Day 149 - 06 Jul 95 - Page 16
1 there be any dispute about it, it would be better to raise
2 it, the matters you particularly have in mind, so that one
3 could find out whether that is common ground, or there
4 might be some confession and avoidance of it.
5
6 You understand what I understand what I mean confession
7 and avoidance: "Yes, that was said but", and then an
8 explanation which is contrary to the point you are trying
9 to make is given.
10
11 MS. STEEL: But, obviously, we could not do that unless we did
12 recall her?
13
14 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No. All I was saying is, if there were
15 particular points which you wanted to make on the strength
16 of what appears in the minutes, I was suggesting that you
17 raise them in open court, one could find what Mr. Rampton's
18 reaction to them was. If he said: "Yes, we accept that
19 was so", there would be no need to recall Mrs. Barnes in
20 order to put it to her. If, on the other hand, Mr. Rampton
21 said: "Well, that is completely equivocal. I do not read
22 into that what the Plaintiffs are trying to read into it",
23 then you may might say: "Well, in that case, it is only
24 fair Mrs. Barnes comes back so that we can ask her what it
25 meant."
26
27 But before one goes to recalling Mrs. Barnes, I was
28 suggesting that you indicate to me, and thereby to
29 Mr. Rampton, what the matters are, we can air them in open
30 court and you can find out whether there is an issue or
31 loose end.
32
33 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, this is supposed to be constructive:
34 since in any event I take the view that the two documents
35 referred to -- I forget what they are -- earlier, which
36 Ms. Steel raised, one was the response to the HSE report
37 and the other was in relation to hustle, I take the view
38 that those documents are disclosable in principle.
39
40 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That was my reaction so far.
41
42 MR. RAMPTON: I have no doubt that is right. There may be bits
43 of them that are relevant and bits that may not be.
44
45 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It seems to me a degree of relevance might be
46 the issue rather than pure relevance, because once we have
47 the HSE report and once we have ---
48
49 MR. RAMPTON: Hustle.
50
51 MR. JUSTICE BELL: -- recommendations being carried into effect,
52 then it seemed to me that anything which is passed in
53 between in documentary form has a potential relevance.
54
55 MR. RAMPTON: I entirely agree with your Lordship. That is
56 entirely my view. Having said that, it does seem to me
57 that the sensible thing, since I doubt whether the
58 Defendants are now in a position to give notice of the
59 particular parts of the minutes and the safety update that
60 they would like to cross-examine Mrs. Barnes about, or
