Day 099 - 08 Mar 95 - Page 27


     
     1        A.  Yes.
     2
     3   Q.   But it does not -- possibly it does but I have not noticed
     4        it -- for all I know those two samples will be allowed to
     5        be above "M" as well, because a sample which is above "m"
     6        may also be above "M".  Do you see what I mean?
     7        A.  Yes, i think they are implying here -- they are
     8        basically suggesting a sampling scheme.  They are
     9        suggesting that if you take five samples which is the "m"
    10        number, then no more than two should be between "m" and
    11         "M".
    12
    13   Q.   I understand, but does it actually say that somewhere?
    14        A.  That is what is implied.  It is a similar -----
    15
    16   Q.   You might have a column "d" under which "d" under which
    17        there is a nought and the key to "d" would be numbers which
    18        are not allowed to be above "M", i.e. none are allowed to
    19        be above that.  Two are allowed to be above "m" but not
    20        above "M", but none are allowed to be above "M".  Does it
    21        actually spell that out somewhere?
    22        A.  I am sure it does.  This is standard notation really
    23        now.  It is used quite commonly within the industry for
    24        microbiological sampling.  That is always the way that
    25        I have understood it.
    26
    27   MR. RAMPTON:  Arising out of that, Mr. Kenny, what his Lordship
    28        may need help with -- I think I certainly do anyway -- is
    29        this:   So far as McKey's boneless beef specification is
    30        concerned, which is what this document is directed at, it
    31        would appear that 5,000,000 is the top limit?
    32        A.  Yes.
    33
    34   Q.   At any rate, it is called "unsatisfactory" at or above that
    35        level?
    36        A.  Yes.
    37
    38   Q.   Yet your specification for beef products allows a maximum
    39        of 10,000,000?
    40        A.  That is correct, yes.
    41
    42   Q.   Perhaps I can ask it first this way:  Does that mean that
    43        though McKey would regard anything, let us say, of
    44        8,000,000 as being unsatisfactory you would, nonetheless,
    45        accept it?
    46        A.  Under the McDonald's specifications that would be
    47        accepted, yes.
    48
    49   Q.   Do you know -- you may not know and, if so, please say so
    50         -- what the basis for the McDonald's 10,000,000 
    51        specification limit was or is? 
    52        A.  I do not know categorically, no.  I could hazard a 
    53        guess.
    54
    55   Q.   It is probably better if you do not do that.
    56
    57   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think I will treat it as a guess and not
    58        substantiated, but I would not mind hearing it in case we
    59        get some information in that area in due course.  What do
    60        you think, even though you may think wrongly, the reason

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