Day 020 - 28 Jul 94 - Page 09


     
     1        slaughter line, so that could have affected it as well?
              A.  Affected whether it was instantaneous or not?
     2
         Q.   Affected the amount of current each bird was getting,
     3        hence whether it was being sufficiently stunned or rapidly
              enough.
     4
         MR. RAMPTON:  I think there is a misunderstanding between
     5        Ms. Steel and the witness.  Ms. Steel is suggesting not
              that the stun is not instantaneous in some cases but that
     6        some of the birds were conscious or semiconscious after
              the whole process of stunning is complete; Dr. Gregory
     7        ought to be able to deal with that.
 
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do you appreciate there are two parts to
              it?  Did you hear what Mr. Rampton said?
     9        A.  Yes.
 
    10   Q.   What do you say about that?
              A.  There are two parts to it, as you say.  The first
    11        question, is the stun instantaneous?  The second question
              is, are all the birds in a stunned state when they leave
    12        the water bath stunner?  That is correct.
 
    13   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Let him just say what he would like to say
              about that, then you can ask him another question if you
    14        wish?
              A.  In my statement in February on page 250, I say that
    15        between the stunner and the neck cutter none of those
              birds which have made contact with the water showed an
    16        escape behaviour or were breathing.  Implicit in that is
              the fact that none of those birds would have been
    17        conscious.  So when they left the water bath stunner, in
              my view, all those birds in contact with water were
    18        stunned.
 
    19        Now, the other part of the question is whether it is
              instantaneous.  I gave a recommendation on the basis of a
    20        risk, not on the basis of an observation.  I did not know
              whether any birds were not instantaneously stunned or what
    21        proportion were instantaneously stunned.  I have no direct
              evidence on that, but there is a risk associated with
    22        having a short electrode in terms of some birds not being
              instantaneously stunned.
    23
         Q.   What about some birds not being properly stunned in terms
    24        of stunning made -----
 
    25   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Is this the point we dealt with yesterday,
              the four second question? 
    26        A.  Could you expand on that? 
  
    27   Q.   Yes.  You said they were going to be in the water for four
              seconds; by the end of the four seconds they would all,
    28        you thought, be completely stunned?
              A.  That is correct.
    29
         Q.   If they were not instantaneously stunned it could be a
    30        question of not being stunned until a fraction of a
              second?

Prev Next Index