Day 019 - 27 Jul 94 - Page 62


     
     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think it is the actual dropping into the
              tray, you are being asked about.  Is it dropping or
     2        putting them down, if you see the distinction?
              A.  They are placed -- it is going to vary between
     3        individuals as to whether it is gently placed on, let us
              say, the breast of the bird, laying them down like that,
     4        or whether hey are just put up and dropped abruptly.  It
              will vary between the individual.  In general the Anglia
     5        Autoflow system facilitates a more gentle loading than
              some other systems, so it is to be commended.
     6
         MS. STEEL:   If you were going to pick up a chicken, how would
     7        you pick it up?
              A.  Are you talking about one chicken out of thousands
     8        which I have to pick up in the same day or are you talking
              about one chicken in isolation on one occasion only?
     9
         Q.   What is the nicest way to pick up a chicken?
    10
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  If you have to pick up a chicken for any
    11        reason, which would be best from the chicken's point of
              view?
    12        A.  From the chicken's point of view only and I do not
              have to do thousands of them?  That is quite important.
    13
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  I can see that, but that may be
    14        another part of an equation.  What about picking the bird
              up?
    15        A.  If it is a broiler of the sort of size we are talking
              about here, I would catch it around the body with the
    16        wings contained against the body.
 
    17   MS. STEEL:   You mentioned size.  I mean, is it likely to be
              uncomfortable for them to be hanging upside-down with that
    18        huge amount of weight?
              A.  Again, I cannot honestly comment on that.  People have
    19        attempted to answer the kind of question you are asking
              now.  The problem is -- I do not wish to get too involved
    20         -- you can measure heart rate as a stress indicator,
              fine.  If you put the bird upside-down, you get a rise in
    21        heart rate.  Then if you take an anaesthetised bird, one
              which is chemically anaesthetised, so you could do an
    22        operation on it, you hang it upside-down, the heart rate
              goes up.  There is a positional effect which makes it
    23        difficult to evaluate the stress of the response.  There
              are complications.  People have addressed this question.
    24        It is a very difficult question to answer.
 
    25   Q.   The module that Sun Valley use, I think you were saying
              there was a more severe problem than in other plants with 
    26        the heads being crushed.  That is right, is it not? 
              A.  That is correct. 
    27
         Q.   Is that something that could be avoided, do you think,
    28        with these modules?
              A.  It would need a redesign or a refitting of these
    29        modules to reduce that in the real world.
 
    30   Q.   In the real world?
              A.  By that I mean on a regular basis.

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