Day 130 - 26 May 95 - Page 66


     
     1   Q.   I am not asking to bring up anything for the sake of it.  I
     2        am asking whether you are interested, as you have asserted,
     3        in risk management when you consider various areas of
     4        potential fundamental problems -----
     5
     6   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What Mrs. Barnes has said is, in effect, she
     7        does not see this as an area which carries with it a
     8        fundamental problem so far as safety is concerned.
     9
    10   MR. MORRIS:  That is not what you said when you went through the
    11        accident book.
    12
    13   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What she has said is when people are new they
    14        tend to have more minor accidents, but she does not
    15        obviously see that as an area of fundamental problem with
    16        regard to safety.
    17
    18        You may argue in due course she is wrong about that.  By
    19        that time I will have had a lot more evidence, and the
    20        first thing I will have to decide is whether there are a
    21        lot of accidents at McDonald's.  If there are, then I may
    22        have to look for the reasons.  If I decide at the end of
    23        the day that there is absolutely nothing untoward about
    24        McDonald's safety record, then I will not have to look at
    25        it, but we are just part way through the evidence on this.
    26
    27   MR. MORRIS:  I think we have virtually finished.  Is it possible
    28        to have a five-minute break?  Could we make it 10 minutes?
    29
    30   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.
    31
    32                       (Short Adjournment)
    33
    34   MR. MORRIS:  If the under-reporting rate for RIDDOR accidents is
    35        something you have claimed between 10 and 15 per cent now
    36        and 20 per cent before, and those are offences not to
    37        report which could lead to the Company being taken to court
    38        so, presumably, management have a pretty high awareness of
    39        their duty to report those, yes?
    40        A.  Well, put it this way, if we find out that they have
    41        not reported one, senior management will follow up with
    42        them in the strongest of terms because they are putting
    43        their own, you know, themselves at risk as well as the
    44        Company.
    45
    46   Q.   So, is it not common sense that the under-reporting rate in
    47        the injury book is going to be far higher than for RIDDOR
    48        accidents?
    49        A.  Well, it is not the manager's responsibility to write
    50        the accidents in the accident book; it is the crew members. 
    51 
    52   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think the point being made is, if you have, 
    53        say, 10 or 20 per cent of serious accidents which should be
    54        reported, according to the Regulations, are not being, you
    55        would expect a much greater percentage of under-reporting
    56        of small accidents.  If I was a crew member, there would be
    57        absolutely no legal need for me to report a relatively
    58        small burn or cut on a finger and put it in the accident
    59        book.
    60        A.   I think there is a slight misunderstanding here, that

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