Day 035 - 12 Oct 94 - Page 63


     
     1        evidence on Monday, that by the mid-1980s it was, what
     2        I shall say, consensus among American medical scientists
     3        that the associations between diet and colon and breast
     4        cancer were causal in nature.  I come back, therefore, to
     5        the question that I have asked before: If it were so, why
     6        is not this distinguished body of committees saying so?
     7        A.  Allow me to take a look and see what they are saying.
     8
     9   Q.   Would you like to read the text?
    10
    11   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just sit there and I suggest you start at
    12        595 because it does refer to a number of papers, the names
    13        of which will be familiar to you.
    14        A.  Let me make one observation part way through the
    15        reading, if I may?  It is true they are saying in summary,
    16        that there is some inconsistency.  But, if my count is
    17        correct, when they talk about studies linking colorectal
    18        cancer with dietary fat or meat, they list 16 studies that
    19        have shown a positive relationship.  They also say,
    20        however, that some studies that show no relationship and
    21        by my count they have perhaps six of them which they then
    22        qualify by saying that they had -- those studies not
    23        showing a positive correlation usually included narrow
    24        ranges of fat intake, the same problem Willett's study
    25        had. So, one may characterise that as inconsistent.
    26        However, the weight of the evidence certainly bears
    27        notice.
    28
    29   MR. RAMPTON:  Nobody disputes that as a basis for further
    30        research, Dr. Barnard, that is undoubtedly right, but look
    31        and see what it says just below that?
    32        A.  Yes, I am just coming to that.
    33
    34   Q.   The very next sentence.
    35        A.  Yes, the next sentence, the fact that there are other
    36        dietary factors, particularly protein and calories, that
    37        correlate not only with cancer, but also with fat suggests
    38        this is the reason why many people in writing dietary
    39        brochures will say such language as a diet high in fat,
    40        animal products, sodium, sugar, these things tend to
    41        travel together.  Meat contains only protein and fat as
    42        macro-nutrients.  It contains no carbohydrates, so the two
    43        do tend to correlation together and because fat is very
    44        concentrated in calories the calories cannot help but
    45        correlate.
    46
    47   Q.   I think your statement, Dr. Barnard, I know it is late and
    48        you are probably way and, anyway, you spoke quickly, it is
    49        probably a bit unfair, but it also contains considerable
    50        quantities of minerals, does it not? 
    51        A.  Those are not macro-nutrients.  Forgive me, I went 
    52        over the word rather quickly, macro-nutrients. 
    53
    54   Q.   I know what a macro-nutrient is, but nevertheless an
    55        intake of certain minerals is essential to human health?
    56        A.  I was not getting into that.
    57
    58   Q.   But that is right?
    59        A.  One certainly does need minerals, yes.
    60

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