Day 020 - 28 Jul 94 - Page 63
1
Q. They were not jumping on and sliding down of their own
2 accord?
A. There was some coercion, yes, but it was not violent
3 or vigorous coercion as you sometimes see in unloading
pigs from lorries, yes.
4
Q. How many pigs did you see being slaughtered?
5 A. I do not recall offhand. I do not think it is in the
report either. No, I would not like to comment. I do not
6 know.
7 Q. You do not know?
A. I do not know, no.
8
Q. Have you no idea at all?
9 A. Well, bearing in mind the period I was there, it was
no longer than an hour and a quarter observing the
10 stunning and slaughtering area. Some of that would be
interrupted because there was somebody alongside me who
11 might be saying something, or I might be looking at
facilities as against the individual animals being stunned
12 and slaughtered. So I would be assessing an overall
situation, so it is difficult to say what proportion of my
13 time was spent actually observing the actual acts of
stunning and slaughter.
14
Q. But you do not know how many were slaughtered in total
15 while you were there?
A. Well, let us say -- I am afraid we are getting into
16 the realms of trying to not -----
17 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, one can see from page 9 of his report.
18 MS. STEEL: Can you not interrupt?
19 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No, I am afraid you have to accept that it
is part of normal court conduct to have interruptions from
20 time to time -- the fewer the better -- but they are
either to make formal objection or quite often in an
21 attempt to help in one way or another.
22 MR. RAMPTON: It is intended to help.
23 MR. JUSTICE BELL: If you have been told by someone there
should be no interruptions at all, you have been
24 misinformed.
25 MR. RAMPTON: On page 9 -- I merely observe this; I think it
does help, I may be wrong -- Dr. Gregory writes: "At the
26 company's abattoir pigs are being killed at 200 to 240 per
hour". That may help him give a rough guide to the number
27 he may have seen during the time he was there. That is
all.
28 A. I did have that in mind. However, as I explained to
Ms. Steel, only a proportion of the time I was in that
29 position was spent actually observing the acts of stunning
and slaughter. So let us -----
30
MR. JUSTICE BELL: Does that help, you going back to the
