Day 077 - 25 Jan 95 - Page 44


     
     1        the varieties of bacteria which may be found in food but
     2        upon their quantity?
     3        A.  Yes, because of the toxins from the bacteria.  If you
     4        have a very high count, you have a very high toxin level.
     5        That is when you get illness.
     6
     7   Q.   We see that there is a spread for "passable" between
     8        500,000 and 10 to the six which is how many?
     9
    10   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Five million.
    11
    12   THE WITNESS:  Five million.
    13
    14   MR. RAMPTON:  Five million.  Yes.  Then "unsatisfactory" is in
    15        excess of that amount?
    16        A.  Correct.
    17
    18   Q.   So far you are aware, is that a proper scientific basis on
    19        which to set these figures?
    20        A.  By usage, yes.  I mean, we have used it for a number of
    21        years.
    22
    23   Q.   A piece of McDonald's meat which has a TVC or meat destined
    24        for McDonald's of, let us say, a "satisfactory" quality,
    25        would it matter so long as it did not contain E.coli?
    26        A.  It would matter in so far that we also specifically
    27        look and identify one organism, salmonella.
    28
    29   Q.   Can I preface what I am next going to ask by asking you
    30        this:  What are the bacteria which in sufficient quantity
    31        become pathogens in humans that might be found in your
    32        products?
    33        A.  Staphylococcusaurus, staphylococcusalmus, salmonella
    34        and E.coli.
    35
    36   Q.   You do not know anything about the poultry trade, do you?
    37        A.  I know a little but not a lot.
    38
    39   Q.   We will leave them out of it.  Of those four organisms you
    40        have just named, the two kinds of staphylococcus,
    41        salmonella and E.coli in this form, which is the one which
    42        causes you the most concern, if any?
    43        A.  E.coli.
    44
    45   Q.   What is the reason for that?
    46        A.  Well, because E.coli 0157 : H is an E.coli which you or
    47        I could have in our intestines and it is non-pathogenic,
    48        but another person in this room could get that particular
    49        disease and it becomes pathogenic.
    50 
    51   Q.   Are the consequences for human beings worse, better or 
    52        similar for E.coli and for salmonella?  It is not a very 
    53        well-phrased question, but do you understand what I mean?
    54        A.  I think I understand what you mean.  Salmonella will
    55        give you a very, very bad attack of food poisoning which in
    56        the majority of cases is cured.  E.coli can be very
    57        dangerous and in a bad outbreak it is very hard to cure,
    58        but I must qualify that by saying I am not a doctor.
    59
    60   Q.   No, I understand that.  But we are, perhaps his Lordship

Prev Next Index