Day 130 - 26 May 95 - Page 17


     
     1        A.  It is.
     2
     3   Q.   So that is an inherently hazardous situation, is it not, in
     4        terms of the use of a fat filtering unit?  If the unit
     5        became live for whatever reason, it would be (as it turned
     6        out in this case) an extremely hazardous setup.
     7        A.  Well, if one piece of equipment becomes live, anything
     8        else that is earthed that somebody is going to put
     9        themselves in-between would give rise to a hazardous
    10        situation, so I cannot disagree with what you are saying.
    11
    12   Q.   Just going on to safety culture on page 4, in general
    13        terms, and there are exceptions.   "Safety is not seen as
    14        being important at store level.  It could not happen to
    15        us/me, is a common attitude amongst employees.  Employees
    16        are told not to tamper with equipment, to report faults to
    17        a manager and that electricity can kill.  Yet without a
    18        supporting safety culture where appropriate resources are
    19        allocated and employees can see the theory supported by
    20        example the safety message becomes diluted and confused."
    21
    22        There was a thing here about -- I cannot remember where it
    23        was -- about managers.  You said in your evidence --
    24        I think it was in-chief -- that this was an example, this
    25        incident, where managers had not been -- the words used
    26        were -- "brave enough" to seek the funding they would need
    27        for safety.  Why should managers have to be brave when they
    28        are asking for funds for safety matters, or why did they at
    29        that time have to be brave?
    30        A.  I think part of my frustration there was that, as you
    31        will have seen, various memos have gone out beforehand to
    32        restaurant managers, just explaining to them how important
    33        electrical safety, in particular, was.  My frustration was
    34        that the message just did not seem to have got through, and
    35        that perhaps the management team in this particular store
    36        had felt, for some reason, that they could not spend the
    37        money on those electrical repairs.  Now, I do not know what
    38        the ins and outs of that were.
    39
    40   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think what is being put to you is that
    41        there was such a feeling of not spending any more than you
    42        have to in order to make the profit margin as wide as
    43        possible, that managers were inhibited from coming forward
    44        and saying:  "We really need this or need that".  That is
    45        the way I have to say I interpreted -- perhaps not quite as
    46        strongly as I have just put it -- your comment the other
    47        day on this manager or manageress' view?
    48        A.  I suppose my best guess (and it is a guess) would be
    49        that she felt if she spent the money that she would have
    50        some negative feedback from her immediate supervisor. 
    51 
    52   MR. MORRIS:  If we go on to page 5, it is the middle paragraph 
    53        starting:  "Although it is not thought..." It says the EHO
    54        and Vince Kelly have concerns about aspects of the
    55        filtering machine, the design.  Do you share those
    56        concerns?
    57        A.  Well, yes, we shared them at the time.  Since then all
    58        machines have been retrofitted.  As I said, there was the
    59        additional heat shield at the bottom, as well.  Obviously
    60        we have taken that machine in good faith from the

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