Day 070 - 20 Dec 94 - Page 38
1
2 MS. STEEL: The fourth one?
3
4 MR. RAMPTON: What fourth one?
5
6 MS. STEEL: He visited two cattle slaughterhouses.
7
8 MR. RAMPTON: Not that is the subject of a report from
9 McDonald's.
10
11 MS. STEEL: Yes, yes.
12
13 MR. RAMPTON: Well, i am sorry, I am not going to reveal it.
14
15 MS. STEEL: The point is that I believe we are entitled to test
16 the witnesses' evidence in the main action.
17
18 MR. JUSTICE BELL: At the moment, I am with you on that. In so
19 far you can show me that someone in a disclosed statement
20 says -- because at the moment I can only take the disclosed
21 statement as an indication that the evidence is going to be
22 given -- that, "I visited two other slaughterhouses and the
23 practices there were this, that and the other", then I am
24 for you. But at the moment I am against you on the
25 generality that you are entitled to know the names of all
26 the slaughterhouses, so that you can then make enquiries.
27 I will give reasons for that. But I am for you in so far
28 as, directly or indirectly, you can show that evidence has
29 been given or that it is anticipated that it will be given
30 that there is -- it was the example I tried to give a few
31 minutes ago in argument, where I said that if a witness for
32 the Plaintiffs says: "There is an abattoir in
33 Gloucestershire", just by way of demonstration of the
34 point, "and what happens there is as follows" -- then, in
35 my view, you are entitled to identification of that.
36
37 I propose to give a short judgment -- unless you have got
38 anything further to say in relation to that -- to the
39 effect I have indicated; and it is up to you to hunt out
40 where, either in the evidence which has already been given
41 or the evidence which it is anticipated will be given by
42 reference to a disclosed statement, something to that
43 effect is said.
44
45 MS. STEEL: Or evidence given in court.
46
47 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. But what I would be unsympathetic about
48 is for you to hunt out of your own initiative in
49 cross-examination: "Have you been to any other
50 slaughterhouse? What did you see there", and then ask for
51 the identity, because I would think that was just a ruse.
52 I am not suggesting you would do that, but were you to do
53 that, I would treat that as a ruse to try to get the
54 identity, when, in fact, Mr. Rampton had not led any
55 evidence about it or given any indication that he was going
56 to lead any evidence about it. Do you understand?
57
58 MS. STEEL: I understand what you are saying. In terms of the
59 Counterclaim, Mr. Rampton did just say that his Defence to
60 Counterclaim is, in effect, this: "What you have said in
