Day 164 - 26 Sep 95 - Page 24


     
     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do you know when the computer program came
     2        in?
     3
     4   MR. RAMPTON:  No, I do not, but if it is important I will
     5        certainly find that out.  I should imagine it is fairly
     6        recent but I really do not know.
     7
     8   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.
     9
    10   MR. RAMPTON:  We can certainly find that out.
    11
    12   MS. STEEL:   Obviously, if that document that Mr. Rampton has
    13        just referred to is what he says, then we would expect that
    14        to be disclosed.  But, in addition to that, we believe that
    15        the program should be disclosed.  If Mr. Rampton is not
    16        happy about printing it out, we are quite happy to accept a
    17        disk ---
    18
    19   MR. RAMPTON:  No, we will not do that unless ordered.
    20
    21   MS. STEEL:  -- which I believe is disclosable.  I believe that
    22        disk are disclosable under the relevant order -- I cannot
    23        remember which order it is -- about discovery.
    24
    25   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You had better refer me to it.
    26
    27   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, again I can save your Lordship time.  In
    28        principle, computer databases constitute documents for the
    29        purpose of discovery.
    30
    31   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The database, yes, but, as I understand it,
    32        you say if we go to the computer now it has got the
    33        scheduling for the existing week and the previous week.
    34
    35   MR. RAMPTON:  That is right for the whole country.
    36
    37   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The program itself is, presumably, that which
    38        once you put in certain information actually makes the
    39        schedule.
    40
    41   MR. RAMPTON:  It is the thing that activates the computer to
    42        disgorge the information, or it makes the schedule, yes.
    43        There are two.
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I assumed that you key in information of one
    46        kind or another and what it will do, presumably, throws up
    47        on the screen and prints if you require, is a schedule.
    48        The program itself does all the hard work between someone
    49        keying in the information and the end result which is the
    50        schedule itself. 
    51 
    52   MR. RAMPTON:  That, I think, is ----- 
    53
    54   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  So instead of having lists of people and all
    55        sorts of scribbly permutations, the computer does it for
    56        you.  Is that your understanding?
    57
    58   MR. RAMPTON:  That is right.  That is my understanding, my Lord,
    59        and I do not believe in that sense -- it is a confusion
    60        between two uses of the word "program" -- the program is

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