Day 092 - 27 Feb 95 - Page 64


     
     1
     2   Q.   Would you say it is cruel?
     3        A.  No, it is not.
     4
     5   Q.   Why is it not cruel?
     6        A.  Well, it is not because you are looking at it from a
     7        human perspective, and you are making an assumption that a
     8        chicken thinks like a human being and that is a totally
     9        incorrect assumption.  I elaborated on the differences in
    10        the past.  There are some distinct differences.  If you are
    11        thinking from a human side you think differently.  A
    12        chicken when it grows and it is used to that environment he
    13        does not know; he is not aware of his environment; he is
    14        not aware of whether he has choices; he is not aware he can
    15        go out and run.  His environment is that house.  He feels
    16        comfortable.
    17
    18   Q.   You say that he is not aware?
    19        A.  Yes, that is not only what I say.  There is plenty of
    20        evidence to support that.
    21
    22   Q.   But is it not the case that you are saying that you can
    23        judge what choices a chicken wishes to make or seems to be
    24        making or not making.  You are saying hat you can judge
    25        that, but somebody else who is critical cannot judge that?
    26        A.  What I am saying is that chickens do not know -----
    27
    28   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Have you actually said that?
    29        A.  No.  What I have said ----
    30
    31   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I have not heard him say anything which
    32        suggests to me that he is not suggesting you are entitled
    33        to your point of view, this witness.
    34
    35   MR. MORRIS:  So would you say then that whether that is cruel or
    36        not would be entirely down to someone's point of view?
    37        A.  I would say, no, it is not inhumane.  It is not cruel.
    38
    39   Q.   But somebody else might think it was cruel?
    40        A.  Yes, absolutely.  You probably think it is cruel, that
    41        is your opinion.  You have that choice to think what you
    42        think.  What I am giving you is evidence and an expert
    43        opinion.  That is what I came here for.
    44
    45   Q.   You said that you cannot give evidence about the state of
    46        the chicken's mind but people should not anthropomorphize?
    47        A.  Let me clarify one thing.  There are distinct
    48        differences between the mind of a chicken and the mind of a
    49        human being.  We are the only species that have wisdom.  If
    50        you look at our name we homosapiens.  "Sapiens" means 
    51        wisdom.  We are the only species on this earth that have 
    52        that kind of classification.  If some people want to be 
    53        compared with chickens, they think that chickens are like
    54        them, that is fine with me, but I am not going to compare
    55        myself with a chicken.  There are some distinct
    56        differences.  I know I have choices.  I know I can make
    57        decisions.  I know I can go somewhere else and think how to
    58        get there.  Chickens do not have that.  Chickens are not
    59        aware of their environment.  When they are born they think
    60        of their parents.  The first thing that moves they think

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