Day 097 - 06 Mar 95 - Page 60


     
     1        into the correct position so that he can get a clear and
     2        accurate shot?
     3        A.  It can take a long time.  It does not always, but it
     4        can take quite a long time, 20, 30 seconds.
     5
     6   Q.   Do you put any pressure on your slaughtermen to hurry up
     7        and get it shot anyhow so that you can keep the line
     8        moving?
     9        A.  No.
    10
    11   Q.   What is the time, roughly speaking, between stunning and
    12        sticking, roughly speaking?
    13        A.  40 to 60 seconds.
    14
    15   Q.   Let me have just a quick look at those MAFF pocket
    16        guidelines on slaughter -- I hope you have them now, page
    17        125 -- just in case there is anything I have not asked you
    18        about.  It says on page 126 left-hand column -- do you have
    19        126?
    20        A.  Yes.
    21
    22   Q.   Little 2 at the bottom:  "Animals must not be subjected to
    23        unnecessary pain or unnecessary distress at any time", we
    24        need not bother about that.  "Stunning always: ensure that
    25        an effective stun is achieved",  do not worry about that.
    26         "Ensure that a reserve mechanically operated stunning
    27        instrument is readily available and in good working order
    28        for immediate use in the event of the first stunning
    29        instrument failing to operate effectively."
    30
    31        You have told us that you do have that backup instrument.
    32        Have you ever known a case while you have been at Midland
    33        Meat in which, as it were, either the gun was not there or
    34        it did not work, the backup gun?
    35        A.  I am not aware of a case, no.
    36
    37   Q.   You can forget the next one because it does not apply to
    38        cattle.  I do not think we need worry about any of the rest
    39        of that column, nor the next column either.  That is all we
    40        need look at on that.  Can I ask you, keeping that volume
    41        open, Mr. Chambers, to turn on past your statement and its
    42        appendices or its appendix -- before I leave that, can
    43        I ask you to 191, please and just glance at these pages
    44        from 191 to the end, 195, where you will see a signature by
    45        a trainee somebody called Ursula Taylor and somebody called
    46        Roy Smith.  Tell me what this document is or what these
    47        documents are?
    48        A.  The one that is signed by Ursula Taylor and Roy Smith
    49        is animal welfare training for people who work -----
    50 
    51   Q.   OK then, all right.  I thought they were one document but 
    52        they are not.  If you go back to 193, it should be a 
    53        documented headed "Job Analysis Stun Operator" do you see
    54        that?
    55        A.  Yes.
    56
    57   Q.   What is that?
    58        A.  This is surprisingly a job analysis for the stun
    59        operator.  It is the code of practice, if you like, that
    60        the stun operator has to abide by when stunning animals.

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