Day 288 - 28 Oct 96 - Page 19


     
     1
     2   MR JUSTICE BELL:  It is helpful that I should know.
     3
     4   MR RAMPTON:   I find the general charge, as I shall say in due
     5        course, but, so there is no secret about it, we find the
     6        general charge imported in the word 'torture'.
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I thought you would.  That is why I said what
     9        I did earlier.  I mean, you can make your comment, and
    10        I have understood what you have said about that, but at the
    11        moment I find it most readily in the word 'torture' and it
    12        is just a question of what the actual expression of it is.
    13        But whatever the accurate expression of the general charge
    14        is, I do not think there is any technical objection to you
    15        saying, "We can justify that general charge if we are able,
    16        by reference to all the matters, we would say, of
    17        mistreatment of animals", apart from which have cropped up
    18        in the evidence for my decision one way or the other,
    19        "quite apart from the specific ones which are alleged in
    20        the leaflet".
    21
    22   MR. RAMPTON:   My Lord, can I say more or less what I said the
    23        other day, and I hope it will save time.  The Defendants'
    24        primary position is that torture is a comment.  If that is
    25        so, then by and large they are confined to the facts stated
    26        in the leaflet.  We say, no, on the contrary, it imputes a
    27        state of mind to us which is an allegation of fact.  The
    28        Defendants are entitled to say, well, if we are wrong that
    29        it is a comment and you are right that it is a allegation
    30        of fact, then on all the evidence in the case it is true.
    31
    32   MR JUSTICE BELL:  All I say at the moment is that my inclination
    33        is that it is a statement of fact rather than a comment,
    34        but the result of that is that you can rely on lots of
    35        things you would not be able to rely on if it was a
    36        comment.
    37
    38   MS. STEEL:   To be honest, I think you can get the general sting
    39        about animal suffering and McDonald's being responsible for
    40        it throughout the text without the heading, but obviously
    41        people would read the entire thing.  I mean, I do not think
    42        that our sting would fall if the heading was not there.
    43
    44   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   No.  Well, there we are.
    45
    46   MS. STEEL:   Just on the subject about torture, the point about
    47        torture is that it is what the animals are feeling and it
    48        does not have to reflect on the state of mind of the
    49        persons who are rearing or slaughtering them.  I mean,
    50        obviously, in some cases it would, but it does not 
    51        automatically follow that----- 
    52 
    53   MR. MORRIS:   Can I say there are at least two general charges
    54        in the text?  The entirely artificial conditions of huge
    55        factory farms, hence they are forced to live in entirely
    56        artificial conditions, factory farms; and the last
    57        paragraph, which the Plaintiffs have not complained of,
    58        says that animals have no choice at all, and that is a
    59        general charge that animals do not have any choice, they do
    60        not have the freedom to live their lives as they want, and

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