Day 020 - 28 Jul 94 - Page 70


     
     1   Q.   Which again could cause distress and pain?
              A.  Yes.
     2
         Q.   Where you say there is excessive carcass kicking, what
     3        does that mean?  What is it a result of?
              A.  I do not know.
     4
         Q.   Sorry, it is on the next page?
     5        A.  Yes, I am with you.  I am thinking.  I do not know
              what the excessive carcass kicking is due to.  We have
     6        some ideas on how to stop it, but I do not know what it is
              due to.
     7
         Q.   What would be a way of stopping it?
     8        A.  One way would be to electrically immobilise the
              carcass in the bleeding area.
     9
         Q.   You say at one stage 2 out of 13 pigs had fallen from the
    10        bleeding rail; is that something that is a normal
              occurrence in a slaughterhouse?
    11        A.  No, bearing in mind the pronounced carcass kicking at
              this plant and the short duration I was on the line,
    12        I would say this was unusual.
 
    13   Q.   As a result of this carcass kicking in the bleeding area,
              blood entered the stunning pen, which some people would
    14        consider might cause distress to the other animals?
              A.  That is correct.  Can I add what I think?
    15
         Q.   I mean, I know you say you do not share that opinion?
    16        A.  No, I do not, because in that situation it is quite
              common for the observing pig, the conscious pig, to go
    17        along and eat the blood.  Presumably, that is not a
              feature of distress.
    18
         Q.   Do you know that?
    19        A.  No, I do not know it, but if it eats the blood,
              I think it is unlikely.
    20
         Q.   Sometimes when animals are wounded the mother animal might
    21        lick its young one's wounds, so it could be something
              connected to that?
    22        A.  I do not know.
 
    23   Q.   You do not know?
              A.  I do not know.  We have done research on this area to
    24        establish whether an observing pig is upset by stunning
              and slaughter of another animal.  In the case of sheep it
    25        is not; in the case of pigs our existing evidence (which
              is limited) suggests they are not unduly disturbed in 
    26        terms of stress responses. 
  
    27   MR. MORRIS:  When you say unduly, what do you mean unduly
              disturbed?  They are disturbed a bit but not -----
    28        A.  They are not disturbed in terms of any autonomic
              nervous system responses, that is heart rate rise, or any
    29        blood parameters associated with that nervous system. So,
              any physiological responses.
    30
         MS. STEEL:   You said about when the two pigs fell from the

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