Day 154 - 13 Jul 95 - Page 32


     
     1        not have to pay them any holiday pay?
     2        A.  You pay them the accrued holiday pay that they would
     3        have accrued according to the length of time they had
     4        worked in the establishment.
     5
     6   Q.   Which is none, until they have been there at least four
     7        months?
     8        A.  Until they have worked up the required service length
     9        to qualify for the holiday, which is outlined in the crew
    10        handbooks.  We really do not encourage turnover of staff
    11        soon into their career.  We prefer them to stay a long time
    12        and we prefer them to stay as long as possible.
    13
    14   MS. STEEL:  I do not really know how I can put this to the
    15        witness, but it was misrepresented to the witness when it
    16        was in evidence-in-chief.  Our case is that turnover ------
    17
    18   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Take it very slowly.  Put it in a question to
    19        the witness as well.  If you want to tell me first, then
    20        -----
    21
    22   MS. STEEL:  To be honest, I do not know whether I can put it in
    23        a question to the witness.  Our case is that turnover is
    24        high and that that does suit or benefit McDonald's in some
    25        ways; and whether it be kept deliberately and consciously
    26        high, or whether it is just the end result of the pay and
    27        conditions that means that people are leaving on a regular
    28        basis, it benefits McDonald's in a number of ways:  it
    29        makes it harder for the crew to unionise; the wage costs
    30        are lower.  They also would maintain a younger workforce,
    31        because if people under 18 are being taken on and are not
    32        staying on past 18, they do not have to pay the over-18
    33        rate of pay to those crew.
    34
    35   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.
    36
    37   MS. STEEL:  That is basically it.  I do not really know how I am
    38        supposed to put a question directly on that to the witness.
    39
    40   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, I was not rising for that.  I do
    41        not believe it to be the law that a defendant to a libel
    42        action is allowed to have his or her cake and eat it.  If I
    43        can stop this thing, I will, so that I can read what was
    44        said.  It is only this bit that troubles me.  Ms. Steel
    45        says that "turnover is high and that suits or benefits
    46        McDonald's in some ways".  There is no specificity there.
    47        This is the bit that troubles me:  "....and whether it be
    48        kept deliberately and consciously high or whether it is
    49        just the end result of pay and conditions that means that
    50        people are leaving on a regular basis, it benefits 
    51        McDonald's".  My Lord, the Defendants have to make up their 
    52        minds which of those alternatives they say their case is. 
    53        It has to be one or the other.
    54
    55   MS. STEEL:  We do not have to make up our mind.  The fact is
    56        that turnover is high and it does benefit McDonald's.
    57
    58   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  If they do not wish to say which it is that
    59        they wish to give the alternatives, I will have it left
    60        there.  It is not what Mr. Morris has put, because he has

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