Day 129 - 25 May 95 - Page 18


     
     1        A.  As I say, I have never seen it before and I did not
     2        know it existed, so I really would not know why it was not
     3        included.
     4
     5   Q.   Do you know why, in general, apart from the questions on
     6        the back of the forms -- they are separate, are they not?
     7        They are what the crew have to answer themselves?
     8        A.  On a normal OCL, yes.
     9
    10   Q.   Yes, the ones on the front, there are no marks for carrying
    11        out the work to be done in a safe way?
    12        A.  No, I am sure in putting it together, in putting
    13        together the steps that are involved in working on each
    14        station, if those steps are followed, then the work is
    15        carried out safely.
    16
    17   Q.   Do you not think it would be a good idea to have specific
    18        marks on whether or not an employee is carrying out the
    19        work safely, so that they get the impression that it is
    20        something that you feel is important and that they are
    21        going to be checked on?
    22        A.  Certainly, some of the questions on the normal OCLs do
    23        refer to working safely and their knowledge in terms of
    24        what that means.  In terms of having a general comment on
    25        there, it is possibly something that we should consider.
    26
    27   Q.   I mean, you say about asking questions, but there is
    28        nothing about what they are doing in practice as opposed to
    29        what they may be able to repeat?
    30
    31   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, is that a question about this particular
    32        check list or is it about the check lists in general?
    33
    34   MS. STEEL:  The check lists in general.
    35
    36   MR. RAMPTON:  If it is a proposal, then I am afraid it falls on
    37        its face because it is not so; it is an assertion.
    38
    39   MS. STEEL:  I am aware of one vague mention on one of the check
    40        lists so -----
    41
    42   THE WITNESS:  There are usually two questions on every check
    43        list -- on every -----
    44
    45   MS. STEEL:  No, I am talking about -- the front side is watching
    46        the crew members at work?
    47        A.  That is correct.
    48
    49   Q.   That is when they are actually doing the things in
    50        practice? 
    51        A.  Yes. 
    52 
    53   Q.   The back of it is questions about their knowledge?
    54        A.  That is right, and when you have a look at the safety
    55        audit, you will see that the middle section there is about
    56        observing people carrying out procedures and seeing if they
    57        are following the safe way to do it.  That is done
    58        separately.
    59
    60   Q.   Right, but what I was asking was, do you not think it would

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