Day 143 - 27 Jun 95 - Page 51


     
     1        understood thing, that that is what the union's
     2        requirements would be.  In fact, I am positive that Mike
     3        Thorell told that to the union.  Let me put it this way.
     4        He told me he told the union that that would be the sum and
     5        substance of agreeing to the Orange Book and that he was
     6        not going to do that.
     7
     8   Q.   Are you aware there may have been -- well, do you know if
     9        part of the agreement between unions and employers in the
    10        industry that McDonald's did not want to adhere to is that
    11        overtime should be paid?
    12        A.  Sir, the so-called Orange Book was in Dutch.  I never
    13        saw a translation of it -- I am sorry, in Danish.  I cannot
    14        even tell the difference, I am sorry.  I guess it is in
    15        Danish and I never saw a translation.  Frankly I would have
    16        tried to read it probably if I could have, but it was in
    17        Danish and it was very thick.
    18
    19   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Hold on, we are in the Netherlands at the
    20        moment.  If it is an orange book I would have thought we
    21        probably would be.  It is their national colour.
    22
    23   MR. MORRIS:  No, I believe we are in Denmark.
    24        A.  That would be Denmark, my Lord.
    25
    26   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It just shows how confused I am getting.  The
    27        difficulty with this line of enquiry is this.  You have the
    28        witness, Mr. Morris, Mr. Stein saying he does not accept
    29        what you are putting.  He then tells me what someone has
    30        told him so, subject to any argument, I cannot rely on that
    31        against you because that is hearsay.  You are getting
    32        nowhere.  I am getting lots of things said which might be
    33        favourable to McDonald's but which I am going to have to
    34        discard at the end of the day because they fall foul of the
    35        hearsay rule, and there is no exception to the hearsay rule
    36        which protects them.  We have had quite a lot of court time
    37        and I look at what I have collected for the day and it is
    38        not very much.
    39
    40   MR. MORRIS:  Well, what I am saying here ----
    41
    42   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I am encouraging you to take it shortly, find
    43        out whether or not Mr. Stein can confirm what you want.  Do
    44        not pick up what he says someone told him because I cannot
    45        treat that as evidence of the truth of what he was told in
    46        any event.
    47
    48   MR. MORRIS:  Mr. Stein, you visited Denmark in the 80s, yes?
    49        A.  Yes, I did.
    50 
    51   Q.   And you obviously enquired ---- 
    52 
    53   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, I want to say something, if I may.
    54        I know it is annoying for everybody but I have just been
    55        looking at yesterday's transcript.  We had seven pages on
    56        Denmark yesterday.
    57
    58   MR. MORRIS:  I did not refer to this document.  The point is,
    59        you went to Denmark around the time that there had been
    60        negotiations with unions on the matter of a collective

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