Day 073 - 13 Jan 95 - Page 22


     
     1        countries.  I think it is very unfair of Mr. Rampton to
     2        make -----
     3
     4   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think you should go on.
     5
     6   MR. MORRIS:  I had certainly intended this would all be finished
     7        by mid-afternoon today because Mr. Hopkins has come to
     8        court about seven or eight times.  I do not think he wants
     9        to come back again.
    10
    11   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Carry on.  I have tried to put to you a point
    12        which concerns me because on one construction of what
    13        Mr. Hopkins has in his statement it could be that any paper
    14        products sourced from Canada must, therefore, be damaging
    15        to the environment, because you cannot set foot in a
    16        natural forest without damaging the environment.  An
    17        intermediate step would be that he has certain more
    18        aggressive criticisms of how some forests in Canada have
    19        been treated, but I do not know that they have anything
    20        whatsoever to do with McDonald's; for instance, Vancouver
    21        Island, and things like that.
    22
    23   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, may I intervene here for this reason that
    24        I am concerned:  There is a whole section of Mr. Hopkins'
    25        statement which deals with British Columbia and Vancouver
    26        Island, and indeed with Oregon.  It is quite clear on the
    27        evidence of Mr. David Kouchoukos and the geographical
    28        locations which he gave that McDonald's could not possibly
    29        have any association with the deforestation of the old
    30        forests of the Pacific North West.  Their nearest pulping
    31        plant is at Lewis, Idaho, which is 200 miles from Mount
    32        Rainier (?) in the state of Washington, the greatest
    33        range---
    34
    35   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Carry on.  I have your point.  I have your
    36        point about plantation forests generally.  Carry on with
    37        any specific references you want to make.  If there is
    38        anything extra I should have from Mr. Hopkins in
    39        elaboration of the specific references to McDonald's or the
    40        more general statements, such as any paper products sourced
    41        from Canada must therefore be damaging to the environment,
    42        deal with that so that I can see how, if at all, that
    43        comment is a criticism of McDonald's.
    44
    45   MR. MORRIS:  Mr. Hopkins, I want to look at reference No. 12
    46        which was produced by the Finnish Forests Industry
    47        Federation, "The Green Change".  I do not believe you have
    48        a copy there?
    49        A.  I do have some of it but not all of it, I think.
    50        I have chapter 5, "Biodiversity And Commercial Forests". 
    51 
    52   Q.   Yes.  In that case on page 18, chapter 5, there is a 
    53        section, "Green Values Come Forth".  Do you want to quote
    54        the relevant, any relevant part there?
    55        A.  Do you mind if I just swap the two copies because that
    56        one is already marked up and this one is not; it makes it
    57        easier.  I think the most important things here, it is
    58        slightly historical where it says:  "In the early years of
    59        plantation forestry, timber production was held to be the
    60        dominating goal in the forestry".  Then it deals with

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