Day 289 - 29 Oct 96 - Page 32
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2 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. Was there any evidence on that, whether
3 speed would make any difference to that?
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5 MS. STEEL: No, but the point is that if people are putting the
6 birds on the line faster and the line is going faster, then
7 the birds are more likely to be flapping about and
8 therefore less likely to get stunned, you know, if they are
9 -----
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11 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That is the way I thought it would be, and a
12 bird has to flap for less length of time because it passes
13 over the bath more quickly. But did we actually have any
14 evidence about that to say one way or the other?
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16 MS. STEEL: What?
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18 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Whether going quicker or slower increases
19 the risk. I mean, we did have some evidence with regard to
20 pre-stun shocks, and I can see with some other matters one
21 can draw a common sense conclusion.
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23 MS. STEEL: Yes. No, no, the point I am making is that I mean
24 the stunning occurs fairly soon after the birds are put on
25 the line, and if there is an inspection going on and
26 therefore people are taking more care about how they are
27 hanging the birds on the line, they are less likely to be
28 flapping around and missing the stun bath.
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30 MR. JUSTICE BELL: What do I draw that conclusion from? You say
31 that is just common sense, do you?
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33 MS. STEEL: Yes.
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35 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No witness was asked about that, were they,
36 or were they?
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38 MS. STEEL: We asked Dr. Gregory about whether or not people
39 would, you know, try and follow the procedures properly or
40 more carefully if there was an inspection going on, and he
41 said, yes.
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43 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I appreciate that, but no one then went on to
44 ask him: "And if that happened would it be that there would
45 be less flapping or anything else". I am just checking
46 whether there was any evidence on it.
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48 MS. STEEL: I do not think anyone was specifically asked, but
49 I would say that it is a matter of common sense, that if
50 you are charging around in a kind of frantic manner you are
51 more likely to disturb the birds and frighten them than if
52 you are carefully or more carefully pulling them out of the
53 modules and sticking them on the conveyor belt or the
54 shackle line.
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56 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, very well.
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58 MS. STEEL: I mean it is just -- I do not know, we heard
59 evidence about the fact that hanging them upside down
60 causes a period of distress. There is the point about the
