Day 116 - 26 Apr 95 - Page 36


     
     1
     2   Q.   Have you ever been taken to an industrial tribunal on the
     3        ground of, I think it is called, constructive dismissal for
     4        threatening to sack somebody for wanting to join on a
     5        union?
     6        A.  No.
     7
     8   Q.   It is further said by the Defendants -- my Lord, this is
     9        passage 98 -- "In or around January 1986 East Ham
    10        McDonald's concerned over the conditions in the store led
    11        to employees discussing joining the TGWU. One employee,
    12        Peter Sutcliffe" (I said we would come back to him) "joined
    13        but other employees, including A. Wilson were given the
    14        impression that they would be sacked and were too
    15        frightened to join."
    16
    17        Do you remember anything in East Ham in January 1986?
    18        A.  Yes.
    19
    20   Q.   Tell us about it?
    21        A.  Again I received a telephone call from the manager who
    22        said that he had been approached by some members of crew
    23        who wanted to join a trade union and would I go down and
    24        address them on the company's stand in regard to that.
    25
    26   Q.   Was the manager a Mr. David Sexton?
    27        A.  I cannot remember now.  I do remember he said that one
    28        of the people was that Sutcliffe, I did not know Sutcliffe,
    29        and that Sutcliffe's father was believed to be -----
    30
    31   Q.   You know that is hearsay.
    32        A.  Sorry, that is right.  I beg your pardon, my Lord.
    33
    34   Q.   Leave that out.  What actually happened?
    35        A.  I went there.  There was a meeting between 10 and 12
    36        crew people; again hardly representative of the work-force
    37        of that restaurant.  Again I addressed it in exactly the
    38        same way as I had been.  The meeting again was quite
    39        light-hearted.  I did not get the feeling that anyone there
    40        was really seriously considering joining a trade union.
    41        I cannot remember exactly what was said, but it was
    42        light-hearted and I left after about an hour.  No one made
    43        any real effort to convince me that they wanted to join a
    44        trade union.
    45
    46   Q.   When you went to Hackney the year before, were you
    47        accompanied by anybody?
    48        A.  Yes, Ron Lorrie who was the area security manager for
    49        that restaurant.
    50 
    51   Q.   Yes.  You at this stage are a senior person in McDonald's? 
    52        A.  Yes. 
    53
    54   Q.   You had with you on that occasion at least Mr. Ron Lorrie.
    55        Do you think it might be suggested you were going really
    56        heavy-handed into these two rather minor incidents?
    57        A.  No.  I think in putting Ron Lorrie in I may have misled
    58        people.  What in fact happened was that I mentioned to Ron
    59        Lorrie I was going down to Hackney, I had never been there
    60        before.  One of the difficulties in London is finding a

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