Day 190 - 23 Nov 95 - Page 36


     
     1   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes.  It looks from that as though all of this has
     2        come to Harriet Lamb from Steve Percy.
     3
     4   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That may be so.  But all I am saying is, if
     5        you were right on the principles, before one excluded that,
     6        Mr. Morris, if he wished, should have the opportunity to
     7        ask Ms. Lamb, when she was in the witness box, questions
     8        directed to finding out whether she had any direct
     9        knowledge or that what she said to the solicitors was based
    10        on what SP had told her.
    11
    12   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, I accept that; of course I do.  Bottom of
    13        page 8, last paragraph, I think it is, paragraph 4, third
    14        and fourth sentences; no objection at all.  She, I take it,
    15        had a hand at least in writing the article.
    16
    17   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  So there is no objection to that?
    18
    19   MR. RAMPTON:  No. Whether it is relevant or not, I do not know.
    20        I have no objection to its being said.  It appears
    21        Mr. Grimes was -- what shall I say -- properly cautious
    22        about the words in the article.  It is his job.
    23
    24        Page 9.  Again, there are potential problems with this in
    25        the first and second paragraphs, for the reason that
    26        your Lordship has just identified.  It looks very much as
    27        though this is information which Harriet Lamb has had
    28        either from Steve Percy or from the employees themselves,
    29        rather than it being a matter of direct observation.
    30
    31   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The only thing which occurred to me -- I am
    32        sorry to interrupt again, but it may clear the air; where
    33        it takes me is entirely another matter -- but at the moment
    34        I am minded to think that evidence is admissible of crew
    35        saying: "We have heard that a store was completely closed
    36        down after a union has been started.  We have heard that
    37        employees are sacked if they engage in union activities",
    38        because, as I understand it -- and I hope I will be
    39        corrected if I am wrong -- what the Defendants wish to say
    40        at the end of the day is that there was so many rumours
    41        like this flying around that competent management could not
    42        have helped but be aware of them and, yet, they did nothing
    43        to quell them because it suited McDonald's purposes that
    44        their crew should think that they would come off worse if
    45        they took part in union activities.
    46
    47   MR. RAMPTON:  I understand that.  As your Lordship says, how far
    48        it takes your Lordship at the end of the day -----
    49
    50   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  At the moment, I have a completely open mind 
    51        on it.  I am not leaning one way or the other. 
    52 
    53   MR. RAMPTON:  No.
    54
    55   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  So, on that basis, is it not admissible?
    56
    57   MR. RAMPTON:  It is admissible -- well, I would rather not argue
    58        it in the context of this discussion, because it is not
    59        something that Harriet Lamb says, anyway; it is something
    60        which she reports that Mark Ryan said.

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