Day 105 - 16 Mar 95 - Page 24


     
     1        A.  Yes, both the environmental swabs, the general meat
     2        samples, and the E.coli 0157 examinations.
     3
     4   Q.   The grading system, how does that work?  What does it go
     5        from and to?
     6        A.  Could I ------
     7
     8   Q.   It is at page 67 where they start.  Is it "A" to "E"?
     9        A.  Yes, there are four standard type of grading systems
    10        which each individual laboratory and company will agree
    11        between them.  These are guidance.
    12
    13   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Can you remember offhand what they go down
    14        to?
    15        A.  In terms of the actual microbiological count?
    16
    17   Q.   What the letters go down to?
    18        A.  "E".
    19
    20   Q.   "E" is the bottom, is it?
    21        A.  Yes.
    22
    23   Q.   I can see "E" is the lowest on the forms, but there is not
    24        an "F" or a "G"?
    25        A.  No, it is usual to have four grades to provide an
    26        indication of the overall quality.
    27
    28   Q.   You have five?
    29        A.  Yes, there are five here.
    30
    31   MS. STEEL:  This form dated 1st March 1994?
    32        A.  Yes.
    33
    34   Q.    Has five grade Es and three grade Ds?
    35        A.  Yes.
    36
    37   Q.   Is that acceptable?
    38        A.  Yes, as 60,000 organisms.
    39
    40   Q.   So that does not worry you in the slightest that there are
    41        five grade Es on there?
    42        A.  No.
    43
    44   Q.   Nor that there are five grade Es on 25th March report?
    45        A.  No, these Total Viable Counts are not particularly
    46        high.  If we can turn to the one on the 25th where we have
    47        got an 86,000 Total Viable Count, it is the sort of count
    48        that would lead me to have a word with the cleaning
    49        supervisor to make sure that he has applied the correct
    50        sterilant, but I would not be over-concerned.  We never get 
    51        sterility again and all meat plants, all activity that 
    52        involves living, involves bacteria, and so long as the 
    53        counts are within a broad spectrum -- if we were getting up
    54        to 10 million, I would have passed the stage where I would
    55        be talking to the cleaning foreman if there was gross
    56        contamination, but these, in my opinion, do not indicate
    57        any like gross contamination.
    58
    59   Q.   You say you would have a word with the cleaning staff or
    60        something, but of the E grades on 1st March 1994, four of

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