Day 114 - 04 Apr 95 - Page 70


     
     1
     2   Q.   Do you agree?
     3        A.  Yes.
     4
     5   Q.   At the end of that little section there is, "It is
     6        desirable that the stun to stick interval be less than 30
     7        seconds" with that kind of percussion stunning?
     8        A.  Yes.
     9
    10   Q.   When you spoke of 30 seconds you were not thinking of a
    11        different kind of stunner, were you?
    12        A.  No.  I was influenced by this because I thought that if
    13        the minimum time is 30 seconds, to be safest one should
    14        adopt that standard.
    15
    16   Q.   Would you mind just reading "Assessing an effective stun",
    17        which runs down that final column?
    18        A.  Yes.
    19
    20   Q.   And then for two or three inches on the following page.
    21        Take your time.  There is no rush.
    22        A.  I have read down to "Safety Aspects".
    23
    24   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Until you come to "Safety Aspects".  Do you
    25        accept that, or is there anything you disagree with what
    26        Dr. Gregory apparently wrote there about assessing an
    27        effective stun?
    28        A.  Yes, I think that is acceptable, except that in factory
    29        conditions it is very often to make those judgments, for
    30        instance, waiting around to look at the possibility of
    31        rhythmic breathing and also the eye movements because if
    32        the eye movement -- if the eye response has disappeared,
    33        then the animal has been stunned; but if the eye movement
    34        is still present it may be stunned or it may not.
    35        Sometimes it is assumed that you should not need to use
    36        that because it is an unreliable test.  As I understand
    37        these things, and my observations, the animal must have
    38        lost its eye reflex flicking its eye to see if it blinks,
    39        and sometimes in the hustle and bustle of a slaughterhouse
    40        certainly not done with every animal that is stunned.  That
    41        is why I have my reservations that one should operate to
    42        the most expeditious progress to the next stage.  It seems
    43        to me that the difference here is that I am being asked to
    44        accept that two minutes would be acceptable.
    45
    46   Q.   No, I am not back on the two minutes.  I am purely asking
    47        you if you accept that as accurate?
    48        A.  If all of that could be seen to occur, then, yes, that
    49        would be a good stun.  But when I say "a good stun", I mean
    50        that I am still not satisfied that the animal might not, 
    51        after some minutes, if it were not to progress further, 
    52        recover to some extent. 
    53
    54   MR. RAMPTON:  Can I ask Dr. Long on what you base that judgment?
    55        A.  I base it mainly on what I know of human physiology and
    56        what I have discussed with physiologists generally.
    57
    58   Q.   It is not based on practical inspection of animals in the
    59        slaughterhouse recovering from what was, apparently, an
    60        effective stun?

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