Day 105 - 16 Mar 95 - Page 25
1 them are the same ones that you get E grades on the 25th?
2 A. Yes.
3
4 Q. So they do not appear to have taken any notice?
5
6 MR. JUSTICE BELL: The word "failure" you used and then
7 corrected may have hit the nail on the head, I do not know
8 that he is a failure at the moment. Can you help us about
9 that?
10 A. It is not a failure insofar as that presents a major
11 risk of contamination. It is indicating (and this will be
12 confirmed by the crosses placed by those Es on the second
13 occasion) that it is time to be checking up on the cleaning
14 procedure.
15
16 MS. STEEL: In the hope that they are going to do something
17 about it and improve the situation?
18 A. I am not a manager of Jarretts, but if I were in the
19 management situation, I would use the word "expectation"
20 rather than "hope". But, again it is within the band of
21 acceptability for this type of microbiological check.
22
23 Q. So, if it is your expectation that it would improve, then
24 would it worry you that it has not improved?
25 A. It would worry me as a manager because people were not
26 following my instructions as an adviser on public health.
27 It would not worry me insofar as I would not believe that
28 this presented a major risk to health through
29 contamination. It is again within a broadly acceptable
30 range and it is a management indicator.
31
32 Q. These tests, they were carried out at 5.45 in the morning;
33 is that right?
34 A. Yes.
35
36 Q. So that is likely to be the time of the day when the place
37 is the cleanest?
38 A. Yes, this is after post production cleaning has ended
39 and, in the case of the boning hall, yes, it ought to be at
40 its cleanest at the beginning of production.
41
42 Q. So if swabs were taken a couple of hours or halfway through
43 the day's slaughtering procedure, the results are going to
44 be higher?
45 A. I have to bore you with the detail of what particular
46 item we are looking at. The walls and other items not
47 coming into contact with product, I would say not
48 necessarily. If it is a cutting block, yes, the bacterial
49 count does rise gradually over the day.
50
51 Q. And the trimtable would as well?
52 A. Yes, anything which is passing time and there is scope
53 for bacterial growth, the bacteria increase.
54
55 Q. In both of those there is a trimtable in the packing room,
56 which is grade E on both of those dates, and there is a
57 trimtable in the boning hall, which is grade E on both the
58 those dates?
59 A. Yes.
60
