Day 288 - 28 Oct 96 - Page 25


     
     1        take the world as it is and I really wonder whether the
     2        ordinary person does think that that is defamatory, whether
     3        he does think any the less of the company because it has
     4        large quantities, numbers of animals reared and slaughtered
     5        for its profits.
     6
     7        At the moment I am minded to think that is not defamatory
     8        and that is why I drew attention to the first sentence of
     9        your pleaded meaning.  You may say it is a poor comment on
    10        the world, that it does not reduce the reputation of the
    11        company in ordinary people's eyes, but since the majority
    12        of people happily go on eating meat I find it difficult at
    13        the moment to see that it is defamatory.  That is why
    14        I interrupted you.
    15
    16        Once you go on to say that, once the meaning is -- well,
    17        query whether animals are suffering and McDonald's are
    18        responsible for it.  If you say they are utterly
    19        indifferent, then that is, I would have thought,
    20        defamatory.  And if the sting was something different, that
    21        McDonald's condone or are responsible for cruel or inhumane
    22        practices in the rearing and slaughter of animals, then
    23        that, I would have thought, is defamatory.
    24
    25   MR. MORRIS:   I do not think people like cruelty to animals.
    26        Especially in this country, there is a long tradition of
    27        being opposed to it.  The fact that companies get away with
    28        it on a mass scale ----
    29
    30   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, no, you must listen to what I am saying.
    31        I have just said that that would be defamatory.
    32
    33   MR. MORRIS:   But it is cruel to raise animals, it is one
    34        thing -- it is cruel, for example, to kill an animal, it is
    35        cruel.  It is obvious, because nobody would allow that for
    36        an animal they had any relationship with.
    37
    38   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You can go along this line if you want but I
    39        am not at the moment finding it very helpful, because
    40        however many people there are who share your point of view,
    41        I think I would find it very difficult to say that on
    42        balance of probabilities, the putative ordinary reader of
    43        this would think less of McDonald's because they are
    44        responsible for the rearing and slaughter of a large number
    45        of animals.
    46
    47        I will repeat what I said a moment ago; you may deplore
    48        that that is the situation, but I think it probably is the
    49        situation.  What you have to have is something which is
    50        actually critical of McDonald's in their attitude.  I do 
    51        not think there is any problem about that.  That is where 
    52        I think torture comes in.  This leaflet clearly has a 
    53        general defamatory charge, it seems to me, and it is a
    54        question of whether you express it as utter indifference or
    55        condoning or being responsible for cruel, which is the word
    56        I used and then you adopted yourself, or inhumane
    57        practices.
    58
    59        And I do not think there is any need for you to have
    60        concern about this, but the moment you start saying "we can

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