Day 181 - 01 Nov 95 - Page 30
1 Q. Sorry, I will put it again. It was a rotten question,
2 I quite agree with you. The important thing is that people
3 who work overtime, more than 39 hours, that is to say, get
4 the statutory overtime or more per hour for those hours,
5 that is the important thing?
6 A. It is the important thing. What one would do in a
7 situation like this in terms of assessing the hourly rate,
8 and I am sure the answer will be familiar to my Lord
9 already, that you look at the actual out-turn rate. Of
10 course, if the merit system was so generous that,
11 effectively, it was a time -- it was a merit reward of 50
12 per cent of the hourly rate, in other words, time and a
13 half, that was the merit payment, and that was also an
14 overtime hour, then you would have the same hourly rate.
15
16 So, it is quite possible that the merit system picks up
17 quite a -- closes quite a lot of the gap. If one was
18 saying that there is an overtime -- sorry, if there is a
19 problem that the statutory overtime rate is not being paid,
20 and you say: "Well, many of these employees are on the
21 merit system, so their basic rate is, in fact, enhanced by
22 15p once and maybe 15p twice; it is getting them near to
23 the statutory minimum provision".
24
25 That is, of course, very possible, which is why, of course,
26 in any -- you know, fools rush in. I mean, if you are
27 making claims about statutory underpayment you would have
28 to look at cases.
29
30 Q. Exactly.
31 A. The records, though, do tend to show, do they not, six
32 per cent working more than 39 hours, and those people would
33 be the ones of interest to -- if there were such a thing
34 now as a Wages Council -- the Wages Council members would
35 be interested in ensuring that that fairly systematic
36 overtime basic -- that there was systematic overtime at
37 that level would be properly rewarded and, of course,
38 whether it was or not is an issue in contention here.
39
40 Q. Of course, and it is not an issue which I can possibly
41 expect you to resolve, Mr. Pearson, nor anybody else for
42 that matter, apart from his Lordship. If I may say so,
43 I agree 100 per cent respectfully with what you have just
44 told us. It would be the duty of the wages -- were they
45 called inspectors ---
46 A. Wage inspectors.
47
48 Q. -- to ensure that on a case by case basis people were not
49 being underpaid, and they do that by looking at the
50 company's records, do they not?
51 A. It is a statutory requirement, yes, of employers to
52 maintain for five year period the pay records.
53
54 Q. I know you say that the wages inspectors were overworked,
55 I think that is the effect of what you told us, too big a
56 case load; is that right?
57 A. That is what I said yesterday.
58
59 Q. I thought you did. However, from your position as a former
60 member of the relevant Wages Council for this industry,
