Day 032 - 06 Oct 94 - Page 62


     
     1        Department of Health's document of 1994?
     2        A.  There may be very little difference.  I would argue
     3        that a lot of manufacturers put out healthy eating
     4        guidelines in their own versions in order to discharge
     5        what they see as their responsibility.  I do not see that
     6        as sufficient discharging of their responsibility.
     7
     8   Q.   What, in your view, must a company like McDonald's do?
     9        Should they put a health warning on their shop fronts?
    10        A.  I think they are beginning to take steps towards
    11        greater responsibility by their reformulation of foods.
    12        That is beginning to acknowledge that they actually do
    13        control what people are eating in that sense.  I also
    14        think they could yet take greater responsibility in the
    15        means by which they promote food, the sorts of foods
    16        available on their menu; the promotion of those foods, the
    17        pricing of those foods, and so forth.  Various experiments
    18        may have been tried but they have not perhaps all been
    19        successful, for example, low fat burgers, salad bars as in
    20        Italy, but I would like to see the encouragement of those
    21        sorts of activities by the manufacturer.
    22
    23   Q.   You are conscious that McDonald's have been doing that
    24        over a period of time, perhaps not as fast as you would
    25        like, but it is so, is it not?
    26        A.  I would say it is only in the late 80s and perhaps now
    27        in the 90s that they are making these efforts.  I think it
    28        was legitimate in the mid-80s (that is why I wrote the
    29        book) to try to encourage them to do that under consumer
    30        pressure.
    31
    32   Q.   What I was going to ask you was this:  Your postulation
    33        was that they had only done what they did because of
    34        people like you, activists', pressure groups, people
    35        prodding them to do it, otherwise they would not have done
    36        it?
    37        A.  It is very difficult to see cause and effect, but I
    38        would argue that a similar case occurred in America where
    39        the publication by an independent group of the ingredients
    40        of McDonald's foods led to the pamphlet issued by
    41        McDonald's in America which, in turn, led to us publishing
    42        a book about the ingredients of McDonald's foods which in
    43        turn led to McDonald's releasing, having said they would
    44        not release, the ingredients information in their own
    45        pamphlet.
    46
    47   Q.   When you say "led to" do you mean followed by?
    48        A.  I have to say "followed by" -- I cannot prove the
    49        internal discussions in McDonald's.
    50 
    51   Q.   It is a boring thing that I had to raise with another 
    52        witness.  You are aware of the logical fallacy of post hoc 
    53        procter hoc, are you not?
    54        A.  Of course.
    55
    56   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is impossible to tease out whether it is
    57        the goodwill of the manufacturer, pressure from particular
    58        groups or a growing general awareness of the importance of
    59        something?  A pressure group would like to say ----
    60        A.  Absolutely.

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