Day 193 - 28 Nov 95 - Page 15
1 as though they will be victimised; so they are afraid of
2 losing their jobs; and I promised those people that I would
3 never release their names.
4
5 MR. JUSTICE BELL: But what do you say they told you?
6 A. Exactly what it says during this paragraph, that
7 somehow Cam knew who had signed the cards -- which is
8 totally illegal in the province of Ontario -- and that if
9 they did not come in and sign against the union, then they
10 were indirectly -----
11
12 Q. It is not totally illegal, is it? You said this
13 yesterday. He cannot go round asking, but if someone
14 chooses to tell him, there is nothing illegal about that?
15 A. Choosing to tell him; but he is never allowed to see
16 the cards at the Labour Board; only the Labour Board
17 officials -----
18
19 Q. Yes, I understand that. But on an occasion yesterday you
20 said it was illegal, when all that Mr. Rampton was putting
21 were names of people he got to know of. One knows tht
22 there are various ways you can get to hear of things. Are
23 you -----
24
25 MS. STEEL: I do not think that is exactly what she said. I am
26 not trying to be awkward, but I think it was a bit more
27 complex than that. I think it was that they were not
28 allowed to demand the names.
29
30 MR. JUSTICE BELL: What the witness has said is: "Somehow Cam
31 knew who had signed, which is totally illegal"; and that is
32 what I am following up.
33
34 THE WITNESS: No. I believe Cam cannot ask who has signed the
35 union; he cannot ask an employee whether they have signed.
36
37 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, I understand that. But that is what
38 you meant when you said: "Somehow he knew, which is totally
39 illegal", is it?
40 A. I do not know what you are getting at here.
41
42 MR. RAMPTON: I want to ask you -----
43
44 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Let me just ask -- I am sorry, Mr. Rampton --
45 in case it is important. Caseview may not be totally
46 accurate, but, you see, what it says in this paragraph
47 is: "Somehow Cam knew who had signed the cards which is
48 totally illegal"; and I am asking you why you say it is
49 totally illegal. I understand that if he had asked or
50 someone had asked on asked on his behalf, I understand the
51 illegality of that. But if people had volunteered, if one
52 crew member had gone and told Cam or a member of his
53 management: "I have signed, and X, Y and Z have signed as
54 well" ---
55 A. That is right.
56
57 Q. -- that is not illegal?
58 A. No, that is not.
59
60 MR. RAMPTON: Can you turn back to the first page of your
