Day 122 - 05 May 95 - Page 47


     
     1        issued.
     2
     3   Q.   So if someone from the corporation from America, or if
     4        someone, four or five years later, wanted to check through
     5        the process of discussion and decision-making, they would
     6        be unable to do so, apart from finding people that might
     7        have been involved at the time ---
     8        A.  I think that is right.
     9
    10   Q.  -- and asking if they remembered?
    11        A.  The memos that resulted from that, which drove policy,
    12        would be there.
    13
    14   Q.   Well, Mr. Nicholson ---
    15        A.  In the minutes.
    16
    17   Q.  --  to be frank, I do not believe you.
    18
    19   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do not say that.
    20
    21   MR. MORRIS:  I am going to put it to him that, you know, you are
    22        mistaken.
    23        A.  No.
    24
    25   Q.   Minutes of those meetings exist.  That is fact, is it not,
    26        Mr. Nicholson?
    27        A.  No.
    28
    29   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, it is not as simple as that.  If he knows
    30        they exist, not is he just mistaken; he is lying.
    31
    32   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You see, that is the difficulty with it.  It
    33        is not admissible anyway, because you are acting as an
    34        advocate, not as a party when you are standing up asking
    35        questions, just to say "I do not believe you".  All you
    36        have to put to him is that that is not right, but there is
    37        no point in doing that.  It is a matter of comment for me
    38        in due course.  Do not forget comments which you make at
    39        the end of the case are not made just in the light of
    40        whatever answer has come from the witness box.  They are
    41        such as you feel able to make upon the whole of the
    42        evidence which will by then have been heard.
    43
    44   MR. MORRIS:  Well, Mr. Rampton is always saying I should put it
    45        to the witness if I am going to challenge -----
    46
    47   MR. RAMPTON:  If one is going to accuse a witness of lying in
    48        the witness box, it is very serious matters, and since in
    49        some areas of this case, and Mr. Nicholson is an example,
    50        his credibility will be in issue, particularly when it 
    51        comes to publication, it is important that if Mr. Morris is 
    52        going to throw around these allegations of perjury -- 
    53        which he does with increasing frequency -- it is very
    54        important that the witness should be able to answer it to
    55        your Lordship's satisfaction.
    56
    57   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  All you actually need to do is to put to
    58        Mr. Nicholson that that is wrong.  If you think it is
    59        important to suggest to Mr. Nicholson, for some reason,
    60        that he knows that it is wrong, then put that as well.

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