Day 180 - 31 Oct 95 - Page 57


     
     1        A.  In the provinces, 10p when you could have expected 30
     2        in Inner London and, my opinion, high unemployment amongst
     3        young people makes this possible because -----
     4
     5   MR. MORRIS:  Sorry, makes what possible?
     6        A.  Makes -----
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I can follow; he does not have to spell
     9        everything out.  Yes?
    10        A.  Because if they had, in the crew jargon, stronger
    11        bargaining power in the labour market, then you would have
    12        had, as a minimum, pay rises keeping pace with inflation.
    13        You take away Wages Councils, take away the flaw, take away
    14        the minimum, the market prevails and the unequal nature of
    15        the employment relationship, the unequal nature of the
    16        employment relationship is -----
    17
    18   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause for a moment; I am trying to keep
    19        up.
    20
    21   MR. RAMPTON:  I am afraid to say I ought to interrupt because,
    22        not this particular piece of ------
    23
    24   MS. STEEL:  Can you interrupt in a moment?
    25
    26   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I want to get the answer down first,
    27        Mr. Rampton, and then you can make your point.
    28
    29   MR. RAMPTON:  I am sorry, my Lord, yes.  No, I did not meant to
    30        interrupt the answer.  Let him finish the answer, but I
    31        want to come back to something else.
    32
    33   THE WITNESS:  Then I think the -----
    34
    35   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I am sorry, I may be being very slow but it
    36        is important I get it right.  Yes?  Just say what you were
    37        going to add and then I will hear what Mr. Rampton wants to
    38        say.
    39
    40   MS. STEEL:  I think you were saying the nature of the employment
    41        relationship, take away the minimum, the market prevails
    42        and the unequal nature of the employment relationship is
    43        ------
    44        A.  Is revealed.
    45
    46   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause there.  Yes, Mr. Rampton?
    47
    48   MR. RAMPTON:  I am sorry, my Lord, it was just that Ms. Steel
    49        made it sound as though Mr. Davis had said that the -----
    50 
    51   MS. STEEL:  No, I said Mr. Richards. 
    52 
    53   MR. RAMPTON:  Sorry, Mr. Richards it says actually in the
    54        transcript that I have got.  I will give your Lordship the
    55        reference.  One would not want the witness to proceed on a
    56        false basis which is that on 3rd October, Day 168, it made
    57        it seem as though Mr. Richards had said that the basic
    58        starting rate was £3.05.  He did say that in relation to
    59        under 18s.  What he said was that -- I think this is right
    60         -- the starting rate for the 18s and overs was £3.20.

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