Day 290 - 30 Oct 96 - Page 41


     
     1        there was also a temptation to use one of the prongs as a
     2        goad.  He did say what that temptation was resisted whilst
     3        he was there.
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Your reference to the Codes of Practice was
     6        at the bottom of page 66.
     7
     8   MS. STEEL:   Did I not read that out?
     9
    10   MR JUSTICE BELL:  You did.  You read it out.  But do not go
    11        through it now, because I am looking at it at the moment.
    12
    13   MS. STEEL:   Right.
    14
    15   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   What are you going to go on to next?
    16
    17   MS. STEEL:   I am just trying to find -- I do not know,
    18        actually.
    19
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  We will break off until 10.30 in the
    21        morning.
    22
    23        One thing I need your help on at some stage is -- and it is
    24        on the list of topics under animal welfare, which
    25        Mr. Morris handed to me the Monday before last, and under
    26        "General" it has got numbers and then "how to judge
    27        suffering".  Now, if pain is clearly caused, I do not see
    28        any problem.  If you are saying to me, generally speaking,
    29        whatever you have to say about his evidence in detail,
    30        Mr. Gregory is an expert in these matters and his evidence
    31        should be generally well regarded and he says this should
    32        not happen, and you go on to say, if he says that, the
    33        inference is that it should not happen because it causes
    34        the pig or the chicken or the steer a degree of suffering,
    35        now, I understand that as well.  But there may be areas in
    36        the case where it is more difficult to judge whether there
    37        is any degree and, if so, what degree of distress,
    38        suffering (call it what you will) on the part of the
    39        animal.  It may not be right just to transpose human
    40        experience to the animal.  I am putting this in purely
    41        neutral terms, because I am certainly not expressing a view
    42        one way or another.  If you think you have a key to whether
    43        there will be a significant amount of suffering in the case
    44        of a chicken or a pig, or a cow or steer, then I would
    45        welcome your help on it.  Many years ago, there was a
    46        feeling in the farming community that if a chicken was fed
    47        enough, drank enough and was kept at an equable
    48        temperature, it was a happy hen.  I think those days are
    49        probably past.  But I have got to turn my mind to what
    50        elements, what the factors are that I can safely rely on 
    51        before I draw a conclusion that the animal has suffered to 
    52        any significant degree. 
    53
    54        10.30 in the morning.
    55
    56                         (The Court Adjourned)
    57
    58
    59
    60

Prev Next Index