Day 260 - 11 Jun 96 - Page 48


     
     1        McDonald's was not a topic of conversation, at which
     2        neither of these Defendants was present.
     3
     4   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Carry on.  I do not want to hear the argument
     5        before Thursday, because I do want Mr. Hall's help on the
     6        question, and yet I do not want to lose over a day when we
     7        do not hear evidence because we are waiting for the
     8        argument.  So everyone just has to do their best and get as
     9        much evidence as we can out.
    10
    11   MS. STEEL:  I was not going to start the argument now.
    12
    13   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What I suggest you do is -- and I make this
    14        comment so you can think of it overnight, and I have said
    15        this before in another context -- if there are gems, as you
    16        would see them, in the notes which you want to bring up
    17        with a witness, then do.  But, otherwise, lay the broad
    18        structure of the points you want to make before him -- this
    19        you were hoping was one of them, that it might turn out
    20        that he went to many more meetings than Mr. Rampton said he
    21        did -- but broad points like that, and then we will see
    22        what my ruling is in relation to any further discovery; and
    23        you will have to ask yourself whether you want a witness
    24        back.
    25
    26        But you need not go into great detail in the note.  Pick
    27        out your plums, as you see them, and otherwise just put
    28        your broad points and illustrate them, if you want, by the
    29        odd reference to the notes.  That is all you need do.
    30
    31        At the end of the day, I am going to get a broad picture.
    32        I will condescend to detail where it particularly helps me,
    33        but I will get a broad picture of what was going on from
    34        all the evidence, including that called by you.
    35
    36   MS. STEEL:   Right.  I mean, if I just say that we were not
    37        going to go into an argument.  If Mr. Rampton, when he
    38        stood up, had just said there was only one other meeting,
    39        that would have been the end of it.
    40
    41   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Leave it now, and carry on.  But bear what
    42        I have said in mind.  Otherwise, with four inquiry agents
    43        who have made a number of notes of a number of meetings and
    44        a number of details, we could get lost in an absolute
    45        morass of detail, if we are not careful.
    46
    47   MS. STEEL:   I think we now move on to 2nd August.
    48
    49   MR. JUSTICE BELL: Are you going to use the notes, as opposed to
    50        the report? 
    51 
    52   MS. STEEL:   Yes, I am using the notes at the moment, yes. 
    53
    54   MR. RAMPTON:  Page 162, my Lord.
    55
    56   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Thank you.
    57
    58   MS. STEEL:   (To the witness)  On the second page, you refer to
    59        discussion -- well, it starts on the bottom of the first
    60        page -- after the letters part:

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