Day 053 - 22 Nov 94 - Page 28


     
     1        that is what they meant all along, because otherwise, as we
     2        have set out in paragraph 6, the admission would be
     3        meaningless in the context of the Plaintiffs's proposed
     4        amendments.
     5
     6        Yesterday, Mr. Rampton did actually say something to the
     7        effect that neither sides' witnesses had dealt with a
     8        causal link between diet and heart disease.  That is, in
     9        fact, incorrect, as we pointed out, or as is shown by the
    10        examples we have given in this skeleton argument.  Both
    11        Professor Crawford and Mr. Cannon refer to a "causal
    12        association" or "link between" diet and heart disease.
    13
    14   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I have to say that if we had ever got to
    15        argument (which we did not, in fact), I would have wanted
    16        to ask Mr. Rampton whether what was being admitted was
    17        causal, association or relationship.
    18
    19   MR. RAMPTON:  Your Lordship will recall that there was never any
    20        dispute by me with any witness.  I do not know whether
    21        Ms. Steel is confusing what was said in court with what was
    22        in the witness statement.  It matters not at all, because
    23        at no stage have I sought to contest the Defendants'
    24        witnesses' statements to the effect that the link between
    25        diet and heart disease is a causal one.
    26
    27   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That may well have been your answer, but
    28        I think I would have asked it, nevertheless.
    29
    30   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes.  You would have got the answer which I gave
    31        yesterday and which I think, in fact, I have given on a
    32        previous occasion.
    33
    34   MR. MORRIS:  The obvious reason why Mr. Rampton did not do that
    35        is because the issue was whether there was an association
    36        on heart disease and cancer.  They clearly admitted an
    37        association; therefore, that was the end of that, in any
    38        case.
    39
    40   MS. STEEL:   I want to say, in the transcript of yesterday, it
    41        has Mr. Rampton as saying:  "Yes, it is difficult to get
    42        out of the habit, perhaps, for a member of the Bar or
    43        solicitors, of admitting that which is pleaded against you,
    44        rather than something which is not.  On the whole, the
    45        latter practice is discouraged.  It is only when I have got
    46        into this court and it has become clear, if it was not
    47        already, that the issue was nothing to do with whether some
    48        scientist thought this or other scientist thought that that
    49        in relation to association as opposed to causation, but it
    50        occurred to me -- it was sometime ago now, I do believe 
    51        I have mentioned it -- that it was necessary to say, 
    52        neither side having any evidence on the question, that the 
    53        causal nature of the relationship between diet and heart
    54        disease was accepted."
    55
    56        I took that to mean he was saying that there was no
    57        evidence in the statements of our witnesses of a causal
    58        relationship.
    59
    60   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No.  That was not my -- one way of looking at

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