Day 290 - 30 Oct 96 - Page 21


     
     1        Yes, because on day 96....  This is quite odd actually.
     2        This is completely different to what he said the first
     3        time.  Day 96, page 2, I asked him:  The system for the
     4        piglets after they are removed from their mothers, did you
     5        say that it is the same for the indoor as well as the
     6        outdoor pigs.  Which I am sure he did say the first time
     7        round.  He said, and this is at line 58 on page 2:  No, it
     8        is not the same.  I believe I described when I was here
     9        last time that the outdoor system, pigs are weaned into
    10        what we call kennels, then the indoor pigs, they are put
    11        into converted traditional buildings.  I said:  Like a barn
    12        that has been converted.  And he said:  A straw yard, yes,
    13        which has been used obviously in various ways in the past.
    14        I don't know, he called them indoor kennels.
    15
    16   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   I do not think you need puzzle about what
    17        his motives were.  It seems to me he may have just
    18        misunderstood what he was being asked on the earlier
    19        occasion.  What you say is the import of it is that outdoor
    20        weaners, at least until they are about 40 kilos, go into
    21        outdoor kennels and indoor ones go into large barns.
    22
    23   MS. STEEL:   Yes.
    24
    25   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is what you say is the ultimate effect
    26        of his evidence.
    27
    28   MS. STEEL:   Yes.  He said about removing piglets from their
    29        mothers at 24 days, quote:  I think it would be absolutely
    30        wrong to say there is no distress, that is quite wrong,
    31        there would be some distress caused.  That was on day 88,
    32        page 23.  He said that when he was a boy, they were weaned
    33        at eight weeks.  I mean, he said that there would be at
    34        every stage, no matter what the age, there would be
    35        distress.  Obviously, certainly for the piglets it is going
    36        to be greater the younger they are.  In any event, the fact
    37        is that they are caused distress.
    38
    39        I mean, we have heard about pigs being sociable animals and
    40        tending to stick together with their kind of family and so
    41        on, and if they were not deliberately separated I am sure
    42        that that would carry on.
    43
    44        The weaners were kept in the kennels, be they indoor or
    45        outdoor, depending on the different streams, the two
    46        different streams, and that they were brought into the
    47        finishing units at 40 kilograms for the outdoor pigs, the
    48        freedom foods, and at 30 kilograms from the indoor
    49        kennels.  The reference for that is day 88, page 8, line
    50        28. 
    51 
    52        On day 88, page 24, line 53 he said that the 40 kilograms 
    53        would be at 12 weeks old.  And on day 96, page 3, line 26
    54        he said that the 30 kilograms would be at aged 9 to 10
    55        weeks old.
    56
    57   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause a moment please.  Yes?
    58
    59   MS. STEEL:   He said that the pigs go to slaughter at 90
    60        kilograms live weight, which was roughly 25 to 26 weeks

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