Day 188 - 15 Nov 95 - Page 54


     
     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Whether it is because the basics for putting
     2        the suggestion that someone is lying is given in confidence
     3        and you do not want to reveal it, or you are unable to
     4        reveal it for some reason.
     5
     6   MS. STEEL:  But he did not at any stage -----
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You do not have to concern yourself about it,
     9        so far as the result of the case, because as far as I am
    10        concerned, obviously, I attach more weight to a challenge
    11        -- if, indeed, I attach any weight at all -- if some
    12        particular reason is given for the challenge.  But so far
    13        as the propriety of Mr. Rampton suggesting that Mr. Lamti
    14        was lying is concerned, I do not have any reason for
    15        believing that he did not have a basis for putting it.  The
    16        fact that he did not put the basis does not lead me to that
    17        conclusion.
    18
    19   MR. RAMPTON:  No, my Lord.  All it does is to weaken my
    20        challenge, if I cannot put the basis of it.
    21
    22   MS. STEEL:  Can I ask, though -- I mean, this is actually Dave's
    23        question, but I will say what occurs to me as well, that he
    24        did not say to him:  "That did not happen on such and such
    25        a date, did it?  What you have said there did not happen",
    26        whatever.  It is just: "You are a liar" ---
    27
    28   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I do not think that matters
    29
    30   MS. STEEL:  -- or, "You are a thief."
    31
    32   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  There is nothing improper in doing it the way
    33        Mr. Rampton did, as I can see.  Obviously, the challenge
    34        may carry more weight, as I have said -- if, indeed, it
    35        carries any weight at all -- if a person is challenged
    36        about the truth of the specific statement and then it is
    37        put to the witness specifically why it is wrong.
    38
    39   MR. MORRIS:  But the point is, Mr. Rampton knows full well --
    40        and I might as well speak plainly -- that if you
    41        cross-examine, then a witness can explain, expand, bring in
    42        new stuff, give details, give hearsay evidence, whatever;
    43        and it seems to be a technique which can be employed -- and
    44        Mr. Rampton, in my opinion, employed it on that day, if not
    45        other days as well -- to avoid cross-examination because he
    46        knows that our witnesses are telling the truth, and backed
    47        up with hard evidence which he brought with him in the
    48        documents about all those matters, but, to avoid having to
    49        do that, he just says: "What I will do is, I will attack
    50        his credibility", to try and lower the opinion of the court 
    51        of that witness.  But I do not think ----- 
    52 
    53   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause there and think about what you are
    54        saying.
    55
    56   MR. MORRIS:  I am sure it is standard practice at the Bar.
    57
    58   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Why should an allegation lower the reputation
    59        of a witness in my mind?
    60

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