Day 167 - 02 Oct 95 - Page 67
1
2 MR. JUSTICE BELL: What I think you should do is overnight you
3 should make a list of what you think would be a start on
4 it, because I am entirely disinclined at the moment to make
5 a direction for vast discovery. So, what I want you to do
6 overnight is think of what samples you could most easily
7 justify to me.
8
9 Bear in mind that the documents may be totally
10 inconclusive, whatever they have on them, because if, for
11 instance, we had a sheet which showed alterations were made
12 to the clock-card, if you have actually got the witness --
13 I say the witness -- if you have actually the person there,
14 it might turn out to have a perfectly innocent reason.
15
16 The other matter is this question of hours actually
17 worked. At the end of the day, I may think there is a very
18 great difference between -- if there is cogent evidence of
19 a lot of working of over 39 hours, then that is one thing,
20 but there may be a big difference in my mind as to whether
21 people are working regularly over 39 hours with or without
22 overtime because there is some pressure on them to do so,
23 on the one hand, or because they are begging the Manager to
24 let them work it on the other.
25 In the context of this leaflet, I may think there is a
26 world of difference, whatever you think and would like to
27 argue.
28
29 That is why I mention the question of the possibility of a
30 sample witness or witnesses in relation to these matters,
31 because if there is absolute conflict between Mr. Logan and
32 Mr. Richards at the end of the day, one or two might help
33 me, but there you] Are. That is a matter entirely for the
34 parties.
35
36 MR. MORRIS: Yes. I think we ought to bear in mind that Michael
37 Logan is talking about practices and the power that
38 management have to use -----
39
40 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I know. All I am saying is whatever the
41 documents show, at the end of the day that may be
42 absolutely inconclusive, because there may be a world of
43 difference between that person being scheduled those hours
44 or working those hours, if he has wanted to work them, on
45 the one hand, or had pressure put on him to work them
46 because they do not have enough people on the payroll.
47
48 At the moment, I find it difficult to see how I could
49 decide that, if it was important to me, whether you say it
50 is important or not, just from the document.
51
52 MR. MORRIS: I think what Michael Logan has said and what I have
53 applied for is a picture over a period of time when
54 somebody's hours were cut down from what they -----
55
56 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That may be a reason for ---
57
58 MR. MORRIS: Unsocial hours.
59
60 MR. JUSTICE BELL: -- having a certain period of time of the
