Day 035 - 12 Oct 94 - Page 59
1 A. Excuse me. I think I may have spoken too quickly.
2 Would you mind my referring to the Surgeon General's
3 report again, that section on case-control studies because
4 that comment there may be helpful?
5
6 Q. Yes, please do.
7 A. Your saying "case-control" I found myself thinking
8 cohort.
9
10 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Are you looking at a particular page?
11 A. I am looking at the Surgeon General's Report, pages
12 196 and 197. The comments I mentioned earlier where I was
13 saying that overall it had not been supported I was
14 thinking about cohort studies. The comments I want to
15 make regarding case-control studies were simply those
16 comments that I made yesterday, where I think we went in
17 some elaborate detail on those studies which did show a
18 relationship between total fat and breast cancer. Perhaps
19 there is no need to repeat myself or to repeat what the
20 Surgeon General's findings were. But it is fair to say
21 that Walter Willett has raised a minority view suggesting
22 that he does not like the interpretation which the Surgeon
23 General has, and I guess most others would agree with.
24
25 MR. RAMPTON: Dr. Barnard, the position is this perhaps, and
26 I am always open to correction by his Lordship when I say
27 things like this, what we are trying to do in this court
28 is to build a jigsaw and to see what is the overall
29 conclusion which should be drawn when the jigsaw is
30 completed.
31
32 If you are telling me that really we should put aside what
33 Dr. Willett says on this topic, why, then, for your
34 purposes there is no point my taking you through what he
35 says, that it is not a suitable a piece of the jigsaw, and
36 we can read it for ourselves and make up our minds in due
37 course whether it is or whether it is not. If every time
38 that he says something you do not like, you are going to
39 say, well, he is out on a limb or he is a minority view,
40 then there is no point our going through it. I do not
41 mean that in any way offensively, but if that is your true
42 position, please tell me now and can I put this study away
43 and go on to something else?
44 A. Dr. Willett's view is a minority view, and if you wish
45 to set it aside that would be fine by me. If you think
46 there is merit in going through it, I am happy to. Most
47 people, I do not think, agree with him.
48
49 Q. No, because then all I am doing is making speeches. If
50 you are going to say that we should not pay attention to
51 what Dr. Willett says, then we will have to make up our
52 own minds whether you are right or wrong about that. But
53 if you are not willing to accept his position, namely,
54 that there is no satisfactory evidence upon which to base
55 a proposition of causal relationship between breast
56 cancer, colon cancer and diet, then I will pass on to
57 something else. Is that right? Have I misstated your
58 position?
59 A. Having read Dr. Willett's comments on breast cancer
60 and the role of fat in it, I must say I share the
