Day 020 - 28 Jul 94 - Page 23


     
     1        A.  There are two causes which were indicated previously;
              one is you have an undersized bird, in which case simple
     2        adjustment of the water bath is a thing they can do to
              eliminate the problem.  The other potential cause is that
     3        as the birds are being conveyed over the line, a bird may
              pull itself up while flapping its wings and not touch the
     4        water.  That is a cause as well.  In that situation it is
              quite difficult to do anything about it practically.
     5
         Q.   You could do that by putting in the ramps you referred to?
     6        A.  The breast works in the comforter ----
 
     7   Q.   No, the ramp?
              A.  No, not necessarily.  What the bird is doing, its legs
     8        are in the shackle, it pulls up with its body while it is
              flapping. The ramp, all it is doing is making contact with
     9        the head of the body if the head is extended.
 
    10   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It would not hit the ramp?
              A.  Correct.  It would go over the water without touching
    11        it.  It is doing a pull up like on a gymnasium bar.  There
              have been systems to try and reduce that problem.  Some of
    12        them I would not recommend.  One was, for instance, to
              have electrodes that are either side of the bath which
    13        delivers an electric shock to the bird which make it
              extend, but that in itself is not a very pleasant way of
    14        trying to rectify the problem.
 
    15   Q.   That is almost the equivalent of prestunning?
              A.  Exactly.  That has been used, but this plant did not
    16        use that.
 
    17   MS. STEEL:   If birds were lifting their head, would that be
              because they were trying to avoid being ----?
    18        A.  It is difficult to generalise; it could be a number of
              factors, causing disturbance which make them pull up and
    19        flap.
 
    20   Q.   Trying to escape?
              A.  That is one possibility, yes, certainly.
    21
         Q.   Just one final matter on current then I am going on.  What
    22        would be your view on stunning at 12.5 milliamps?
              A.  12.5 milliamps?
    23
         Q.   Yes.
    24        A.  Using a 50 herz sinosoidal AC should not be allowed
              commercially.
    25
         Q.   What about in any other type of frequency? 
    26        A.  It is highly unlikely that is going to stun unless you 
              put the electrodes -- hold on, let me think -- it is 
    27        highly unlikely under any circumstances that is going to
              stun, 12.5 milliamps, instantaneously at least; you would
    28        have to apply it for such a long time that the animal
              expires for another reason.
    29
         Q.   So it would not be something you consider humane?
    30        A.  Certainly not.
 

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