Day 061 - 05 Dec 94 - Page 52
1
2 Q. Dr. Gregory said, as far as I recall, that the stunning and
3 killing methods at Sun Valley did not comply with the
4 government's codes of practice and might lead to distress
5 and pain to the birds. This was, as far as I remember,
6 regarding the throat-cutting technique used which he said
7 he was surprised about. Do you know of any warning that
8 you gave to Sun Valley -----
9
10 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, I am sorry, this is not good enough.
11 Ms. Steel, if may use one of Mr. Morris' phrases, put her
12 foot in it when she tried this a moment ago. Mr. Morris
13 has really got to give chapter and verse so we can check
14 whether Dr. Gregory did say what Mr. Morris is representing
15 to the witness that he said. If Mr. Morris is going to put
16 a question about Sun Valley, let him do so. If he is going
17 to represent the evidence of another witness, then he has
18 to do so accurately with chapter and verse, with respect.
19
20 MS. STEEL: Can I just say that Mr. Rampton was saying that
21 I was misquoting Mr. Gregory. I did actually ask him on
22 page 8 of July 27th: "Would it be right that by the time
23 the shed is cleaned out about 70 or 80 per cent of the
24 environment/index.html">litter would be composed of faeces?" He said: "By weight
25 or volume? In what respect?" Then he said he had not
26 actually assayed it, so he could not be certain. Then
27 I put to him: "By the time, say, they are 53 days old ...
28 the majority of the environment/index.html">litter will be composed of faeces?" He
29 said: "I think that is not a very true representation in
30 so far as the environment/index.html">litter does actually work microbially. So,
31 for instance, certain components, particularly the
32 nitrogenous component, can be broken down. It will
33 eventually evolve in ammonia under some conditions, which
34 can be unpleasant, but it depends on how the environment/index.html">litter is kept
35 as to what it will release to the atmosphere. But it is a
36 source of heat". The basic point is that it does not get
37 cleaned out and it does still remain. He did recognise
38 that it was not cleaned out, was the point.
39
40 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, I know but I thought you were putting
41 that he had accepted that.
42
43 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, what was being put was, in effect, it was
44 filthy dirty and any sane person would realise that and
45 Dr. Gregory said so. But, in fact, Dr. Gregory said
46 nothing of the kind.
47
48 MR. JUSTICE BELL: The danger is, you see, when you summarise
49 something it takes on the interpretation you would wish to
50 put on it, which may or may not be the interpretation which
51 I or someone else would put on in due course. So that if
52 you want to put something to one witness which another
53 witness has said, you must put what he has actually said
54 rather than your interpretation.
55
56 MS. STEEL: I think the point I was trying put to Mr. Oakley was
57 that most people would not consider it to be clean for
58 chickens to spend the whole of their lives in sheds which
59 were not cleaned out until they were slaughtered. That was
60 the point that I was trying to put to him.
