Day 130 - 26 May 95 - Page 68
1 the book?
2 A. I understand where you are coming from. That is why it
3 is important that we monitor -----
4
5 Q. But they are all dangerous occurrences?
6 A. That is why it is important that we monitor behaviour
7 as well, and that is why that central section in the safety
8 audit is all about, what and how people are working, and
9 are they following the key procedures that ensure they are
10 working safely.
11
12 MS. STEEL: The practice of turning burgers with the hands?
13 A. They are not turned any more; you do not have to turn
14 them on a clamshell grill.
15
16 Q. Right. That practice, when it was widespread, do you think
17 that is acceptable in terms of both hygiene and safety,
18 employee safety, that is?
19 A. Well, put it this way, it was raised several times by
20 Environmental Health Officers exactly along the lines that
21 you are raising it now. In taking them into the kitchen to
22 show them exactly how it was done, none of them pursued it
23 any further than a query.
24
25 Q. But, certainly in terms of workers' safety, if they are
26 putting their hands right next to the grill, to put their
27 hand on the burger to flip it over, they are obviously
28 going to be more at risk of burning their hand?
29 A. It is how I started when I was a Trainee Manager. When
30 I learnt to work the grill, I learnt it that way. You
31 really did not burn your fingers at all in any way by using
32 your, you know, your fingers involved in turning the meat
33 or to remove the meat.
34
35 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I think there was my eye fell on -- there may
36 be more -- in the Colchester book where someone said he
37 burnt his fingers on carbon?
38 A. Yes, it splashed.
39
40 Q. No, I do not think he said "splashed", he said on carbon,
41 on turning a patty, so it appeared to me that that might
42 have been that he burnt his fingers on the top of the
43 patty. But whether there is more than that one ---
44 A. Well, I doubt that.
45
46 Q. -- over several years, I do not know.
47 A. You would not normally have carbon on the top of the
48 patty; sometimes it builds up on the grill and ---
49
50 Q. I see.
51 A. -- and can spit back.
52
53 MS. STEEL: So his hand must have slipped on to the grill?
54 A. No, it could just spit -- have spat back. The grills
55 are cleaned off and between every run to take off the fat
56 off the grill, but it could just be that it spat back off
57 the grill, a piece of carbon.
58
59 Q. So, as far as you are concerned, it is perfectly acceptable
60 in terms of safety of employees for them to be turning over
