Day 070 - 20 Dec 94 - Page 35


     
     1        need to look at the reamended particulars of justification
     2        and fair comment actually in their hard copy, because I am
     3        sure you have it in mind -- but there are specific
     4        allegations which, presumably, were based on some evidence
     5        which was available to you.  I know you are not strictly
     6        restricted to that, because you would want to add to it any
     7        specific allegations which are made in your statements but,
     8        ex hypothesi, if they are made in your statements, you are
     9        going to call direct evidence in relation to them.
    10
    11   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.  In terms of animal welfare, as I say, the
    12        witness that we do have from Jarrets slaughterhouse is not
    13        an animal welfare expert, as far as I am aware.  She deals
    14        with hygiene matters, hygiene and disease.
    15
    16        So what we would like to apply for now is to have the names
    17        of the slaughterhouses that supply McDonald's in this
    18        country.  In that way, we can look up public records or
    19        contact local authorities, or whatever, in terms of seeing
    20        if there have been any breaches of regulations or any other
    21        relevant matters.
    22
    23        At the moment, because we have been prevented access for
    24        our expert witnesses and we have been denied this far even
    25        the names of the slaughterhouses, then it is very difficult
    26        for us to get any independent evidence, apart from the
    27        Plaintiffs' documents and their own witnesses, which of
    28        course are selective and are going to be favourable to them
    29        and their witnesses.
    30
    31        So I think we are entitled to the names of the
    32        slaughterhouses, and then we can attempt to get direct
    33        evidence, if we can, from local authorities, or whatever,
    34        or maybe even seek further witnesses of employees.
    35
    36   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  If you did not get a list, presumably, when
    37        someone from McKey Foods attended, you would ask him where
    38        they got their meat supplies from.
    39
    40   MR. MORRIS:  We did ask one of witnesses, and the witness,
    41        Mr. Oakley, said that he would not give us the name, or
    42        Mr. Rampton objected, or something; and now we are making a
    43        formal application for those names to be given to us.
    44
    45   MS. STEEL:   The fact is that the Plaintiffs are making all
    46        these assertions about how wonderful these places are, and
    47        then refusing to name them.  It just means that it is
    48        impossible for us to verify what they are saying is true,
    49        whether what they are saying is true or not.  I think it is
    50        quite prejudicial to how we are able to conduct our 
    51        defence. 
    52 
    53   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What do you say about that, Mr. Rampton?
    54
    55   MR. RAMPTON:  I say something which perhaps I should have said a
    56        long time ago:  whatever the Court of Appeal may have said
    57        about the nature of pleading and its effect, the Court of
    58        Appeal said nothing about the burden of proof.  The
    59        Defendants have to make a case.  It is their misfortune if,
    60        because the Plaintiffs refuse to volunteer information

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