Day 130 - 26 May 95 - Page 69


     
     1        hot burgers with their hand?
     2        A.  Following the procedures that we taught them, there is
     3        no reason why -- that it should be dangerous, apart from
     4        the, yes, they are close to hot equipment and may be from
     5        time to time they might have a slight accident, but the
     6        fact that they are turning the meat over really does not
     7        have any bearing on it.
     8
     9   Q.   You also think it is perfectly acceptable in terms of
    10        hygiene?
    11        A.  Well, again, as I say, we have discussed that with many
    12        an Environmental Health Officer, and all have been
    13        satisfied that it is OK, but the clamshell now, you do not
    14        need to turn them anyway, they are just taken off when they
    15        are cooked.
    16
    17   Q.   These EHOs, presumably, they brought it up because they
    18        were not happy with it?
    19        A.  Well, I think, sort of, in looking at it -----
    20
    21   MR. RAMPTON:  Is Ms. Steel going to listen to the answer or
    22        not?
    23
    24   MR. MORRIS:  Sorry, carry on.
    25        A.  In looking at it initially, you might feel that:  "Ah,
    26        well, they are touching it; maybe there is a risk", but
    27        when you look at what actually happens and the fact that
    28        the hand-washing procedures are in place as well, the risk
    29        is negligible.
    30
    31   MS. STEEL:   I just want to ask about hustle.  Since hustle was
    32        so widely interpreted and, according to you, misinterpreted
    33        to include running and things like that -- obviously,
    34        people were running, thinking that was part of hustle, but
    35        you say that was a misinterpretation of what it was
    36        supposed to be -- since it was so widely interpreted, why
    37        did you not just scrap the word "hustle" and bring in "safe
    38        working practices"?
    39        A.  Why should we when it is a term that was well-known, we
    40        knew we could replace it with something that would become
    41        equally as well-known.  What we replaced it with is
    42        actually in support of safe team work, working safely, so
    43        why change completely?
    44
    45   Q.   To make it clear to employees that safety is the most
    46        important matter?
    47        A.  Well, you know, I suppose it was one option open to
    48        us.  We did not choose that option and the option that we
    49        went with was one that was perfectly acceptable to the HSE
    50        who, as you know, were involved in assessing us at the 
    51        time. 
    52 
    53   Q.   I suggest to you the reason why you stuck with the word
    54        "hustle" was because it has connotations of working at
    55        speed and you wanted the employees to continue to work at
    56        speed?
    57        A.  That is just not what happened at all.
    58
    59   Q.   There is one other matter that I wanted to ask about.  You
    60        said in your evidence-in-chief that in terms of safety

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