Day 088 - 13 Feb 95 - Page 73


     
     1        husbandry.
     2
     3   Q.   Is it right that the ring prevents the pigs from routing
     4        because when they try to dig the ring causes pain by
     5        snagging into the cartilage in the nose?
     6        A.  I would have said that is highly, highly unlikely
     7        because I have got daughters with earrings and pierced
     8        ears.  I see them continually pulling and they do not
     9        complain that it hurts.  I think one could almost take an
    10        analogy from that because the pig's snout is a very, very
    11         -- what can I say -- bristly type of object, where I would
    12        not think it could be such a problem.
    13
    14   Q.   I would take issue with that.  It does cause pain, does it
    15        not?
    16        A.  I am not a pig, so I cannot comment.
    17
    18   Q.   How would it be effective if it did not cause pain?
    19        A.  Because actually I can have a reasonable idea when a
    20        pig does have pain, because there are certain things that
    21        you can do to a pig and it will react in a way where it
    22        will show that it objects to it, squeaking, squealing etc.
    23        I have never ever heard a pig, when it has got a ring in
    24        its nose, running around the field, squeal or look as
    25        though it is in pain.  Also another thing about pain, pain
    26        will actually bring the condition of the pig down, so the
    27        pig would go thin; and I can assure you that I never see
    28        that happen.
    29
    30   Q.   But a pig would learn pretty rapidly, would it not, that
    31        when it tries to dig with its snout and it has a ring in it
    32        it is going to cause it pain?
    33        A.  I cannot agree with that at all.
    34
    35   Q.   Pigs are intelligent creatures, are they not?
    36        A.  Yes, I would agree on that.
    37
    38   Q.   What is the point in putting the ring in it if it is not to
    39        stop it from routing around by causing it pain?
    40        A.  Because, believe it or not, managers do have concern
    41        for the young.
    42
    43   Q.   Right, but how ----
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What is being put to you is, the only purpose
    46        in putting the ring in is to stop the sow routing, or
    47        routing beyond a certain extent, and it is being put to
    48        you:  What is the point of that?  It would not be
    49        effective; the ring would not be effective to that end
    50        unless routing with a ring in its nose caused the sow some 
    51        discomfort.  It may well be that, being an intelligent 
    52        animal once it has had an element of pain on one or two or 
    53        three occasions, it stops, but leave that aside.  Must it
    54        not be that it causes some pain which makes putting a ring
    55        there effective?  What do you say about that?
    56        A.  We have obviously discussed this at great length within
    57        our company and we have come to the conclusion that there
    58        is not a pain problem once the ring is in.  You can say
    59        there might be an initial pain.  One cannot deny that
    60        totally at all, and I would not wish to.  But, at the same

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