Day 158 - 19 Jul 95 - Page 28


     
     1        ex-rainforest.
     2
     3   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, before Mr. Morris goes any further --
     4        I am terribly confused -- can I understand whether he is
     5        saying that the regions mentioned in the Vesty letter,
     6        which is the ones he is talking about at the moment, which
     7        we used on one occasion for McDonald's beef in this
     8        country, are habitually used by the producers in Sao Paulo
     9        for the permanent McDonald's restaurants in Brazil?  At the
    10        moment I am completely confused about what his case is
    11        supposed to be.
    12
    13   MR. MORRIS:  I think the Barretos -----
    14
    15   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  As I understand it, you are referring me to
    16        the latest bits ---
    17
    18   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.
    19
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  -- in support of the sentence you added at
    21        the end of proposed amendment 1.  It goes as wide as this,
    22        that if you use a cattle ranch anywhere in Brazil it has a
    23        knock-on effect on the rain forest.
    24
    25   MR. RAMPTON:  That I understand, my Lord.  We were on Mato
    26        Grosso and Goias which are the areas mentioned in the Vesty
    27        letter which, as far as I can tell, are nothing whatever to
    28        do with a regular supply of beef to McDonald's in Brazil.
    29
    30   MR. MORRIS:  First of all, it is not just cattle ranching
    31        anywhere in Brazil, although that would be an argument, but
    32        it would particularly apply to those cattle ranches in
    33        regions which border the Amazon region, as do Mato Grosso
    34        and Do Sul where they have a supply plant, as do Goias
    35        region where they have a supply plant and Minas Gerais
    36        where they have a supply plant and the River Paraguay flood
    37        plain which relates to the Barretos situation and Mato
    38        Grosso which was mentioned in the Barretos letter.
    39        But  -----
    40
    41   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  As I understand it, you have moved off for
    42        the time being what you say about any evidence to suggest
    43        that McDonald's beef comes from cattle actually ranched on
    44        land which was rain forest within a reasonable period of
    45        time, and you have moved for the time being anyway on to
    46        your knock on effect point.
    47
    48   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.  Yes, I think it is important to emphasise
    49        that it is not just cattle ranching anywhere in Brazil, but
    50        it is most logically in regions which are closest to the 
    51        Amazon region.  If I may continue with the ----- 
    52 
    53   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause a moment.  Yes?  What are you
    54        going to move on to now?
    55
    56   MR. MORRIS:  Can I just say that on the subject of the
    57        definition of tropical forest and rain forest, it is that
    58        in the Collins' map, the -----
    59
    60   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Look, what I suggest is that we break off now

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