Day 113 - 03 Apr 95 - Page 41


     
     1        limits are raised to accommodate what we think are still
     2        bad practices.  We think generally the MRLs should be
     3        pushed down and down because the lower they are the safer
     4        is the customer, consumer, from any danger that comes
     5        through from these substances.
     6
     7   Q.   Just to clarify this, when were you employed by Glaxo, this
     8        was your area of specific research, was it, the effect of
     9         -----
    10        A.  Well, no, it was an area we had to take of,
    11        environmental effects of releasing antibiotics into the
    12        environment.  You have to think about the excretion of
    13        antibiotics.  You have to think how they are distributed.
    14        If they are given to fish, you have to think about them
    15        going into the sea.  So, all of that, if you are being a
    16        prudent and careful operator, you have to do the
    17        appropriate tests.
    18
    19        If I could give you an example of ivermectins which are
    20        anthelmintics, you see, they kill off worms in the gut.  If
    21        ivermectins are excreted by the cattle in the meadows,
    22        there is a danger they kill off the dung beetle, so the cow
    23        pats become persistent and perpetual.  That would be very
    24        serious.  That is the sort of thing that a prudent and
    25        careful manufacturer would take care of in good husbandry.
    26
    27   Q.   I do recall reading last night something about
    28        anthelmintics.  I think it came up with Mr. Bowes saying it
    29        was used for the pigs.  What are they used for again?
    30        A.  Well, they are wormers.  If you like, a familiar use is
    31        with the dog.  You call them "worming the dog".  Helminths
    32        are the technical name for the worms, and they are
    33        antihelminths, so the word "anthelmintics" has been derived
    34        for them.
    35
    36   Q.   I might try check that out.
    37        A.  Ivermectin is an anthelmintic.
    38
    39   Q.   I want to clear up a few bits and pieces that may have been
    40        left out before we get on to slaughter.  Do you have a
    41        concern with the kind of diet that is fed to cattle in
    42        cattle feed?
    43        A.  Yes, a great deal, because too high a protein diet to
    44        an animal that is typically a ruminant upsets the
    45        digestion, and a number of their problems are digestive
    46        troubles as a result.  Metabolic diseases, I have mentioned
    47        those already.  You do get trouble in the rumen, you do not
    48        get a good rumination, and there does seem to be some
    49        connection again which is not fully understood that this
    50        contributes to the causes of lameness.  This is a fairly 
    51        well attested connection, although it is not well 
    52        understood. 
    53
    54        Also, dare I mention it, of course, what concerns us most
    55        now is the effect of feed on the development of BSE.  That
    56        is very much a welfare matter because cows that are
    57        suffering from BSE do suffer a great deal.
    58
    59   Q.   What is the problem with the feed?
    60        A.  Well, the Ministry's explanation which seems to hold up

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