Day 113 - 03 Apr 95 - Page 53


     
     1        you identified, would that occur in all cases where ritual
     2        killing is used or in a percentage cases where ritual
     3        killing is used?
     4        A.  Ritual slaughter differs because we have two types: we
     5        Jewish slaughter and Muslim slaughter.  So that is one
     6        separation.  The point that they share in common is that
     7        neither uses a prestunning system.
     8
     9   Q.   Right.
    10        A.  It is not quite true that many Muslims now -- I say
    11        "many" -- in some Muslim countries they will actually
    12        accept a form of stunning.  Rather curiously, in some
    13        places if you stun at the same time you cut the throat, one
    14        authority will say, well, the stun has been done before the
    15        cut; and the ritual people will say, well, the cut was done
    16        before the stun.  So you have satisfied both on rather
    17        dodgy signs.
    18
    19   Q.   But whenever the cut is done before the stun, does that
    20        concern you?
    21        A.  Yes.  If could I just say, the Jewish method does
    22        require or did require capsizing the animal first.  That
    23        means that here you have the animal in a crush, you bring
    24        the sides together, and then you turn it upside-down one
    25        way or the another.  The animal is then lying back with its
    26        throat exposed.  Animals, cattle particularly, do not like
    27        that so they struggle like anything, possibly for a minute,
    28        desperately trying to get out and sometimes they do.  Then
    29        when you can get the conditions right water is applied
    30        according to the ritual to the neck; you get another bout
    31        of struggling, and then the chockit, that is the Jewish
    32        slaughterman, slits the throat.
    33
    34        Now that system, the Jews have in this country been
    35        persuaded and now in North America to do the cut upwards,
    36        but they use this cut.  So the Jewish authorities in this
    37        country argue that you cannot get sufficient force to bring
    38        this very big knife upwards.
    39
    40   Q.   I do not want to go into too much detail.
    41        A.  There is -----
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  All you are being asked is in what way is the
    44        Jewish or the Muslim method of slaughter, in so far as it
    45        is not in one of the Muslim countries which allows stunning
    46        first, is hard on the animal?
    47        A.  The main point is the effectiveness, if you relying
    48        entirely on the stunning and the killing, that the cut must
    49        be very effective to have a very rapid loss of blood.  The
    50        ventral cut into the chest is more effective than the cross 
    51        cut.  To that extent, the continuation of sentient is 
    52        longer in the ritual method.  This is why it is condemned. 
    53        The FAWC wanted it banned altogether, and so does the
    54        British Veterinary Association and so does the RSPCA.
    55
    56   MR. MORRIS:  That is the standard opinion, that ritual slaughter
    57        causes more suffering by the animal?
    58        A.  Yes.
    59
    60   Q.   I was going to suggest a break.

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