Day 018 - 26 Jul 94 - Page 58


     
     1        A.  I think they do a sound job within the present
              systems.  We can always strive for better systems.  I do
     2        not think it is always their responsibility to do that
              striving, because some of them require considerable
     3        imagination, gambling as to whether a particular idea is
              going to work, and they are not in that line of business.
     4        They are just not experienced or they do not have the
              facilities necessary to do that type of thing.
     5
         Q.   Will they listen to people like you who may give them
     6        advice, perhaps even criticism?
              A.  Absolutely, and I can give you some examples of that,
     7        if you wish.
 
     8   Q.   With these four undertakings or with -----
              A.  With these -- with two of the companies in question.
     9
         Q.   Which two are those?
    10        A.  With Sun Valley, they are linking in with us in trying
              to develop a better stunning system for poultry.
    11
         Q.   Which is the other one?
    12        A.  Midland Meat Packers are about to buy through us a
              piece of equipment -- of which we do not get any profit,
    13        I must add -- through us a piece of equipment which will
              change them from captive bolt stunning to electrical
    14        stunning for cattle.
 
    15   Q.   Is electrical stunning for cattle a widespread practice in
              the western world, so far as you know?
    16        A.  It is not.
 
    17   Q.   Is it a new development?
              A.  It is.
    18
         Q.   Has it been developed by Bristol University?
    19        A.  It has not.
 
    20   Q.   So has it been developed commercially yet?
              A.  It has.  We have evaluated it according to what the
    21        Ministry of Agriculture Fishery and Food in the United
              Kingdom perceives to be the criteria it should meet in
    22        order to be satisfactory.  So, we have done trial work to
              evaluate its effectiveness.
    23
         Q.   You have told Midland Meat Packers about it, have you?
    24        A.  Yes, they are -- this last week they saw some work
              that we were doing on it and they said, yes, they want to
    25        go ahead and take the equipment.
  
    26   Q.   They said, yes, they want to go ahead and use it.  Does it 
              have commercial as well as animal welfare benefits, this 
    27        new system?
              A.  That is a good question because I honestly do not
    28        think it does have.  From a commercial point of view,
              purely commercial point of view, they are spending a lot
    29        of money and I do not see what commercial benefits they
              are getting.
    30
         Q.   Can you return, please, Dr. Gregory, to this piece of

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