Day 070 - 20 Dec 94 - Page 09


     
     1        statement, but he also says that if something remains as an
     2        ongoing controversy or issue -- which absolutely,
     3        certainly, Coope Montecillos is an ongoing issue, because
     4        of continuous applications and court cases in this country
     5        and other countries to do with "Jungle Burger", and -----
     6
     7   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  These points may be good or bad points but,
     8        on the face of it, you have an affidavit sworn by
     9        Mr. Cesca.  We do not have Mr. Cesca here.  There is no
    10        question of him going into the witness box to be
    11        cross-examined by you today, or even as soon as we come
    12        back next term, about these matters.  What you are doing is
    13        expressing reservations, which may or may not be justified,
    14        on the honesty of his affidavit.
    15
    16   MR. MORRIS:  We will leave that matter, but just say that we
    17        would like Dr. Gomez Gonzalez to come back earlier, if
    18        possible, than February, so that we can get this matter
    19        rolling as regards -----
    20
    21   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What I would say is, I think it is in
    22        everyone's interests that he comes back absolutely as soon
    23        as possible.  It sounds as though that will not be later
    24        than February.  Quite frankly, I think he should be here
    25        for a whole week.  That is not an invitation to question
    26        him for a whole week, but the sort of thing I can see
    27        happening is, quite apart from the necessary time in
    28        questioning, that something may crop up which has to be
    29        pursued while he is actually here and before he goes back.
    30        That is just a personal view as to what would be sensible.
    31
    32   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, I do, if I may respectfully do so, pick
    33        up what your Lordship has said about that.  Can I put it
    34        this way:  if one goes back to the leaflet and remembers
    35        what is said about the rainforest in the leaflet, there is
    36        a significant danger that because the Defendants, quite
    37        obviously, do not wish to grapple with the issues raised by
    38        the leaflet so far as the rainforests are concerned, this
    39        particular issue may get blown out of all proportion to the
    40        importance it has for the case.  To offer the Defendants,
    41        as it were, a week of grappling with Dr. Gomez Gonzalez is
    42         -- well, there it is.
    43
    44        One has seen what has happened in the past.  Give them
    45        three days, they will take three days.  They seem to think
    46        that they need to bat out time, even it is a timeless test;
    47        they seem to think they have to bat through till stumps.
    48
    49        I am very unwilling to go further in the rainforest issue
    50        than I absolutely have to.  I quite agree that Dr. Gomez 
    51        Gonzalez still has a lot of evidence to give about 
    52        animals.  That is quite a separate matter.  But he is not 
    53        the rainforest person, the principal rainforest person.  He
    54        knows something about it, that is clear.  It is Mr. Cesca
    55        who is the principal rainforest person.
    56
    57        What I do not want to happen, if it is at all avoidable, is
    58        that we should have the kind of cross-examination of
    59        Dr. Gomez Gonzalez on Costa Rica which we have already had
    60        and which, no doubt, if he is here for another week, will

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