Day 078 - 26 Jan 95 - Page 62
1 well. Secondly, the whole of the beef industry is really
2 based on rearing calves taken away from the dairy industry.
3
4 Q. So you would accept that in order to get McDonald's beef
5 those cows are going to suffer the affects of having their
6 calves taken away?
7 A. I would accept that the whole meat industry, not just
8 McDonald's, is involved in your recent statement. I would
9 also point out to you that after 12, 24 hours the cow has
10 forgotten the calf and the calf has forgotten the cow and
11 the cow is looking for the bull again.
12
13 Q. So do you think that the suffering of cows does not matter
14 if it only lasts for 12 hours or whatever you consider this
15 period to be?
16 A. I cannot tell you what suffering is in a cow. All
17 I can tell you is that a cow moos for its calf.
18
19 Q. But are you saying ----
20 A. That is one of the problems. We try to convey our
21 reasoning and thinking into an animal and my experience
22 tells me that that is not correct.
23
24 Q. Are you saying that it does not matter?
25 A. No, I am not saying it does not matter. Good husbandry
26 and good farming, you have to look after all your animals.
27
28 Q. Yes, but it is impossible to do it without suffering?
29 A. It is impossible to do it without suffering -- well,
30 I suppose if a calf -----
31
32 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Put it in proportion for him. It is
33 impossible for any animal, including the human one, to get
34 through its life without some suffering. What we are
35 looking at is the degree of it. If you challenge what
36 Mr. Walker said about the day, put it to him. In fact,
37 Dr. Gregory dealt with this to some extent and you might
38 have been content with his answers, but you obviously were
39 not so you have asked Mr. Walker questions about it. You
40 did not have to ask Mr. Walker questions. You could have
41 relied upon Mr. Gregory's evidence in this respect. At the
42 end of the day, you are going to ask me to put such degree
43 of suffering as there may be into the equation. What
44 I want to know in relation to this is whether you challenge
45 what has been the gist of Mr. Walker's evidence that it is
46 for a relatively short period.
47
48 MS. STEEL: Actually I have not got my notes on this because
49 I was not intending to go down this particular line at this
50 time. With respect, I would disagree with the point that
51 you have said about it is impossible to get through life
52 without suffering. I do not think that is the be all and
53 end all of the issue. If the suffering is caused by a
54 deliberate action, then that is different to something that
55 happens accidentally.
56
57 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You may well be right. What I have to try to
58 get my round is the extent of it, then I can look at what
59 is to be gained, if anything, from it and you can address
60 me on whether it can be morally justified in some way.
