Day 254 - 22 May 96 - Page 64


     
     1        I think he has used his words very carefully and saying it
     2        is likely it would be reasonable to advise the general
     3        public to eat decreased amounts of total fat and saturated
     4        fat.
     5
     6   Q.   So the type of diet that you want to avoid eating to cut
     7        down your risk of getting cancer of the breast and bowel is
     8        a diet high in fat, and saturated fats, and low in fibre;
     9        is that not right?
    10        A.  Can you say that again?
    11
    12   Q.   So the type of diet that you want to avoid eating in order
    13        to cut down on your risk of getting cancer of the breast
    14        and bowel is a diet that is high in fat and saturated fat
    15        and low in fibre?
    16        A.  Well, I do not think you can actually draw that
    17        conclusion from the statement which is published here.  One
    18        does not necessarily follow the other.  What he is
    19        recommending is based on the evidence that he has reviewed
    20        sensible advice in terms of protection, but it does not
    21        mean that if you ate more fat than that that it would
    22        increase your risk of getting cancer.
    23
    24   Q.   I am asking you the type of diet that you want to avoid in
    25        order to cut down on your risk of getting cancer of the
    26        breast or bowel is a diet that is high in fat and saturated
    27        fat and low in fibre?
    28        A.  As a scientist I would have to say that we have not got
    29        the evidence to actually say that, but what we have got the
    30        evidence to say is that if you have a diet which is high in
    31        fruit and vegetables that that is the most sensible way
    32        forward, and it would seem reasonable in terms of an easy
    33        way to avoid obesity, and we have already discussed the
    34        question of body mass being a factor in total energy
    35        intake, it is easy to cut down on fat because of the amount
    36        of energy per gram of food that fat contains.  I have got
    37        to answer you based on scientific evidence and proof.  What
    38        you are arguing about is the advice that one should give to
    39        the general population as a whole.
    40
    41   Q.   I am arguing about the type of diet that you want to avoid
    42        to cut down on your risk of getting these diseases?
    43        A.  What I am saying to you, though, is that it is fair to
    44        recommend what he has done, which is cutting down on fat
    45        and having plenty of fruit and vegetables, but it does not
    46        necessarily mean to say having more fat in your diet than
    47        is recommended here is necessarily harmful.
    48
    49   Q.   The point is that we are talking about risk and it may be
    50        that there are some people -- as we all know there are 
    51        people who smoke until they are 100 and they never get lung 
    52        cancer -- are not going to fit in to this particular 
    53        pattern, or whatever.  The point is that if you want to cut
    54        down on your risk you should avoid a diet high in fat and
    55        saturated fat and low in fibre; yes?
    56        A.  I do not think that one can necessarily say that.  As
    57        far as population recommendations are concerned, I think
    58        what we should be saying positively to people is that a
    59        diet which is low in fat and a diet which has a lot of
    60        fruit and vegetables may be protective.  It certainly would

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