Day 185 - 07 Nov 95 - Page 57


     
     1        whether there was intimidation, that under 18-year-olds
     2        should not have a right to join a union.
     3
     4   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  But I mean -----
     5
     6   MR. MORRIS:  Which of course for the majority -----
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  As far as I know, he was asked, "Do you want
     9        unions", and he said "no", which he is perfectly entitled
    10        to say, and his lawyers advised him to take this point as
    11        well.
    12
    13   MR. MORRIS:  He signed that application.
    14
    15   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, of course he does.
    16
    17   MR. MORRIS:  Therefore, he has to take responsibility for it.
    18        If he did not agree with it, he should not have signed it.
    19
    20   MS. STEEL:  I think the point is that if he is so clearly
    21        against unions, why are the Plaintiffs bothering to contest
    22        this?  Why do they not just admit that their Company is
    23        hostile to trade unions, and we can all go home about three
    24        months earlier?
    25
    26   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You use the emotive words "hostile to trade
    27        unions", which immediately takes one off track.  All I was
    28        suggesting is that, given the choice, Mr. Ballantyne would
    29        rather not have a union involved.  That does not mean to
    30        say you are hostile to trade unions.  Maybe at the end of
    31        the day, when I have heard all the evidence, I will decide
    32        that this person or that person or this corporation or that
    33        corporation was hostile to trade unions.  But it does not
    34        automatically mean that you are hostile to a trade union
    35        if, given the choice, you decide to oppose them coming in.
    36
    37   MS. STEEL:  Consistently, every time they try and make any
    38        efforts to do so.
    39
    40   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is another matter.  We are talking about
    41        Mr. Ballantyne now.  I mean, one has to weigh it up when
    42        one has all the evidence.  You are going to call your
    43        evidence.  All I am suggesting is that it seems to me to be
    44        rather a technical point to look at an argument which
    45        lawyers have raised in what, after all, is a form of
    46        litigation, and say that is inconsistent with what someone
    47        speaking in person has said at a meeting.
    48
    49        There you are.  I have no doubt bored everyone in this
    50        court referring to 30 years' experience of litigation, but 
    51        I cannot put it out of my mind.  When matters get into the 
    52        hands of lawyers, they take every point which they think 
    53        might be perceived.  It is what they are paid to do.  I am
    54        not making the argument against you in relation to the
    55        overall merit.
    56
    57   MR. MORRIS:  No.  I think it is a very significant point.  But
    58        there we are.
    59
    60        (To the witness):  I suppose you do not know who instructed

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