Day 061 - 05 Dec 94 - Page 52


     
     1
     2   Q.   Dr. Gregory said, as far as I recall, that the stunning and
     3        killing methods at Sun Valley did not comply with the
     4        government's codes of practice and might lead to distress
     5        and pain to the birds.  This was, as far as I remember,
     6        regarding the throat-cutting technique used which he said
     7        he was surprised about.  Do you know of any warning that
     8        you gave to Sun Valley -----
     9
    10   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, I am sorry, this is not good enough.
    11        Ms. Steel, if may use one of Mr. Morris' phrases, put her
    12        foot in it when she tried this a moment ago.  Mr. Morris
    13        has really got to give chapter and verse so we can check
    14        whether Dr. Gregory did say what Mr. Morris is representing
    15        to the witness that he said.  If Mr. Morris is going to put
    16        a question about Sun Valley, let him do so.  If he is going
    17        to represent the evidence of another witness, then he has
    18        to do so accurately with chapter and verse, with respect.
    19
    20   MS. STEEL:   Can I just say that Mr. Rampton was saying that
    21        I was misquoting Mr. Gregory.  I did actually ask him on
    22        page 8 of July 27th:  "Would it be right that by the time
    23        the shed is cleaned out about 70 or 80 per cent of the
    24        environment/index.html">litter would be composed of faeces?"  He said:  "By weight
    25        or volume?  In what respect?"  Then he said he had not
    26        actually assayed it, so he could not be certain.  Then
    27        I put to him:  "By the time, say, they are 53 days old ...
    28        the majority of the environment/index.html">litter will be composed of faeces?"  He
    29        said:  "I think that is not a very true representation in
    30        so far as the environment/index.html">litter does actually work microbially.  So,
    31        for instance, certain components, particularly the
    32        nitrogenous component, can be broken down.  It will
    33        eventually evolve in ammonia under some conditions, which
    34        can be unpleasant, but it depends on how the environment/index.html">litter is kept
    35        as to what it will release to the atmosphere.  But it is a
    36        source of heat".  The basic point is that it does not get
    37        cleaned out and it does still remain.  He did recognise
    38        that it was not cleaned out, was the point.
    39
    40   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, I know but I thought you were putting
    41        that he had accepted that.
    42
    43   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, what was being put was, in effect, it was
    44        filthy dirty and any sane person would realise that and
    45        Dr. Gregory said so.  But, in fact, Dr. Gregory said
    46        nothing of the kind.
    47
    48   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The danger is, you see, when you summarise
    49        something it takes on the interpretation you would wish to
    50        put on it, which may or may not be the interpretation which 
    51        I or someone else would put on in due course.  So that if 
    52        you want to put something to one witness which another 
    53        witness has said, you must put what he has actually said
    54        rather than your interpretation.
    55
    56   MS. STEEL:  I think the point I was trying put to Mr. Oakley was
    57        that most people would not consider it to be clean for
    58        chickens to spend the whole of their lives in sheds which
    59        were not cleaned out until they were slaughtered.  That was
    60        the point that I was trying to put to him.

Prev Next Index