Day 111 - 30 Mar 95 - Page 56
1 circulation around the carcasses in the trucks. It would
2 be dangerous to have loose carcasses hanging in the
3 trucks. That is why you have to make sure that the
4 temperatures are right before you arrive with the meat.
5
6 MR. MORRIS: So one of the problems with the octibins is that if
7 it chills it may just be the outside that chills?
8 A. Yes.
9
10 MR. JUSTICE BELL: As I understand it, what you are saying is,
11 I suppose, if you put the octibin in the chiller for long
12 enough the raw meat in the heart will chill too, but since
13 it is not well-aerated, what you are saying is it would
14 take a very long time?
15 A. Very long time and meanwhile you might have spoilage
16 already.
17
18 Q. If you just took the temperature of the meat towards the
19 outside, that would not give you an indication of what was
20 going on in the middle. As you said, you would, in any
21 event, get some spoilage, you might well get some
22 proliferation of bacteria, might include pathogens over the
23 period of time that meat in the middle is still at a
24 temperature where pathogens can proliferate?
25 A. That is right.
26
27 MR. MORRIS: Finally, on the subject of your dismissal, you have
28 put quite a bit in your statement which has been taken as
29 read in any event.
30
31 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, I have read that.
32
33 MR. MORRIS: Could you just summarise in very short terms what
34 the problem was and why you were sacked? Then I will ask
35 you a couple of questions about that.
36 A. Well, as far as I know, there was no indication of me
37 being dismissed until the afternoon of 29th April. It was
38 a Friday afternoon about 4 o'clock my employer, Robert
39 Jones, phoned me and said they could not, they felt that if
40 I stayed on they would lose their contract and they could
41 not possibly afford to do that, so they would let me go.
42 Those were his words, more or less.
43
44 After that, I asked him obviously: "Why is this?" and he
45 said that the Council has threatened to cancel their
46 contract unless I go and, obviously, I wanted to know what
47 it was, why they wanted me to go, and he said: "Because
48 you have dealt with sensitive subjects".
49
50 Q. Which were?
51 A. I asked immediately what are the sensitive subjects,
52 and he said: "The carcass temperatures and the BSE
53 certification". I do admit that those had been very
54 seriously discussed with the management of the plant,
55 between the management of the plant with me, that last week
56 of my employment. They were both very serious matters.
57 I had already made concessions to the management as far as
58 the carcass temperatures were concerned. We had made
59 concerted efforts actually to move carcasses to the sheep
60 chiller that at the moment was empty since we were not
