Day 192 - 27 Nov 95 - Page 34


     
     1
     2   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What is the relevance of what this witness or
     3        another person there thinks about whether under-18s should
     4        be able to join a union?
     5
     6   MS. STEEL:  Because the Plaintiffs are saying that it is a
     7        legitimate tactic to advance this as a legal argument to
     8        prevent unionisation in the store.  Therefore, it is
     9        relevant what the witness feels about whether, aged under
    10        18, she is able to make up her mind or not about whether
    11        she -----
    12
    13   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I do not think a witness is going to help me
    14        on this.  If I ask the three of my children who have got
    15        past the age of 18 whether they should be allowed to join a
    16        union, they would say, "Yes, of course I should.  I should
    17        be allowed to do what I want, so far as that is concerned."
    18        Where that takes me, I do not know.  It may be a matter for
    19        argument.  But it does not help, quite frankly, to ask what
    20        a particular witness thinks in relation to that.
    21
    22        So far as the hearing is concerned, the matters which may
    23        have some significance seem to me the suggestion which
    24        Miss Inglis has made in her statement that Mr. Ballantyne
    25        paid witnesses $102 a day to give evidence; the suggestion
    26        you have made that he subpoenaed people, when there was no
    27        need to, in order to be able to pay them $102 Canadian a
    28        day; and, thirdly, that those who represented
    29        Mr. Ballantyne or his company prolonged the evidence of the
    30        people who were called, in order to pay them more days'
    31        worth at $102.
    32
    33        At the end of the day, the union and Mr. Ballantyne's
    34        company reached an accommodation which resulted in a secret
    35        ballot; and I am not going to read here arguments to and
    36        fro, which the parties no doubt sensibly resolved by
    37        reaching that agreement.  But I am interested in those
    38        matters or, rather, I see them as being relevant; and
    39        I will have to weigh the extent to which they help me
    40        towards a decision.  But I do not want to go into all the
    41        ins and outs of the Labour Court hearing.
    42
    43   MR. MORRIS:  I certainly was not intending to go into the ins
    44        and outs.
    45
    46        (To the witness):  You said he paid his witnesses a $102 a
    47        day.  Can you just explain this situation about the payment
    48        and what you know about that?
    49        A.  I do not know for sure, but I believe, in Canada, that
    50        people are -- at least, in Ontario -- you have to be 
    51        subpoenaed to go to court, because I was even served wit a 
    52        subpoena; and people are supposed to pay for your 
    53        travelling experiences, and such.  The way I understand it
    54        is that -----
    55
    56   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Why do you understand they have to be
    57        subpoenaed?
    58        A.  Because I had to be subpoenaed, and I would have done
    59        it voluntarily, and I was given travelling expenses.
    60

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