Day 005 - 04 Jul 94 - Page 58


     
     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Is the fact that it is or may be harmful to
              some degree the end of the question, or does it depend on
     2        how harmful, balancing it against all other factors?
              A.  That is the point I have been trying to make.  When
     3        you take up the entire McDonald's packaging cycle from
              wraps on hamburgers compared to china plates, soap and
     4        water and emissions back into the system, when you analyse
              the whole thing on the basis of you can do this, or you
     5        can do that, every third party analysis of what I have
              even seen on the subject shows the McDonald's system
     6        currently used to be the least negative impact on the
              environment.
     7
              There may be elements that have an effect.  There are
     8        certainly far less of an effect than dumping detergents
              back into The Thames.  We have to balance the thing.  For
     9        this plus, there is this minus; for that minus, there is
              this plus.  We have tried do that in coming up with an
    10        operating system and a packaging system which gives us the
              very best of what is available in today's technology.  As
    11        technology moves forwards and allows us to do other
              things, we will try to incorporate those into our efforts.
    12
         MR. MORRIS:  Just a few more questions on this issue, packaging
    13        and waste.  Why did you, the Corporation, withdraw
              styrofoam clam shells in the States in the late 80s?
    14        A.  Well, my understanding is they were concerned with the
              amount of waste going into landfill.  They were rapidly
    15        running out of landfill and tried to attack the problem in
              that way.
    16
         Q.   Why were they concerned about that?  Did they do surveys?
    17        What happened?
              A.  But I think it is rather common knowledge that
    18        landfill in America is becoming scarce.
 
    19   Q.   Were you aware that there was a two year long campaign by
              school children and anti-toxic groups basically calling on
    20        McDonald's to stop using styrofoam package in America?
              A.  There may well have been; the fact remains it was as a
    21        result of landfill becoming short, so it has been
              explained to me.
    22
         Q.   Putting styrofoam in landfill is damaging to the
    23        environment?
              A.  No, it takes up space.  It uses up more space than a
    24        piece of paper would, so it will use up space in landfill
              more rapidly than a piece of paper will.  Some people
    25        argue it is a good thing in landfill as it creates air
              gaps, allows natural action to take place more rapidly 
    26        than it otherwise might. 
  
    27   Q.   Is that the view of McDonald's, McDonald's UK restaurants,
              or your personal view?
    28        A.  But I think this is rather a scientific fact, that air
              in landfills, packaging or materials in landfills which
    29        allows air to circulate will enhance the process of
              degeneration.
    30
         Q.   Are you aware of any surveys in America regarding the

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