Day 102 - 13 Mar 95 - Page 50
1 limbs. It is not something that specifically causes us a
2 problem.
3
4 Q. How long does the process of taking the birds from the
5 arrival yard to actually being shackled take?
6 A. That is very quick. It takes about 10 minutes.
7
8 Q. You said that it is much better to have a shackle
9 specifically designed for the specific weight of the bird.
10 What exactly is much better about the specifically designed
11 shackles?
12 A. Well, the importance of the shackle is that it should
13 be designed for the particular weight of bird that is going
14 to be put on it. So, in other words, the width of the
15 shackle should relate to the size of the chicken's leg.
16
17 Q. Why is that?
18 A. Well, because obviously if the shackles are too small
19 to hang larger birds on, you would have to force the legs
20 on and that is not really a very nice thing to do.
21
22 Q. It would cause the birds pain?
23 A. It would cause the birds pain.
24
25 Q. That was the situation before you changed in 1993?
26 A. It is all a relative degree. It depends how small the
27 shackle is and how large the bird is, I think the degree
28 that we are talking about.
29
30 Q. But it was a problem prior to changing over?
31 A. Obviously, the idea was to improve our system so that
32 it was more suitable for the weight of the bird.
33
34 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I think -- I do not want to get away from the
35 point -- what is being suggested is that you, obviously,
36 want to improve the site, but what is being put to you,
37 fair and square, is before you had larger shackles for male
38 birds they were all one size. In other words, of the two
39 sizes you had after the change, they were all the smaller
40 size before, and this must have involved putting a lot of
41 male legs of larger circumference into shackles which were
42 too small, thereby causing pain to the cockerels. What do
43 you say about that?
44 A. I would say that you could infer that, but I do not
45 think that is strictly true. It is all a matter of degree
46 and there are certain degrees that we would not go to. So,
47 if you are forcing large birds on to small shackles,
48 I think that becomes unacceptable.
49
50 Q. But what happened before to the birds which it was thought
51 needed the larger shackles?
52 A. Well, they get -- I mean, they are put on the smaller
53 shackles. I mean, a shackle is something which is not --
54 I mean, it is wider at the top than it is at the bottom.
55 So, if you put a larger leg on, it hangs higher up in the
56 shackle than the smaller bird. So, it is all a matter of
57 degree. I would not accept that we force the legs on to
58 the shackle when it is of that inherent shape anyway.
59
60 MS. STEEL: If it was all OK, why was there any need to change?
