Day 238 - 22 Apr 96 - Page 20
1 agriculture let alone hunting. In fact, there is very
2 little hunting left.
3
4 MR. MORRIS: Have their numbers reduced over the last decades,
5 the last 50 years?
6 A. I would say at the turn of the century, probably back
7 to the 60's or 70's even, the population would have gone
8 down. I do not have a figure for that. But what is
9 happening now is that the population is actually
10 increasing, and that is one of the problems that they have
11 been herded into such unviable small parcels of land that
12 not only can it not support the population as it used to be
13 so in the 70's or the 80's but that population is growing.
14 So there is not enough land for them.
15
16 Q. That was your second statement of 16th April, 1996. Do you
17 stand by that as your evidence?
18 A. Yes, I do.
19
20 Q. There is only one other question. We have a map provided
21 to us by McDonald's of their supply sources in Mato Grosso
22 do Sul. If you can just get a copy.
23
24 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It is a large one on the top.
25
26 MR. MORRIS: There are quite a few up there.
27
28 MR. JUSTICE BELL: The very top above the pale blue bundles.
29
30 MR. MORRIS: It is one of those ones. I do not know what it has
31 got on the other side. It is not that hard paper.
32
33 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It is on rather more flimsy paper than that.
34
35 MR. MORRIS: Do you have Mato Grosso do Sul in mind here?
36 A. Yes.
37
38 Q. The yellow flashes, it has been said by McDonald's
39 witnesses, represent the collection points for their raw
40 beef cattle to be delivered to the slaughter house in Campo
41 Grande for McDonald's use. Do you have any comments to
42 make about the location of the yellow flashes with
43 reference to indigenous peoples?
44 A. Well, if you transpose this map on to this map here,
45 what strikes me is that a lot of the yellow areas are very
46 near, if not in some cases, could be where there are
47 indigenous communities because there are quite a lot of
48 yellow flashes here, and if you look at the map which I
49 have provided, some of them are very near. I mean, this is
50 not a very detailed map but it suggests to me that they are
51 certainly in the location of some of the indigenous
52 communities which I have mentioned.
53
54 Q. Some of the indigenous communities where they now presently
55 have?
56 A. Yes, where they are now presently.
57
58 Q. On reservations?
59 A. Yes. Which, as I said, does not correspond to their
60 ancestral land.
