Day 089 - 15 Feb 95 - Page 55


     
     1   Q.   Yes, I see.  Do you mean they get separate houses?
     2        A.  They are kept in separate, sometimes in separate
     3        houses, otherwise in separate sections of a house.
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Can you explain to me where that takes us on
     6        our 42 and 52 day theory?
     7
     8   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, I certainly cannot; I do not know whether
     9        Dr. Pattison can.
    10
    11   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I visual this picture of some birds being
    12        taken from the same area of a house before others because
    13        they are female?
    14        A.  Yes.
    15
    16   Q.   Is what you are saying mostly now they are in areas by sex?
    17        A.  That is correct.  The normal practice in a poultry
    18        house is to have a partition down the middle of the house
    19        with the males on one side and the females on the other, so
    20        that at 42 days you go in and you collect up the females
    21        and then you give the males the whole run of the house.
    22
    23   Q.   You lift up the partition?
    24        A.  You lift up the partition and they get the run of the
    25        whole house.
    26
    27   Q.   I see.  In fact, I am not sure Dr. Gregory, now it has been
    28        mentioned, did not say something to that effect.
    29
    30   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes.  (To the witness):  This change was part of a
    31        general change of the system.  The actual change in
    32        provision of two kinds of shackles, was that in any sense
    33        prompted by Dr. Gregory or anybody else?
    34        A.  No.  This was our own decision within the company and
    35        had been made long before the time of his visit.
    36
    37   Q.   Was the method of stunning changed at the same time?
    38        A.  The equipment was changed.  I would not say the method
    39        changed dramatically, but the equipment was changed.  We
    40        bought updated machinery, more modern machinery, and that
    41        was just part of the upgrading of the plant.
    42
    43   Q.   I think Dr. Gregory told us that when he came there in
    44        February 1993 it was actually being installed?
    45        A.  That is correct.
    46
    47   Q.   So how long in advance would it have had to have been
    48        ordered?
    49        A.  I am not really sure but the equipment is American and
    50        normally with American equipment you order it several 
    51        months in advance. 
    52 
    53   Q.   Can you just give me some more times and then I will go
    54        back to stunning, if I may.  What, in your experience, is
    55        the average time or the approximate time between the stun
    56        bath and the automatic or the manual cut?
    57        A.  This is a very short time, probably of the order of
    58        about five seconds.
    59
    60   Q.   Between the cutting operation, whether it be automatic or

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