Day 130 - 26 May 95 - Page 78


     
     1        exceptions (which I will specify below) this leaflet
     2        describes the training programme which was in operation in
     3        late 1989 and early 1990".
     4
     5        Mrs. Barnes, two other things very briefly:  You remember
     6        the HSE recommendations?
     7        A.  Yes.
     8
     9   Q.   You remember Mr. Morris suggesting to you that:  "Oh,
    10        McDonald's only ever does anything for the benefit of its
    11        employees' welfare under pressure"?
    12        A.  I do, yes.
    13
    14   Q.   You do remember that.  I remember how you dealt with it so
    15        I will not ask you to deal with that suggestion, obviously.
    16          What I want to ask you is this:  Was there any sense, and
    17        I am not talking now about threats of legal action because
    18        plainly -- can I ask you this first, it is obvious:  There
    19        was no legal force in the recommendations of that report,
    20        was there?
    21        A.  No, there were not at all.
    22
    23   Q.   What measures, if any, could the HSE or any other arm of
    24        government have taken against you if on seeing those
    25        recommendations you had said:  "Well, I am sorry that is
    26        going to cost too much money; it takes too much time.
    27        Forget it, we are not going to do it"?
    28        A.  I do not believe they could have taken any legal action
    29        at all.
    30
    31   Q.   That is not what I am asking.  What I am wondering is
    32        whether there was any indirect pressure on you to adopt
    33        those recommendations?
    34        A.  There was no -- in fact, in discussion with Andrew
    35        Foster, I know that his thinking was that, really, to
    36        comply with the recommendations that he had made, he was
    37        looking for something like a five-year plan from us and,
    38        obviously, we put together a three year plan that we
    39        implemented within 18 months, so we certainly went a lot
    40        further than he had been expecting.
    41
    42   Q.   I mean there may be more one reason, why did you do it as
    43        quickly as that, exceeding both his expectation and your
    44        original prediction?
    45        A.  Well, first of all, we believed that what he had
    46        recommended and the document that it was based on,
    47        Successful Health and Safety Management, was the way of
    48        reducing accidents in our restaurants and further reducing
    49        the risk to our employees.  So, we just believed it was the
    50        right way to go in.  So, in doing that we wanted to 
    51        implement it as quickly as we practically could. 
    52 
    53   Q.   Were you afraid that somebody would lean on you if you did
    54        not do it all, as it were, as soon as you had thought of
    55        it?
    56        A.  Well, no.  As I say, I know from speaking to Andrew he
    57        was looking at a lot longer time-scale than we said we
    58        would meet.
    59
    60   Q.   One final thing, Mrs. Barnes, I do not know because I have

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