Day 195 - 04 Dec 95 - Page 42


     
     1        afraid it will take a little bit of time, but I hope we
     2        will finish it this afternoon -- because what I want to
     3        find out from you in large part is how much of this
     4        information is actually information which you know about
     5        and how much is simply stuff that you have been told by
     6        other people.  Do you understand?
     7        A.  Yes, I think I do.
     8
     9   Q.   Would you please turn to page 2 of the first statement?
    10        You see the second half of the page begins:  "One employee,
    11        Paul Jackson, was sacked because he was known to want to
    12        form a union amongst the crew members."
    13        A.  That is right.
    14
    15   Q.   All of that is report from somebody else, is it not?
    16        A.  I think that is -- that is correct, but -- yes, reports
    17        by somebody else.  That is true.  I do not have -----
    18
    19   Q.   Your direct knowledge only comes in again, does it not, at
    20        the top of page 3 with the sentence:  "On one occasion
    21        I was talking to a few crew members"?
    22        A.  Yes.
    23
    24   MR. MORRIS:  Can I ask a legal point?  If Mr. Rampton is saying,
    25        therefore, we should disregard it, he has to make it clear
    26        then whether any of this information came from any
    27        management at the store.
    28
    29   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, he has asked the questions he wants to.
    30
    31   MR. MORRIS:  Then he cannot rule out this as evidence unless he
    32        makes that distinction.
    33
    34   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  At the moment it is hearsay.  I asked
    35        questions about it and I got the same answer.  I cannot
    36        change the rules of evidence, as I have said before.
    37
    38   MR. MORRIS:  If any of the information comes from management
    39        grades, then .......
    40
    41   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No.  We had the argument the other day.
    42        I have not ruled on it yet, but you know perfectly well
    43        that McDonald's submission is that it is only evidence
    44        against McDonald's if it was by people who had authority to
    45        speak on that point.
    46
    47   MS. STEEL:  If I could just say, we did not have the argument
    48        the other day.  The Plaintiffs put their argument and we
    49        have not come back on it yet.
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, I understand that, but what I have said 
    52        is you heard the argument the other day from Mr. Rampton 
    53        and you know exactly what his stand is on it.  In due
    54        course, I will hear your argument and I will decide.  But
    55        all we are doing at the moment is laying the ground to find
    56        out.
    57
    58   MR. MORRIS:  It will be our submission that unless Mr. Rampton
    59        makes that distinction, we would say that it has not been
    60        shown to be hearsay.

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