Day 127 - 23 May 95 - Page 32


     
     1        A.  They are, yes.
     2
     3   Q.   In other words, they work less than 39 hours a week; is
     4        that right?
     5        A.  That is right.
     6
     7   Q.   What I am interested in is, how do you inculcate the right
     8        attitude or the right culture about health and safety in
     9        people who may come and work for a few weeks and then go
    10        away again?
    11        A.  Well, part of it is giving them the training from
    12        Day One on health and safety, but, also, part is what their
    13        managers will be saying to them day to day; for example,
    14        when they have rap sessions, when crew get together and
    15        discuss any problems they have, that they are given an
    16        opportunity to talk about safety; again, with crew
    17        meetings, that managers address them about safety and
    18        update them on things like changes in procedure.
    19
    20   Q.   Do you ever come across cases where a manager may be a bit
    21        lax or sloppy, where attitudes and standards in relation to
    22        health and safety may slip in the restaurant generally for
    23        a time; does that happen?
    24        A.  I do not think I could say that it never did happen.
    25        Certainly, in my experience, some managers are so zealous
    26        with safety, and others just take it as part what they do
    27        day to day.  There is that variation, but it is a normal
    28        human being variation.
    29
    30   Q.   Do you recognise that common human failing, if you
    31        like: "Oh well, it is all very well, but it couldn't happen
    32        to me"?
    33        A.  There is a little bit of that, I am afraid.  But,
    34        again, as I have said before, it is something that I,
    35        personally, have suffered from sometimes, and it is very
    36        difficult to get over, particularly when they can quite
    37        easily turn round and say, "Well, up to now it has not
    38        happened."  For anybody that has not come across risk
    39        assessment before, it is a new concept that needs a little
    40        time to explain.
    41
    42   Q.   I will go on in this memo, if I may.
    43
    44        "The company has a policy, and that policy basically
    45        states that if you have not been formally trained to carry
    46        out any work to an electrical system or piece of
    47        equipment 'DO NOT TOUCH IT'.  The law says the same thing.
    48        This includes changing a 13 amp plug, replacing a
    49        fluorescent tube or even the batteries in a torch."
    50 
    51        Pausing there, is that really right, Mrs. Barnes, that the 
    52        law does not allow you to change the batteries in a torch 
    53        unless you are properly qualified?
    54        A.  I think Keith would argue it from a pedantic
    55        standpoint.  I think, in being practical, I doubt that
    56        particular interpretation.
    57
    58   Q.  "There are people in the UK at the moment facing
    59        manslaughter charges for ignoring these relations.  The
    60        company corporate is not liable, individuals are. 'THE

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