Day 164 - 26 Sep 95 - Page 50


     
     1        scale of values whether McDonald's was number one or number
     2        five at any given point, really does not help to determine
     3        the question of how far have the Defendants been involved
     4        in anti-McDonald's activities and all the things that
     5        follow from that.  Really this is not an action against
     6        London Greenpeace group.  The activities of the group
     7        matter because, and only because, the Defendants have been
     8        active participants in the activities of that group over a
     9        very long period of time.
    10
    11   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What actually happens when any of these
    12        witnesses get into the witness box?  They have with them
    13        their notes because you will ask me to allow them to
    14        refresh their memories from their notes, and their notes
    15        are complete.
    16
    17   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes.
    18
    19   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What then happens if either Ms. Steel or
    20        Mr. Morris wants to ask about something in one of these
    21        interludes?
    22
    23   MR. RAMPTON:  In one of these meetings?
    24
    25   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I have described them as "interludes" but one
    26        of the blank areas.
    27
    28   MR. RAMPTON:  I do not believe they would be entitled to ask
    29        what is represented, what was in that blank.  If they had
    30        any information independently of these notes about what
    31        went on at a meeting, then they could say: "Wasn't that
    32        meeting really about this or that?"  I do not believe they
    33        could overcome the objection to obtain discovery in
    34        relation to credit simply by asking the owner of the notes:
    35        "What is in the bit that has not been disclosed?" That
    36        would be quite wrong, in my submission.
    37
    38   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Let me assume for a moment that the exercise
    39        you have gone through is perfectly proper.
    40
    41   MR. RAMPTON:  I hope so.
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What actual positive objection is there to
    44        the Defendants seeing the notes?  That is not dodging the
    45        issue because I do see, with the experience obviously which
    46        one has had, a faintly unreal pantomime situation arising
    47        if questions are requested about something which may also
    48        happen at a meeting and the enquiry agents, I do not
    49        suppose they were looking for anyone else, they rely
    50        heavily on their notes and, therefore, stick their noses in 
    51        their notes and say: "Well, I did not make any note of 
    52        that."  Is there a positive reason? 
    53
    54   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes, there is a positive reason.  The positive
    55        reason -- well, there is more than one positive reason but
    56        I will give one because I do not believe I am obliged to
    57        give any.  One is always tempted by judges bearing gifts.
    58        I am very cautious of giving a complete answer and unless
    59        your Lordship rules me to do so I prefer not to.  There is
    60        one very positive answer why.  It is because I foresee that

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