Day 238 - 22 Apr 96 - Page 15
1 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Just pause. Are you going to identify where
2 these places are as we go along? That might be more
3 convenient. We have got to do it sometime, I think,
4 probably, and if they are on the maps which you put in this
5 morning, then we can do it there.
6
7 MR. MORRIS: Yes, OK.
8 A. Piracua is number 247 on this map.
9
10 MR. JUSTICE BELL: 24?
11 A. Where there is a little circle and it says "247".
12
13 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, and then it is written in in longhand.
14 Is that right?
15 A. Yes, that is right, yes.
16
17 MR. MORRIS: "In November 1986 the Guarani of Jarara indigenous
18 area were illegally thrown off their land". Where is that?
19 A. That is number 497. That is almost the bottom
20 right-hand side of the map.
21
22 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. Just let me make a mark.
23
24 MR. MORRIS: "Despite a number of court cases they have not yet
25 regained their land which is occupied by a farmer who
26 obtained a court order to prohibit the Indians from
27 entering their land. The farmer has been offered
28 compensation to leave the Guaranis' land. He has refused
29 and has submitted a claim to the land under the provision
30 of the new decree, 1775. Meanwhile a number of Guarani
31 have returned to occupy their land and are threatening to
32 commit suicide if they are expelled again."
33 A. So this is an ongoing -- well, all of them really are
34 ongoing conflicts.
35
36 Q. You have talked about Guarani people coming here to lobby
37 the European Parliament and you have helped to organize
38 that, but have you lobbied the authorities in Brazil at any
39 stage about Guarani?
40 A. Yes, we have. I mean, Survival has lobbied one of the
41 local federal judges in Mato Grosso do Sul as well as
42 FUNAI, which is the Government National Indian Foundation
43 which is the federal body responsible for indigenous
44 peoples. We are also working on putting in a submission to
45 the United Nations -- it has a sub-commission on human
46 rights which sits every August. Survival has consultative
47 status at the UN and we frequently use this system to bring
48 pressure to bear on governments which are not respecting
49 the indigenous peoples' rights.
50
51 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Can I make one point? I am interested in
52 the facts for the purpose of this case. I cannot be
53 interested in the lobbying which is going on. That is not
54 a comment on whether the lobbying is justified or not. It
55 just cannot affect my judgment in this case; do you
56 understand?
57
58 MS. STEEL: I think the purpose of it is just to confirm it is
59 still an ongoing conflict. That is all.
60
