Day 091 - 17 Feb 95 - Page 43


     
     1   MR. MORRIS:  After that the witness was asked: "But that is the
     2        view" -- it being carcinogenic -- "of the various bodies
     3        that have banned its use for animals in forming part of the
     4        human chain".  Answer:  "Yes".
     5
     6   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  This is a completely arid argument because if
     7        we were arguing about this in October of this year when
     8        Dr. Pattison was nowhere near the court, we might be
     9        reduced to having this argument.  Happily, he is in the
    10        witness box and can be asked any further questions and make
    11        quite clear what his evidence is.
    12
    13   MS. STEEL:  The thing is that he has already said that it is not
    14        his view it has been demonstrated as a residue in meat, but
    15        if he accepts that the World Health Organisation -----
    16
    17   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  If you will not ask him, I will.  Answer
    18        "Yes" or "No" and then we are quite clear.  Do you accept
    19        that it is carcinogenic?
    20        A.  I accept the studies that have been carried out by the
    21        various USDA authorities which have shown that the compound
    22        can be carcinogenic in a toxicity studies in rats in a
    23        laboratory and that is the basis for the claims of its
    24        carcinogenicity.  That is the reason why the question mark
    25        has been raised against the drug.
    26
    27        The drug itself has been used in the animal industry for 30
    28        years,  So, as far as I know, there is no evidence to prove
    29        that it has any carcinogenic effects as a result of getting
    30        into meat which then gets into the human food chain.
    31
    32   MS. STEEL:   Of course, you are not a -----
    33
    34   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause a moment, please.  Yes?
    35
    36   MS. STEEL:  You are not an expert on cancer though, are you?
    37        A.  No, I am expressing my own opinion.
    38
    39   MS. STEEL:  Can I just say that that is the reason why I really
    40        feel that if the witness accepts that was the reason for
    41        these bodies banning it, then whether or not he feels that
    42        is acceptable, if that is not his area of expertise, I do
    43        not understand how it is particularly relevant.
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You asked him a question and he gave an
    46        answer.  I do not know at the end of the day just what
    47        evidence I will have on this topic.  That is an argument
    48        you can put to me in due course, but I need to know what
    49        the witnesses are telling me.
    50 
    51        If you call a witness in due course who says something 
    52        different, I want to know what Dr. Pattison says about it. 
    53        If you do call such a witness, you may well have an
    54        argument that he or she is more of an expert and I shall
    55        attach more weight to their evidence.  But I do not know,
    56        I have not got to that stage yet.  I am keeping an open
    57        mind.  I need to know what this witness has said about a
    58        subject which you have put to him in cross-examination.
    59
    60   MS. STEEL:   Do you think that the World Health Organisation and

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