Day 099 - 08 Mar 95 - Page 73


     
     1        A.  I would say it is not its optimum growth temperature
     2        which is, I think, the question you are trying to ask me.
     3
     4   Q.   I am not worried about the optimum at the moment.  I am
     5        worried about the minimum.  OK.  In the same way the 63
     6        degrees, although it is a rule of thumb that may be helpful
     7        for the food industry, it is not a temperature that is
     8        guaranteed to kill all the bacteria, is it?
     9        A.  It is not a temperature at which it kills bacteria,
    10        no.  It is a temperature at which bacteria tend to stop
    11        multiplying.
    12
    13   Q.   You said that, "We tell suppliers to keep temperatures down
    14        during manufacture".  Is that correct?
    15        A.  Yes. You are talking about, sorry, you are talking
    16        about beef and chicken still?
    17
    18   Q.   Yes.
    19        A.  Yes.
    20
    21   Q.   I am always talking about beef and chicken unless I specify
    22        something else.  That is because whenever the temperature
    23        is above the minimum for activity or growth, the count will
    24        increase.  That is your concern, is it not?
    25        A.  Yes.  We keep it at a child temperature to minimise any
    26        possible growth of bacteria, that is correct.
    27
    28   Q.   When you say, "We tell suppliers to keep the temperature
    29        down during manufacture", does that also go not just in the
    30        process plant, is that also in the slaughterhouses?
    31        A.  Yes, as soon as the -- you are talking about the
    32        chicken I guess -- as soon as the chickens are killed the
    33        carcasses are chilled, yes.
    34
    35   Q.   Why is the specification for McKey's that there should be
    36        no salmonella found in 25 grammes?  What is the concern
    37        there?
    38        A.  The incidence of salmonella in beef in the industry is
    39        extremely low.  Obviously as we know that.  We will test
    40        for salmonella and if it is present we -- how can
    41        I explain?  Unlike the chicken where you are expecting to
    42        find salmonella there, there is no point in really testing
    43        for it, although we do to monitor its incidence, but in
    44        beef you are not really expecting it to be there.  So we
    45        set a test there to see if it is.  The fact that it is
    46        there does not mean there is a problem because, again, it
    47        is a raw meat product that then goes on to be cooked, so it
    48        would not cause a problem.
    49
    50   Q.   If you find salmonella in a tested product at, well, 
    51        I think we have already heard that the only positive 
    52        release at McKey's is the E.coli, the release is held back 
    53        until the results of the E.coli test, is that correct?
    54        A.  Yes, the finished product is not shipped until the
    55        results are known on the E.coli test.  That is correct.
    56
    57   Q.   But on all the other tests there is not a positive release?
    58        A.  No.
    59
    60   Q.   Specification?

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