Day 302 - 18 Nov 96 - Page 24


     
     1   MR JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause a moment.  (Pause) Yes.
     2
     3   MR. MORRIS:   This should particularly apply to vulnerable
     4        sections of the workforce.  For example, young people, low
     5        paid people, people with no unions, union protection,
     6        people who do not get overtime payments.  I mean,
     7        obviously, if you do work overtime you should be paid.
     8
     9   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I understand, you need not...
    10
    11   MR. MORRIS:   So it is even more important.
    12
    13   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  They get higher rate.
    14
    15   MR. MORRIS:   People who do not have -- people whose hours --
    16        because management have the right to extend hours, because
    17        there is no guaranteed hours at McDonald's and the
    18        management have the right to extend hours, then McDonald's
    19        staff are in a particularly vulnerable situation.
    20
    21   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I did not actually know anything about how
    22        they came to work for 96 hours, did I?  I mean, I did with
    23        one or two specific witnesses, but not the ones who just
    24        come up on the computer printout.
    25
    26   MR. MORRIS:   No, we have heard evidence of people working long
    27        hours in, for example, Colchester stores.
    28
    29   MR JUSTICE BELL:  I am not talking about those, they may not be
    30        anonymous because there is a name there, but I have no face
    31        fit to them and do not know anything about them.
    32
    33   MR. MORRIS:   Right.  We also heard, for example, Mr. Preston
    34        said the whole purpose of that was to prevent it happening
    35        again, and then we showed that one store had done the same
    36        thing, I think it was either four fortnights in a row or
    37        four fortnights within six or seven.
    38
    39   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   It appears that the only -- if one could
    40        search for logical reasons for having a policy not to work
    41        over 39 hours, that it started with having to pay overtime
    42        if one worked more than that, or 40 hours in the United
    43        States, and the company did not want to do that, because it
    44        would cost them more money, then although no-one in the
    45        witness box was prepared to rationalise it over here, there
    46        may be someone somewhere who thinks essentially it is not
    47        terribly fair to work over 39 hours without paying
    48        overtime, if you are not going to do that you had better
    49        try to stick to 39 hours.
    50
    51   MR. MORRIS:   Also, of course, that policy may satisfy the wages
    52        inspectorate.  They think -----
    53
    54   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You obviously run into a risk, even on your
    55        own construction of what the rules and regulations mean,
    56        that as at the moment -- we have not heard it from,
    57        Mr. Rampton if he wants to say anything more about it --
    58        Mr. Alimi did, on the face of it got paid, if there was
    59        still a minimum wage then, I cannot remember, I think there
    60        was, was there not?

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