab it is under, please,
     6        sorry?
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, I have got mine loose, I am afraid.
     9
    10   MR. RAMPTON:  It is 34D of XB.
    11
    12   THE WITNESS:  Whereabouts in the statement do you want me to
    13        look at?
    14
    15   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Page 5.
    16
    17   MS. STEEL:   Paragraph 12, please.
    18        A.  OK, thank you.  Right.
    19
    20   Q.   Where you are talking about the payroll irregularities and
    21        Sally Spurgeon seemed to be implicated.  Can you just
    22        clarify something?  On page 6, in the same paragraph, you
    23        say -- you have said that Neil was trying to find out who
    24        was involved and then you say, "Ray Coton was trying to
    25        blame Sally Spurgeon".  Then in the next sentence you say,
    26        "I remember that he discussed the issue with me".  Is that
    27        Ray Coton or Neil Skehel?
    28        A.  I would think that it was Neil Skehel, if I could just
    29        read it through to make sure.
    30
    31   Q.   Right.
    32        A.  Yes, it was Neil.
    33
    34   Q.   Right, and is this -- this conversation that you were
    35        talking about, is that about that one specific incident
    36        where there were several all in one go all in one night
    37        that had been altered?
    38        A.  Yes, yes.
    39
    40   Q.   Did you actually ever discuss about this with Sally
    41        Spurgeon herself, or was this all what you had been told by
    42        Neil Skehel?
    43        A.  No, I would not have discussed it with Sally.  In
    44        matters like this, it is important that the Senior
    45        Supervisor stays at a distance because if there is any
    46        appeal on anything like this, you know, it may well come to
    47        me to do so, to listen to that appeal.
    48
    49   Q.   Right.
    50        A.  But if I do get involved, then obviously the appeal 
    51        will go to my boss. 
    52 
    53   Q.   So it was Neil Skehel that was saying to you that you
    54        thought her role was probably subordinate?
    55        A.  No.  I think Neil would have come along with what
    56        evidence he had and would have discussed his thoughts and
    57        we would have looked at it.  That is my recollection of, at
    58        that point in time, what our thoughts and conclusions were.
    59
    60   Q.   But you were relying entirely on what he was telling you?

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