Day 256 - 04 Jun 96 - Page 77
1 mean, virtually all of the countries here are really high
2 fat diets. So, you are comparing, you know, people
3 consuming high fat diets with people consuming very high
4 fat diets.
5
6 MR. RAMPTON: We have got Greece though, have we not? That is
7 very high fat. It is five down, is it not? Their rates of
8 mortality from coronary heart disease are about as low as
9 the French. Do you see that?
10 A. Yes, but it could be much lower, in fact, if they did
11 not consume so much fat, compared to China.
12
13 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, but when you say virtually all the
14 countries here are consuming high fat diets, what
15 conclusion or view was that taking you to with regard to
16 these various figures?
17 A. Well, basically what it suggests is that, going back to
18 the dietary guidelines point of view again, reducing fat
19 intake down to about 30 per cent of calories consumed is
20 not going to do much. We are going to see more (inaudible)
21 here and there are all sorts of reasons to see the real
22 reduction, the substantial reductions in cancers and heart
23 disease and the like, we are going to have to go lower than
24 30 per cent fat. Once you get to 30 per cent fat you are
25 really, basically, exhausted and we are going beyond the
26 -----
27
28 MR. RAMPTON: You are what?
29 A. Exhausted; you have exhausted the relationship that
30 otherwise exists. In other words, you are sort of going up
31 like this, you are plateauing, if you will.
32
33 Q. Are you suggesting that more than 30 per cent of energy
34 from fat, the relationship between fat and disease, ceases
35 to be linear?
36 A. Yes, it appears to be. Well, it is much less
37 significant.
38
39 Q. According to these charts, if they are anything like right,
40 in fact, one should go on up to well over 50 per cent and
41 then one's rates of mortality from heart disease would
42 start to descend very sharply, would they not? Is that
43 possible?
44 A. No, it is not possible and that is what these data have
45 shown. I simply -- I mean, I would really have to sit down
46 and look at these data, where they came from, and why they
47 are presented in this fashion. I do not believe them.
48
49 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That is fair enough because you have only
50 just had them put to you.
51
52 MR. RAMPTON: I understand. I do not take any blame for this
53 because -----
54 A. Has this been published?
55
56 Q. Yes, it comes from that, which is number 46 in the series.
57
58 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It appears in various parts in here and it
59 has all been transferred on to one sheet for easy reference
60 in court.
