Day 020 - 28 Jul 94 - Page 42


     
     1   Q.   It is not such good quality meat?
              A.  There is less demand for it.  It is generally of poor
     2        quality when it comes to conventional cooking methods when
              not processed.  It does not have -----
     3
         Q.   Does it include more fat than non-dairy beef?  If you do
     4        not know -----
              A.  In general, there is -- do you mean the carcass or do
     5        you mean the actual lean part it, do you mean
              intramuscular fat, intermuscular fat, or do you mean some
     6        other fat depot?
 
     7   Q.   The ratio of fat to lean?
              A.  In the carcass?
     8
         Q.   Yes.
     9
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You mean in that part which goes for making
    10        patties, do you?
 
    11   MR. MORRIS:  Yes, the parts that are used -----
              A.  In this situation it is open to the processor or
    12        manufacturer of the meat patty to decide what the ratio of
              fat to lean is.  So, it is not a function of the fact of
    13        whether it is a cow or a steer or a heifer it is more a
              function of what the processor decides to practice as to
    14        what the fat content of the bird is going to be.
 
    15   Q.   So you do not know if, in general, the ratio of fat to
              lean in cows would be greater or less than beef herds?
    16        A.  In the carcass?  Yes, I do ---
 
    17   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Answer the carcass over all?
              A.  -- I do know in the carcass, yes.  That depends upon
    18        the size of the kidney knob.  The kidney knob depot in a
              cow, particularly in Fresians and in Jerseys, is very,
    19        very large.  That can make up a substantial part of the
              whole of the fat in that particular type of bovine; and,
    20        in general, if that is a well developed depot, let us say,
              because the animal has not been milking well or it has
    21        been barren, or for whatever reason, the dairy cow can be
              quite fat.  In terms of subcutaneous fat, the dairy cow
    22        has very little by comparison with a beef breed.  In terms
              of marbling fat it has very little.
    23
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Is this directed at the welfare of the
    24        animal or what ends up in the packet?
 
    25   MR. MORRIS:  No, this is a, sort of, side issue.
  
    26   MR. RAMPTON:  Could we do without side issues, My Lord?  I have 
              some doubt whether dairy cows have anything to do with the 
    27        argument anyway, but I have left that.   The question is
              how much fat is included by McDonald's in their beef
    28        patties.
 
    29   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is what you are on now?
 
    30   MR. MORRIS:  When I say a "side issue", it is not strictly
              under the ------

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