Day 061 - 05 Dec 94 - Page 68


     
     1
     2   Q.   It is just that in practice?
     3        A.  Yes.
     4
     5   Q.   Would you just like to name the abattoirs you have been to
     6        specifically, McDonald's abattoirs, you have personally
     7        visited in the last, say, three or four years?
     8
     9   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, before the witness answers that question,
    10        I would like to know the purpose of it, if I may.  Your
    11        Lordship knows the reasons.
    12
    13   MR. MORRIS:  It helps in terms of identifying which abattoirs
    14        you have been to so that we can ask questions about them.
    15
    16   MR. RAMPTON:  How does the identity of the abattoir help
    17        Mr. Morris in asking questions about it?
    18
    19   MR. MORRIS:  I cannot see any problem with the witness answering
    20        the question.  I do not see why I ought to reveal my line
    21        of questioning.
    22
    23   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think you can reveal it without any
    24        detriment to your own case in this instance.
    25
    26   MR. MORRIS:  If you just tell us which regions of abattoirs you
    27        have been to?  I am not really bothered about the name of
    28        the abattoir.
    29
    30   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Why not put it this way:  You asked him how
    31        many abattoirs he, Mr. Oakley, knew of.  Mr. Oakley got up
    32        to five by region because he thought there would be one in
    33        Scotland and one in the north.  It sounded as if he knew of
    34        two in the Midlands and one in the South West.  He thought
    35        there might be more but those were the ones he thought he
    36        could speak to.  Why not ask him which, if any of those, he
    37        has been to by area?
    38
    39   MR. MORRIS:  Yes. (To the witness):   Have you been to all those
    40        abattoirs that you have mentioned?
    41        A.  No, I have been to two.
    42
    43   Q.   Which ones did you go to?
    44        A.  Both in the Midlands area which is the major
    45        area  -----
    46
    47   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I thought you were confident that there were
    48        two in the Midlands.  That is because you have actually
    49        been there, is it?
    50        A.  I have. 
    51 
    52   MR. MORRIS:  Just to go on to the subject of growth promoters, 
    53        you said that young cattle up to six months have had
    54        Clenbuterol, Angel Dust, whatever it was, that supply to
    55        McDonald's; and in some countries this was a problem, like
    56        in Belgium, but it is not a problem here.  Why is it a
    57        problem in Belgium but not here?
    58        A.  I think it has been misused in Belgium.  Hormone
    59        treatment is OK to give to an animal while it is young, but
    60        if you continue to give it to the animal so that it adds

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