Day 285 - 23 Oct 96 - Page 25
1 MR. MORRIS: So anyway, I will move on. Can I just say
2 something on this subject of attitude to policy?
3 Mr. Nicholson said on day 121, which was actually numbered
4 122 in the transcript but I think it is 121, at page 23,
5 line 55, there was a discussion in fact over a couple of
6 pages about whether there was any... about a breach of
7 policy on employment issues. He said, "It is only
8 policy", so I said, "It is OK for managers to break the
9 policy?" Then he said, "They may have to, the policy is a
10 guideline, the policy is that is what we would like to
11 happen in a beautiful world, but there are difficulties".
12 Then I have not got the second page, something about "we
13 accept managers' rights to take what action they think
14 necessary", and then there was a general discussion about
15 it when he said some policies were not breachable and the
16 only example he could think of was something that was
17 actually against the law such as paying people incorrect
18 pay. And he could not think of a single example of
19 employment rights at work.
20
21 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No, I accept that all policies are
22 breachable. In fact, there are lots of cases in other
23 areas where local authorities and so on have got
24 themselves into trouble because they have stuck to a
25 policy come what may when fairness would require them to
26 do otherwise.
27
28 MR. MORRIS: Well, his view was the policy is a guideline.
29
30 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, that is what I would normally treat it
31 as. That supports your argument.
32
33 MR. MORRIS: I would say that supports our argument. Further,
34 to pray in aid what Mr. Oakley said when he was -- (Pause)
35 I have not got what he said. When we asked him about the
36 company's environmental policy, I think I may have read
37 this out last night. I was going ahead of myself. About
38 their environmental policy generally and he had seen it on
39 a wall at the head office. He said the policy had not had
40 any direct effect on the environment, but it certainly did
41 on the communications department.
42
43 MR JUSTICE BELL: Yes, you mentioned that yesterday.
44
45 MR. MORRIS: I may have mentioned it yesterday. I was a bit
46 ahead of myself yesterday.
47
48 MR. MORRIS: To get a bit more down to earth, how are these
49 policies that are, we would say, not credible and not even
50 offering any protection in any event, supposedly
51 enforced? They rely on their suppliers, and Dr. Gonzalez
52 -- I think it was a reference, I don't know if I read out
53 the actual day reference before, it was day 69, page 44,
54 line 3. Sorry, that was where he would not believe they
55 would risk their business for a few pounds. But then,
56 later, I think it was later, said that they would in fact
57 lie for commercial gain, or that was the impression he was
58 giving.
59
60 MR. JUSTICE BELL: When did he say that?
