Day 198 - 08 Dec 95 - Page 41


     
     1        I do not see any point in coming back at 2 o'clock just to
     2        have half an hour's of Civil Evidence Act witnesses, but at
     3        some time, either on Monday or Tuesday, if the witnesses
     4        for those days finish early, we can read those three
     5        witnesses and deal with what the agenda should be for
     6        Friday.
     7
     8   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes, my Lord.  As there are four minutes official
     9        time left, can I just ask your Lordship, it sounds
    10        impertinent pertinent, but I am a little bit concerned
    11        about what your Lordship said yesterday about my use of the
    12        transcripts in cross-examination.  I am not sure that
    13        I quite understood what your Lordship does and does not
    14        wish me to do.
    15
    16        The reason I did what I did was, first, because I thought
    17        it fairer to do so, secondly, because I had
    18        (Mrs. Brinley-Codd reminded me) said that is what I would
    19        do at the time when we withdrew the transcripts and, third,
    20        and perhaps most powerfully, because I was reminded (I have
    21        the most awful memory) that in the course of argument in
    22        the Court of Appeal Sir Roger Parker said that is what I
    23        would have to do.  My Lord, I am in your Lordship's hands
    24         -----
    25
    26   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Actually put the transcript?
    27
    28   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes.  "If you want to refer to the transcript in
    29        cross-examination you have to give copies" which, I must
    30        say, struck me as being the fair thing to do.  My Lord, I
    31        am not saying that your Lordship is bound by that or
    32        anything like that.  I just want some guidance, really,
    33        from your Lordship about how your Lordship thinks it best
    34        to do it, as a matter of fairness.  Either I can do what
    35        I did once yesterday and was then restrained by your
    36        Lordship from proceeding with it, or I cannot do it at all
    37        or I can do it on a different basis.
    38
    39   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  I think what troubled me, and it may
    40        not have been a very carefully thought out objection which
    41        I made, is where one ends up putting, say, two sheets of
    42        transcript to a witness, and I wonder whether what Sir
    43        Roger Parker had in mind was that if there was going to be
    44        extensive cross-examination on what had previously been
    45        said, then the whole transcript of that witness's evidence
    46        should be produced.
    47
    48   MR. RAMPTON:  It is perfectly possible.  I was not called on so
    49        he did not say it to me.
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I just felt uncomfortable if a couple of 
    52        sheets at a time, which are only part of the transcript, 
    53        come forward.  I would be perfectly content, unless and
    54        until any objection is raised, you have got the transcript,
    55        use it by all means.  Just put to the witness:  "Do you
    56        remember saying that?" which is what we came to.  When
    57        I think about it, there is nothing very rational about
    58        doing that rather than the way you propose to do it --
    59        I just felt more comfortable with it.
    60

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