Day 182 - 02 Nov 95 - Page 22


     
     1        I suggest you do is jot down on a bit of paper the
     2        particular topics of Mr. Holm you want to take Mr. Jenssen
     3        to.
     4
     5                         (Short adjournment)
     6
     7   MR. MORRIS:  What I am going to do is I am just going to go
     8        through Mr. Holm's statement and ask you to comment.  If
     9        you can get his first supplementary statement?  Is that
    10        24?
    11
    12   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  24 again.
    13
    14   MR. MORRIS:  24.  Paragraph 4, second sentence:  "It was agreed
    15        with the union and with the staff that there would be union
    16        organisation in the four restaurants where the 14 people
    17        who wanted union organisation were employed".  How does it
    18        work with union recognition under the agreement that you
    19        have reached?
    20        A.  Well, the way it works is that it is the company who
    21        gets union recognition in the company and, depending on how
    22        many members -- how many workers there are, well, depends
    23        on how many workers there are, there will be so and so many
    24        union representatives.  And what it means is that in
    25        addition to the law, you gain additional agreements.  The
    26        agreement covers many of the same aspects as the law but
    27        has better, well, benefits, more -- well, the law does not
    28        have -- there is no minimum wage in Norway.  With an
    29        agreement you will have a minimal wage, or you will have a
    30        tariff which is then biannualy adjusted according to
    31        negotiations and the price level.
    32
    33   Q.   Right.  Just going back to the actual recognition, the
    34        structure of it:  What I am saying is, do you need to get
    35        union recognition at a particular store?  Do you have to
    36        have a percentage of union members or how does it work or
    37        do you just have to have one union member?
    38        A.  Well, the way it works is that those that are not union
    39        members, they have no say at all.  So, if there is, for
    40        instance, only one union member and a collective agreement,
    41        then you will, in fact, be bargaining for the whole of the
    42        restaurant.  The ununionised workers will have to abide by
    43        any decisions made by the representatives of the union.
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause a moment.  Yes.  I think what
    46        Mr. Morris was asking you, you say that union recognition
    47        is not store by store, it is employer by employer, i.e. so
    48        if there was one company running one store, then the
    49        recognition would be at that one store.  On the other hand,
    50        if it was a company running four stores, the recognition 
    51        would be at all four stores; is that what you are saying? 
    52        A.  Yes.  Well, the thing is about franchising, the way 
    53        McDonald's is operated is that, and that is why, probably,
    54        Theo Holm got the stores into different companies, is that
    55        in a franchising system, it is only one store consists of
    56        one unit.
    57
    58   Q.   Yes, but what I have said to you is right, whether it is a
    59        subsidiary company of McDonald's Norway S/A, or whether it
    60        is a franchisee of that company, the union recognition is

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