Day 111 - 30 Mar 95 - Page 53
1 versa of meat.
2
3 Q. So if a company was concerned, say, for example, that they
4 thought their products might be infected with salmonella,
5 the TVC checks they do on those products would be no guide
6 whatsoever?
7 A. No.
8
9 Q. Is that correct? Would that be true of other pathogenic
10 bacteria as well, that the TVC check is some kind of
11 separate -- it is no guide to the actual pathogenic
12 loading?
13 A. No, it is no guide to the pathogenic levels, no. I
14 mean, the only thing is that you can use it as a
15 general -----
16
17 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, we are back where we were a little while
18 ago.
19
20 MR. MORRIS: I just wanted to clarify that. I think we can
21 leave the Jarrett documents. (To the witness): Is there
22 anything you want to say further about the whole issue of
23 EC licensing that you may or may not have covered already?
24 A. No, I am sure we covered whatever.
25
26 Q. Do the same concerns about the regularity of the TVC checks
27 and the helpfulness of them apply to the monthly E.coli
28 checks that Jarretts have said that they do? What I am
29 saying, is it an effective guide to the safety or otherwise
30 of the products that go through there every day?
31 A. No, it is not.
32
33 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Are you talking about E.coli generally or
34 0157?
35
36 MR. MORRIS: Sorry, 0157.
37
38 MR. JUSTICE BELL: If you look at page 2, for instance, and
39 thereafter, you will see that they are, broadly speaking,
40 monthly.
41 A. They appear to be once a calendar month but they are
42 not necessarily one month apart.
43
44 MR. MORRIS: Would that show you anything at all?
45 A. Well, it would show me that in that particular sample
46 from that particular batch of meat there was not any
47 E.coli. That is the only thing that it would show me.
48
49 Q. Would that help you in any way?
50 A. Well, it would help me to say -- to know that there was
51 no E.coli, E.coli 0157, on detectable levels in that
52 particular piece of meat. That is the only thing I could,
53 conclusion I could draw from that.
54
55 Q. Can you estimate or suggest what percentage of carcasses
56 following evisceration are going to have some E.coli or
57 some E.coli 0157 or campylobacter contamination?
58 A. No, it would be impossible to do.
59
60 Q. What is the assumption, the working assumption, you make
