Day 081 - 31 Jan 95 - Page 26


     
     1        A.  It is inevitable in any sort of bulking, whether it is
     2        meat or milk or water.  When you add different sources you
     3        are, obviously, adding the different contaminations as
     4        well.  It is not really relevant to -- it does not indicate
     5        that the process should be banned, if that is what you are
     6        implying.
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What do you understand "salmonella burden" to
     9        mean?  Is it a term of art, if you talk of salmonella
    10        burden or E.coli burden?
    11        A.  It does not have any precise scientific meaning, sir.
    12
    13   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  If you think you know what it does mean,
    14        Ms. Steel, I would be grateful if you could put to
    15        Professor Jackson just so I cotton on, if you see what
    16        I mean, because at one stage it talks of a salmonella
    17        reduction programme, or Mr. North does, which has brought
    18        incidence rates in live birds to one per cent which,
    19        rightly or wrongly, I had understood to mean that across
    20        the board one in 100 live Sun Valley Poultry birds had
    21        showed salmonella.
    22
    23   THE WITNESS:  Yes.
    24
    25   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I was informed that the average salmonella
    26        burden in the finished processed meat was in the order of
    27        25 per cent; it is that which -----
    28        A.  Yes, sir, it is the second part I do not quite follow.
    29
    30   Q.   If you cannot help, there we are, but if you think you know
    31        what it means, put it to Professor Jackson so that -----
    32
    33   MS. STEEL:  I do not know, to be honest.  I presumed that it was
    34        25 per cent of the meat had some trace of salmonella.
    35
    36   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What, 25 per cent of the Nuggets or
    37        something?
    38
    39   MS. STEEL:  I do not know.  I do not know, to be honest.
    40
    41   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, we are going to ask Sun Valley about it,
    42        obviously.  We have not heard from them yet
    43        otherwise  -----
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, very well.  Yes?
    46
    47   MS. STEEL (To the witness):  You said that all the premises you
    48        visited had lab facilities, was that lab facilities on
    49        site?
    50        A.  Yes, on site. 
    51 
    52   Q.   Is that something that is important in terms of hygiene? 
    53        A.  The larger premises would have these.  It is certainly
    54        not a requirement but it does show evidence of good
    55        management, good policy.
    56
    57   Q.   If someone cleaned up using a cloth and they wiped down a
    58        contaminated surface, if they used the same cloth to clean
    59        another surface, would that spread the contamination or
    60        could it spread the contamination?

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