Day 164 - 26 Sep 95 - Page 10
1 kind of organisation and, query, whether you can argue:
2 "Well, it is still unsatisfactory and that is the end
3 result of employing a lot of people who are very young".
4
5 But your other point, I suppose, in relation to this is
6 they have never got rid of a franchisee when there has been
7 a violation. I have to weigh the evidence in relation to
8 that, how easy that is to (inaudible) with lots of other
9 factors.
10
11 There may be two factors there, whether you get a general
12 leave to amend in the form you want, or whether you get
13 leave to amend just in relation to an allegation that they
14 have never got rid of a franchisee for a child violation
15 where, I have to say, if I granted you that leave, I would
16 not be giving discovery in relation to it. You would just
17 be relying -- that would be far too onerous -- upon such
18 answers as you got, for instance, from Mr. Stein.
19
20 MR. MORRIS: That is the last point, No. 12, but -----
21
22 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, I mean, 12 might cover that, if that is
23 the way my mind was going, having considered all the
24 arguments.
25
26 MR. MORRIS: Yes, but we would certainly say that all the
27 specific cases are relevant in terms of being part of the
28 picture.
29
30 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. Let us suppose there is some merit in
31 that. Where are the ones where you have actually got a
32 specific allegation there? You say (5) you have. What
33 troubles me about (3) or (4) and (4), you see, they are
34 very general -- you would say (5) you have; you would say
35 (6) you have, (7), (8), (9), (10) and (11).
36
37 MR. MORRIS: I think (3) and (4) are, if you like, put in the
38 context of describing the significance of specific
39 violations which are occurring and also ones that have been
40 specified. I think in terms of when you lay out pleadings
41 the context is important and that puts down our position of
42 what the context is.
43
44 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You can argue context. I will give serious
45 thought to (3) and (4) but you can argue context. As
46 I have said time and time again in this case, some things
47 you do not need evidence to support. You will not have to
48 persuade me that it is important that employers observe the
49 law so for as young employees are concerned.
50
51 MR. MORRIS: But also, for example, on the lack of inspectors
52 and the lack of a practice of finding people, making it
53 difficult to identify -----
54
55 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Where is your evidence of that because you
56 will not get that from McDonald's by discovery,
57 interrogatories or any other way. What is going to be your
58 evidence?
59
60 MR. MORRIS: We can get the evidence ourselves from those
