Day 099 - 08 Mar 95 - Page 71
1 any of the evidence which has been given as to the
2 precautions which are taken against pathogenic bacteria
3 which we have had plenty of evidence so far in this case.
4
5 MR. MORRIS: So what are the causes of a temperature breakdown?
6 Is it just in a truck when it is about to deliver to a
7 store or something or to a restaurant? Is it just it goes
8 defunct or are there fluctuations in the temperature
9 controls?
10 A. No. The majority of cases where we have temperature
11 problems is where the actual machinery is broken, so it is
12 no longer pumping out cold air.
13
14 Q. So if it is broken it is not working at all?
15 A. Yes, or not working effectively.
16
17 Q. Or not working effectively?
18 A. Yes.
19
20 Q. Could you give the temperatures at which the various
21 pathogenic bacteria that have been identified start to
22 become active or spread? Shall we go through them by one
23 by one? You say you have got some knowledge of this
24 matter, have you?
25 A. Yes, I have some knowledge indeed.
26
27 Q. Could you give us the temperature, for example, for
28 botulism? What is the actual word for "botulism"?
29 A. You are asking me about the optimum growth temperatures
30 for a specific ----
31
32 Q. No, the temperature at which they start to become active
33 and multiply, the minimum temperature?
34 A. Well, above 6 degrees centigrade there will be some
35 activity, although it will be extremely slow.
36
37 Q. Never mind above 6. What is the minimum temperature for
38 botulinum where it can start to put ----
39
40 MR. RAMPTON: No, Mr. Morris' science is, I am afraid, way out
41 of kilter. The problem with botulism is it has nothing to
42 do with the organism. It is the toxin we all know -----
43
44 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Very well.
45
46 MR. MORRIS: I have not got the name in front of me.
47
48 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Clostridium.
49 A. Botulinum.
50
51 MR. JUSTICE BELL: What I think you could usefully do, you have
52 got this 6 degrees, that covers a number of potentially
53 pathogenic bacteria, does it?
54 A. It is a food industry standard really which all
55 bacteria, not just pathogenic bacteria.
56
57 Q. What I would like you to do is just give a very short
58 thumbnail sketch of why that is taken as a watershed, just
59 to get you started. It may be, for instance, that
60 pathogenic bacteria can multiply at 5 degrees centigrade
