Day 127 - 23 May 95 - Page 67


     
     1   Q.   Yes, or the Mark Hopkins -----
     2        A.  Yes, exactly, so you need to look at each one
     3        individually, and accident statistics are only part of what
     4        we do to measure safety performance.
     5
     6   MR. RAMPTON:  Can I ask, arising out of that, Mrs. Barnes, is
     7        the position -- perhaps I will ask it in a non-leading way
     8         -- are you concerned more with percentage reductions or
     9        with actual numbers of accidents which happen to people?
    10        A.  Well, neither, to be honest.  With trends in the
    11        accidents, the type of accidents, with specific accident
    12        types, would also building that into other records like our
    13        safety audit performance, where we are measuring the
    14        proactive things we are trying to do to prevent accidents.
    15
    16        Just coming back again to risk assessment, that is a much
    17        more positive way of looking at it.  We have seen our
    18        safety audit scores raise steadily from mid 60s to over 80
    19        per cent in the last two years.  That is measuring -- my
    20        people going into stores unannounced, seeing physically the
    21        safety of the store is better, seeing safer behaviour and
    22        seeing more stringent management systems in place in the
    23        restaurants.  That, we know, is giving us a real measure;
    24        whereas with the accident statistics it could be a matter
    25        of luck whether something turns up on there or not.
    26
    27   Q.   Can we then against that background turn, please, to tab 55
    28        of this document where we see a bulky document (which, you
    29        will be pleased to hear, we are not going to look at much
    30        of this afternoon) produced, apparently, by the HSE, the
    31        Health and Safety Executive, headed: "The Management of
    32        Occupational Health and Safety in McDonald's Restaurants
    33        Limited".  Then there is a picture of something which I do
    34        not know what it is -- it looks like a warehouse -- with
    35        "McDonald's" on it.  It is subheaded:  "A Report by the
    36        Accident Prevention Advisory Unit, August 1992".  I said
    37        April; I was wrong about that. Published in August 1992.
    38
    39        One sees on page 800 that the work took place between
    40        December 1991 and April 1992.  That is to say, the work on
    41        the ground, it seems so.  Then it says:  "This report
    42        should be read in conjunction with HSE published guidance
    43        'Successful Health and Safety Management'" which is an
    44        HMSO publication coming out in 1991.
    45
    46        Mrs. Barnes, how did it come about that this Report was
    47        written?
    48        A.  Well, in the summer of 1991 the Health and Safety
    49        Executive approached us and asked if we would be willing to
    50        participate in their carrying out an assessment of our 
    51        health and safety management systems.  The advantage they 
    52        could see to us was at that time we were dealing 300 local 
    53        authorities nationwide who all had their particular
    54        perception of what we should be doing in our restaurants.
    55        They offered us a central approach in terms of their giving
    56        us advice on what we were doing and were then going to
    57        communicate that to all the different Environmental Health
    58        Officers.
    59
    60        This they had done successfully with other companies, so

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