Day 005 - 04 Jul 94 - Page 47


     
     1        one example.
              A.  We already do them.
     2
         Q.   I will give you an example.  The most dramatic and
     3        effective way of reducing packaging waste would be not to
              provide any packaging in its food, but food would be
     4        consumed on the premises on plates.
 
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That cannot be right because there has to be
              packaging, whether it is, I do not know, cardboard boxes,
     6        that cups arrive in the store in.
 
     7   MR. MORRIS:  I am talking about post consumer packaging which
              is what we are generally talking about.  Every item at the
     8        moment is packaged individually by the company, additional
              from when it arrives, into some kind of packaging and
     9        taken away by the consumers.  Would you consider as an
              option what they would call a cafeteria style approach?
    10        A.  No, when every study I have ever seen on the subject
              of packaging and carrying out the business in the way we
    11        do currently versus knives, forks, china plates, heated
              water, bacteria, broken plates, all that goes with it, the
    12        whole chain of energy consumed to heat water, to wash
              dishes, and all that goes with it, the disposable
    13        packaging is the preferred way to go.  It has a far less
              of an impact on the environment as evidenced by third
    14        parties, some of whom, I am sure, will give evidence in
              this case.
    15
         Q.   So if you felt that not using packaging but using knives,
    16        forks and plates, whatever was better for the environment,
              would you do it?
    17        A.  I am sorry -- using?
 
    18   Q.   If you felt that changing your style to not using
              packaging post consumer was actually better for the
    19        environment -- you are saying that it is better for the
              environment to have packaging -- but if you felt it was
    20        not better for the environment, would you change?
              A.  Well, it is not the point, is it?  Every study, every
    21        third party we have ever taken advice from, universities,
              outside organisations, says the opposite is true.  The
    22        overall environmental effect of using knives and forks is
              higher and bigger than we currently do.
    23
              We have chosen the opposite tack, the one pointed out by
    24        his Lordship a few moments ago.  What we can do something
              about in the immediate time, right now, is go after our
    25        external packaging.
  
    26        I mentioned on my first day of testimony that we have gone 
              to bulk syrups.  We have eliminated thousands of plastic 
    27        jugs and many, many cubic yards of corrugated paper; we
              have taken all of the external packaging off of our
    28        syrups; we have taken cardboard boxes from our french
              fried programme and tried to reuse them in keeping with
    29        the second priority on this list.
 
    30   Q.   Yes.  We are talking about post consumer packaging which
              some critics might say is a major cause of environmental

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