Day 105 - 16 Mar 95 - Page 31


     
     1        in any case and, secondly, the condition of meat.
     2
     3   Q.   Are you saying that the grades selected by the Bristol Food
     4        Laboratories company, the system used by them is,
     5        effectively, worthless, the grading system?
     6        A.  No, because we have heard the term "educational".  It
     7        is educational in that it indicates, with a certain degree
     8        of fine tuning, I might say, what the general standards of
     9        cleaning are in the plant.
    10
    11   Q.   But, basically, they do not have to do anything about any
    12        of the grades that they get?
    13        A.  Well, Bristol Laboratories are not an enforcement
    14        authority.
    15
    16   Q.   Not, but the purpose of getting this advice, the company
    17        does not have to do anything with the results it gets as
    18        long as they do not get any worse?
    19
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do you know the answer to any of these
    21        questions?  Do you know what "E" means to Jarretts when it
    22        gets back there?
    23        A.  It means that -----
    24
    25   Q.   You do actually know this?
    26        A.  Yes. They know that "E" is the lowest grade that
    27        Bristol Food Laboratories are giving within this broadly
    28        acceptable range of acceptability.  I keep stressing that
    29        because I think it is so important.  If they see several
    30        Es, they will do what I have said they do and, that is,
    31        bring it to the attention of the cleaners.  They will
    32        probably say something like:  "Look, we are getting Es
    33        again, just check up that the procedures are correct".
    34
    35   MS. STEEL:  Who appear to be doing nothing?
    36        A.  I would not say that at all.  There is a month gone by
    37        between these two.  They, indeed, have not got any worse.
    38        If they never get any worse than that, I, for one, would be
    39        perfectly satisfied.
    40
    41   Q.   But they are not getting any better, are they?
    42        A.  If they are satisfactory and in terms of -- we are
    43        talking about the very serious matter of dangers to health
    44        here -- if they are satisfactory, the question of improving
    45        them beyond that is entirely a matter for what the company
    46        might wish to do, in my view.
    47
    48   Q.   The last of these reports has eight grade Es, on page 85,
    49        that is, 25th November 1994.  So, in fact, if anything, the
    50        situation is getting worse.  Are you suggesting that their 
    51        cleaning system is unsatisfactory? 
    52        A.  No, I am not suggesting that at all.  I have made no 
    53        comment on the cleaning system up to this stage, nor has
    54        anybody else, but to see eight Es, there is no history of
    55        what happened after that, but I would be confident that the
    56        management would act to the extent that they show these
    57        results.  That is what happens in practice:  "Here, you are
    58        getting Es; keep an eye on the cleaning".  On the evidence
    59        here, the microbiological counts have not gone outside what
    60        is a safe band of results.

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