Day 269 - 25 Jun 96 - Page 39


     
     1        and colon cancer, there is a positive association shown?
     2        A.  Yes.
     3
     4   Q.   In that table?
     5        A.   That is correct.
     6
     7   Q.   The question here is, perhaps, a different one.  Certainly,
     8        there has been an association shown by a number of studies
     9        of all kinds.  In particular we can agree population
    10        studies as far as breast is concerned, the promotion of
    11        tumours in animals?
    12        A.  Yes.
    13
    14   Q.   The question here is a different one.  With what certainty
    15        or confidence can one state that diet is at any rate a
    16        cause of most degenerative diseases?
    17        A.  I think --
    18
    19   Q.   Plainly this body did not feel confident to say so?
    20        A.   We are looking at this concept of cause.
    21
    22   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  Pause and collect your thoughts.
    23        A.  I was concerned about the lady having her drink of
    24        water.
    25
    26   MR. RAMPTON:  You tell us what you think about the cause?
    27        A.   The understanding of cancer, which I think I described
    28        in my evidence in-chief, is that the actual cause of cancer
    29        is probably due to some radiation damage on the genetic
    30        information, it can be due to peroxidative damage, it can
    31        be due to a spontaneous mistake in the replication process
    32        of the cell.  That can lead to either a lethal gene, in
    33        which case the cell will die, or it can lead, in some
    34        unfortunate circumstances, to a cell which divests itself
    35        of the recognition factors which enables the body to
    36        control it.  Under those circumstances, the cancer cell
    37        will begin its life.  It will replicate unchallenged and
    38        uncontrolled by the normal mechanisms for controlling cell
    39        growth within the body.  That really is when one looks at
    40        it at the molecular level, what we are talking about in
    41        terms of cause.
    42
    43        When we are looking at the epidemiological evidence and the
    44        experimental evidence, we are looking, not at breaking the
    45        DNA with the saturated fat high diet, what we are looking
    46        at is promoting the kind of biological factors that would
    47        encourage the growth and development of those tumour cells
    48        by suppressing the immune system and/or by encouraging the
    49        breaking up of the -- sorry, the cells that break away from
    50        the main body of the tumour to spread through the body and
    51        to deposit themselves elsewhere and metastasise.
    52
    53        So when you are looking at the molecular biological reason,
    54        it is quite clear that you could say that the cause of
    55        cancer is likely to be chemical or physical chemical in one
    56        form or another, and that may have nothing to do with the
    57        diet.  It may have a lot to do with the diet in the case of
    58        aflatoxin or aniline diets, but on the other hand the
    59        promotion of the cancer and its development to something
    60        which will actually kill someone, has got a lot to do with

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