Day 009 - 08 Jul 94 - Page 35


     
     1   Q.   You remember that it was in the late 70s that that
              happened?
     2        A.  I recall saying I knew that happened during the 70s.
 
     3   Q.   OK, during the 70s, and following that, when did
              McDonald's start using CFCs in their blowing agent?
     4        A.  We started using polystyrene foam in 1975 and, to my
              knowledge, a portion of that CFC-12 was used, all the way
     5        up until we phased out.
 
     6   Q.   So in 1978, or whenever the CFCs were ordered to be
              removed from aerosol sprays by Congress, McDonald's took
     7        no action at that time?
              A.  I am not aware of the factors involved in the
     8        legislation that you are referring to.
 
     9   Q.   McDonald's did not do any research, as far as you know,
              about that issue?
    10        A.  I could not say whether they did or not because I do
              not know.
    11
         Q.   Until 1985-ish before McDonald's was aware that CFCs were
    12        potentially damaging?
              A.  Our research showed that the CFC issue came to the
    13        forefront in the mid 1980's.  That is when the scientific
              community had started to publish more papers, more
    14        science, related to this issue.  That is correct.
 
    15   Q.   Then it took a further three years before you phased them
              out in America.  What was the final date you phased them
    16        out in America?
              A.  In America we were out of CFCs by the end of the
    17        calendar year 1988.
 
    18   Q.   Then it took a further how long before there were no CFCs
              used in the McDonald's Corporation in the world?
    19        A.  Towards the end of 1990.
 
    20   MR. RAMPTON:  I wonder if I might say something as there is a
              pause?  Mr. Langert mentioned -- it may be a helpful
    21        intervention -- in the course of his evidence that there
              were some charts in the EDF report relating to the
    22        significance of McDonald's packaging in a relative sense.
              I have been looking -- I cannot find the ones that he is
    23        talking about.
 
    24   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I suggest, it is probably what you are going
              to suggest, that Mr. Langert be given a bundle with it in
    25        over the adjournment.
  
    26   MR. MORRIS:  Can I ask one further question on this subject: 
              Is it not a fact HCFCs were known as CFCs; they were in 
    27        the CFC family in the 70s and 80s?
              A.  No, I am not aware of that.  HCFCs were a different
    28        blowing agent with the H at the beginning representing
              hydrogen, representing a completely different blowing
    29        agent with different environmental impacts.
 
    30   Q.   Are you aware whether HCFCs were banned from aerosol
              sprays at the same time or later, or you do not know?

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