Day 290 - 30 Oct 96 - Page 38


     
     1   MS. STEEL:   So, I mean, obviously they are not going willingly
     2        into the slaughter plant.  Unsurprisingly enough.
     3
     4   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Are you suggesting they know when they come
     5        off the lorry what is about to happen to them?
     6
     7   MS. STEEL:   They are probably not going willingly anyway, it is
     8        pretty unnatural to be transported around in the lorry.
     9
    10   MR JUSTICE BELL:  "I have had troubles getting animals on a
    11        lorry but never off."
    12
    13   MS. STEEL:   It may be they do know they are at the slaughter
    14        house.  Dr. Long and Mr. Lyman referred to the stench of
    15        the slaughter house and perhaps they can sense it.
    16
    17   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Yes.  Anyway, I have got the whole of pages
    18        62 and 63.
    19
    20   MS. STEEL:   Right.  Yes.  I mean, on page 63 the numbers being
    21        slaughtered were confirmed by Dr. Gregory.  200 to 240 per
    22        hour.  While I am here, on page 65, this is the part we
    23        have referred to on a number of occasions.  Line 2, "In
    24        your experience is it something which happens fairly often
    25        that where an inspection is being made the rate of
    26        slaughter goes down?"  He said, "That sometimes does occur,
    27        yes, that does occur."  Then I asked, "People are more
    28        careful about what they are doing", and he said, "You are
    29        absolutely right, when they are being scrutinised."
    30        Obviously, that is something that we think should be taken
    31        into consideration when evaluating the evidence of the
    32        report on the slaughter by Dr. Gregory.
    33
    34   MR JUSTICE BELL:  Well, I then said, "There is no particular
    35        science in that, you are just speaking of what is human
    36        nature", and that is it, is it not?
    37
    38   MS. STEEL:   Yes.  The point is that -----
    39
    40   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Then he elaborates on the inspector going
    41        round an abattoir.
    42
    43   MS. STEEL:   Yes.
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Thank you.
    46
    47   MS. STEEL:   The point is that what Dr. Gregory witnesses is
    48        going to be the best it ever gets, really.  I mean, apart
    49        from when there are other inspectors there, it is not going
    50        to be the, kind of, worse side of things.  Or, it is not 
    51        going to be the worse practices in term of the individual 
    52        establishment. 
    53
    54   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Yes.  (Pause)
    55
    56   MS. STEEL:   On day 20, page 65 -- Dr. Gregory had given
    57        evidence-in-chief that the pig was stuck on average about
    58        18 seconds after the start of stunning, using a
    59        conventional chest stick.  I am not quite sure what to do,
    60        actually, because I was just going to refer to

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