Day 093 - 28 Feb 95 - Page 18


     
     1        level of expertise.  As I said it before, in my opinion,
     2        they are the best in the world.
     3
     4   Q.   Yes, but why did they debeak their chickens before this
     5        nutritional improvement that you have talked about?
     6        A.  Because they probably thought there was a -- I cannot
     7        answer for them.  But, from my experience, there are some
     8        practices that sometimes do not have the science behind
     9        it.  Once they study it, they decided -- they did not have
    10        problems with cannibalism to the extent that that affected
    11        the flocks, so that they probably stayed with it because it
    12        was a practice in the industry many years ago.
    13
    14   Q.   So there were some problems with cannibalism, it was just
    15        limited?
    16        A.  Very limit limbed, yes, it could have been, I do not
    17        know.  My experience with Tyson was the last four years.
    18
    19   Q.   So they could have carried on doing this for years without
    20        any need for it?
    21        A.  What?
    22
    23   Q.   Debeaking?
    24        A.  They could have, yes.
    25
    26   Q.   But they did not bother to investigate ---
    27        A.  I do not know.
    28
    29   Q.   -- 10 or 15 years ago?
    30        A.  I do not think.
    31
    32   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  This all started with him saying he did not
    33        know and then speculating about it.  Once he speculates, of
    34        course, you are entitled to question him further, but I am
    35        much more interested in what actually happened rather than
    36        what people think may happen.  (To the witness):  The
    37        1/64th of an inch, have you fixed on that as a precise
    38        measurement or just because it is your stab looking back at
    39        what the amount cut off is?
    40        A.  Yes, that is the -- when I asked Tyson, I said:  "What
    41        is it, tell me the measurement?"  He said:  "1/64th is the
    42        normal practice".  That was the measure.
    43
    44   Q.   But have you actually seen it being done itself?
    45        A.  Yes, I have.  It is just the tip, is just the tip.
    46
    47   MS. STEEL:   Would you agree that a hen's nesting desire is so
    48        strong that she will go without food and water to be
    49        allowed to use the nest when she is ready to lay?
    50        A.  That is a strong statement.  I do not know. 
    51 
    52   Q.   You do not know. 
    53        A.  I do not know how to you measure, what you mean by a
    54        "strong desire"?  The chickens that I have seen, they eat
    55        regular.
    56
    57   Q.   Would you accept that hens in battery cages pace up and
    58        down the cage for a couple of hours prior to laying the
    59        egg?
    60        A.  They can do that at any time, from what I have seen.

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