Day 181 - 01 Nov 95 - Page 12


     
     1        those restaurants, talking to colleagues in the industry,
     2        in the wider industry.
     3
     4        Sometimes -- in fact, I remember one occasion we turned up
     5        with catering uniforms on; people would turn up with their
     6        chef's gear on, and so forth.  They would be talking to
     7        each other.  The response was generally sympathetic and
     8        positive because, in the industry, there is a currency
     9        amongst the workforce about low pay, a currency in the
    10        workforce about a desire to improve things.
    11
    12   Q.   What I am just trying to say is, were the McDonald's
    13        workers -- was the response from them any better or worse
    14        in terms of their interest in joining unions than other
    15        catering non-unionised companies?
    16        A.  Par for the course:  no better, no worse, no more
    17        enthusiastic, no less enthusiastic than many other
    18        workplaces; and I would say why is because of the
    19        generality of concern in the industry about pay and
    20        conditions.
    21
    22        I must say, throughout the Inner London stretch, going from
    23        Euston through to Bayswater and down to Kensington and
    24        dipping down into Central London, Trafalgar Square, in
    25        those stretches of hotels and restaurants there was always
    26        a tremendous, massive job to be done in terms of basic
    27        employment rights, advice; and McDonald's was one of many
    28        companies, many companies, that we did -- and still do; the
    29        trade union still does approach; employees in those
    30        companies are approached, and that will always be the case,
    31        as long as conditions are such as they are.  So, the
    32        response was, you know, par for the course.
    33
    34   Q.   Par for the course, right, which you described as
    35        "sympathetic"?
    36        A.  Sympathetic.
    37
    38   Q.   And positive?
    39
    40   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think you have pursued that as far as you
    41        can, Mr. Morris.
    42
    43   MR. MORRIS:  OK.
    44        A.  But the condition I put on that response is simply
    45        this, that people do not linger under the eye of
    46        management; and so there was a problem about sustaining
    47        contact, and you would often arrange to meet at another
    48        time -- and this did happen -- in my office, or wherever,
    49        to explain matters more fully, if people were interested.
    50 
    51   MR. MORRIS:  Just a couple of final questions.  We have heard 
    52        something about drink breaks.  Apart from the breaks which 
    53        McDonald's workers are meant to have -- lunch breaks or
    54        whatever, meal breaks -- the need for a drinks break, they
    55        have to ask permission, and they may get one or two minutes
    56        standing in a corner, or something.  In the catering
    57        industry, working in a kitchen environment, can you just
    58        say what your opinion is about the need for drinks breaks?
    59        A.  Well, in short, this is one of those aspects of the
    60        employment contract which is often unwritten.  Custom and

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