Day 070 - 20 Dec 94 - Page 37
1 have a witness and because I have said on previous
2 occasions that I do not require the allegation to be
3 pleaded, I regard what Ms. Hovey says in her witness
4 statement as a pleading. There will be proper evidence and
5 discovery to deal with the allegations which she makes in
6 her witness statement. But that is the way it works.
7
8 What is not permissible is for the Defendants, by pulling
9 some kind of lever, a hopeful, optimistic lever, that they
10 should then expect a whole lot of goodies to spill out of
11 the cupboard. That is not the way the system works. With
12 respect, this is a misconceived application.
13
14 MR. MORRIS: I do not think Mr. Rampton appreciates what I see
15 as the law in this area. First of all, in the
16 Counterclaim, they chose to defend the Counterclaim, which
17 they did not have to, and one the reasons they defended the
18 Counterclaim was on the grounds that we knew the material
19 was lies because of the Plaintiffs' conduct of the case,
20 the pleadings, the matters, the issues that have been
21 brought up.
22
23 Some of their witnesses have brought in statements about
24 conditions in slaughterhouses, how they check them, what
25 their policies are; and they chose to do that. However,
26 when we questioned them, asking for the names of the
27 slaughterhouses in this country, they refused to give the
28 names, which means -- well, so for a start, under the
29 Counterclaim, we are entitled to discovery on any of the
30 matters in the main case which the Plaintiffs are relying
31 on as evidence that we know that our claims are all lies.
32
33 So, in any event, we are entitled to discovery. But,
34 secondly, in terms of evidence which we are entitled to
35 bring, which includes cross-examination of their witnesses,
36 evidence has been given in court about slaughterhouses.
37 The Plaintiffs could have said: "Well, what happens in the
38 slaughterhouses is absolutely nothing to do with us. We do
39 not care about the conditions of the animals. It does not
40 worry us. We are not going to bring any evidence or ask
41 questions on it and argue with yourself on that matter."
42 But they have not; they have relied on the fact they have
43 policies and audits, and whatever.
44
45 Indeed, they have even called an expert witness who visited
46 a slaughterhouse, although of course we do not know the
47 name of the slaughterhouse that he visited.
48
49 So, it is a completely biased situation where the
50 Plaintiffs can make all kinds of claims that we cannot
51 substantiate, that we cannot test or substantiate.
52
53 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, that is completely untrue. The identity
54 of the slaughterhouses which were visited by Dr. Gregory
55 are very well known to the Defendants. I do not mind
56 revealing what they are, if the Defendants have missed
57 them, because the witnesses from those slaughterhouses are
58 coming to give evidence in court, who met Dr. Gregory.
59 There is Sun Valley, Bowsons in Norfolk, and Midland Meat
60 Packers in Milton Keynes -----
