Day 180 - 31 Oct 95 - Page 38


     
     1
     2   MR. JUSTICE BELL: There is one other matter I think perhaps
     3        I should ask, as my eye has fallen on it.  In the paragraph
     4        which appears after the Council of Europe's decency
     5        threshold hold in Twilight Robbery, there are some
     6        references to basic benefit, and "such a family" -- that is
     7        two parents and two young children -- "would need gross
     8        earnings of £105.45 a week to give a net weekly wage equal
     9        to their supplementary benefit".  So that is about the
    10        same?
    11        A.  Yes.  Those figures are approximately the same.
    12
    13   Q.   But does not supplementary benefit vary according to rent
    14        and things of that kind ---
    15        A.  Yes.
    16
    17   Q.   -- or did it not then?
    18        A.  It did.  The relevant benefit now, my Lord, I am sure
    19        you are familiar, is Family Credit.
    20
    21   Q.   Yes.
    22        A.  Family Credit provides for employees 16 hours or more a
    23        week, two children and above, working in a low paid job.
    24        It lifts up their wage to the equivalent benefit level.
    25
    26   MR. MORRIS:  That is paid by the State?
    27        A.  It is paid by the State, yes; and the Family Credit
    28        bill nationally is about £1 billion a year; and as many
    29        commentators -----
    30
    31   MR. JUSTICE BELL: I do not want to ask you to give more detail
    32        than is necessary.  But the figure which you have given of
    33        £105.45 ---
    34        A.  Yes.
    35
    36   Q.   -- that would mean that, after any deductions which there
    37        might be from that gross wage, they would come to a figure
    38        which you are proposing there would be about what a typical
    39        family of two parents and two children would get, basic and
    40        supplementary benefit, at the time?
    41        A.  That is right.
    42
    43   Q.   Is that right?
    44        A.  Yes.
    45
    46   Q.   I mean, one family might get more, another family might get
    47        less, depending on their rent and matters of that kind.  Am
    48        I correct about that?
    49        A.  Yes, you are.  It just indicates the relationship
    50        between benefit levels and the minimum wage level at that 
    51        time. 
    52 
    53   Q.   So, if I put the £106 per week -----
    54        A.  1984, remember.
    55
    56   Q.   In 1984 -- it would be about the equivalent, after any
    57        deductions, of the State benefit which two unemployed
    58        parents with two young children might expect to receive in
    59        1984; would that be accurate?
    60        A.  I think that is a fair statement, yes.

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