Day 023 - 13 Sep 94 - Page 04


     
     1        know, it is not something I keep in my thoughts every day
     2        of the week, sort of thing, but certainly animals did
     3        inhale cigarette smoke, yes.
     4
     5   Q.   Right.
     6        A.  That was another factor in the evidence which was
     7        accumulated to incriminate cigarettes in the causation of
     8        lung cancer.
     9
    10   Q.   But you are not aware of the studies where they did not
    11        actually get cancer?
    12        A.  The trouble with any experiment -- I am not aware of
    13        these but, you know, assuming experiments were conducted
    14        and lung cancers did not develop, no system is absolutely
    15        full-proof.  You will have -- it is the body of evidence
    16        that one accumulates which gives you an indication of
    17        whether there is a relationship between X and Y.  It is
    18        not just one individual experiment.  That is what I have
    19        been saying about the matters we are discussing.  You
    20        cannot just rely on one publication to say that is
    21        absolutely right; it is a question of the body of evidence
    22        and the consistency of the evidence which is responsible.
    23
    24        So, even if one experiment with cigarette smoking and
    25        animals did not produce lung cancer, that would not
    26        necessarily mean to say there was not a relationship.  It
    27        would be what the overall body of evidence showed that
    28        would be important.
    29
    30   Q.   Yes, but you are saying that, you know, I do not know, you
    31        believe the results of experiments where tar is painted on
    32        the skin, despite the fact that there seemed to be quite
    33        apparent difficulties in comparisons in terms of dosage,
    34        you know, other similar things to what you were
    35        criticising yesterday?
    36        A.  This is true of all animal experiments and it is what
    37        people acknowledge.  This is a generally acknowledged fact
    38        that animal systems are different from human systems.  The
    39        animals themselves are different because they are
    40        specially bred, as I mentioned yesterday, and obviously
    41        the exposure that is carried out in an experiment is
    42        different from that which people are exposed to during
    43        their normal life.
    44
    45        What animal experiments can do is actually provide
    46        pointers and suggestions; they do not necessarily give you
    47        absolute categorical proof that something is related to
    48        another.
    49
    50   Q.   You say you are completely convinced of the links between 
    51        smoking and lung cancer.  I am not trying to argue that 
    52        there is not a link, but I am trying to get at the reasons 
    53        why you are so convinced.
    54        A.  It is just the overwhelming and consistent evidence.
    55
    56   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  From various sources and various kinds of
    57        investigation?
    58        A.  That is correct.
    59
    60   Q.   Of which the painting on of tar is one?

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