Day 181 - 01 Nov 95 - Page 53


     
     1        You have heard the Company's argument about their
     2        interpretation of the overtime payment regulations.  Sorry,
     3        I am just trying to think of -----
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL: I hope that someone will correct me if I am
     6        wrong.  You are quite right that it is their argument, but
     7        there was also evidence as to some communication, and
     8        I remember you cross-examining as to whether there was any
     9        letter to that effect.  But, in fact, the wages
    10        inspectorate were told that McDonald's would not pay
    11        overtime rate, and the wages inspectorate indicated that
    12        that would not, as far as they were concerned, involve a
    13        breach, provided the wages at the end of the week were
    14        above what the minimum would be, following the Wages
    15        Council minimum.
    16
    17        So you are quite right that McDonald's argue that that is a
    18        right construction, but there was the extra factor that
    19        they say there was communication with the inspectorate
    20        about it, and that was the outcome of it.
    21
    22   MR. MORRIS:  I do not know if we had any evidence of that.
    23
    24   MR. JUSTICE BELL: We did.
    25
    26   MR. RAMPTON:  I will tell your Lordship the date, for reference.
    27        It is 1st May, 1995.  It is the evidence of Mr. Nicholson
    28        in cross-examination, as your Lordship correctly
    29        recollects, at pages 10 to 11, and 13 to 14.
    30
    31   MR. JUSTICE BELL: You may urge me at the end of the day not to
    32        accept Mr. Nicholson's evidence on it, but all I am
    33        pointing out is that we have had some evidence to that
    34        effect.
    35
    36   MS. STEEL:   Yes.  We have had hearsay evidence, yes.
    37
    38        (To the witness): Are you aware of this argument having
    39        cropped up in previous investigations or cases?
    40        A.  Yes.
    41
    42   Q.   What position was taken then?
    43        A.  Well, you know, if I was slightly better prepared,
    44        I could have brought to this court the annual prosecution
    45        figures under the various provisions of the Wages Council
    46        regulations to demonstrate the number of cases that were
    47        taken for failing to keep records, failing to display
    48        notices, failing to pay statutory minimum rates.  Those
    49        were the three primary offences that were monitored.
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL: I do not think that is quite what Ms. Steel is 
    52        asking you about.  She is asking you whether you are aware 
    53        that employers other than McDonald's have argued that,
    54        provided the gross wage at the end of the week comes out at
    55        above the minimum, strictly following the Wages Council
    56        orders, it does not matter whether time and a half has been
    57        paid ---
    58        A.  Yes.
    59
    60   Q.   -- for instance.  Do you understand?

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