Day 150 - 07 Jul 95 - Page 28


     
     1        I not want to try to show the person how it is done; the
     2        best way to do it is to physically show them how it is
     3        done.
     4
     5   Q.   I will leave this topic as soon as convenient for
     6        everyone's benefit, but you have been doing that sort of
     7        thing, have you, since you were a crew member up to today,
     8        you say you are doing it now?
     9        A.  Maybe the best way to put it is, having seen that sort
    10        of work practice and ethic exercised by the Manager in
    11        Newcastle, that is one of the things that I think impressed
    12        me, that it was not just a job where the Manager would tell
    13        you to go away and do it.  Nine times out of 10 the
    14        Manager, him or herself, would be there with you showing
    15        you how to do it maybe a couple of times and then you would
    16        be left to do it on your own.  But to suggest you go and
    17        get someone to clean out the toilets as a punishment is, I
    18        do not know, it sounds somewhat Dickensian, to be honest.
    19
    20   Q.   What about sending them out on environment/index.html">litter patrols as a
    21        punishment?
    22        A.  In that case I must be also punishing myself because
    23        I still do those now.
    24
    25   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That may be but what is being put to you is
    26        that, whether you do them or not, they do not come high on
    27        the choice list.
    28        A.  Sure.
    29
    30   Q.   You are being asked whether you know of practices of
    31        blackmailing people, as it were, to work longer than they
    32        want to by the threat, express or implicit, that they will
    33        get dirty jobs if they do not.
    34        A.  Well, that has not been my experience.  If anything,
    35        I would want to put out some good people.  If they are
    36        going to be out on the streets of a particular town
    37        collecting rubbish under a public face, I would have
    38        thought it would be in my interests to have some good
    39        motivated individuals.  That is hence why I was, sort
    40        of, mentioning that I would do it myself as well.
    41
    42   MR. ATKINSON:   While we are on this, you say that you do these
    43        environment/index.html">litter patrols yourself, is your experience that the environment/index.html">litter
    44        patrol system works well in practice or not?
    45        A.  Yes, and it is a very flexible practice as well, so
    46        that in terms of where that environment/index.html">litter patrol goes, it is --
    47        there are some sort of guidelines, if you like or, in fact,
    48        there is probably even legislation now in terms of 100
    49        metres, or whatever, either side of a restaurant.  But,
    50        certainly, doing things that are beyond the normal -- there 
    51        is no sort of after 100 that is it.  If you go down the 
    52        high street and you do find anything else.  Then you pick 
    53        it up.
    54
    55   Q.   Do people have their hours cut as a punishment?
    56        A.  No.
    57
    58   Q.   Do people get given hours they do not want to do as a
    59        punishment?
    60        A.  No.  Once again, if all those practices took place,

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