Day 105 - 16 Mar 95 - Page 55
1 step, and the law does not require microbiological tests to
2 be carried out either for TVCs, certainly not for
3 pathogens. It is not standard practice in the meat
4 industry to carry out a monitoring exercise for pathogens
5 because until recently under the development of
6 computerised analysis equipment it was not possible to
7 obtain a result for, perhaps, three days, sometimes longer,
8 and certainly Salmonella was, until recently, a longish
9 test.
10
11 So, any monitoring checks that are done again tell you on
12 occasion that there has been a Salmonella organism present
13 in the meat which is known in any case in a small incidence
14 of Salmonella in the animal herd, and that passes through
15 the food chain. The control measure to prevent it is to
16 cook the product correctly, so I would disagree with you
17 that it is irresponsible not to carry out checks for
18 pathogens.
19
20 Q. So spoilage organisms proliferate at an even a lower
21 temperature than four degrees?
22
23 MR. RAMPTON: May I enquire what spoilage organisms have to do
24 with this case?
25
26 MR. MORRIS: The witness brings it up, I brought it up, other
27 people have brought it up.
28
29 MR. RAMPTON: Only to distinguish the pathogens -----
30
31 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Which is why I asked the question which
32 I did, because I am only concerned with spoilage bacteria
33 in so far as it may help me in relation to pathogenic
34 bacteria, am I not? I am not concerned if spoilage
35 bacteria survive or multiply in the context of this case,
36 save in so far as it may be argued (which had not occurred
37 to me until a moment ago) that the more spoilage bacteria
38 you have the less pathogenic bacteria are likely to survive
39 so as to cause food poisoning.
40
41 I am just reminding myself of Mr. North (who I am really
42 treating as your expert in this area), if my recollection
43 is correct, I do not think he anywhere mentions TVCs or
44 TCCs and what figure, if any, might be a warning of
45 possible risk of subsequent food poisoning. I may be
46 wrong, but he does not appear to me to suggest from any of
47 the documents which were available to him, specifications
48 and so on, that the figures set out there are
49 unsatisfactory.
50
51 MR. MORRIS: Which figures?
52
53 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I assume that he could have been asked, if
54 necessary, or could have been shown the specifications
55 which had the McKey's and McDonald's TVC or TCC counts, or
56 could have asked for them.
57
58 MR. MORRIS: So far as I know, he did not see any documents.
59
60 MR. JUSTICE BELL: They have been in the bundles for a long
