Day 116 - 26 Apr 95 - Page 37


     
     1        place to park.  I said to Ron Lorrie, "Where can I park in
     2        Hackney? I have never been there before.  How do I get from
     3        the parking place?"  He said: "It is my store.  I am going
     4        down there on business, I will show you where to park."  I
     5        do not think he attended the meeting.  I am not sure, but I
     6        do not think he attended the meeting.
     7
     8   Q.   These two occasions, the only ones that I am aware of,
     9        where you went personally to the store in connection with
    10        some sort of suggestion relating to a trades union, do you
    11        think there were any others where you personally went?
    12        A.  There was one other.
    13
    14   Q.   Where as that?
    15        A.  Liverpool.
    16
    17   Q.   Why would it be necessary for somebody of your seniority to
    18        go to Hackney, East Ham or Liverpool to deal with a matter,
    19        I will not call it a problem, of this kind?
    20        A.  Well, at that time in the London and Southern region
    21        I must have had something like 170 stores.  I had Carmel
    22        Flatley and Joanne Blaket as my field personnel officers.
    23        I took the telephone call.  If they had taken the telephone
    24        call, they may very well have gone.  I took the telephone
    25        call and said, "Yes, I will come down." I used to enjoy
    26        going to the store talking to the crew.
    27
    28   Q.   Why did you get involve with the one at Liverpool?
    29        A.  Again, the regional manager said he had had this
    30        approach from the manager; he had been informed by the
    31        manager that he had been approached to allow the crew to
    32        join a union, and that he was going to address the meeting
    33        on Saturday afternoon.  It happened to be Aintree day, the
    34        Grand National, and he asked if I would go up in case he
    35        wanted some support from me and I said "Certainly".  I went
    36        up there.  I visited four or five stores while I was up
    37        there.  I did attend the meeting, but I did not participate
    38        in it.
    39
    40   Q.   Did you also get to go to the Grand National?
    41        A.  No.  It was held at the time the Grand National was
    42        run.
    43
    44   Q.   Was that a big deal, that Liverpool thing?
    45        A.  No.
    46
    47   Q.   Broadly speaking, what was it about?  I think you told us
    48        in outline that some crew people?
    49        A.  Yes, had indicated they wanted to join a union.
    50 
    51   Q.   How did you deal with that? 
    52        A.  Well, the regional manager addressed the -- no, in fact 
    53        he did not.  The store manager and the supervisor addressed
    54        the meeting.  There were about, I would say, on that
    55        occasion 25, maybe 30 crew members attended.  If I remember
    56        correctly, I am sure at the end of the afternoon the
    57        manager said: "Now that you have heard what the company's
    58        policy is, how many people really want to consider joining
    59        a union?"  I think about three put their hands up.
    60

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