Day 057 - 29 Nov 94 - Page 52


     
     1        Plaintiffs have stated that these examples are not given to
     2        limit the evidence.  In other words, they may well call
     3        other evidence and make other points than the ones made
     4        here.
     5
     6   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Let me read that through.  Yes.
     7
     8   MS. STEEL:  That answer at the top of page 6 is in answer to 8,
     9        9 and 10 because it is before No. 8 starts.  As I say, it
    10        says that they are not giving the particulars to limit the
    11        evidence which implies that a later stage they may not
    12        bring in extra bits and pieces.  As I understand it, the
    13        whole point of pleading your case is so that the other side
    14        knows what your case is.  That is my first concern where
    15        I do not feel they have given a satisfactory answer to the
    16        question.
    17
    18        I am also worried about on page 7: "The Second Plaintiff
    19        hereby gives notice that in seeking to justify the
    20        contention that the Defendants have been involved in
    21        publishing false statements or lies or untruths, it will
    22        not refer in evidence to allegations by the Defendants
    23        distinct from those in issue in the main action".  I am not
    24        clear whether that means what is in their Statement of
    25        Claim in the main action or whether that is what is in the
    26        whole of the pleadings in the main action.
    27
    28   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I had interpreted it as in the whole of the
    29        pleadings.
    30
    31   MS. STEEL:  If that is the case then that would mean that, well,
    32        that would have implications for discovery as we were
    33        arguing earlier this year where the Plaintiffs have said
    34        they are not providing documents to help us prove our case,
    35        they would now have to provide those documents
    36
    37   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You had better explain that further to me.
    38        What I understand them to say is that there is no evidence
    39        to justify what was said in the leaflet in certain respects
    40        which they complain of, and if at the end of the day there
    41        is no evidence I am to infer from that that you knew there
    42        was no evidence that you were lying. That is part of what
    43        you were saying.
    44
    45   MS. STEEL:  We have been into this before.  At the end of the
    46        day if something is not proved that is not the same as,
    47        well, it is not the same as it is not true and it is also
    48        not the same as we were lying.  But most importantly it is
    49        not the same as saying it was not true.  It may just be
    50        that we were not able to find a witness or something like 
    51        that to prove it to the satisfaction of this court, but 
    52        that would not necessarily mean that it was untrue. 
    53
    54   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Surely your strongest point is that whether
    55        it was actually true or not, you say you believed it was.
    56        Mr. Rampton has apparently got some argument that you can
    57        lie recklessly.
    58
    59   MS. STEEL:  It is also about recklessness.  If the fact of the
    60        matter is that it is in fact true -- I cannot specifically

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