Day 011 - 12 Jul 94 - Page 74
1 then we know where we are -- how soon after awareness in
the scientific community or concern do you think there was
2 any significant public concern, or can you not as a
scientist answer that question?
3 A. I think I probably can answer that question, which is
that the first, if you like, readable book on the subject
4 was published by John Griven, and so far as my memory
serves me correctly, this was published in paperback in
5 1988/1989. As Given is quite well read and readable author
that would mean it went into the public domain quite
6 rapidly.
7 MR. MORRIS: It is my contention or opinion that environmental
groups picked up on CFC and HCFCs as part of that picture
8 well before it became a scientific fact or major issue.
9 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Just pause there. You are going to have to
put something more precise than that. If you are saying
10 it was before the publication of the Antarctica survey you
have to say when you think it is and how.
11
MR. MORRIS: Well, I am just trying to say that, for example,
12 Mr. Lipsett who spoke yesterday said that he did not
believe the industry or the scientific community or the
13 government when they said that HCFCs could be even a
temporary solution to the destruction of the ozone
14 problem, and although there were no maybe hard facts at
the time, I would contend he read between the lines or his
15 organisation read between the lines of the information
that was coming out of the scientific community and
16 perceived that it was going to be a serious problem and
not solvable through use of HCFCs. Do you see what I am
17 saying?
A. Yes.
18
Q. Is there that kind of relationship between the public and
19 the scientific community, even if the scientific community
is not 100 per cent, you know, we have these hard facts?
20 You cannot say anything unless you have the hard facts in
front of you. But there can still be perceptions from the
21 public about what the real situation is?
A. The only way you can answer this satisfactorily is to
22 take several case instances where there have been
perceptions that such you and such was the case, to follow
23 them through to discover whether or not in a case of a
typical example that perception had been correct or not.
24
Q. Like thalidomide?
25 A. There are examples like thalidomide. There are other
examples of things which were perceived to be problems
26 and, in fact, have subsequently proved not to be. So one
can always with hindsight look back and say that such and
27 such was perceived to be a problem at the time. If you
chose thalidomide which you did, it was the about the
28 first example as far as I remember of a particular
mutagenic thing which had come to light. It subsequently
29 turns out it is a member of the whole class of these, but
whether one could have foreseen in advance of this thing
30 has obviously been the subject of a great deal of debate.
As I am not an expert on genetics I do not wish to comment
