Day 105 - 16 Mar 95 - Page 58


     
     1        having from this witness before he goes.
     2
     3   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Right.  What time do you have to get away
     4        this evening, Mr. Morris?
     5
     6   MR. MORRIS:  Thursdays, I am all right.
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  We will rise until quarter to four.
     9
    10   MR. MORRIS:  Can the witness be reminded he must not talk to the
    11        Plaintiffs or representatives of the Plaintiffs?
    12
    13   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  Do not talk to anyone about the case at
    14        all, Mr. Bennett.  We will resume at quarter to 4.
    15
    16                       (Short Adjournment)
    17
    18   MS. STEEL:  There was one thing I wanted to clarify:  The TVC is
    19        the only test that people do use to check for food safety,
    20        is it not, in the meat industry?
    21        A.  Not entirely.  It is common practice to check the
    22        overall condition of the meat and all the circumstances
    23        I mentioned just previously.  I am not going through them
    24        again, but there is a wide range of indicators which are
    25        fed by the TVC, that is, Total Viable Count of bacteria.
    26        There are companies in very specialised fields who choose
    27        to carry out other checks, check for Salmonella, check for
    28        E.coli.
    29
    30        Some companies on receipt, if they buy meat, even wholesale
    31        meat companies, will check it themselves for, in fact,
    32        Salmonella.  It is not a common practice, but it does
    33        happen.  It is very difficult to make an all-embracing
    34        statement on that subject.  I said, generally speaking, it
    35        is not the common practice to do more than check for the
    36        TVC.  In fact, it is common practice not even to do that
    37        because the need is not felt.
    38
    39   Q.   Perhaps I should have been a bit more specific:  Apart from
    40        specific tests for Salmonella and E.coli, the only widely
    41        used test for food safety is the TVC?
    42        A.  As you know, I do not accept that it is particularly
    43        significant in terms of food safety.  It is a widely used
    44        check.  It tells you all sorts of things.  In my view, it
    45        tells you nothing about food safety.  People are entitled
    46        to think that if the meat is generally of low bacterial
    47        count it might well be safer.  I do not happen to hold that
    48        view.
    49
    50   Q.   But that is the method used by the industry? 
    51        A.  Yes, for the general bacterial check.  I would not like 
    52        you to get me to agree that it was purely and simply a food 
    53        safety check.
    54
    55   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  But you say, in your view, the TVC or TCC
    56        tells you nothing about food safety.  What Ms. Steel is
    57        putting to you is, nevertheless, a large number of people
    58        in the food industry are using it as an indicator of food
    59        safety.
    60        A.  I can accept that they do that, but I must come back to

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