Day 103 - 14 Mar 95 - Page 51


     
     1        as the external carotid and the jugular, the bird is not
     2        going to live very long.  That is why I find it a rather
     3        academic argument.
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Can you just pause?  Can I make sure
     6        I understand what your case is on this?  It is challenged
     7        by the Defendants that, provided you have got even one
     8        carotid artery still intact, be it external or internal,
     9        blood will still be getting to the brain.  So, the brain
    10        still has a supply of oxygenated blood?
    11        A.  Yes.
    12
    13   Q.   But it will bleed from one artery which has been cut, one
    14        external ---
    15        A.  Yes.
    16
    17   Q.   -- artery?  Also you would say that it will not live very
    18        long if the cord has been cut.  Plus, Dr. Gregory's tests
    19        found no sign of consciousness, in fact, save for the eye
    20        reflex test which he rather passed off as being any sign of
    21        sensible consciousness.  That is really your case, is it?
    22        A.  Yes.
    23
    24   MS. STEEL:  When you say they will not survive for any length of
    25        time, what are you talking about?
    26        A.  Well, we have a bleeding time which is something like
    27        one minute 20 seconds.
    28
    29   Q.   So they could survive for that long?
    30        A.  And during that time they bleed out, and the important
    31        thing is that they are dead then when they have finished
    32        that bleeding process.
    33
    34   Q.   So they could survive for one minute 20 seconds?
    35        A.  Yes, but they would be unconscious.
    36
    37   Q.   Yes, they may not be unconscious for all of that time?
    38        A.  Well, I maintain they are.
    39
    40   Q.   If this is really not necessary, can you explain why the
    41        codes of practice state:  "Current research indicates that
    42        in systems which do not produce cardiac arrest at stunning,
    43        the most humane method of producing rapid brain death is to
    44        cut both carotid arteries"?
    45        A.  What I have said was that we have now identified a
    46        machine which will do that.
    47
    48   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, but what is their worry, about risk
    49        of  ---
    50        A.  I think they are concerned --- 
    51 
    52   Q.   -- if you do not cut both? 
    53        A.  -- I think the main thing is the concern to ensure that
    54        bleed out is as quick as possible.  So, that if you sever
    55        both arteries by a ventral cut you will get a quicker bleed
    56        out and, therefore, quicker death by that method.
    57
    58   MS. STEEL:  Quicker brain failure?
    59        A.  Death.
    60

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