Day 030 - 03 Oct 94 - Page 73


     
     1        A.  Again explain what I understand the status of this
     2        recommendation as being.  After "Avoid being overweight",
     3        it then goes on to say:  "Cut down on fats" -- this is in
     4        the context of cancer, of course -- "spread less butter or
     5        margarine; try skimmed or semi-skimmed milk; choose low
     6        fat cheeses; cut down on amount of oil and lard; cut down
     7        on fatty meats such as sausages and pork pies; cut off fat
     8        from meat; try fish" etc. etc.  Then: "Do not fry too
     9        often; grilling, roasting or stewing is better.  Eat
    10        plenty of fibre, fruit, beans and peas. Fibre helps the
    11        digestion. It also helps prevents constipation" etc. etc.
    12        Then it says: "There is, of course, no guarantee that by
    13        following this advice you will protect yourself against
    14        any form of cancer, but you may reduce the risk of some
    15        forms and any case is all good advice for your general
    16        health".
    17
    18        What you see here, effectively, is an intermediate stage.
    19        In the UK at that time the advice was, the dietary advice
    20        to reduce your risk of cancer was in an intermediate
    21        stage.  The advice here is what sometimes known as
    22        "prudent advice"; that is, in effect, what it is saying
    23        is the advice on cardiovascular disease is, effectively,
    24        solid; the evidence on cancer is consistent with that on
    25        heart disease, and there is no reason to believe that in
    26        following that advice you can possibly do yourself any
    27        harm, you will only do yourself good; therefore, follow
    28        the advice, primarily for heart disease; secondly, perhaps
    29        also for cancer.
    30
    31        That is the gist of the position.  That has been the gist
    32        of the position in the UK, although, as I said before, not
    33        in other European documents, not from WHO, not in the
    34        States.  I dare say that if the government in this country
    35        had taken the position that the government in the US had
    36        taken, this part of this trial would not be happening.
    37
    38   Q.   Can we look and see, you mentioned WHO -- I am not sure I
    39        know which WHO documents are in here.
    40
    41   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Mr. Rampton, how far are you going to get,
    42        do you think, this evening?
    43
    44   MR. RAMPTON:  I have to go through some of this material.
    45
    46   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think you have.  If you had been within a
    47        hair's breadth of finishing, we might have sat on.
    48        Bearing in mind you clearly have to ask more, is that as
    49        good a time as any to break off?
    50 
    51   MR. RAMPTON:  Absolutely. 
    52 
    53   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think, perhaps, we should talk about what
    54        further documentation you need, first of all.
    55
    56   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, I would like to see all the documents in
    57        their entirety from which pages or passages have been
    58        extracted by Mr. Cannon.  It does not necessarily mean
    59        that there is anything more in them of relevance than he
    60        has extracted.  But nevertheless I would like to see them.

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