Day 079 - 27 Jan 95 - Page 18


     
     1
     2   Q.   Since in something like this, belt and braces are
     3        justified, you get a look at both ends of the matter?
     4        A.  We do everything we can, sir.
     5
     6   Q.   Right.  All that Ms. Steel was taking, as it were, as read
     7        when she asked the question whether you think you ought to
     8        have known of an outbreak, if there was one, in either
     9        Oregon or Michigan in 1982.
    10        A.  My Lord, I know of outbreaks in the United States of
    11        America but I do not -- I have no knowledge of any in
    12        McDonald's.  I know of an outbreak of E.coli in America
    13        which was associated with unpasteurised cider.  The
    14        question I was asked, concerning McDonald's, I do not know
    15        of any specific outbreak of E.coli connected with
    16        McDonald's in the United States of America.  I know of an
    17        outbreak of E.coli in well-water and, as a matter of fact,
    18        I think that was Oregon, but I was not going to say it
    19        because this document infers it was McDonald's.
    20
    21   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The question was just whether you -- I want
    22        to make it more general:  So you knew something about some
    23        outbreak in Oregon?
    24        A.  Yes, my Lord.
    25
    26   MS. STEEL:  That was meat, was it, meat patties, the one you had
    27        heard about in Oregon?
    28        A.  No.  The one I heard about in Oregon was well-water.
    29        The other one I have heard about was in unpasteurised
    30        cider.  The United States Department of Agriculture did an
    31        investigation right back to cattle eating in the orchard
    32        where the apples were picked from.  But that is the sort of
    33        thing that we have to do technically, is keep up-to-date.
    34
    35   Q.   If this outbreak of food poisoning did occur in 1982 and it
    36        involved McDonald's, do you think that you ought to have
    37        been made aware of it so that you were aware of the dangers
    38        of E.coli 0157 in meat products at that time?
    39        A.  If it was in McDonald's I would have thought, yes, that
    40        it should have come down an information chain.
    41
    42   Q.   But McDonald's did not tell you.  Did Dr. Jeff Banks ever
    43        mention anything about this outbreak in 1982?
    44        A.  No, he did not.  He was the man who told me about the
    45        well-water and the cider, as a matter of interest.
    46
    47   Q.   Your impression was that it was something that had just
    48        started happening four years ago?
    49        A.  No.  I said that four years ago E.coli suddenly became
    50        a very important item in food technology. 
    51 
    52   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, his actual words were:  "It did not 
    53        become a worldwide consideration until four years ago" when
    54        originally asked the question.
    55
    56   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Anyway, the position, so far as this
    57        concerned, you do not know whether it was McDonald's ---
    58        A.  No, my Lord.
    59
    60   Q.   -- and if they had a McDonald's outbreak in 1982 (which is

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