Day 113 - 03 Apr 95 - Page 51
1
2 Q. Forget the sheep for the moment?
3 A. Yes, sorry.
4
5 Q. I think Dr. Gregory in his statement anyway said that the
6 prevalence of imperfect stunning at the abattoir he
7 surveyed for the purposes of this case was 3.7 per cent,
8 and a survey of 27 beef abattoirs conducted in 1987
9 involving 1,944 animals, this value was 6.6 per cent.
10
11 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That 3.7 per cent included the man who shot
12 again, was it not, where it was not known whether there was
13 an imperfect stun; is that right?
14
15 MR. MORRIS: It may well be right.
16
17 MR. JUSTICE BELL: The point being it might in fact have been a
18 perfect stun but he was prepared to infer the slaughterman
19 had some query about it or he would not have done it.
20 A. That is difficult, my Lord, to be sure that the animal
21 is insentient. The law requires instantaneous loss of
22 sentience. If you do not have the sophisticated equipment,
23 the elaborate equipment that Neville Gregory has got, you
24 have to rely on, certainly in the circumstances of a
25 slaughterhouse, matters like the corneal reflex and you do
26 not have much chance to look at those. I think Neville
27 Gregory has found when he has been round slaughterhouses
28 that when they are in full operation they do not
29 particularly like it if you go groping around to see
30 whether the animals flick their eyelids if you poke your
31 finger in, but anyway it is an uncertain test.
32
33 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You seem to be at the moment to be relying
34 upon Dr. Gregory's findings as to the source of your
35 information. Do you have anything to add from your own
36 experience?
37 A. Yes, I would say it is about the same, but I take great
38 respect because he has looked at rather more than I have.
39 He has done it with better statistics and with more
40 elaborate investigation.
41
42 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, if this witness is going to defer to
43 Dr. Gregory on these matters, it would save an awful lot of
44 time if he said so, so I shall not have to cross-examine
45 him at all then.
46
47 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I think it may be in some instances you will,
48 but so far on more than one occasion where you have
49 depended upon what Dr. Gregory has found, you have said so.
50 A. Yes.
51
52 Q. When you have done that I am assuming that, in a sense, you
53 are deferring to him. So if your experience is in any way
54 different I would like you to tell me so?
55 A. Yes, I find the same, I am really confirming it, that
56 we both agree, but the figures might be slightly different
57 at certain times. I think you quoted a figure of his of
58 five years ago -- no, 1988, was it?
59
60 MR. MORRIS: 1987. I think the lower -----
