Day 052 - 21 Nov 94 - Page 59
1 need be we will deal with this at the end of tomorrow."
2
3 My Lord, we heard not another word which is why it is not
4 our intention, unless your Lordship orders us to do so, to
5 call Mr. Van Erp in person.
6
7 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Or to have him read because the arithmetic
8 can be done anyway.
9
10 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, I suppose it can. He is the subject of a
11 Civil Evidence Act Notice. Had a counter notice been
12 served within the proper time, they could not have avoided
13 calling him unless he had been ill, but the Defendants are
14 now so far out of time, despite that encouragement from
15 your Lordship on 27th June, that I would resist any
16 suggestion that he should be brought to court now.
17
18 If the Defendants want your Lordship to exercise your
19 Lordship's discretion now to allow them to serve a counter
20 notice out of time, why then, they must give your Lordship
21 the reason why that discretion should be exercised in that
22 way and then I can argue about it. But simply to say they
23 want him to be called now, frankly, is not good enough as
24 he is just a numbers man.
25
26 MS. STEEL: We want to ask him about the calculations and about
27 the figures. It is a similar situation with various other
28 witnesses for the Plaintiffs that have given evidence about
29 figures and numbers. When you actually cross-examine them
30 it turns out that they say something other than what they
31 actually look like they are saying; for example, the
32 figures on the amount of CFC's used by the Plaintiffs --I
33 cannot remember the name of the witness.
34
35 MR. JUSTICE BELL: My feeling, Mr. Rampton, I mean argue it if
36 you wish, but if it is just a calculation it is surely one
37 we can do ourselves. If it is more than a calculation,
38 then if he is in the country he ought to come along rather
39 than just have his statement read. If you decide it is
40 just a calculation and, therefore, you do not want to
41 adduce his evidence at all because you can put some sums on
42 a sheet of paper and I can check them through myself, that
43 is one thing; but if you want to adduce his evidence if he
44 is in this country, then surely he ought to come. It may
45 be irritating that the notice has not been given in time.
46 It may be wrong that it has not been given in time.
47
48 MR. RAMPTON: If there is some good reason why he should be here
49 then, of course. It is irritating. It is irritating for
50 this particular reason as a matter of fact, that I would
51 like his figures to be before the court before
52 Mr. Mallinson gives evidence, and because Mr. Mallinson
53 naturally enough not being a McDonald's person or a Persico
54 person (Mr. van Erp is Persico) cannot give direct evidence
55 about it.
56
57 MR. JUSTICE BELL: If can I do the sum, surely Mr. Mallinson
58 could.
59
60 MR. RAMPTON: It may be. I have taken on board what your
