Day 261 - 12 Jun 96 - Page 54


     
     1        is nothing special this about this case.
     2
     3   MS. STEEL:  I am not trying to trick the witness.
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is just that if one -- it is not a
     6        criticism of you.  I am just sharing my experience with
     7        everyone.
     8
     9        (To the witness)  So you may be able to say one person was
    10        a regular attender, in your view, another person may have
    11        been, but you might have to go to your notes to talk about
    12        them?
    13        A.  Yes, that is true.
    14
    15   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I am just checking.  That is what I thought
    16        the situation probably was.
    17
    18   MS. STEEL:  But one of the reasons why you might have remembered
    19        those names as being regular attenders was because you
    20        heard of them during the past day or so when you have been
    21        sitting in court listening to the evidence, and because
    22        proceedings were issued against some of those people?
    23        A.  I suppose the fact that within the last few years some
    24        of the names have been repeated could well mean that those
    25        things have lodged in my memory more.  But, also, when you
    26        mentioned some of the names and some of the names are
    27        mentioned, I can picture faces, I can picture the people as
    28        they were, and I cannot with others.  Why I can with some
    29        and not with others, I cannot say, I am afraid.
    30
    31   Q.   OK.  If someone had attended only.....
    32
    33   MR. MORRIS:  When you talked about the regulars before, when
    34        Mr. Rampton questioned you, you said about Paul Gravett,
    35        Helen Steel and Dave Morris were the first three names you
    36        mentioned.  Would Paul Gravett have been at most of the
    37        meetings you attended?
    38        A.  Yes, I think he was.  I believe he was.
    39
    40   Q.   And Helen Steel, as well?
    41        A.  Yes, I believe she was.
    42
    43   Q.   And myself, as well?
    44        A.  Less so.
    45
    46   Q.   What, about half the meetings?
    47        A.  I do not know, without looking.  I do not know.
    48        I could not work a percentage out, without looking.
    49
    50   Q.   Casting your mind back ----- 
    51        A.  I am casting my mind back, but I cannot without 
    52        reference to the notes. 
    53
    54   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I am not sure how much this is helping me.
    55        You have verified from the witness that he would expect to
    56        have down in his notes the names of the people he knew if
    57        they attended.  Therefore, it seems to me, just using one's
    58        common sense, since all these things happened six or seven
    59        years ago, the best way of finding out how often a person
    60        attended any meeting that Mr. Pocklington attended is to

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