Day 033 - 10 Oct 94 - Page 19


     
     1        A.  The two do tend to go, to run together, and in most
     2        every study a diet that is high in fat will also be low in
     3        fibre.  That is not always the case.  There can be some
     4        exceptions, but, for the most part, that is true.
     5
     6   MR. MORRIS:  As regards the development of cancers, different
     7        cancers, are some of them linked specifically with the fat
     8        content and not necessarily linked with fibre?
     9        A.  OK.  I hope I am not making things more complicated
    10        with this response, but fat and fibre appear to not only
    11        go together in the diet, such that a high fat diet will be
    12        low in fibre, a high fibre diet will typically be --
    13        a high fibre diet will typically be low in fat, but they
    14        do also have independent effects physiologically.  A high
    15        fat diet can elevate oestrogen levels.  A high fibre diet
    16        can reduce them.  So, they do have an independent effect.
    17
    18   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I understand that, but when you mention
    19        cholesterol, we are looking at cardiovascular disease
    20        rather than cancer?
    21        A.  Correct.
    22
    23   Q.   I did not make it clear that the question I was putting to
    24        you was in relation to cancers; do you understand?
    25        A.  With regard to heart disease, the particular point
    26        I was raising ----
    27
    28   Q.   Forget heart disease for the moment, because I understand
    29        what you have said there; that may have nothing to do with
    30        low fibre because the culprit you are suggesting is high
    31        fat.  You are not suggesting a protective mechanism in
    32        high fibre so far as heart disease is concerned?
    33        A.  I did not allude to it, but, yes, there is a
    34        protective effect of fibre.  Fibre helps eliminate
    35        cholesterol from the body and may have other effects,
    36        cholesterol lowering effects.  But I did not mention that
    37        in my statement.
    38
    39   Q.   You can point to a particular mechanism, you say, so far
    40        as heart disease is concerned, in high fat regardless of
    41        the fibre element of a particular diet?
    42        A.  Yes.
    43
    44   Q.   When we come to cancer are you saying that as well, or are
    45        you saying we should take high fat/low fibre as a
    46        package?  It may be of relevance in this case when I come
    47        to look at the number of occasions people may, or a
    48        significant proportion of the population may, eat in
    49        McDonald's, because it may be one thing to say:  "If they
    50        eat X often at McDonald's their diet will be high in fat 
    51        and saturated fat".  It may not follow that in those cases 
    52        it would be low in fibre, do you understand? 
    53        A.  Yes.
    54
    55   Q.   That is why I want to see if it is a complete package,
    56        high fat/low fibre, or not?
    57        A.  I think it may be overall helpful to try to separate
    58        the two.  Studies have shown, for example, with the effect
    59        on hormones, that just as a high fat diet will elevate
    60        cholesterol levels and increase the risk of heart disease,

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