Day 181 - 01 Nov 95 - Page 18
1 paragraph this reference, because it is always the devil in
2 the detail: you have the right, but how do you exercise
3 it? It certainly was my experience; and that is why I am
4 here in the witness box as an expert witness in these
5 areas. It certainly was my experience firsthand in these
6 workplaces that exercising such rights was always the
7 problem because, willy-nilly, whether justified or not,
8 there would always be in the mind of employees the question
9 of their own job security. That is why I associate these
10 two issues. Job security is a problem.
11
12 Q. But hang on a moment, if somebody sought to exercise his
13 rights, whether in person or to somebody like yourself,
14 because he felt he had been victimised at work because of
15 trade union activities and was then sacked, lost his job,
16 he would in those circumstances also have an immediate
17 right of access to an industrial tribunal, would he not?
18 A. It depends if he was a trade union member or not or she
19 were a trade union member.
20
21 Q. No, no. Somebody who is dismissed on account of trade
22 union activity also qualifies for immediate relief to an
23 industrial tribunal, does not he or she?
24 A. It depends if he or she is a member of a trade union
25 and again I can only ---
26
27 Q. In that case Mr. Pearson -----
28 A. -- I can only -----
29
30 MS. STEEL: I think Mr. Rampton should let the witness finish
31 his answer.
32
33 THE WITNESS: I am trying to complete my answer in this manner:
34 I am here as an expert witness. In regard to that kind of
35 question, I can only speak, you know, on the basis of my
36 experience with the TGWU. Now, whatever the commitment and
37 personal feelings of an employee about their reason for
38 dismissal, they may claim it was because of their trade
39 union activities. A TGWU official entitled to make interim
40 relief applications, such as I was in the mid 80s, or the
41 late 80s, can only act on the basis of a bona fide member,
42 actually enlisted in the trade union.
43
44 So, this does restrict the ability of trade unions to
45 represent individuals who may well be aggrieved, but the
46 question I would be asked by -- would have been asked by
47 the union's legal department: When did they join up?
48 Prove they are a member. That is an important test. It is
49 one which my answer is really based on, the question of
50 actual union membership.
51
52 MR. RAMPTON: The answer to my question, I think, is probably
53 "yes", is it not? The right of law exists, whether or not
54 they are a member of a trade union, if they had been
55 victimised or dismissed on the grounds of trade union
56 activity. That is correct, is it not?
57 A. Yes.
58
59 Q. Yes, thank you. What you are telling us, I think, is
60 because of the way that people, human nature, operates, it
