Day 020 - 28 Jul 94 - Page 54


     
     1        is an important welfare consideration when using
              reversible stunning methods?
     2        A.   "... such as head-only stunning", "electrical
              stunning".
     3
         Q.   "... but it is doubtful whether the same applies to
     4        captive bolt stunning.  Using the loss of evoked responses
              as the criterion for effective stunning, it was found that
     5        responses could persist following stunning".  Presumably,
              this is with the captive bolt pistol, yes?
     6        A.  Yes.
 
     7   Q.   " .. but these invariably deteriorated with time and were
              lost within two minutes"?
     8        A.  Yes.
 
     9   Q.   "Furthermore, spontaneous activity from the cortex was
              usually lost within three minutes"?
    10        A.  Yes.
 
    11   Q.   So, does this mean that the cow is gradually losing its
              brain activity over a period of about three minutes?
    12        A.  Yes, be careful -----
 
    13   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Was there pithing in those cases?
              A.  No.  Please beware how you interpret the words "brain
    14        activity".
 
    15   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.  When you said "it is doubtful whether the
              same applies to captive bolt stunning", does that mean
    16        that it is open to debate?
              A.  Where does it say that?
    17
         Q.   In your first sentence.
    18        A.  Thank you.  Could you repeat the question -- sorry,
              I am a bit slow.
    19
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just explain to me, if a captive bolt
    20        stunning is carried out properly, I have assumed that that
              is not reversible?
    21        A.  Correct.
 
    22   Q.   Whereas with head only electric stunning it is?
              A.  Provided it is not accompanied with a cardiac arrest.
    23        So head only electric stunning on its own is not
              accompanied by cardiac arrest.  The electrical stunning
    24        system that we referred to before is a head only system,
              and then it is followed by a second current application
    25        which spans the heart and causes a cardiac arrest.  That
              is how it is used commercially. 
    26 
         MR. MORRIS:  When you say "doubtful", does that mean it is open 
    27        to debate, in your first sentence?
              A.  Yes.  It would only be of importance in the case of
    28        captive bolt stunning where the stun is inadequate, where
              it does not show -- when an animal does not show the
    29        symptoms which were used in this survey to evaluate
              effective stunning.
    30
         Q.   Right.  I think one last point, really, is in plant A in

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