Day 089 - 15 Feb 95 - Page 64


     
     1        A.  Yes.  We have a salmonella reduction programme within
     2        the company, and we measure the incidence -- part of that
     3        is that we measure the incidence of salmonella in the
     4        intestines of live chickens coming into the poultry plant.
     5        So we take an organ called cecum off the line from birds as
     6        an indication of the carriage of salmonella organisms
     7        within the intestine.
     8
     9   Q.   We are not all anatomist.  What is the cecum?
    10        A.  Cecum is a blind sac attached to the intestine rather
    11        like the appendix in a human being.
    12
    13   Q.   Is it a organ in which one expect to find an accumulation
    14        of salmonella?
    15        A.  Yes, it would.  It is regarded as the dustbin of the
    16        intestine.
    17
    18   MR. MORRIS:  When you said live chickens coming into the plant,
    19        is that into the process plant?
    20        A.  Yes, correct.  So that in the samples of cecum that we
    21        take from the processing plant we find that 1 per cent of
    22        them are contaminated with salmonella.
    23
    24   MR. RAMPTON:  Does this mean, since cecum I take it is an organ
    25        which is confined to a single bird, not a shared organ,
    26        this means, in effect, does it, that one bird in every 100
    27        that is examined, at least, is found to have salmonella?
    28        A.  That is correct.
    29
    30   Q.   But the other 99 are not?
    31        A.  That is correct.
    32
    33   Q.   Carry on from there, please, with, as it were, the
    34        extrapolation given to Mr. North from the 1 per cent in the
    35        live birds brought in to the 25 per cent found in the
    36        product?
    37        A.  The 25 -----
    38
    39   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think his wording was that the salmonella
    40        burden in the end product was 25 per cent.  Is that not
    41        right?
    42
    43   MR. MORRIS:  That is what it says in the statement.
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  In his statement.  I remember we discussed
    46        what "salmonella burden" might be.
    47
    48   MR. RAMPTON:  I am not presently concerned at all with what
    49        Mr. North said.  I want to know what Dr. Pattison told
    50        Mr. North and what its explanation is, if it needs one. 
    51        A.  The explanation simply means ---- 
    52 
    53   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just say what you said.
    54
    55   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes, say what you told Mr. North.
    56
    57   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No one is expecting you to be word perfect,
    58        but what did you say as best you can remember?
    59        A.  The 25 per cent per cent refers to an isolation rate of
    60        samples of deboned meat at the end of our process.  In

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