Day 263 - 14 Jun 96 - Page 13


     
     1
     2   MS. STEEL:   Well, as I saw it, Mr. Rampton might try and
     3        say: "Well, I infer that if there were X number of meetings
     4        which my agents attended and McDonald's was discussed
     5        X number of times, it could be taken that there is going to
     6        be a similar pattern over other meetings", and so on.
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No.  The way I am approaching it at the
     9        moment is that it looks likely to me that one agent or
    10        another, at least one agent or another, attended each
    11        Caledonian Road and each Endsleigh Street meeting over the
    12        period of time which the inquiry agents' evidence covers;
    13        and, therefore, I assumed, bearing in mind the stand on
    14        relevance which Mr. Rampton has taken, that the -- I say
    15        only, though in fact you attended quite a few, and
    16        Mr. Morris much less -- that the only meetings which either
    17        of you attended are the ones which are spoken to the
    18        evidence which has been disclosed, and the only times at
    19        which McDonald's was mentioned at the meetings were the
    20        times which I have got.  Certainly, that is the only
    21        evidence which is put forward.  So, you have your argument
    22        that on other occasions they were not actually dealt with.
    23
    24   MS. STEEL:   Right.  If that is conceded, then -- yes, OK.
    25        Obviously, if that is conceded, then they would not be
    26        necessary in terms of seeing how many times it was
    27        discussed, or so on, or how many times McDonald's was
    28        discussed.  But in terms of the general picture of the
    29        nature of the group and how it worked and who was involved,
    30        they are still relevant to the overall picture which, as it
    31        presently stands, has been selectively chosen, on their own
    32        admission, by the Plaintiffs.
    33
    34        You asked a question of Mr. Hall yesterday about the
    35        difference between witness statements gathered after the
    36        event and notes.  I do not know whether you are just not
    37        worried about that, bearing in mind that we are not asking
    38        for statements or -----
    39
    40   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I do not think you do.  I do not mind
    41        confessing that it seems to me there is a very considerable
    42        problem in this area -- which, in actual fact, Hobhouse J.
    43        did not have to resolve in his case, because of the way the
    44        case turned out anyway, but I might have to in this case --
    45        that if I were to hold, for instance, that you were
    46        entitled to any inquiry agents' notes or agencies' reports
    47        in the possession, custody or power of the Plaintiffs which
    48        have not yet been disclosed, but which were later at
    49        meetings or events in respect of which notes, reports or
    50        witness statements have been put forward, then I have to 
    51        ask myself, logically, why should not only the notes and 
    52        the reports but also draft witness statements, final 
    53        witness statements, witnesses who are not going to be
    54        called but which relate to those meetings, should not be
    55        disclosed as well; although, in my own experience over the
    56        years, it never actually is done.  They do not call for
    57        them, because they just assume they are still covered by
    58        privilege.
    59
    60   MS. STEEL:   Yes.

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