Day 121 - 04 May 95 - Page 30


     
     1        A.  No.  I would say that was something to look into, and
     2        I take it it was.  That is what that return is for, and if
     3        you examine those returns that we have given you, all that
     4        we could give you, that is an unusual scenario.
     5
     6   MS. STEEL:  How do you know that?
     7        A.  Because you have got the returns there.
     8
     9   Q.   You have never even seen this before?
    10        A.  No, no, no.
    11
    12   Q.   You have never even seen these sheets before; you did not
    13        know what they were a minute ago.
    14        A.  You are not listening.  The analysis of overtime -- you
    15        have got them there -- Mr. Morris went through them and we
    16        worked out that the average number working over 78 hours
    17        was 4.5 per cent.  I do not know what percentage this is,
    18        but it clearly is one that would come up on that report and
    19        someone would make enquiries.
    20
    21   Q.   Right, but the whole point is that whether or not it is a
    22        high percentage there actually appeared to be quite a large
    23        number of your employees that are working more than 39
    24        hours a week in various stores across the country and they
    25        do not get overtime rates.  Basically, your policy does not
    26        appear to be worth the paper it is written on?
    27        A.  Yes, it is.  You are taking one sheet here at random.
    28        I have given you the analysis of overtime return for the
    29        whole of the country, and he has, and Mr. Morris, I beg
    30        your pardon, Mr. Morris -- I have not calculated it --
    31        Mr. Morris has calculated the number of people
    32
    33   MR. MORRIS:  I think it was Mr. Rampton actually who did the
    34        final calculation.
    35        A.  Was it?  Well, whoever did it.
    36
    37   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I know, you introduced some overall
    38        figures  ---
    39        A.  It was just over four per cent
    40
    41   Q.   -- which we can go through and do some arithmetic, if we
    42        want to?
    43        A.  It was just over four per cent.  I find that totally
    44        acceptable, as long as people are keeping an eye on the
    45        number of times people work in excess of 78 hours.  That
    46        could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for this.  I do
    47        not know.
    48
    49   MS. STEEL:  There may not be a reasonable explanation.
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think you have to leave it there because 
    52        you and Mr. Nicholson, for better or worse, are taking a 
    53        different view about it.  I have to form my view at the end
    54        of the day.  A time comes when you may not be getting an
    55        answer which you find is satisfactory, but that is the
    56        answer you are given.  So, one has to move on and leave it
    57        for comment later on or exploration with another witness,
    58        perhaps.
    59
    60   MS. STEEL:  How long are crew payroll summaries kept for?

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