Day 011 - 12 Jul 94 - Page 66


     
     1        layer, is that correct?
              A.  I said the change in name was to clarify the fact that
     2        you have actually four types of halogen containing
              molecules; those which do not contain any fluorine at all,
     3        like carbon tetrachloride, which would not have been
              classed as a CFC but which is actually banned under the
     4        Montreal Protocol; the CFCs as they were originally
              conceived which were chemically inert in the lower
     5        atmosphere, which are things like CFC-11, CFC-12; the
              partially hyrdogenated, the HCFCs, and the HFCs, which are
     6        the other replacement chemicals which had been produced by
              some of the manufacturers which did not contain any
     7        chlorine at all.
 
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Was it a more precise label?
              A.  It was a more precise label.
     9
         MR. MORRIS:  Were you aware that in terms of public perception
    10        because of the name change it did not clarify the
              situation; there was massive confusion because of the name
    11        change?
              A.  I do not think it caused any more confusion; in fact
    12        you can no longer get your dry cleaning done with carbon
              tetrachloride.  I do not think it caused massive public
    13        confusion at all if people read what was being written
              about the actual effects of the chemicals.
    14
         Q.   Are you aware that industrialists used the name change --
    15        let me ask you, did industrialists in your experience
              lobby for this name change?
    16        A.  I have no knowledge about what the industrialists did
              or did not do in terms of lobbying for a name change.
    17
         Q.   But the Modern Plastics article seems to indicate ----
    18
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  He has given an answer about that.
    19
         MR. MORRIS:  Okay.  Are you aware that industry used the name
    20        change to, for example, label their products on occasions
              "ozone friendly", things like that, because they were
    21        using HCFCs?
              A.  I have no knowledge of the precise way in which the
    22        packaging industry has chosen to label their contents.
 
    23   Q.   So would scientists be concerned about the way industry
              labels its products?
    24        A.  Is this a general case about how -----
 
    25   Q.   Here we have a situation where you are very concerned
              about the ozone layer and preciseness and the people who 
    26        have a great amount of sway in society who are using these 
              products, these chemicals, are using something which 
    27        scientists agree to clarify the situation, to confuse the
              situation, is that not something which the scientific
    28        community would take note of or lobby industry to ----
 
    29   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  How does this help me reach a decision what
              a scientist thinks about the way industry labels its
    30        products generally?  I find no difficulty with the premise
              that in this day and age everyone should label everything

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