Day 104 - 15 Mar 95 - Page 52


     
     1        degree of fear.
     2
     3   Q.   That is what the Farm Animal Welfare Council Advice to
     4        Ministers on the Handbook of Transport Poultry says.  Would
     5        you accept that?
     6        A.  Yes.
     7
     8   Q.   It is on page 15 of that document.   When Dr. Gregory
     9        visited your plant he reduced the depth of the neck cutter,
    10        did he not, to check about whether cutting the spinal cord
    11        would mask unconsciousness.  Do you recall that?
    12        A.  He did make various changes.
    13
    14   Q.   He was able to do that so that only 20 per cent of the
    15        birds have their spinal cord cut; do you recall that?
    16        A.  I do not particularly, no.
    17
    18   Q.   He does say that and if that is correct, is there any
    19        reason why the company could not have reduced the depth of
    20        the neck cutter immediately after so that you were not
    21        masking the signs of unconsciousness in birds?
    22        A.  I think we make adjustments to that sort of equipment
    23        all the time.  It is not a finite thing.  It is set up
    24        every day.  It is adjusted several times a day.  He just
    25        happened to see it at a point in time.
    26
    27   Q.   83 per cent of birds having their spinal cord cut would not
    28        be unusual though, would it?
    29        A.  I think we have been through all this before.
    30
    31   Q.   I am not sure, perhaps you can just answer that, that would
    32        not be unusual, would it?
    33        A.  I would say it would be unusual and, as I said, the
    34        vessel on the side of the neck must be cut.
    35
    36   Q.   So, on average then what percentage of birds do you say
    37        were having their spinal cords cut at that time?
    38        A.  I cannot answer.
    39
    40   Q.   You have got no idea?   So, you are not really in a
    41        position to challenge what Dr. Gregory said?
    42        A.  If Dr. Gregory says something why should I challenge
    43        it?  We called him in as an independent consultant and we
    44        asked him for his advice. He gave his advice and you have
    45        seen the results of the report.
    46
    47
    48   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The only comment I would make in relation to
    49        that is if, for any reason whatsoever, what he saw on the
    50        day or days when he expected was exceptional for any 
    51        reason? 
    52        A.  Yes.  That is right.  But I think also I would like to 
    53        make the comment that we did call him as a consultant and,
    54        in a sense, I felt that that was the responsible thing to
    55        do at the time.
    56
    57   MS. STEEL:   I am not quite sure about that last answer.
    58
    59   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The point which Dr. Pattison has sought to
    60        make from time to time is you have implied criticism that

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