Day 083 - 06 Feb 95 - Page 43


     
     1        there be an amendment, but let the Defendants be confident
     2        that it will be the subject of a formal request for
     3        particulars if it is not fully particularised when it is
     4        served.
     5
     6   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  You see, it is really when Mr. Cesca
     7        comes back.  We have to decide it well before then because
     8        if there is any question of an amendment, and if there is
     9        any question of discovery, there has to be time -- I say
    10        "if" -- to deal with it before he comes into the witness
    11        box, but it need not be dealt with before Dr. Gomez
    12        Gonzales comes back because he has been in purda, and there
    13        we are.
    14
    15   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, if there is an amendment (a) it ought to
    16        be in good time before Dr. Gomez Gonzales comes back
    17        because, no doubt, if there is to be an amendment, the
    18        Defendants will want to ask questions about it of him who,
    19        obviously, has some knowledge of this question though he is
    20        not the Plaintiffs' principal witness on that issue, that
    21        is Mr. Cesca.  But I would say two things.  First, that it
    22        ought to be properly particularised before he comes back;
    23        second, that if it is not, there ought to be sufficient
    24        time that a request can be made and, if necessary, the
    25        particulars can be ordered; third, if it contains material
    26        upon which he might have evidence to give but because it is
    27        an amendment he has not had a chance to think about, we
    28        ought to be allowed to talk to him about it.
    29
    30   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  One of the great ironies is he only
    31        started working in 1991.
    32
    33   MR. RAMPTON:  Mr. Cesca has, I think, been with the company
    34        since 1987.
    35
    36   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is why I was really wondering whether,
    37        without any disrespect to Dr. Gomez Gonzales, to use a
    38        colloquial phrase, it is any of his business because he
    39        only came in in 1991 and we are, essentially, concerned
    40        with times before that.
    41
    42   MR. RAMPTON:  No, it is a piece of knowledge, if it is
    43        knowledge, which he has acquired accidentally because it is
    44        not his function in the company.  His function is meat.
    45        But that would be a matter for your Lordship.  Your
    46        Lordship could I think say:  "Right, that is enough about
    47        this from Dr. Gomez Gonzales.  Save all this for Mr. Cesca"
    48        but I am not making -----
    49
    50   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is my inclination at the moment. 
    51        I cannot see how the Defendants suffer from that because 
    52        Mr. Cesca is the man so far as that is concerned. 
    53
    54   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes, that is right.  My Lord, if that be right,
    55        then it would be, in my submission, the correct course to
    56        leave over any further question of discovery in relation to
    57        Brazil -- I say that against this background, that so far
    58        as Vesty meat is concerned, all the discovery has been made
    59         -- until we see what the amendment says and then we need
    60        not spend any more time on it at present.

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