Day 181 - 01 Nov 95 - Page 48


     
     1        have represented employees who might be arguing that they
     2        have been dismissed for trade union activity, generally, in
     3        those cases was their dismissal reason explicitly stated as
     4        trade union activity, or was some other reason given?
     5        A.  Well, I am not able to really answer that question,
     6        I am afraid, because I did not generally, in the run of my
     7        duties as a full-time officer, have access, direct access,
     8        to those kind of exit survey questions.  If you would be
     9        referring, however, to an industrial tribunal application,
    10        then, obviously, it would be a matter of contention, you
    11        know, that the employee would claim dismissal wholly or
    12        primarily related to trade union membership.  But in all
    13        those cases that I dealt with, the respondent would deny
    14        that.
    15
    16   Q.   It was never the case, then, that there were a clear cut
    17        admission by an employer that the reason for dismissal was
    18        for trade union activity?
    19        A.  Not a clear cut admission.  But, in the relatively few
    20        cases of interim relief that I dealt with, there were one
    21        or two successes where it was established, despite an
    22        initial resistance on the part of the employer that that
    23        was the reason for dismissal -- if you are talking about
    24        dismissals.
    25
    26   Q.   Yes.  Really, the point I am trying to get at is that a
    27        worker would only have an automatic right to a claim for
    28        unfair dismissal regarding trade union activity if the
    29        employer had actually stipulated that as the grounds for
    30        dismissal; would that be correct; otherwise, they would
    31        have to go through the rigmarole of trying to prove that
    32        that was the reason?
    33        A.  I think the answer to that would be yes.  But,
    34        essentially, in any case, what you call the rigmarole, the
    35        case itself would still have to be heard, but it would be
    36        that much easier on the part of the employee, obviously, if
    37        the employer had admitted already that, you know, that was
    38        the reason.
    39
    40   MR. JUSTICE BELL: You are not agreeing that -- it depends what
    41        Ms. Steel means by an automatic right.  As I understand it,
    42        there are circumstances in which the employee can produce
    43        evidence, if one is looking for interim relief, which
    44        points so strongly towards it being for union activities
    45        that, whatever the Company says, interim relief will be
    46        given; that is a matter for the tribunal to decide.
    47        A.  Yes, you are right.
    48
    49   Q.   If you are not looking for interim relief, but looking for
    50        compensation in due course, then the tribunal is charged 
    51        with the responsibility of doing its best to get to the 
    52        truth of the matter, whatever the respondent employer says? 
    53        A.  Absolutely; and of course -----
    54
    55   Q.   I mean, you may hold a personal view, and other people may,
    56        as to whether it is easy or difficult to do that.  I would
    57        be surprised if it would not varied according to the
    58        tribunal you get.
    59        A.  Yes, it does.
    60

Prev Next Index