Day 166 - 28 Sep 95 - Page 57


     
     1        35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 or even 45 hours in a week.  That
     2        has been a complete mystery to me throughout this case.
     3
     4   MS. STEEL:  I do not think we have actually said that.
     5
     6   MR. MORRIS:  What we have said ------
     7
     8   MR. RAMPTON:  What is the cross-examination about that, I ask,
     9        if there is nothing wrong with it?
    10
    11   MR. MORRIS:  What we have said, for Mr. Rampton's benefit in
    12        case he missed it, is that we consider the non-payment of
    13        overtime to be illegal, but in any case immoral for working
    14        over 39 hours.  Therefore, the fact that a quarter of all
    15        their full-time staff are working over 39 hours and, in
    16        fact, the majority of the rest of their full-time staff, if
    17        you include their breaks which they do not get paid for,
    18        are also probably working over 39 hours, then the reality
    19        is it is something that is a standard practice in the
    20        Company.  That is our position, if it helps.
    21
    22   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I understand that, what I wonder is how that
    23        is being developed with this witness.
    24
    25   MR. MORRIS:  No, I understand.
    26
    27   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The other thing do not forget what I said
    28        some time ago now, that although it is true that on the
    29        occasion when I was paid hourly if one worked more than the
    30        basic hourly week which, I have to say, was considerably
    31        more than 39 hours, you got paid time and a half or even
    32        double time in some circumstances.  That is an awful long
    33        time ago and well over 30 years, in fact.  I am not
    34        prepared to just assume that it is common practice.
    35
    36        Do you remember, I gave you the illustration that I know
    37        because, I do not mind saying this, it is what happens to
    38        one of my children if he works more than whatever the
    39        normal hours are for a week, he does not get paid extra
    40        money for it, but he gets it in additional leave.  But it
    41        is only these little key holes on what is happening which
    42        are my experience.
    43
    44        So, if you are going at the end of the day to say that it
    45        is general practice, if you are on an hourly rate as
    46        opposed to, perhaps, a salary or something like that, to
    47        get paid time and a half or double time once you work over
    48        the basic week's hours, I want you to call some evidence as
    49        to that because -----
    50 
    51   MS. STEEL:  There was the Wages Council Order. 
    52 
    53   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Then produce it to me.
    54
    55   MS. STEEL:   We had it with Mr. Nicholson.
    56
    57   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Right.  But I do not know what the situation
    58        is nowadays.  It may vary from industry to industry.  I am
    59        not arguing that you are wrong about it.  I am just saying
    60        I will require some support, not just a declaration in the

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