Day 105 - 16 Mar 95 - Page 24
1 A. Yes, both the environmental swabs, the general meat
2 samples, and the E.coli 0157 examinations.
3
4 Q. The grading system, how does that work? What does it go
5 from and to?
6 A. Could I ------
7
8 Q. It is at page 67 where they start. Is it "A" to "E"?
9 A. Yes, there are four standard type of grading systems
10 which each individual laboratory and company will agree
11 between them. These are guidance.
12
13 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Can you remember offhand what they go down
14 to?
15 A. In terms of the actual microbiological count?
16
17 Q. What the letters go down to?
18 A. "E".
19
20 Q. "E" is the bottom, is it?
21 A. Yes.
22
23 Q. I can see "E" is the lowest on the forms, but there is not
24 an "F" or a "G"?
25 A. No, it is usual to have four grades to provide an
26 indication of the overall quality.
27
28 Q. You have five?
29 A. Yes, there are five here.
30
31 MS. STEEL: This form dated 1st March 1994?
32 A. Yes.
33
34 Q. Has five grade Es and three grade Ds?
35 A. Yes.
36
37 Q. Is that acceptable?
38 A. Yes, as 60,000 organisms.
39
40 Q. So that does not worry you in the slightest that there are
41 five grade Es on there?
42 A. No.
43
44 Q. Nor that there are five grade Es on 25th March report?
45 A. No, these Total Viable Counts are not particularly
46 high. If we can turn to the one on the 25th where we have
47 got an 86,000 Total Viable Count, it is the sort of count
48 that would lead me to have a word with the cleaning
49 supervisor to make sure that he has applied the correct
50 sterilant, but I would not be over-concerned. We never get
51 sterility again and all meat plants, all activity that
52 involves living, involves bacteria, and so long as the
53 counts are within a broad spectrum -- if we were getting up
54 to 10 million, I would have passed the stage where I would
55 be talking to the cleaning foreman if there was gross
56 contamination, but these, in my opinion, do not indicate
57 any like gross contamination.
58
59 Q. You say you would have a word with the cleaning staff or
60 something, but of the E grades on 1st March 1994, four of
