Day 105 - 16 Mar 95 - Page 62


     
     1
     2   Q.   That leads me to the next part.
     3
     4   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Does that mean that it is still not against
     5        the law not to have condemned and detained room chill?
     6        A.  If the authority, and it would be MAFF in this case
     7        because they are the actual licensing authority, if they
     8        allowed an abattoir operator as part of his work plan to
     9        complete his refrigeration by, say, the end of 1995, to
    10        that extent it would not be a statutory requirement if the
    11        derogation has been given.
    12
    13   Q.   But the regulation still does not say absolutely as of now
    14        all condemned and detained rooms should be chilled?
    15        A.  The regulation says it.  I am sure this is the right
    16        way round to put it.  It is clear in the regulation but
    17        there is a supervening regulation which allows derogation
    18        of certain structural ----
    19
    20   Q.   Yes, very well.
    21
    22   MS. STEEL:  Before we carry on, I just wanted to clarify
    23        something which the witness was saying, as far as
    24        I recollect, something about "a split when a requirement
    25        between the EC and domestic", and Mr. Rampton did not let
    26        him finish the answer, and said:  "One lot came in October
    27        1992; and the other lot in January 1993".  But, in fact,
    28        earlier on Mr. Bennett said that the EC Directive, "it had
    29        been an EEC licensing requirement since 1987".
    30
    31   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  These are matters of law, so anything which
    32        any witness says may or may not be right, it must be
    33        capable of ascertainment.  I can see you might have a
    34        directive, within a reasonable period of time national
    35        government has to bring that in.  What they will do is pass
    36        an Act of Parliament which gives the power to make
    37        regulations.  There may already be one. Your regulations
    38        are made.  They have a time when they come into effect and
    39        you are saying, with no disrespect, Mr. Bennett, rightly or
    40        wrongly, you may have regulations which postpone the coming
    41        in to a date which has previously been imposed?
    42        A.  Yes.
    43
    44   Q.   All this leaves me at the moment not knowing whether it is
    45        required at the moment by the legislation or not, but that
    46        is a matter of law to be ascertained from the appropriate
    47        provisions rather than the witness box, is it not?
    48
    49   MS. STEEL:  He did actually say "it had been a licensing
    50        requirement since certainly since 1987". 
    51 
    52   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  My point is, it does not matter -- let us 
    53        hope Mr. Bennett gets it right -- but these are matters
    54        which must be ascertained from the provisions themselves
    55        rather than from a witness in the witness box.
    56
    57   MS. STEEL:  That is fine but Mr. Rampton is getting them from
    58        the witness in the witness box and it contradicts his
    59        earlier answer.
    60

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