Day 288 - 28 Oct 96 - Page 16


     
     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   I do not want to interrupt you, I would like
     2        you to get back on your track, but it occurs to me that it
     3        might be that you do want 'torture' in, because if that is
     4        where you get your general sting from -- the torture -- the
     5        torture, let us say, is just a rather fierce way of saying
     6        animals are suffering and McDonald's are responsible for
     7        it.  And you do want that in, because you do want a general
     8        sting which you think you can justify with matters apart
     9        from artificial conditions, frantically struggling to
    10        escape and having their throats cut while fully conscious,
    11        because you say you have got some other torturous conduct
    12        to complain about.  Is that not right?
    13
    14   MS. STEEL:
    15
    16   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Forget the actual word 'torture', anyone is
    17        entitled to call it torture; if you want, it is just a
    18        question of how strong your descriptive word is.
    19
    20   MS. STEEL:   Obviously, I mean, the whole of that section of the
    21        fact sheet is where you get the sting from, and that
    22        includes the heading.  But it is just that we want to make
    23        the point that McDonald's should not be allowed to resile
    24        from the admission that they made earlier that they are not
    25        complaining about the words 'torture' and 'murder',
    26        because, effectively - well, just that that is the opinion,
    27        and they said they were complaining about a fact.  But, I
    28        mean, they are still continuing with their claim of utter
    29        indifference, and we are entitled to justify their meaning
    30        even if we do not consider that that is the meaning of the
    31        leaflet.
    32
    33        So, the evidence on all the matters which are not
    34        specifically referred to in the fact sheet still has to be
    35        taken into consideration.
    36
    37   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  (Pause).
    38
    39   MR. MORRIS:   Can I say that the general sting of the suffering
    40        of animals is a fact.
    41
    42   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Well, I know, so you say, and you may be
    43        right.  But we are looking at the wording of the section at
    44        the moment and trying to find what its meaning is.
    45
    46   MR. MORRIS:   Yes, but Helen has already said that the general
    47        sting is one that animals suffer for the food industry, and
    48        that is a fact which we are proving both from the-----
    49
    50   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Where do you get that general sting from? 
    51        You may say you get it from constant slaughter, but you 
    52        want more than that; you want it in the rearing as well. 
    53        It just occurs to me that the route to it is the use of the
    54        word 'torture', which does impute suffering.
    55
    56   MS. STEEL:   I did say that it is based on the entire section of
    57        the leaflet.
    58
    59   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You have said that, that is why I was just
    60        taking issue with Mr. Morris on that.  Right.  Well, let us

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