Day 070 - 20 Dec 94 - Page 38


     
     1
     2   MS. STEEL:  The fourth one?
     3
     4   MR. RAMPTON:  What fourth one?
     5
     6   MS. STEEL:  He visited two cattle slaughterhouses.
     7
     8   MR. RAMPTON:  Not that is the subject of a report from
     9        McDonald's.
    10
    11   MS. STEEL:  Yes, yes.
    12
    13   MR. RAMPTON:  Well, i am sorry, I am not going to reveal it.
    14
    15   MS. STEEL:  The point is that I believe we are entitled to test
    16        the witnesses' evidence in the main action.
    17
    18   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  At the moment, I am with you on that.  In so
    19        far you can show me that someone in a disclosed statement
    20        says -- because at the moment I can only take the disclosed
    21        statement as an indication that the evidence is going to be
    22        given -- that, "I visited two other slaughterhouses and the
    23        practices there were this, that and the other", then I am
    24        for you.  But at the moment I am against you on the
    25        generality that you are entitled to know the names of all
    26        the slaughterhouses, so that you can then make enquiries.
    27        I will give reasons for that.  But I am for you in so far
    28        as, directly or indirectly, you can show that evidence has
    29        been given or that it is anticipated that it will be given
    30        that there is -- it was the example I tried to give a few
    31        minutes ago in argument, where I said that if a witness for
    32        the Plaintiffs says:  "There is an abattoir in
    33        Gloucestershire", just by way of demonstration of the
    34        point, "and what happens there is as follows" -- then, in
    35        my view, you are entitled to identification of that.
    36
    37        I propose to give a short judgment -- unless you have got
    38        anything further to say in relation to that -- to the
    39        effect I have indicated; and it is up to you to hunt out
    40        where, either in the evidence which has already been given
    41        or the evidence which it is anticipated will be given by
    42        reference to a disclosed statement, something to that
    43        effect is said.
    44
    45   MS. STEEL:   Or evidence given in court.
    46
    47   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  But what I would be unsympathetic about
    48        is for you to hunt out of your own initiative in
    49        cross-examination: "Have you been to any other
    50        slaughterhouse?  What did you see there", and then ask for 
    51        the identity, because I would think that was just a ruse. 
    52        I am not suggesting you would do that, but were you to do 
    53        that, I would treat that as a ruse to try to get the
    54        identity, when, in fact, Mr. Rampton had not led any
    55        evidence about it or given any indication that he was going
    56        to lead any evidence about it.  Do you understand?
    57
    58   MS. STEEL:   I understand what you are saying.  In terms of the
    59        Counterclaim, Mr. Rampton did just say that his Defence to
    60        Counterclaim is, in effect, this:  "What you have said in

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