Day 181 - 01 Nov 95 - Page 10
1 means......"
2
3 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I am sorry to interrupt yet again. Can
4 I make one point? You described it as the Wages Council
5 order, which is understandable. (To the witness): You are
6 actually in the order? Yes. As I understand it, the first
7 two pages are an information notice, which are immediately
8 followed by the order itself?
9 A. Yes.
10
11 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, thank you. Carry on.
12
13 MS. STEEL: Just whether you could assist with any further --
14 I mean, I do not know whether you know how exactly "meal"
15 would be interpreted?
16 A. Yes. It is of sufficient quality and quantity. These
17 words actually were laboured over many times in the Wages
18 Councils, because there were concerns reported to the Wages
19 Council by workforce representatives -- that is our job,
20 you know -- over the quality and the quantity of food made
21 available to employees.
22
23 Q. Right.
24 A. It was a clear requirement that they should be
25 sufficient in quality as well as quantity; in other words,
26 a sandwich or a bun would not do. This is supposed to be a
27 meal, and it is supposed to be available during a meal
28 break.
29
30 I can well remember the leader of the employees' side,
31 Fred Cooper from the GMB trade union, I can remember very
32 clearly his references again and again to concerns that
33 this should be what it says it should be; not a snack, not
34 a sandwich, but a meal on duty.
35
36 Q. What about a cooked sandwich in terms of, for example, a
37 burger in a bun but, generally speaking, without
38 vegetables, I think?
39 A. If I may say, my Lord, in my opinion, in the mid-80s
40 the wages inspectors would have been hard pressed to decide
41 whether a burger in a bun would or would not qualify. That
42 is all I can say.
43
44 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That is my reaction, I must say. Again, I am
45 not going to stop you asking Mr. Pearson, but this must be
46 a matter of law, in fact.
47
48 MS. STEEL: No. I just wondered whether he was able -----
49
50 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That means it is for me alone to decide. But
51 I would have thought that -- anyway, there we are.
52
53 One thing I do want to ask: when you said in a meal break,
54 do you mean a paid meal break or just a break given for the
55 purpose of eating a meal?
56 A. Well, whether it were paid or not would depend -----
57
58 Q. It is another matter altogether?
59 A. It would depend on the employment contract.
60
