Day 068 - 16 Dec 94 - Page 32


     
     1        if we happen to start at Brazil, and the next year we go
     2        through the same process, the Minister of Agriculture, and
     3        the recognised ecologically considered rainforest will be a
     4        smaller area.  That is accepted by the United Nations and
     5        the organisations.  If we continue the practice -----
     6
     7   Q.   We understand all about that.  What I want to know is what
     8        McDonald's attitude is?
     9        A.  The other part is -- OK, so we look back at the time
    10        when we arrive.  So if we arrive this year, it will be, let
    11        us say, half this table.  If next year they deforest this
    12        five centimetres to the right, which is the rainforest,
    13        ecologically, then it has moved to reduce the rainforest.
    14        But we will still not buy any product, any beef, from that
    15        recently deforested area from the time that we arrive, even
    16        if it is not a rainforest any more.
    17
    18   MR. MORRIS:   So you if you have been in a country 30 years,
    19        "recently" will mean within the last 30 years?
    20        A.  That is correct.
    21
    22   Q.   How does that relate to exports from countries that may
    23        have rainforests?
    24        A.  In what sense?
    25
    26   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Exports by whom?
    27
    28   MR. MORRIS:  Sorry.  If McDonald's import from a country where
    29        there are rainforests, would the "recently" apply to when
    30        the company was first founded in 1954?
    31        A.  We would follow the local regulations.  Our policy will
    32        not change.  We will not say that we will not import or
    33        export our beef patties because they have rainforests.  Our
    34        policy is not to use any beef from the areas that are
    35        considered rainforest.  So, the policy still is the same;
    36        it does not change.
    37
    38   Q.   Say, for example, Brazil; if you buy beef from Brazil,
    39        another country, how does the definition of "recent" apply
    40        then?
    41        A.  We have a map, an area where it is considered that has
    42        not changed.  I have seen it and it looks old.  I do not
    43        know how far it goes, but it looks old.  That has not
    44        changed.  It is the same map.  Brazil is a big country.  At
    45        the bottom, you have the Amazon on top, which is
    46        rainforest, and you have the different areas below that.
    47        Our map has not changed from when we started from where we
    48        agreed on what was at that time the rainforest.
    49
    50        If we were (which we are not, but if I accept your 
    51        hypothetical question), if we were to export any product 
    52        from Brazil, we have to follow the same guidelines, that 
    53        the animals will come from areas that are not the
    54        rainforests or have not been recently deforested.
    55
    56   Q.   So, for example, if you import -- say, another country
    57        imports from Brazil -- that does happen, does it not?
    58        A.  Another country, that is -- yes.
    59
    60   Q.   McDonald's?

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