Day 261 - 12 Jun 96 - Page 27


     
     1        you are prepared to make that admission, but it is the only
     2        way I can think of of avoiding need to bring this out or
     3        bring that out.  Do you see the problem I am trying to
     4        grapple with?
     5
     6   MR. RAMPTON:  I see the problem.  I do not really think, in
     7        fairness either to the inquiry agents themselves or to my
     8        clients, I can do that, because if the notes are to go in
     9        on behalf of the Defendants as being an accurate record of
    10        what took place, why then, so they should on my behalf --
    11        because although the statements are based on the notes to a
    12        large extent, they are also, quite obviously, statements
    13        based to some extent on what one calls the proof taking
    14        exercising, answer between solicitor and witness.
    15
    16   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I am not urging you to take that course.
    17        I wanted to canvass the possibility.  What I want to avoid
    18        is all the notes being affirmed, save where either you or
    19        Ms. Steel or Mr. Morris specifically ask it, because then
    20        one would have a mass of evidence, really, large parts of
    21        which probably do not go to any issue.
    22
    23   MR. RAMPTON:  That is precisely why I did not do it.  In our
    24        belief, there is already far too much in the notes that has
    25        been disclosed, because it has little or no bearing on
    26        anything to do with the case.  But there it is; they are
    27        there and, because they are there, I cannot stop
    28        cross-examination about them.
    29
    30        The only question I will ask Mr. Pocklington, which is
    31        similar to one that I asked Mr. Bishop, is whether, after
    32        the passage of time (which is in his case, actually, more
    33        than six years, from the beginning of his time in the
    34        group) whether he can reliably say that he remembers the
    35        detail of particular events without reference to his
    36        notes.  I suppose one can say, in that sense, he is
    37        affirming the notes as the source of his evidence.  If the
    38        witness cannot remember after six years but has got
    39        contemporaneous notes, that is only to be expected.
    40
    41   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  It probably will not matter very much
    42        at the end of the day, but I do not see any shortcut.
    43
    44   MR. RAMPTON:  I am afraid I do not either, my Lord.
    45
    46   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do you understand why I was asking about
    47        that?  If you want something which appears in the notes
    48        that does not appear in the evidence-in-chief, you have to
    49        bring it out.  I was looking for a way of trying to avoid
    50        that.  I do not think there is one. 
    51 
    52   MR. MORRIS:  That is what we said yesterday, effectively. 
    53
    54   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I do not think there is a way of doing it,
    55        I am afraid.  Yes.
    56
    57   MR. RAMPTON:  Mr. Pocklington, can you go into the witness box,
    58        please?
    59
    60   MR. MORRIS:  If I can say, before Mr. Pocklington is sworn, that

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