Day 256 - 04 Jun 96 - Page 77


     
     1        mean, virtually all of the countries here are really high
     2        fat diets.  So, you are comparing, you know, people
     3        consuming high fat diets with people consuming very high
     4        fat diets.
     5
     6   MR. RAMPTON:  We have got Greece though, have we not?  That is
     7        very high fat.  It is five down, is it not?  Their rates of
     8        mortality from coronary heart disease are about as low as
     9        the French.  Do you see that?
    10        A.  Yes, but it could be much lower, in fact, if they did
    11        not consume so much fat, compared to China.
    12
    13   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, but when you say virtually all the
    14        countries here are consuming high fat diets, what
    15        conclusion or view was that taking you to with regard to
    16        these various figures?
    17        A.  Well, basically what it suggests is that, going back to
    18        the dietary guidelines point of view again, reducing fat
    19        intake down to about 30 per cent of calories consumed is
    20        not going to do much.  We are going to see more (inaudible)
    21        here and there are all sorts of reasons to see the real
    22        reduction, the substantial reductions in cancers and heart
    23        disease and the like, we are going to have to go lower than
    24        30 per cent fat.  Once you get to 30 per cent fat you are
    25        really, basically, exhausted and we are going beyond the
    26        -----
    27
    28   MR. RAMPTON:  You are what?
    29        A.  Exhausted; you have exhausted the relationship that
    30        otherwise exists.  In other words, you are sort of going up
    31        like this, you are plateauing, if you will.
    32
    33   Q.   Are you suggesting that more than 30 per cent of energy
    34        from fat, the relationship between fat and disease, ceases
    35        to be linear?
    36        A.  Yes, it appears to be.  Well, it is much less
    37        significant.
    38
    39   Q.   According to these charts, if they are anything like right,
    40        in fact, one should go on up to well over 50 per cent and
    41        then one's rates of mortality from heart disease would
    42        start to descend very sharply, would they not?  Is that
    43        possible?
    44        A.  No, it is not possible and that is what these data have
    45        shown.  I simply -- I mean, I would really have to sit down
    46        and look at these data, where they came from, and why they
    47        are presented in this fashion.  I do not believe them.
    48
    49   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is fair enough because you have only
    50        just had them put to you. 
    51 
    52   MR. RAMPTON:  I understand.  I do not take any blame for this 
    53        because -----
    54   A.   Has this been published?
    55
    56   Q.   Yes, it comes from that, which is number 46 in the series.
    57
    58   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It appears in various parts in here and it
    59        has all been transferred on to one sheet for easy reference
    60        in court.

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