Day 095 - 02 Mar 95 - Page 32


     
     1
     2   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Ask him the same question now he has seen the
     3        whole thing.
     4
     5   MS. STEEL:  The crate you saw there, would that be typical?
     6        A.  No, not like that.
     7
     8   Q.   Not like that?
     9        A.  No.
    10
    11   Q.   You have never seen a crate like that?
    12        A.  No.
    13
    14   Q.   How much bigger?
    15        A.  It is hard to make -- how much bigger in terms of
    16        I have seen variations.
    17
    18   Q.   Well, how is that different to the ones you have seen then?
    19        A.  I do not know.  They are not that.  They have never
    20        been anything like that.  I have never seen anything like
    21        that.
    22
    23   Q.   But in what way?
    24        A.  That the animal cannot move.
    25
    26   Q.   So, if they were like that you would think it was cruel,
    27        would you?
    28        A.  Again you are asking me to speculate.  I would like to
    29        see the whole thing.  This film shows angles.  It does not
    30        give you the entire picture.  It is hard to tell.  I need
    31        to make an entire valuation, not just like that.
    32
    33   Q.   If they could not turn round or move more than a few
    34        inches, would you consider that to be correct?
    35        A.  Again, if they are going to be there all of the time
    36        (I think we are getting into theoretical questions rather
    37        than the facts), I have a problem with that.  If they
    38        cannot move all the time they are there, yes, I have a
    39        problem with that.
    40
    41   Q.   If it was, say, three weeks?
    42        A.  If they were there for 30 minutes while the piglets are
    43        feeding, I do not have a concern with that.
    44
    45   Q.   If it was a week or two weeks?
    46        A.  I do not know.  You make assumptions.  I am used to
    47        dealing with facts.  I cannot answer that.  There are a lot
    48        of factors that go into that, not just one.  I never make a
    49        decision on a single fact.  I do not have an entire picture
    50        of what goes on. 
    51 
    52   Q.   Well, you do not have an entire picture of how your pigs 
    53        are produced now, do you?
    54
    55   MR. MORRIS:  I think evidence has been given in this court that
    56        McDonald's in the UK buys pigs and the sows give birth in
    57        farrowing crates in a significant amount of cases anyway,
    58        but they cannot move round -----
    59
    60   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What are you doing now?

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