Day 106 - 23 Mar 95 - Page 52
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2 Q. I see that, but that only means the number of samples to be
3 taken?
4 A. That is right. That is the core of your sampling plan,
5 the number of samples you take and also the way you take
6 them.
7
8 Q. Where do I see the way you take them?
9 A. Well, there is elsewhere, and I do not think it will be
10 in -----
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12 Q. I can see on table 19 it has test APC, no doubt if anyone
13 bothered to ask you you could explain to me what that was,
14 and I can see method reference 118. I do not, do I, maybe
15 I do but I have missed it, see any reference to the test or
16 method reference on page 38 in tab 3?
17 A. At the moment, my Lord, we have not got as far as
18 actually doing the test; we are talking about the sampling
19 plan. This essentially sets out the bones of the sampling
20 plan. One assumes that those -- well I have my own -----
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22 Q. Do you know what APC and 118 means on page 91? Page 90,
23 aerobic plate counts is APC.
24 A. Yes.
25
26 Q. What is the 118?
27 A. That presumably is a reference elsewhere in the book to
28 the precise methodology in determining the -----
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30 Q. Yes, that is what I had assumed.
31 A. Which of course we do not have.
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33 Q. But we have no equivalent, for instance, just to take an
34 example, next to E.coli on page 38, do we?
35 A. The first aerobic mesophile bacteria is essentially the
36 APC, so that is to which it relates.
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38 Q. I see that.
39 A. The others are looking at specifics, one is E.coli. It
40 does not say it is 0157; I assume it is not 0157 but E.coli
41 in general because I understand from elsewhere the criteria
42 for 0157 is nil, hence since N is 500, one assumes it means
43 E.coli in general. Then specific pathogens, clostridium
44 perfringens, staphylococci and salmonella. Now what I was
45 saying is that N for a sampling plan for determining the
46 presence of predicted levels of salmonella particularly,
47 and certainly E.coli 0157, is by no means adequate. The
48 basis of the sampling programme for specific pathogens has
49 been set out and is widely known within the industry and is
50 used routinely by the Ministry of Agriculture Fisheries and
51 Food. The numbers of samples relate to your expectations
52 of the level of infection.
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54 The working criteria, the criteria I have worked with many
55 times, are basically worked on salmonella to a probability,
56 a 95 per cent probability of finding salmonella, i.e. a one
57 in 20 chance of missing it, where the infection level in
58 the population is 5 per cent or more. Now where the
59 population ----
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