Day 188 - 15 Nov 95 - Page 55


     
     1   MS. STEEL:  That was the aim of it.
     2
     3   MR. MORRIS:  That was the aim of it.
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is a challenge to the witness's
     6        credibility, because Mr. Rampton's instructions, I assume
     7        -- and I have no reason to doubt it -- are that this
     8        witness is lying.  But I do not doubt a witness's
     9        credibility just because it is suggested to him that he is
    10        lying.  I have to go on and think about it, and look and
    11        see what ammunition there is for the allegation that he is
    12        lying.
    13
    14        I would have thought that all you need concern yourselves
    15        about is, if no ammunition is provided, you might say to
    16        yourselves, "We can be pretty confident that the judge will
    17        not attach any weight to the allegation."  So that is the
    18        situation there.
    19
    20        I mean, I can look at Mr. Lamti's evidence and if Mr.
    21        Rampton said, "I suggest what he said there is inconsistent
    22        with what he said there", then I can take that into account
    23        in assessing the weight.  But I do not begin to doubt a
    24        witness's credibility just because someone representing the
    25        other side has said to him: "I put it to you that you are
    26        lying."
    27
    28   MR. MORRIS:  Yes, but it is a shortcut.  The fact is, McDonald's
    29        have not challenged any of the witness's evidence and they
    30        cannot say: "Oh, we did challenge his evidence, because we
    31        accused him of lying."  The point is, they made ------
    32
    33   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What are you worrying about it for, then?
    34
    35   MR. MORRIS:  I am just saying that we are making that point
    36        clear, so that it is understood.  If Mr. Rampton is going
    37        to challenge the evidence of our witnesses, he cannot do it
    38        by a shortcut, by saying they are lying, because the only
    39        proper way -- this is what I was told -- is, if you accuse
    40        someone of lying, you have to then go through all the
    41        details of what you are saying.
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Well, you have been misinformed.
    44
    45   MS. STEEL:   Can I just say something?  We are not worried about
    46        it in terms of discrediting Mr. Lamti's evidence, because
    47        I think it is clear as day that the Plaintiffs have not got
    48        a leg to stand on; they cannot even call a witness over
    49        here.  But Mr. Lamti was upset by it; and I do recall that
    50        when Mr. Morris was cross-examining Mr. Walker and 
    51        suggested to him that he was lying because of something 
    52        that he had said in an inconsistency, Mr. Rampton objected 
    53        to that and said that he ought to have a good basis for
    54        accusing him.
    55
    56   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I remember intervening there, but the only
    57        reason I intervened was to make sure that Mr. Morris
    58        understood that it is not proper to make an allegation that
    59        someone is lying unless you have some basis for it.  You do
    60        not have to reveal the basis, but I just wanted to make

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