Day 101 - 10 Mar 95 - Page 54


     
     1        witnesses basically saying how happy and well looked after
     2        all their animals are, which I would consider the whole
     3        issue of the animal welfare to be a matter of opinion; and
     4        to me it is an outrage that it has even been brought in the
     5        case.  But, it having been brought in, I have had to listen
     6        to it.  I have had to listen to people making comments that
     7        five chickens in a cage is comfortable, and I just feel
     8        that there needs to be a little bit of sanity in putting to
     9        the witness some kind of objective view rather than just a
    10        business view.
    11
    12   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You are going to have all the opportunity in
    13        the world to put that to me at the end of the day.
    14
    15   MR. MORRIS:  Mr. Rampton says I ought to put my positive case to
    16        the witness.
    17
    18   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, he does not in relation to this.
    19
    20   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, what I said was that if Mr. Morris has a
    21        positive case about the actual conditions of transport, not
    22        the fact of transport, the actual conditions of transport
    23        which might be improved or are in some sense deficient
    24        which this witness can deal with, then he ought to put it
    25        as a question of fact.
    26
    27   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I doubt even that that is necessary with
    28        Mr. Kenny.
    29
    30   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, I agree.
    31
    32   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I am not stopping you from putting your
    33        case.  I am inviting you to put it in a way which might
    34        advance our stock of information further, and put it to
    35        witnesses who can give answers which invite our stock of
    36        information any further.  I am inviting you to the
    37        conclusion that I will take it for granted that McDonald's
    38        either find these practices acceptable, or, if the
    39        practices are unacceptable, have not had in place
    40        procedures which will bring them to their notice so they
    41        can stop them.  I wonder what you are actually gaining by
    42        asking further questions on it.
    43
    44   MR. MORRIS:  If I may, again, just make the comment which covers
    45        the whole case, is that we have noticed that Mr. Rampton
    46        attempts to move the goal posts of what the actual issues
    47        and conflicts are.
    48
    49   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Even if that were so, that has nothing to do
    50        with my intervention.  I am not trying to stop you 
    51        following a valid line of enquiry.  One has a number of 
    52        witnesses who have already been asked quite a lot of 
    53        questions about it.  You have more to come.  We have not
    54        even started on your examination in relation to it.
    55
    56   MR. MORRIS:  We have nearly finished.  These are winding up
    57        points.
    58
    59   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  Just bear that in mind.
    60

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