Day 164 - 26 Sep 95 - Page 10


     
     1        kind of organisation and, query, whether you can argue:
     2         "Well, it is still unsatisfactory and that is the end
     3        result of employing a lot of people who are very young".
     4
     5        But your other point, I suppose, in relation to this is
     6        they have never got rid of a franchisee when there has been
     7        a violation.  I have to weigh the evidence in relation to
     8        that, how easy that is to (inaudible) with lots of other
     9        factors.
    10
    11        There may be two factors there, whether you get a general
    12        leave to amend in the form you want, or whether you get
    13        leave to amend just in relation to an allegation that they
    14        have never got rid of a franchisee for a child violation
    15        where, I have to say, if I granted you that leave, I would
    16        not be giving discovery in relation to it.  You would just
    17        be relying -- that would be far too onerous -- upon such
    18        answers as you got, for instance, from Mr. Stein.
    19
    20   MR. MORRIS:  That is the last point, No. 12, but -----
    21
    22   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, I mean, 12 might cover that, if that is
    23        the way my mind was going, having considered all the
    24        arguments.
    25
    26   MR. MORRIS:  Yes, but we would certainly say that all the
    27        specific cases are relevant in terms of being part of the
    28        picture.
    29
    30   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  Let us suppose there is some merit in
    31        that.  Where are the ones where you have actually got a
    32        specific allegation there?  You say (5) you have.  What
    33        troubles me about (3) or (4) and (4), you see, they are
    34        very general -- you would say (5) you have; you would say
    35        (6) you have, (7), (8), (9), (10) and (11).
    36
    37   MR. MORRIS:  I think (3) and (4) are, if you like, put in the
    38        context of describing the significance of specific
    39        violations which are occurring and also ones that have been
    40        specified.  I think in terms of when you lay out pleadings
    41        the context is important and that puts down our position of
    42        what the context is.
    43
    44   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You can argue context.  I will give serious
    45        thought to (3) and (4) but you can argue context.  As
    46        I have said time and time again in this case, some things
    47        you do not need evidence to support.  You will not have to
    48        persuade me that it is important that employers observe the
    49        law so for as young employees are concerned.
    50 
    51   MR. MORRIS:  But also, for example, on the lack of inspectors 
    52        and the lack of a practice of finding people, making it 
    53        difficult to identify -----
    54
    55   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Where is your evidence of that because you
    56        will not get that from McDonald's by discovery,
    57        interrogatories or any other way.  What is going to be your
    58        evidence?
    59
    60   MR. MORRIS:  We can get the evidence ourselves from those

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