Day 114 - 04 Apr 95 - Page 71


     
     1        A.  I have looked at them.  I have been present when a vet,
     2        for instance, has flicked the eyelid and I have been
     3        present to that extent.  But you have to remember that we
     4        have another welfare problem that if we spend too much time
     5        messing around doing experiments we are actually increasing
     6        the anguish of the animals, or we may be, and so we are
     7        constrained by those restrictions.
     8
     9   Q.   It is not, Dr. Long, is it, an experiment for an
    10        experienced slaughterman to cast an experienced eye over
    11        the stunned animal to see whether or not it is showing
    12        signs of an ineffective stun?  That is not an experiment,
    13        is it?
    14        A.  It is a test, and you were asking me if I had done it
    15        myself.
    16
    17   Q.   Yes, have you done it?
    18        A.  Well, I am saying that the nearest I have got is,
    19        because I am not a regular slaughterman, I have not got a
    20        licence, that I have been there when these things have been
    21        done; but they have been in special circumstances and
    22        I have no reassurance that they are done regularly.
    23
    24   Q.   Over the length of your interest in animal welfare,
    25        Dr. Long, how many animals -- cattle we will stick to for
    26        the moment -- how many animals do you think you have seen
    27        stunned?
    28        A.  I suppose it runs into hundreds.  It would be over a
    29        hundred.
    30
    31   Q.   A slaughterman, or slaughtermen, in a busy slaughterhouse
    32        will see maybe 500 in a week, will they not?
    33        A.  They certainly could.  They would not be trained as
    34        physiologists.
    35
    36   Q.   You do realise, do you, that these people are trained?
    37        A.  Yes, their training varies.  We are talking all the
    38        time about what is happening perhaps now, and I have to try
    39        to tell you, I think you are interested in the period going
    40        back ----
    41
    42   Q.   No, not exclusively.  Do not make that assumption.
    43        A.  No, but what I am saying is that this very week we are
    44        going through a changeover because a new system is being
    45        instituted and which certainly training is one of the
    46        reforms.  The fact it needs to be increased in this new
    47        service indicates to me, and to many people, that it was
    48        not adequate before.
    49
    50   Q.   I do not want to band new words with you, Dr. Long.  Room 
    51        for improvement does not indicate a prior state of 
    52        calamity, does it? 
    53        A.  I would think the room for improvement merely means
    54        that, that it was not adequate before.
    55
    56   Q.   It was not as good as it might have been?
    57        A.  It was inadequate, is the word I would use.
    58
    59   Q.   You would say it was inadequate now, would you not?
    60        A.  It certainly is not as bad as it was before, but

Prev Next Index