Day 018 - 26 Jul 94 - Page 56


     
     1
         Q.   "The defendants contend", it goes on, "that the conditions
     2        in which chicken are reared and the killing methods are
              cruel.  In particular, broilers are factory farmed" -- I
     3        do not ask you about that because it begs a number of
              questions -- "which often means that they are deprived of
     4        proper space and light."
 
     5        Leaving aside any questions you may have about the use of
              the word "proper", Dr. Gregory, were the chickens which
     6        you saw at Sun Valley deprived of adequate space and
              light?
     7        A.  One has to sets one's own criteria or one relies upon
              the criteria of codes of practice.
     8
         Q.   Use your criteria first.
     9        A.  The criteria I was going by when I examined these
              units was to think of the Ministry of Agriculture
    10        Fisheries and Food criteria, in particular, their codes of
              practice, and that is really the basis of what was in my
    11        report.  To go into the debate about what is my criteria
              might be a bit involved.
    12
         Q.   I see.  You might have qualifications about the standards
    13        set?
              A.  It depends upon what target you are pitching it at.
    14        You know, how much you want to compromise the industry and
              go for animal welfare and vice versa.
    15
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  May I just ask, is that why when giving
    16        especially some of your earlier answers in your evidence
              you measured it against standards throughout the industry
    17        as a whole?
              A.  I did.
    18
         Q.   You did not use your own qualitative terms of good, bad,
    19        high or low; you compared it with the industry as a whole?
              A.  Yes.  The reason why I did that was partly because it
    20        has to be an element of moral judgment rather than
              scientific.  I consider that I am here largely to provide
    21        scientific judgment, and the scientific information, for
              example, on space allowance for broilers, what is adequate
    22        and what is inadequate, is not available.  There has not
              been adequate scientific research performed to establish
    23        from the bird's point of view what is desirable.
 
    24   MR. RAMPTON:  It is very likely, Dr. Gregory, and I will not
              seek to prevent it, his Lordship may or may not do so, I
    25        know not, that the defendants will take up with you in
              their cross-examination your moral or ethical position, if 
    26        you like.  I am not going to do that because that is not 
              what I see as your function. 
    27
              What I do want to ask you is this:  It may be that in the
    28        eyes of animal welfare people, idealists, at least, the
              keeping and killing of animals for human consumption
    29        cannot be justified in any circumstances.  Are you
              conscious of that point of view?
    30        A.  I am.
 

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