Day 070 - 20 Dec 94 - Page 50


     
     1        be questioned about it.
     2
     3        We feel that it is not something that should keep being
     4        said in front of witnesses.  That is why we wanted it left
     5        to today rather than saying it in front of Mr. Gonzalez
     6        when he was here.
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I will bear what you have said in mind.
     9        I think it was me more often than Mr. Rampton.
    10
    11   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, I have to say that when I think it
    12        appropriate to do so, whether it be a hypothetical question
    13        or a question repeated, as often as not, to which the
    14        witness has already indicated, sometimes giving reasons,
    15        that he does not know the answer and cannot be expected to
    16        know the answer, I am afraid I shall continue to intervene.
    17
    18   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  My recollection is that when you intervened
    19        it was after the witness had already said something to the
    20        effect:  "I do not know".
    21
    22   MR. RAMPTON:  Indeed.
    23
    24   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I am conscious that I on a number of
    25        occasions -- I will continue to do so if I think it right
    26        to do so -- to explain to a witness who is trying to be
    27        helpful but is clearly beginning to talk about matters
    28        which they do not know of, not to hesitate, to say:  "I do
    29        not know".  Because I have been concerned with some
    30        witnesses on both sides in this case that, in their anxiety
    31        to help, they have launched out into areas they do not
    32        really know about.
    33
    34   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, can I say something about that?  I am
    35        conscious that we are jolly nearly finished now, I hope
    36        and, therefore, I am not wasting time; we will not have to
    37        come back tomorrow -- whatever Mr. Morris says, I shall say
    38        this, if I may:  There are two reasons why, in my
    39        respectful submission, it is desirable that your Lordship
    40        should give indications of that kind.  The first is, of
    41        course, it saves time; the second is, and one noticed it
    42        particularly when Dr. Gomez Gonzalez was being
    43        cross-examined, the witness does have a temptation to
    44        expatiate upon matters which are plainly beyond his
    45        knowledge, the ancient history of McDonald's rainforest
    46        policy, for example.  The danger is, not that your Lordship
    47        will be mislead by this -- that is not a danger at all --
    48        but Mr. Morris or Ms. Steel may take the answers as being
    49        evidence, which they are not, and waste an awful lot of
    50        time preparing their closing speeches, for example, on a 
    51        false basis.  It is much safer if the witness is 
    52        constrained to say:  "I simply do not know; I was not 
    53        there".
    54
    55   MR. MORRIS:  I think if I can say something on this?  I think
    56        there are two things:  Witnesses can be encouraged to say
    57        if they do not know something, to say so, but they should
    58        also be encouraged that if they do know something about
    59        something, they should answer the question and not avoid
    60        answering the question.  As far as we are concerned, that

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