Day 157 - 18 Jul 95 - Page 25
1 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Just pause a moment. Yes?
2
3 MR. MORRIS: And there should be CaseView and transcripts, and
4 that a copy be made available of any facility which the
5 Plaintiffs benefit from. It would be at no cost because we
6 are quite happy to photocopy transcripts ourselves at no
7 cost to public funds or to McDonald's Corporation. We will
8 return them the copy of the transcript if they so wish.
9
10 Moving on to costs from public funds, and we have made an
11 application to the Lord Chancellor to this effect, which
12 maybe we will bring that up specifically a bit later. If
13 I can take the court to Order 62, rule 3, which is page
14 1047 in the White Book, "Entitlement to Costs". If we look
15 over the page 3(3):
16
17 "If the Court in the exercise of its discretion
18 sees fit to make any order as to the costs of
19 any proceedings, the Court shall order the costs
20 to follow the event, except when it appears to
21 the Court that in the circumstances of the case
22 some other order should be made as to the whole
23 or any part of the costs."
24
25 Then there is a section about taxation. We would argue
26 that this means that order for costs which, at the end of a
27 trial, normally would happen at the end of the trial and
28 litigants in person or impecunious Defendants, such as
29 ourselves, the costs can be paid out of the public funds or
30 by, in this case, the Plaintiff, the other party; but that
31 that discretion of the court can be exercised at any time,
32 not just at the end of a trial, which is the effect of the
33 rule 3(3). It is a totally unfettered discretion.
34
35 MR. JUSTICE BELL: But it refers to costs already incurred.
36
37 MR. MORRIS: Does that mean that if we paid for -- well, it may
38 be an indication can be given if that is the case, that if
39 we incur costs, for example, on paying for transcripts,
40 that that cost will be paid out of public funds.
41
42 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Well, no. A time might come when you could
43 apply for the costs you have incurred to be paid by the
44 other side and then the appropriate tribunal, be it me or
45 anyone else, would decide whether you should have those
46 costs. If the payment of costs out of public funds, you
47 need to look at the powers which are set out. There are
48 innumerable cases of the Divisional Court, the Court of
49 Appeal, the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) and judges
50 at first instance as to the circumstances in which costs
51 can be paid out of public funds.
52
53 MR. MORRIS: Well, my understanding of rule 3(3) is that there
54 is no limitation on the exercise of discretion regarding
55 the costs of any proceedings, either at the end or during
56 the proceedings.
57
58 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It does not refer to costs paid out of public
59 funds there. Costs cannot follow the event and be paid out
60 of public funds because the State is not a party to the
