Day 036 - 13 Oct 94 - Page 30
1 most cases the two have an inverse relationship. That is
2 in general the case because animal products never contain
3 fibre and always contain fat, often containing a very
4 substantial amount of fat. Vegetable products always
5 contain fibre virtually (unless it has been removed), and
6 rarely contain much fat. One can defeat that by adding
7 one or the other, and modify the diet to something that is
8 unnatural.
9
10 Q. I am puzzled by this, Dr. Barnard. It sounded to me a bit
11 as though you were making the kind of assertion which on
12 that television programme, I think it was the lady who
13 conducted the interviews understood you to make. You are
14 not proposing that the person who eats meat does not eats
15 vegetables, are you?
16 A. Regrettably, every bite of meat is not a bite of
17 vegetables. So to the extent that calories are derived
18 from meat, there is no fibre in that portion of the diet.
19
20 Q. Every slice of cheese and butter and every bowl of milky
21 porridge that the Finns ate, apart perhaps from some fibre
22 in the porridge, was fibreless?
23 A. Yes, that is correct.
24
25 Q. But they supplemented their diet with large chunks of
26 rural rye bread, did they not?
27 A. In comparison with New York that did increase their
28 fibre intake, that is correct.
29
30 Q. Do you have a thing called All Bran in the United States?
31 A. Yes, we do.
32
33 Q. It is made by Kelloggs, I think. Can you suggest an
34 optimal gramme intake of fibre per day for a grown person?
35 A. Well, that is a source of controversy. Many
36 authorities would say, perhaps most, somewhere around the
37 order of 30 grammes a day, say would say 35. Denis
38 Burkitt says better you are at 40 or said I should say.
39 I would agree with Dr. Burkitt that somewhere along the
40 lines of 40 or perhaps even more would be better.
41
42 Q. Some quite reputable people have said 25 grammes a day is
43 quite sufficient.
44 A. That is not a figure I would agree with and not a
45 figure that Dr. Burkitt ever quoted. There are some
46 people who have alleged that that might be a useful
47 figure.
48
49 Q. There it is. Can we go forwards again in time to 1992?
50 I regret to say this is another piece of work by the
51 wicked maverick Dr. Walter Willett, but just all the same
52 I am going to ask you to look at it at tab 5 of this same
53 file. This, Dr. Barnard, I am certain is a study with
54 which you are well familiar?
55 A. Yes.
56
57 Q. This is his 8-Year Follow-up published in October, I think
58 it is, October 1992.
59
60 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes the eight years being between 1980 and
