Day 239 - 23 Apr 96 - Page 28


     
     1
     2        So, what you will often see in the gallery forest is a
     3        stepping up from scrub around the river, quickly going up
     4        to palm trees, quickly going up to large dicotyledonous
     5        trees as opposed to the monocotyledonous palm trees.
     6
     7   Q.   Is it much the same around Nova Xavantina to the east in
     8        Mato Grosso, or is it different?
     9        A.   Again, there we have got this great mixture and, as
    10        you see, a lot of it has already been labelled on this map
    11        as agricultural activities, "Atividades Agricolas".
    12
    13   Q.   I note there is a river that drains into the Amazon that
    14        goes through Nova Xavantina?
    15        A.  Yes, I see it.  I mean, that again will almost
    16        certainly have gallery forest along it.  Certainly the
    17        rivers I have seen in the cerrado or cerrado type areas,
    18        unless it has been cut down, have gallery forest, but it is
    19        often left because it is not that much of an impediment to
    20        the ranches and it is also often cut down.  I mean,
    21        sometimes it is left.  Sometimes it is cut down.
    22
    23   Q.   Right.  The area on the Cotter map, the little Cotter map,
    24        of tropical rainforest includes on your map, vegetation
    25        map, a whole variety of different vegetation types
    26        seemingly under the umbrella of tropical rainforest on the
    27        Cotter map.
    28
    29        Now, Mr. Cesca said in the witness box that, so far as he
    30        was concerned, the rainforest effectively stops, by
    31        McDonald's definition, where the BR230 or just a little bit
    32        south of the BR230 is?
    33        A.   Yes, 230, the Trans-Amazon Highway he was talking
    34        about.
    35
    36   Q.   You have seen the map that he did, have you not?
    37        A.  Yes, I have seen that map.  That is correct.
    38
    39   Q.   You have accepted the Cotter map as a valid definition of
    40        tropical rainforest.  Do you have any comment about
    41        Mr. Cesca's evidence?
    42        A.   Yes.
    43
    44   Q.   Have you read his statement?
    45        A.   I have read his statement ---
    46
    47   Q.   And his exhibits?
    48        A.  -- and I have read the transcripts of Mr. Cesca's
    49        evidence to the court.  I mean, I have to say that it was
    50        the longest list of childish misapprehensions I have come 
    51        across, I think, just about ever in terms of what goes on 
    52        in the Amazon, and I really think that any 12 year old who 
    53        had just read a GCSE textbook could have done rather
    54        better.  Quite how he manages to refute 100 years of
    55        botanical research to draw the line he drew beneath that
    56        and say that, under that, was forest which did not sustain
    57        life, I am afraid utterly defeats me.  I have been -- I
    58        have spent a good deal of time in the headwaters of the Rio
    59        Iriri which is a tributary of the Rio Xingu.  I will point
    60        to it on the map.  It is down here.  It comes off the Xingu

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