Day 068 - 16 Dec 94 - Page 31
1 there is no definition of that?
2 A. There are no legal definitions for that. There are no
3 ecological foundations that are linked to a particular
4 country or organisation, such as the United Nations, that
5 they will agree on that. It is a term that, as far as
6 I remember, as far as I understand it, we created in
7 addition to what is currently accepted as rainforest.
8
9 Q. So what does the company mean by "recent", just roughly, in
10 terms of years? Are we talking about six months, or are we
11 talking about 50 years?
12 A. As I mentioned before, it is from the time that we
13 arrive or could potentially have an impact on any
14 rainforest in a country. We do not want to have, and we at
15 McDonald's do not have to have any impact ecologically on
16 the rainforest.
17
18 MR. MORRIS: Let me just give you an example, then. You are
19 established a country with a large amount rainforest in it.
20
21 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Stick to Costa Rica, as an example.
22
23 MR. MORRIS: All right -- as an example. Rainforest may still
24 be being cut down. Costa Rica is not necessarily the best
25 example. Take Brazil, for example; there is a continuous
26 cutting down of large areas of rainforest in Brazil for
27 various reasons. Let us take that as something that will
28 be proved later on in the case. You have got a large
29 operation in Brazil. So are you saying that under your
30 term "recent" in Brazil, seeing as you were established
31 there in, I do not know, 1970 or something, how does your
32 policy apply to Brazil; are you saying that if it is cut
33 down -- what does your policy mean in terms of "recent"?
34 A. You have asked questions, you have made statements, you
35 have reached conclusions. I do not understand your final
36 question. I have given an answer.
37
38 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Let us try to start again. It was a long
39 question. If you cannot answer this, please say so,
40 because I am very conscious of the fact that you did not
41 join McDonald's until 1991 and you have spoken about when
42 the first Costa Rican restaurant opened, which is many
43 years before you were there. But if you went into a
44 country now, for the first time, which had rainforest
45 areas, what would "recently deforested" mean? Would it
46 mean: "We would not buy cattle from areas which have had
47 rainforest trees chopped down from now on, or in the last
48 10 years or the last 20 years or the last one year", or is
49 there no specific definition?
50 A. Thank you for clarifying the question. If we go into a
51 country, a new country, that has rainforest, our normal
52 practice is to meet with the Minister of Agriculture, fly
53 over the area, and he will tell us: "This is the
54 rainforest." Let us say we start on this bench -- if I may
55 use it as example of a map of a particular country -- we go
56 on the right, it is considered rainforest by the definition
57 of "rainforest"; on the left, it is not. But people are
58 continuously deforesting areas. A year from now, and you
59 can see that in Brazil, that area that is rainforest,
60 ecologically rainforest, will go a little bit smaller. So
