Day 128 - 24 May 95 - Page 61


     
     1        of letters from the HSE, dated June and September 1994.
     2        Although Mrs. Barnes was not asked to refer to those,
     3        I have to say I am not surprised she was not asked but,
     4        nevertheless, it was thought right to discover them.
     5
     6        What it seems to me is that the first step is for someone
     7        who is qualified to pass a sensible and skilled judgment on
     8        the matter, which really, I am afraid, means you or
     9        Mr. Atkinson, to look at the Health and Safety Task Force
    10        minutes that are available.
    11
    12   MR. RAMPTON:  We will certainly do that.  Of course we will.
    13        May I say at this stage -- perhaps it is better not to say
    14        anything more just now -- your Lordship rightly observes --
    15        because I have just looked at it -- there is virtually
    16        nothing in the pamphlet about health and safety.  There are
    17        simply, as far as I can find, these words:  "Doing long
    18        shifts in hot smelly noisy environments".  Then there is
    19        something about conditions, but that appears to be hours of
    20        work, chances of promotion.
    21
    22   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  "Workers in catering do badly in terms of pay
    23        and conditions".
    24
    25   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, that goes on to be qualified: "Wages are
    26        low and..." There are three things, long shifts in hot,
    27        smelly, noisy environment, low wages and minimal chances of
    28        promotion.
    29
    30   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I thought health and safety came in under the
    31        general umbrella of conditions.
    32
    33   MR. RAMPTON:  That does not mean, of course, we do not have to
    34        make discovery in relation to pleadings which are on the
    35        record and which have not been struck out.
    36
    37   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I will not shirk health and safety now there
    38        has been all this evidence on it.
    39
    40   MR. RAMPTON:  We have not shirked it either, my Lord.  What
    41        I was going to say is this, given there is no direct
    42        reference to health and safety in the leaflet, apart from
    43        noise, length of hours and smell, if there comes to a
    44        dispute about it, urge your Lordship,  how I would urge
    45        your Lordship to approach it is:  "Yes, we must make
    46        discovery on the pleadings but, given that there is little
    47        or nothing about it in the leaflet", then the question
    48        becomes: "How far should the discovery need to go beyond
    49        the strict pleadings for the fair disposal of the case and
    50        the saving of costs?" 
    51 
    52   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Can I draw this afternoon's discussion to a 
    53        conclusion here?
    54
    55   MS. STEEL:   I was just going to say there were some other
    56        documents I wanted to mention, which kind of got
    57        sidetracked.
    58
    59   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Discussion then in relation to the Health and
    60        Safety Task Force minutes.  Someone is going to actually

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