Day 180 - 31 Oct 95 - Page 35


     
     1        distribution and that the floor of pay, the minimum wage
     2        threshold, should stand at two-thirds of the average for
     3        men.
     4
     5   MR. MORRIS:  And the Council of Europe's decency
     6        threshold -----
     7        A.  If I may, as the paragraph says -- I am talking a bit
     8        slowly -- as the paragraph says under the heading "7
     9        million on low wages", in 1984/5, the TUC adopted
    10        two-thirds of the average as a guideline for union
    11        negotiators, people like me at that time; and of course, as
    12        the paragraph goes on to say, it is a moving target
    13        because, as wages steadily rise, following the cost of
    14        living and other factors, then the floor itself would be
    15        pulled up, would be pulled up every year.  Importantly, it
    16        is the minimum equal pay target, too, because it defines
    17        the floor for all employees, irregardless of gender, race,
    18        whatever.
    19
    20   MR. MORRIS:  You have said in that paragraph: "The Council of
    21        Europe's decency threshold formula is that no wage should
    22        be less than 68 per cent of average earnings"; correct?
    23        A.  Absolutely.
    24
    25   Q.   You agree with that, do you?
    26        A.  I agree with it -- I agree with what you have just
    27        said, and -----
    28
    29   MR. JUSTICE BELL: The 68 per cent there, is that of average
    30        earnings right across the field, not just manual?
    31        A.  You are correct.
    32
    33   Q.   So that probably is a radically different figure, is it
    34        not?
    35        A.  As it turns out, my Lord, it is not -- in the average,
    36        it is not very different; and I will explain one reason
    37        why.  It is based on full-time earnings.
    38
    39   Q.   It is based on full-time?
    40        A.  Full-time earnings of men and women.
    41
    42   Q.   So it is not just manual men?
    43        A.  It is men and women; and, because it is women's
    44        part-time earnings, especially their hourly rates, that are
    45        the lowest of the low, they are discarded from this Council
    46        of Europe formula; it excludes part-time women.
    47
    48   MR. MORRIS:  In your statement at paragraph 21, you have said
    49        that the decency threshold of the Council of Europe would
    50        be £221.50 a week. 
    51        A.  In 1994. 
    52 
    53   Q.   Sorry, in 1994.
    54        A.  Yes.  The Council of Europe -- is it 27 European member
    55        states, Britain an affiliated state -- Council of Europe
    56        setting standards on a wide range of social policy issues,
    57        including employment, determines that in order to help
    58        establish this level playing field in the European economy,
    59        68 per cent of the average in any affiliated state.  So it
    60        is not one amount of AQ across Europe; it is not an AQ

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