Day 092 - 27 Feb 95 - Page 66


     
     1        do they still bunch up?
     2        A.  They still bunch up to a degree, yes.
     3
     4   Q.   So, effectively, if that is the maximum -- there is a
     5        debate whether exactly they would have this amount as an
     6        average or possibly slightly more as an average for each
     7        bird at the end.  If they are still bunching up they are
     8        going to have less than that per bird.  So towards the end
     9        of their lives each bird is going to be -- you know the
    10        size of birds, they are quite large, are they not, by the
    11        time they are nearly ready for slaughter, 3 kilos, yes?
    12        A.  Yes.
    13
    14   Q.   Something like that or more.  So, would you say that the
    15        minimum is uncomfortable and that somebody would be
    16        justified in calling it cruel?
    17        A.  No, it is not.
    18
    19   Q.   Is it uncomfortable?
    20        A.  No, it is not.  Let me tell you why.  Those stocking
    21        densities are based taking that into consideration.  Nobody
    22        ever said that the density is one square and do not move,
    23        we do not allow the chicken to move.  That stocking density
    24        is basing, taking that factor into consideration.  They
    25        will be moving around the house.
    26
    27   Q.   The fact is, Dr. Gomez Gonzalez, that you do not care at
    28        all what the birds feel, do you?
    29        A.  That is your opinion, sir.  It is not a fact.  That is
    30        totally incorrect.  I have proven and given a lot of
    31        evidence as to why we care about animals, so you could not
    32        be more wrong.
    33
    34   MS. STEEL:  You said that chickens do not have any wisdom.  Is
    35        that right?  That is your opinion?
    36        A.  What I have said is they do not have the wisdom of a
    37        human being.
    38
    39   Q.   So they do have some wisdom?
    40        A.  Very limited.
    41
    42   Q.   Are you aware of tests where birds have been given the
    43        option of flicking a switch to decide whether they want
    44        light or not?
    45        A.  Yes, I have seen it.
    46
    47   Q.   Right, and they do learn how to work that switch?
    48        A.  Yes, they do.
    49
    50   Q.   By and large they prefer to have the light on 80 per cent 
    51        of the time or something like that.  Is that right? 
    52        A.  Have what? 
    53
    54   Q.   Have the light on about 80 per cent of the time?
    55        A.  It depends on the different tests.
    56
    57   Q.   They have indicated a preference for the amount of time in
    58        those tests that they want the light on?
    59        A.  I am sorry, I am not following you on that question?
    60

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