Day 292 - 01 Nov 96 - Page 39


     
     1   MR JUSTICE BELL:  I am on another point now, I have grasped
     2        that.  What I need to do at some stage is say, yes, I see
     3        what they say in the McFact card and the representation --
     4        misrepresentation, you would say -- about recycling, then I
     5        look at a piece of - and that may be what you are really
     6        aiming at, but you might say, well, we have actually got a
     7        letter here, as it happens, in the bundle, and on it it has
     8        got 'recycled paper'.  Do you see what I mean?  Because it
     9        was actually typed, it said, or word processed on recycled
    10        paper, and you might want to say that is a
    11        misrepresentation, whether by exaggeration, which is what
    12        you are really saying, or total dishonesty, which is really
    13        what you are saying the McFact card is, because it gives
    14        the impression that they were actually recycling the stuff
    15        into something useful when all they have done is collected
    16        some of it.  Do you see what I mean?
    17
    18   MR. MORRIS:   They did not even collect it, actually.  They just
    19        dumped -----
    20
    21   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I have the McFact card point.  I can see you
    22        might say, you might say, that there is a deception which
    23        justifies what they said.  On the other hand, Mr. Rampton
    24        might say, no, that is not what this leaflet is getting at,
    25        even if that were a deception.
    26
    27   MR. MORRIS:   I mean, I don't know -----
    28
    29   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   It is the use of recycled paper which is the
    30        alleged deception or exaggeration.  I don't know.  We have
    31        got to hear Mr. Rampton yet.
    32
    33   MR. MORRIS:   I think the example is, for example, it does
    34        relate to this, the content.  One example, I can give a
    35        direct quote, a direct reference now:  Day 63, page 15,
    36        line 27, where Mr. Von Erp agreed, I think he agreed, but
    37        certainly anyway it is our case that he is compelled to
    38        agree, that none of the European products which were
    39        described as containing recycled content in the chart we
    40        were looking at at that time, and if you remember the chart
    41        had the recycled percentage in it, none of them would be
    42        able to be called recycled in the USA, they would not be
    43        allowed to use that word because they would have to have a
    44        significant percentage of post-customer-----
    45
    46   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   I have that point.  I have that point too.
    47        What at the moment I am focusing on is not whether if they
    48        say the paper they use is recycled it is true and honest
    49        and gives the right impression, what I am on at the moment
    50        is where do they actually say they use recycled paper?
    51        Then if you demonstrate to me they say it here and they say
    52        it there, when we go to the next stage, well, is it true or
    53        not, and, even though, is it true in substance in that it
    54        is more than just an insignificant proportion recycled.  Do
    55        you see the point I am getting at?   It may be a very
    56        obvious answer to it.
    57
    58   MR. MORRIS:   Yes.  I don't know.
    59
    60   MR JUSTICE BELL:    It may be that it has been in front of me

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