Day 036 - 13 Oct 94 - Page 26


     
     1        you are quite correct, the use of animal fat in many
     2        Mediterranean countries is lower and, to some extent,
     3        compensated for by vegetable oils such as the
     4        monounsaturated oils, particularly olive.
     5
     6   Q.   When you say "animals" you do not include fish; you mean
     7        four footed animals?
     8        A.  I guess if we were to compare, say, Britain with -----
     9
    10   Q.   Greece?
    11        A. - with Greece, one would be particularly comparing a
    12        country where there is much more use of beef to one where
    13        there is much more use of olive oil.
    14
    15   Q.   The Greeks have, I believe this to be right, one of the --
    16        it has already been said in court, I think -- one of the
    17        highest rates of longevity of any European country, do you
    18        know?
    19        A.  Their overall longevity is high.
    20
    21   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Sorry, we have not had the comparable
    22        exercise with an ovo-lacto vegetarian?
    23        A.  In general terms, when one looks at fat intake, it in
    24        general is lowest for vegans, moderate for ovo-lacto
    25        compared to omnivores or what sometimes people refer to as
    26        ovo-lacto-pesco-pollo vegetarians.
    27
    28   Q.   Fish and chicken, I suspect?
    29        A.  The problem we have is that these characterisations --
    30        there have been no studies, to my knowledge.
    31
    32   Q.   Can you give me any help at all on what a typical
    33        ovo-lacto vegetarian diet might contain?
    34        A.  It may well contain somewhere along the lines of 25
    35        per cent of its calories as fat, but, in many cases, it
    36        has been well over 30, regrettably, which has made
    37        research of that population not as easy as it might
    38        otherwise be; in many cases it can be close to 40.
    39
    40   MR. MORRIS:  Could I make a helpful suggestion -- he is asked
    41        about the saturated fat content, is that relevant?
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Can you do that or not?
    44        A.  Well, of a vegan diet the saturated fat content would
    45        be dramatically lower regardless of the total fat content.
    46
    47   Q.   What would it be?
    48        A.  Well, it would be difficult again to say with
    49        precision, but a typical figure might be something on the
    50        order of 5 per cent of calories or even less.  It depends 
    51        on the type of oil.  For example, to follow up what we 
    52        were talking about earlier, say, olive oil; olive oil is 
    53        87 per cent unsaturated, but 13 per cent saturated.  If we
    54        take canola oil ----.
    55
    56   Q.   I do not want to get too bogged down.  We have been
    57        banding around figures, not banding around -- I have been
    58        reading figures like 30, 40, 47, and it is very difficult
    59        for me to get a measure.  That is why I am asking this.
    60        So, if we take your typical it would be about 5 per cent;

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