Day 157 - 18 Jul 95 - Page 20
1 would mean that we should be provided with a copy of a
2 transcript in any event, but if we go to some specific
3 powers, if we can go to the White Book, Ord. 24, rs. 11 to
4 13, which is page 465 -----
5
6 MR. JUSTICE BELL: You are going on to discovery now, are you?
7
8 MR. MORRIS: This is the first of the points.
9
10 MR. JUSTICE BELL: If you are going on to discovery, you have to
11 go back a bit, have you not? Quite frankly, I would much
12 rather you came to discovery as a separate matter because
13 that is of -----
14
15 MR. MORRIS: I can do that one last, if you like, then.
16
17 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It is a matter for you, but I did not think
18 you were on the discovery point at the moment.
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20 MR. MORRIS: No, they are not in the best order.
21
22 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Because before discovery comes in you have
23 -- you may or may not get to it before the break -- to
24 bear in mind what appears at 24.25 at page 437. I do not
25 think you were on that point at all. It may be that,
26 I have not heard the argument obviously, before transcripts
27 could be subject of discovery, they would have to in the
28 context of this case amount to documents which contain
29 information which may enable you either to advance your own
30 case or to damage that of your adversary. You will
31 remember Mr. Rampton reading that the other day?
32
33 MR. MORRIS: Yes.
34
35 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Or at least fairly lead you to a train of
36 enquiry which may have either of these two consequences,
37 and what I put to you when we were arguing it the other day
38 was that the transcript does not do that, it is the actual
39 evidence which does that. There have been recent cases
40 where transcripts have been admitted in evidence. I think
41 there was one not so long ago where a transcript of a
42 judge's summing up was admitted as evidence of something
43 which had actually been said in the trial of which there
44 was no other available evidence and where there was an
45 issue about it, but all I say is at the moment, as I have
46 said in my ruling of 4th July, I do not see transcripts
47 falling into that category.
48
49 So what I suggest you do is come back to that as a separate
50 issue under discovery and stick to any power I have, apart
51 from under Ord. 24, to provide you with funds or to order
52 McDonald's to take a certain course.
53
54 MR. MORRIS: Certainly, on that last point, if we are unable to
55 take effective notes which, we would submit, that must be
56 true -- I have submitted my notes from last Friday as
57 evidence of that -- then the transcripts would fall into
58 the category of documents which would help us to advance or
59 to damage the Plaintiffs' case. If we did not have them,
60 of course, then specially they, therefore, become
