Day 309 - 03 Dec 96 - Page 31
1 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I would be grateful if at some stage you or
2 Mr. Atkinson could give me a reference.
3
4 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, we will. So far as the actual document was
5 concerned, it only states the grill temperatures. It does
6 not state in the Operations Manual, so far as I can tell,
7 what the internal temperature should be. But there
8 certainly was evidence about it.
9
10 MR. JUSTICE BELL: There was evidence of a stage where it said
11 that, in effect, the view was taken, though what matters at
12 the end of the day is what the temperature is in the middle
13 of the patty, and so we go over to that. Obviously, you
14 have to have your grills at a certain temperature and you
15 have to have your patties cooked for a certain period of
16 time, but the ultimate test is no longer so many seconds at
17 such and such a temperature, it is what the temperature in
18 the middle of the patty is. I understand that, but I have
19 forgotten just what the standard was before that switch of
20 approach was made.
21
22 MR. RAMPTON: I have too, and I am not going to attempt it. It
23 is somewhere near 70, either 70 or 72, I think. I am not
24 at all sure. I will ask Mr. Atkinson to find it. It will
25 not take very long. I apologise for having brushed rather
26 lightly over some of the detailed technical evidence about
27 food poisoning. The reason for that is that really, on the
28 case as presented through the evidence of Mr. North, the
29 risk is not negligible because no sane food retailer would
30 neglect the risk, but it really is so slight that spending
31 a long time, a lot of paper and many hours hacking over the
32 difference between one degree and another, probably,
33 I thought (maybe wrongly) would not actually be a very
34 useful way of spending time.
35
36 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. Thank you. Then page 15, residues,
37 really comes back to what I was asking you not so long
38 ago. At 6(3), you say "may squeeze into the case
39 under...."
40
41 MR. RAMPTON: I am not prepared to argue that it is totally
42 irrelevant. It is in the leaflet. Your Lordship would be
43 entitled to think -- and I would not, I dare say, go to the
44 Court of Appeal if I disagreed -- that what is in that box,
45 although I, myself, believe that the one is a much more
46 serious allegation than the other, the two allegations are
47 broadly related; they are two strands of a common theme.
48
49 MR. JUSTICE BELL: All this is quite apart from whether the
50 evidence comes anywhere near proving any kind of risk.
51
52 MR. RAMPTON: Of course. In this section, I have to say, apart
53 from meaning (which obviously is a serious matter), in this
54 section I am bound to say it has appeared to me that the
55 evidence of Mr. North on food poisoning is conclusive in
56 the Plaintiffs' favour and his evidence on residues is
57 inadmissible because it is hearsay, and that is the end of
58 it -- which is why it is quite a short section.
59
60 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. Thank you. Advertising, divider 2, was
