Day 108 - 27 Mar 95 - Page 39


     
     1        A.  I think he says he did not remember any.  I am very
     2        surprised.  I know that Ruth Harrison was on the working
     3        group but I do not know whether she actually retired before
     4        Dr. Pattison joined, but if she was there at the same time
     5        there was certainly extremely strong opposition and I am
     6        surprised if there was no opposition because it is
     7        absolutely central to the welfare problems, stocking
     8        density, and it is a welfare council.
     9
    10   Q.   I think we saw Ruth Harrison's name in the council report.
    11        When you say you do not know whether she was on the
    12        committee at the same time as Dr. Pattison, do you know
    13        what happened to her?
    14        A.  She retired because of her age.  You have to retire at
    15        a certain age, but I know she was strongly opposed to the
    16        broiler system.  Whether she coincided with Dr. Pattison, I
    17        am not sure and it does not make it clear, I do not think.
    18
    19   Q.   In your input when you were at the pre-meetings before the
    20        report was published, did you oppose the stocking density
    21        of 34?
    22        A.  Yes, I am sure this was discussed.  We were very
    23        disappointed in the report I saw.  That is all I can say.
    24
    25   Q.   Does FAWN formulate an exact stocking density which it
    26        would be satisfied with or?
    27        A.  It is not as simple as that because it is the breed of
    28        chicken, the genetic development of this particular strain
    29        of chicken, which is also central to the problems but,
    30        certainly, if you halved it, say, it would be massively
    31        better for the birds.  They would have more exercise and
    32        there would not be the problem of -- perhaps it would be
    33        less of a problem, birds not reaching the food and water
    34        because of over crowding, and also the inspection would be
    35        much easier to carry out.
    36
    37   Q.   You hinted there at the problems you see with the stocking
    38        density.  Do you  want to run through them a bit more what
    39        the problems are even with the stocking density as the
    40        recommendation, 34 kilograms a metre square?
    41        A.  In the last, say, two weeks, two and a half weeks,
    42        there is very little opportunity to exercise normally but
    43        then the birds are of such a freakish nature very often
    44        that they do not -- their problems with walking are quite
    45        pronounced and they are not really like chickens.  They are
    46        engineered, not genetically, but they are an engineered
    47        species.  They have been selected ruthlessly so that they
    48        have become like dogs, are completely untenable in a way.
    49        They have respiratory disease and things.  They have been
    50        selected simply for fast growth.  I am repeating myself, 
    51        I know.  Breeding stock has to be kept half starved and I 
    52        am using the phrase  of an RSPCA -- the late Alastair 
    53        Mews(?) I remember at a conference where I was present as
    54        well, he used the expression "half starved".  It is no
    55        exaggeration to say that, so you have an untenable species
    56        now, if you like, so you have that problem anyway.
    57
    58        Moye Park is the main supplier of free range broiler
    59        chickens.  They are a company that operates in Northern
    60        Ireland and they are better because they have more room and

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