Day 131 - 06 Jun 95 - Page 66


     
     1   Q.   Both of those may result in a burn.  A major cause of that
     2        may be that work is being done too quickly?
     3        A.  I do not see how work can be done too quickly.  The
     4        product still has to be cooked in a set period of time.
     5        I do not follow your drift on that, I am afraid.
     6
     7   Q.   OK.  Let us start again then.  If people work too fast ---
     8        A.  Yes.
     9
    10   Q.   -- in a kitchen environment with hot surfaces, splashing
    11        oil or whatever, then that would be a major concern to you,
    12        would it not, that people were working too fast?
    13        A.  I do not know how you would define "too fast".
    14
    15   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Why do you not put the question which was
    16        being put to Mr. Atherton and Mrs. Barnes (and to which
    17        they gave different answers) which was whether you would
    18        expect the faster people work and are expected to work, the
    19        greater the risk of accidents?
    20
    21   MR. MORRIS:  (Pause) I am sorry.  I thought you were asking the
    22        questions.
    23
    24   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Mr. Atherton said he thought that would be
    25        common sense, and Mrs. Barnes said she did not think that
    26        would follow at all.
    27        A.  It would not necessarily follow, my Lord.  It depends
    28        on the operation and so on.  I still do not see how you
    29        define what is "too fast", working under these
    30        circumstances, when you are conducting a set operation.
    31        You are running a grill; you are putting burgers on the
    32        grill; you are taking them off.  I do not really see where
    33        the problem comes.
    34
    35   MR. MORRIS:  People can only work up to a certain speed, can
    36        they not?
    37        A.  Yes.
    38
    39   Q.   Beyond which, they may be panicking, cutting corners, doing
    40        unsafe things; would you accept that?
    41        A.  The point is, there is no way it can be done.  You have
    42        a set piece of equipment and you have set things to cook on
    43        for set times, and you have people to man those pieces of
    44        equipment.  I do not really see how you begin to cut
    45        corners and do the things that you are alleging are done.
    46
    47   Q.   But do you accept the principle that part of safety concern
    48        of an expert like yourself will be that work scheduling
    49        should give people plenty of time to act carefully and
    50        surely and follow the procedures? 
    51        A.  Work ----- 
    52 
    53   Q.   Yes.  If they have to do it too fast, they may have to cut
    54        corners, take risks, et cetera.  That would be a standard
    55        theme of any safety expert, would it not, in this country?
    56        A.  Work scheduling must ensure that a job is done
    57        properly; and "properly" includes both quality, safety, and
    58        so on and so forth; it is an integral part of it.  As
    59        I say, when you are frying chips or making a burger, I do
    60        not see how you cut the time down.

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