Day 124 - 10 May 95 - Page 18
1 A. When you say "summing-up the situation" the San
2 Francisco situation? Again, I do not have any recollection
3 of the San Francisco situation that you are referring to.
4
5 Q. That lie detector tests have been used to determine union
6 sympathies, dishonesty, and a refusal was ground for
7 dismissal?
8
9 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Why do you not break it up, because the
10 answer will not necessarily be the same for all three. Do
11 you remember?
12
13 THE WITNESS: On the first question, no, on the second question,
14 yes. I think I responded to you earlier that my
15 recollection of the use of lie detector tests was basically
16 to cover areas of honesty. It was used as an additional
17 screen when individuals that were deemed, were thought to
18 have had the necessary skills to go into management were
19 given a lie detector test. This was not used universally
20 or extensively, but many franchisees and many Company
21 people felt that was helpful. So, in the area of
22 dishonesty, yes. With regard to your question on
23 dismissal, if a person refused to take it I cannot speak
24 for all to that. I can only tell you that in a particular
25 case where I have used a lie detector test, I did not
26 dismiss employees for refusing to take the lie detector
27 test. It raised my eyebrows if they did not and perhaps --
28 not perhaps, I had some trepidation about putting them into
29 positions of major responsibility because of that. But
30 I did not dismiss, nor do I recall people that
31 I supervised, or who were peers at the time, that dismissed
32 employees because they did not take it. Again, the major
33 reason, the only reason that we used it in the area where
34 I worked was to cover areas of honesty.
35
36 MR. JUSTICE BELL: So, on the occasions when you used them
37 yourself, that was only where there was a suspicion or
38 question of possible dishonesty, was it?
39 A. That is correct.
40
41 Q. You did not use them for recruitment interviews yourself,
42 or did you?
43 A. No.
44
45 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Do you want to go to the end of any questions
46 about lie detectors, and then we will have a break?
47
48 MR. MORRIS: I have nearly finished on this one, yes. (To the
49 witness): Are you aware that it had been found that job
50 application forms for McDonald's, or for some branches of
51 McDonald's, had actually stipulated that each employee must
52 acknowledge their obligation to take a lie detector test
53 upon request or face dismissal. That was a clause in some
54 job application forms at least?
55 A. That is probably true. To my recollection that is
56 probably true in some cases.
57
58 Q. And that the Deputy Labour Commissioner, Brian Seal,
59 ordered the Company to cease the use of lie detectors or
60 face court action?
