Day 010 - 11 Jul 94 - Page 54


     
     1        pin-point it within some of the material, if you wish?
 
     2   Q.   Were you aware at the time that McDonald's were still
              planning to carry on using styrofoam packaging,
     3        polystyrene foam packaging, worldwide or in many
              countries?
     4        A.  We expected that McDonald's, that actually we
              anticipated that we would need to pay attention to
     5        McDonald's implementation of their withdrawal of foam food
              packaging; that, in fact, it might take more time and they
     6        might decide not to -- they might go back on what they
              said.
     7
              In so far as what they were going to in other countries at
     8        the time, we did not expect that it would affect other
              countries except in so far as McDonald's was willing to
     9        extend those policies to other branches around the globe.
 
    10   Q.   What is your opinion of what McDonald's Corporation should
              do on this polystyrene foam issue around the world?
    11        A.  Well, I think, in a very general sense, they ought to
              live by the same standards they live by in their home
    12        country, to the extent they wish to be perceived as a
              model corporate citizen around the world, that they ought
    13        to at the very least live up to what standards they set
              for themselves in the United States.
    14
         Q.   Why do you think they have not withdrawn polystyrene foam
    15        yet in other countries?
              A.  I think it has to do with the fact that they have not
    16        been subjected to the kind of Grassroots community
              pressure that was brought to bear on them in the United
    17        States.
 
    18   Q.   Very briefly -- I have nearly finished now -- did you feel
              it your responsibility in the campaign to propose an
    19        alternative packaging system for McDonald's?
              A.  We recommended that they consider alternatives such as
    20        packaging that was made from recycled paper, or that they
              consider maximising their use of reusable materials in
    21        their restaurants.  At various stages McDonald's did
              respond to those issues, although not necessarily directly
    22        to us, to the organisation.
 
    23   Q.   Have you heard of the argument put forward by McDonald's
              that reusable packaging would be more damaging to the
    24        environment than polystyrene foam packaging?  For example,
              if they had to use dishwashers, it would be a large energy
    25        use.  Have you heard those arguments?
              A.  I was aware of those arguments and I am aware they 
    26        continue to be advanced. 
  
    27   Q.   What is your opinion of those arguments?
              A.  I think the argument that a disposable package is less
    28        wasteful in terms of energy consumption is rather
              questionable, that it seems to defy common sense.  It
    29        also, as far as I know, defies the laws of physics, and
              the only possible explanation I can think as to how these
    30        arguments have developed is that they do not fully account
              for the energy consumption that is required from the

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