Day 269 - 25 Jun 96 - Page 77
1 A. The explanation, my Lord--
2
3 Q. What simple, plausible explanation might there be?
4 A. The simple, plausible explanation is that the European
5 countries adopted the dietary preventive measures far ahead
6 of Britain, and there are other explanations so far as
7 France is concerned. I could go into it in some depth if
8 you wish.
9
10 MR. RAMPTON: I am interested in what you say, but if it were
11 right one would expect them to have lower cholesterol
12 levels, lower blood pressure and to be less fat?
13 A. Not necessarily, Mr. Rampton, because Michael Oliver
14 did a very careful study of precisely that question. He
15 studied people in Stockholm and Edinburgh, and the reason
16 he wanted to study the difference between Stockholm and
17 Edinburgh was the fact that they had the same blood
18 cholesterol levels in Stockholm and in Edinburgh but the
19 people in Stockholm had a much lower mortality from heart
20 disease than did the people in Edinburgh. And he wanted to
21 know why, and he has published and make a reputation for
22 some of the results that he has done with the Scandinavian
23 versus Scottish studies, and the bottom line was that if
24 you studied the adipose fats of the people in Stockholm
25 they had less saturated fats and more linoleic acid in them
26 than the people in Edinburgh, and that changed Michael
27 Oliver's thinking because he was one of the strongest
28 antagonist towards diet and heart disease.
29
30 If I can permitted an anecdote I worked in Sweden in
31 1963 and when I was asked to Professor Baronnay's house --
32 he was the Professor who had invited me there -- he said:
33 "I hope you do not mind but we do not use hard fats in
34 this house, we only use these polyunsaturated
35 margarines." That was 1964 and that was 1963 and that was
36 the first time I had heard about this particular change in
37 peoples' diets on the continent.
38
39 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Can I just stop you there because one has got
40 to be terribly careful about national stereotypes?
41 A. Sure.
42
43 Q. In fact, we are getting far to much in another area at the
44 moment. But if one did want a stereotype I would, I have
45 to say, stereotype the Swedish population rather
46 differently to the French, Spanish or Greek. Now, that may
47 be complete misperception on my part?
48 A. Yes.
49
50 Q. But even if that is totally wrong, unhappily Sweden does
51 not appear in figure 29?
52 A. No, that is a pity.
53
54 Q. And let us suppose there is some merit in what you say
55 about Sweden. Can you take that across to France and
56 Greece?
57 A. Well, we can certainly take it across to Greece
58 because Greece has the lowest saturated fat intake.
59
60 Q. Because of the olive oil?
