Day 238 - 22 Apr 96 - Page 15


     
     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause.  Are you going to identify where
     2        these places are as we go along?  That might be more
     3        convenient.  We have got to do it sometime, I think,
     4        probably, and if they are on the maps which you put in this
     5        morning, then we can do it there.
     6
     7   MR. MORRIS:  Yes, OK.
     8        A.   Piracua is number 247 on this map.
     9
    10   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  24?
    11        A.   Where there is a little circle and it says "247".
    12
    13   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, and then it is written in in longhand.
    14        Is that right?
    15        A.   Yes, that is right, yes.
    16
    17   MR. MORRIS: "In November 1986 the Guarani of Jarara indigenous
    18        area were illegally thrown off their land".  Where is that?
    19        A.   That is number 497.  That is almost the bottom
    20        right-hand side of the map.
    21
    22   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  Just let me make a mark.
    23
    24   MR. MORRIS:  "Despite a number of court cases they have not yet
    25        regained their land which is occupied by a farmer who
    26        obtained a court order to prohibit the Indians from
    27        entering their land.  The farmer has been offered
    28        compensation to leave the Guaranis' land.  He has refused
    29        and has submitted a claim to the land under the provision
    30        of the new decree, 1775.  Meanwhile a number of Guarani
    31        have returned to occupy their land and are threatening to
    32        commit suicide if they are expelled again."
    33        A.   So this is an ongoing -- well, all of them really are
    34        ongoing conflicts.
    35
    36   Q.   You have talked about Guarani people coming here to lobby
    37        the European Parliament and you have helped to organize
    38        that, but have you lobbied the authorities in Brazil at any
    39        stage about Guarani?
    40        A.   Yes, we have.  I mean, Survival has lobbied one of the
    41        local federal judges in Mato Grosso do Sul as well as
    42        FUNAI, which is the Government National Indian Foundation
    43        which is the federal body responsible for indigenous
    44        peoples.  We are also working on putting in a submission to
    45        the United Nations -- it has a sub-commission on human
    46        rights which sits every August.  Survival has consultative
    47        status at the UN and we frequently use this system to bring
    48        pressure to bear on governments which are not respecting
    49        the indigenous peoples' rights.
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Can I make one point?  I am interested in 
    52        the facts for the purpose of this case.  I cannot be 
    53        interested in the lobbying which is going on.  That is not
    54        a comment on whether the lobbying is justified or not.  It
    55        just cannot affect my judgment in this case; do you
    56        understand?
    57
    58   MS. STEEL:  I think the purpose of it is just to confirm it is
    59        still an ongoing conflict.  That is all.
    60

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