Day 086 - 09 Feb 95 - Page 44
1 A. To look at it, using your eyesight.
2
3 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, I think what is being suggested is that
4 you have to pull it apart to see if it is cooked right
5 through. Do you agree with that?
6 A. To see if it is cooked right through, the best way
7 would be to pull it apart, yes.
8
9 MR. MORRIS: If, on inspection, it had been noted that a burger
10 had a bloody appearance, may that cause you concern?
11 A. Yes, a bloody appearance could be construed as, you
12 know, the product may be under-cooked.
13
14 Q. Why were you not worried in the section that you have read
15 about the possibility of cross-contamination between raw
16 and cooked products?
17 A. I think in this assessment, it is important to
18 understand how bacteria are grown and transfer, and a large
19 part of our system rests on our temperature control and the
20 meat that arrives in the restaurant arrives at a
21 temperature of between minus 18 to minus 23. It is kept at
22 that temperature right up until the grill side, so there is
23 no opportunity for bacteria growth.
24
25 It is then placed on the grill and cooked for, on an old
26 grill, for 120 seconds, on a new grill for 44 seconds. The
27 temperature at which bacteria can multiply, as I mentioned
28 yesterday, is between five and 63 degrees. It will retain
29 that temperature for either 44 or 120 seconds. It is then
30 transferred to the bun, put in a production bin and served
31 to the customer within 10 minutes. There just is not
32 chance for any bacteria to multiply within that period.
33
34 Q. It is not talking about multiplication; it is talking about
35 transfer of bacteria on an uncooked product, for example,
36 an uncooked burger, from fingers to ---
37 A. Sorry, I touched -----
38
39 Q. -- other products?
40 A. I touched the uncooked burger -- in this system you
41 touch the uncooked burger with your hand and then you cook
42 it on a platen at 350 degrees Fahrenheit on one side, 425
43 the other side, so it will kill any bacteria that was
44 transferred to it.
45
46 Q. I believe the concern is (and tell me if you share this
47 concern) that if an uncooked burger contains bacteria and
48 the person who inevitably touches those burgers as they are
49 cooking then touches salad products that are not going to
50 be cooked, then there is a possibility of transfer of
51 contamination, would that concern you?
52 A. It does not concern me. I very much understand your
53 argument. It is one that Environmental Health Officers
54 bring to us on many occasions. It is one that we explain
55 to them on many occasions, and in every time that I have
56 been involved in it or heard of it, the Environmental
57 Health Department have been happy with our explanation. It
58 is all due to time and temperature and our controls on time
59 and temperature.
60
