Day 070 - 20 Dec 94 - Page 35
1 need to look at the reamended particulars of justification
2 and fair comment actually in their hard copy, because I am
3 sure you have it in mind -- but there are specific
4 allegations which, presumably, were based on some evidence
5 which was available to you. I know you are not strictly
6 restricted to that, because you would want to add to it any
7 specific allegations which are made in your statements but,
8 ex hypothesi, if they are made in your statements, you are
9 going to call direct evidence in relation to them.
10
11 MR. MORRIS: Yes. In terms of animal welfare, as I say, the
12 witness that we do have from Jarrets slaughterhouse is not
13 an animal welfare expert, as far as I am aware. She deals
14 with hygiene matters, hygiene and disease.
15
16 So what we would like to apply for now is to have the names
17 of the slaughterhouses that supply McDonald's in this
18 country. In that way, we can look up public records or
19 contact local authorities, or whatever, in terms of seeing
20 if there have been any breaches of regulations or any other
21 relevant matters.
22
23 At the moment, because we have been prevented access for
24 our expert witnesses and we have been denied this far even
25 the names of the slaughterhouses, then it is very difficult
26 for us to get any independent evidence, apart from the
27 Plaintiffs' documents and their own witnesses, which of
28 course are selective and are going to be favourable to them
29 and their witnesses.
30
31 So I think we are entitled to the names of the
32 slaughterhouses, and then we can attempt to get direct
33 evidence, if we can, from local authorities, or whatever,
34 or maybe even seek further witnesses of employees.
35
36 MR. JUSTICE BELL: If you did not get a list, presumably, when
37 someone from McKey Foods attended, you would ask him where
38 they got their meat supplies from.
39
40 MR. MORRIS: We did ask one of witnesses, and the witness,
41 Mr. Oakley, said that he would not give us the name, or
42 Mr. Rampton objected, or something; and now we are making a
43 formal application for those names to be given to us.
44
45 MS. STEEL: The fact is that the Plaintiffs are making all
46 these assertions about how wonderful these places are, and
47 then refusing to name them. It just means that it is
48 impossible for us to verify what they are saying is true,
49 whether what they are saying is true or not. I think it is
50 quite prejudicial to how we are able to conduct our
51 defence.
52
53 MR. JUSTICE BELL: What do you say about that, Mr. Rampton?
54
55 MR. RAMPTON: I say something which perhaps I should have said a
56 long time ago: whatever the Court of Appeal may have said
57 about the nature of pleading and its effect, the Court of
58 Appeal said nothing about the burden of proof. The
59 Defendants have to make a case. It is their misfortune if,
60 because the Plaintiffs refuse to volunteer information
