Day 104 - 15 Mar 95 - Page 31


     
     1
     2   Q.   And there is a separate place for fat, it appears?
     3        A.  Yes.
     4
     5   Q.   In all of that, what risk do you think is there, as
     6        Ms. Hovi asserts, of airborne contamination of dressed
     7        carcasses?
     8        A.  Strictly speaking, there is no risk of airborne
     9        contamination.
    10
    11   Q.   What about if you squirt the carcass with water to clean
    12        it?
    13        A.  I would not wish to be pedantic, but water or spray is
    14        not airborne.
    15
    16   Q.   No, I quite accept that.  Airborne contamination is one
    17        thing; droplet contamination is another.  They benefit from
    18        air currents, I suppose?
    19        A.  Yes, but at this particular stage there are not
    20        droplets, there is no washing going on.
    21
    22   Q.   Where would we say that the dirty side of the business ends
    23        and the clean side begins, looking at our plan?
    24        A.  In my view, whilst there is no statutory definition of
    25        this ---
    26
    27   Q.   I understand that.
    28        A.  -- it is -- I accepted that the dirty area ends when
    29        the gut has been removed and, of course, the hide.
    30
    31   Q.   Hide comes first then gut?
    32        A.  Yes.
    33
    34   Q.   While you have got the plan out, I will ask you to deal
    35        with two other of the allegations which Ms. Hovi makes.
    36        These, I remind you, are supposed to be breaches of actual
    37        regulations.  She says:  "There was a shortage of
    38        facilities for disinfection of hand tools and knives
    39        leading to contamination of the carcasses and meat".  One
    40        sees -- they may all be lies, of course -- numerous places
    41        in this plan where there is hand wash and apron wash and
    42        sterilization indicated.  What I want to ask you is this:
    43        First, do those sterilizing stations exist?
    44        A.  Yes, they do.
    45
    46   Q.   Second are they used?
    47        A.  Yes, they are.
    48
    49   Q.   Do they disinfect their hands, tools and knives?
    50        A.  Yes. 
    51 
    52   Q.   How often do they do it in the course of a morning's work, 
    53        for example?
    54        A.  In the case of operations at the dirty end, that is,
    55        the sticking of the beast and so on, virtually between
    56        every carcass, and on the subsequent operations I could
    57        describe it as frequent, perhaps every two minutes, every
    58        three minutes.  It is a continuous operation.
    59
    60   Q.   Do they have backup knives?  Do they stop to clean the

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