Day 107 - 24 Mar 95 - Page 35
1 A. Campylobacter presents enormous difficulties to the
2 extent that even after all these years we are still really
3 uncertain as to where the primary sources and the primary
4 mechanisms of transmission are. Staphylococcus presents
5 less difficulty. The strain typing and the genetic typing,
6 techniques we have, enable us to be fairly specific usually
7 in identifying and tracking down sources. They are very
8 often human beings working in the environment. Perfringens
9 are so rare these days and it is so ubiquitous, you do not
10 actually, you know, worry about sources. Usually, you
11 are more concerned about the mechanisms by which it gave
12 rise to food poisoning.
13
14 Listeriosis is giving considerable problems
15 epidemiologically, very considerable problems, in tracking
16 down sources for the same reason roughly of salmonella, is
17 because it so widespread in the environment that you are
18 spoilt for choice. Sometimes it is very difficult to pin
19 it down -- not sometimes, very often.
20
21 Q. Going back to the reassurance provided by the routine
22 checks?
23 A. Yes.
24
25 Q. You have done, we have heard evidence that I think,
26 I cannot remember the detail, that internal temperatures
27 are taken three times a day?
28 A. Yes, that is my understanding.
29
30 Q. Would that reassure you that the burgers throughout the day
31 -- would that give you any information? What information
32 would that give you, the result of an internal temperature
33 check on a burger three times a day?
34 A. It has some validity, one cannot dismiss it altogether,
35 unlike the microbiological testings where it is extremely
36 dismissive. They will not get the results wrong all the
37 time. The equipment is not subject to wild frequent
38 fluctuations. So, therefore, by and large, as a routine
39 basic check, it is of some value. I would prefer to see on
40 top of that perhaps more thorough checks such as, say,
41 wiring up equipment, permanent monitoring of certain test
42 equipment to give online, continuous monitoring, or perhaps
43 even (and it is an observation that one could make) one
44 would be more comforted if there were, in fact, more
45 reliance on mechanical systems rather than manual systems.
46
47 Q. Can you just elaborate on that?
48 A. Well, I mentioned it earlier, that human beings are
49 prone to error. This is inevitable, inescapable. The more
50 human beings you have in an operation and the more
51 times you do that operation, the greater the chance of
52 failure. This I refer to in paragraph 21.
53
54 Q. You refer to "inherently unhygienic and fragile"?
55 A. This is precisely the point. It is a very fragile
56 system.
57
58 Q. Can you explain?
59 A. It is reliant, essentially, as we have seen going
60 through the food chain, from the animal onwards, the
