Day 081 - 31 Jan 95 - Page 45
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2 MR. JUSTICE BELL: -- but there is no key to it?
3 A. There is no key.
4
5 MR. MORRIS: No, so you cannot really help us with that?
6 A. No, I am sorry.
7
8 Q. In that case we might as well just close that document
9 then, I think. If you look at No. 17 in that file?
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11 MR. JUSTICE BELL: The same file?
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13 MR. MORRIS: Yes, 17. It has the sterilizers not washed out.
14 Is the regular cleaning of sterilization equipment, sort
15 of, a fundamental part of hygiene?
16 A. I do not know what sort of sterilizers it is referring
17 to.
18
19 Q. It is the only mention of sterilizers on that form but, in
20 general, the washing out of sterilization equipment, would
21 you say that was a pretty fundamental hygiene requirement?
22 A. Well, sterilizers, if it is something like a knife
23 sterilizer, it is just a small container and that would be
24 cleaned out normally, but if it is a sterilizer,
25 presumably, anything in it is sterile. It would be a
26 contravention but not a serious one.
27
28 Q. I think we can close that folder. We just need a couple of
29 minutes to collect our thoughts.
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31 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I will just ask a question. I think it
32 relates to an answer you gave this morning. I see that the
33 footnote (6) on the PHLS Microbiology Digest (which we
34 have): "Provision has been made for the inclusion of
35 microbiological standards for foods in both the Food Safety
36 Act 1990 and in EC legislation. If mandatory standards are
37 introduced for some or all of the ready to eat foods
38 included in the Table, then an interpretation of the
39 results would become more straightforward, viz. samples
40 would either pass or fail the standards". Is that a
41 reflection of the fact that the test of legality now is fit
42 for human consumption or not, or some general term of that
43 nature?
44 A. Yes, it is.
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46 Q. We have not yet got absolutely objective standards of
47 colonies above or below such and such of various organisms?
48 A. Yes, sir. That is exactly so, yes. There are no
49 objective, clear cut standards of that type yet.
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51 MR. MORRIS: If we can get another file? It is the Defendants'
52 Supplementary list. It was the last -- it is actually a
53 new file. It is not one of our standard files. It was
54 served a couple of weeks ago. I do not know if it was
55 given a number because, as we have said, I think we ought
56 to have some coherent system for this.
57
58 MR. RAMPTON: Your Lordship has not got that yet. I have an
59 empty file which I can fill or I can pass your Lordship
60 that.
