Day 258 - 07 Jun 96 - Page 59


     
     1
     2   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Are you leaving this particular memo now, or
     3        not?  Just everyone sit down for a moment.  There is
     4        something which has nothing to do with this case I want to
     5        attend to.
     6
     7   MR. MORRIS:  OK.
     8
     9   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes?
    10
    11   MR. MORRIS:  (To the witness):  So, the main purpose of the
    12        security or investigation efforts in your view for this
    13        demonstration, October '89, was to get good pictures
    14        of-----
    15        A.  Of as many people who were involved as possible.
    16
    17   Q.   Right.  The video cameras that are at the Headquarters?
    18        A.  Yes.
    19
    20   Q.   They would be routinely used for protests at Headquarters?
    21        A.  No.
    22
    23   Q.   They just happened to be on in 1990, 1991, and -----
    24        A.  Well, I think they were on in 1989.  I believe when
    25        I went down and spoke with Special Branch officer, they
    26        were using the room in which the monitors are in and it is
    27        my memory they were on, but they are not very good.  You
    28        cannot get good pictures on them.
    29
    30   Q.   So, they were being used on that day, but -----
    31        A.  It is my memory that they were.  I think Terry Carroll
    32        was wrong in that respect.  I feel quite sure, when I went
    33        into the room and spoke to the Special Branch officer
    34        first, the monitors were on.  But you do not get very
    35        good-----
    36
    37   Q.   It would be surprising not to have them on for something
    38        like that?
    39        A.  You do not get very good pictures from them.
    40
    41   Q.   Right.  We have seen them for the other years, anyway, have
    42        we not?
    43        A.  Yes -- no, I do not think you have.  The videos that we
    44        took in 1990 and '91 were hand-held videos.
    45
    46   MR. MORRIS:  Yes, sorry.
    47
    48   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  They are different things, are they not?
    49
    50   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, if the security cameras had video taped 
    51        anything of any relevance, the tapes would have been 
    52        disclosed. 
    53
    54   MR. MORRIS:  Can we ask for disclosure of those?
    55
    56   MR. RAMPTON:  I do not see the relevance of it.
    57
    58   MR. MORRIS:  Mr. Rampton seems very worried about this.
    59
    60   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I do not think he is.  I do not understand

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